Thoughts: Chart Ruler in the 12th House

Witchyone

Well-known member
My chart ruler is Venus, and I have Venus in Taurus in the 12th.

I definitely relate to many of the things you read about this placement. I have a fascination with prisons, asylums, places where people are hidden away. I've had some difficult and inappropriate love relationships. My sun is in first, but if I shine too brightly for too long, I feel the need to hide away alone. I'm an open book about most things, but I'm protective and quiet about the most important things. I can keep a secret for life.

Have you noticed anything in your research from a broader perspective? Do you think having the chart ruler in 12th changes the way it operates in a chart?
 

normak

Well-known member
Yes, the classification of the houses is slightly different. There are several groups and some houses belong to more than one group. And of the so-called evil houses (6, 8, 12) the 8th is the worst, the 12th is almost neutral and the 6th is somewhere in between. So it's basically the other way around.

Guess I'm *******, then. :tongue: My chart ruler (Mercury) is in the 8th. Also, my moon is in Scorpio in the 6th, conjunct Jupiter. I have an (ironically) love-hate relationship with Pluto.
 

Sweetness

Member
I came across this thread while looking for experiences of people with the ruler of their ascendant in the 12th house. Nice, I hope someone is still interested to continue the conversation.

I am a Cancer Sun (4) with Leo Ascendant (4). My sun is in the twelfth house as are my Mercury (26), South Node (27) and Mars (28) Respectively rulers of the 1st, 3d, 11th, 4th and 10th house)

I have been studying many 12th house charts, also of celebrities. You search for some 12th house placement and you will get charts with one or more planets and points there. Of many you can find personal information, so you have material to check things.

I have seen that the biggest difference in how easy or difficult these placements work out is the condition of these planets. Are they in a sign they feel good in, do they have aspects with well placed planets or points.

How is the overall strength of the planets there and which house(s) do they represent.

This makes the difference between how such more difficult placements will work out, Happy planets are more likely to generate happy results than planets that have to struggle to express themselves.

Many aspects to these planets are sources to get that inner energy out. Few aspects to these planets makes it more difficult, because they are unconscious energies and with a little help they express themselves easier.
The 12th house often tells about inner energy sources that the person is not aware of that he has them, but they build up inside them any way. So releasing them is important in some form or another. That is probably why quite a few artist in any form have 12h house placements. There is a lot of inside creative energy to express in many creative forms. The sign of the house and which house rulers are there will show how.

I new many heardships in my life. From a very young age.
My mom was in a poor condition when pregnant of me. Bad relationship with my father, no house, no food etc.
My parents were young, not ready, using drugs, making two more kids, fighting aggressive fights, having an open relationship that neither of them could handle. Father often absent, including in jail. And then my mother left us when I was 8.

I took over the mother role for my younger brother and sisters and felt like a failure because I couldn't be a good mom.
My father was addicted to gambling and was many nights away. I was always in panic when he left, sometimes screaming from my bedroom window to place don't leave us alone. I developed migraine in that time. There was no money for food, so cooking often was very sober... And I felt I failed. My father couldn't be made happy, my kids had nothing to eat, and I was helpless, couldn't change a thing.

I got burned when I was 2, had 3 times eye surgery before I was 3, fell in glass etc. Broke my front teeth at 11 and my parents did not take me to a dentist to repair it, so I reached puberty without front teeth...

Although I know also happiness in relationships I have a difficult time keeping them. Sometimes really tough relationships.

I can continue like this, but the 12th house can be a tough one.
I now depression very well, but know also the pearls that lay often underneath them. But I know that now I am 47 and know better that I have crisis sometimes in my way of growth.
It's easier to deal with it.

I meditate a lot. I have been visiting ashrams, also in India since I was 17.
I lived in India also for 6 years. The 12th house can also tell about living abroad. It really has many signification possibilities. In Vedic astrology it is indeed seen as more positive, because it is a house of self undoing. Anti materialistic. Undoing of ego, looking for a greater Oness. More aware of the collective. People with 12th house placements can often go very deep into themselves and also in unity.

The 12th house is an inner house. The house before the Ascendant. It's under the surFace, and you have to learn how to access it. I think.

I am also very creative, (Moon, ruler of 12th is in Sagittarius 5th house (28), conjunct Jupiter in Capricorn).

I think a 12th house with difficult positions will become easier with the years. As more and more of your unconscious will be made conscious and you learn how to work with these energies.

My South Node is also there. I feel that this makes it more difficult to let go of all this past. Cancer is already a stubborn keeper of memories and everything past. Leave victim feelings behind. Be accountable for myself.

Living in the present is an intense exercise for me, but I'm getting better. NLP and Mindfulness are helpful too.

I have to learn to make better choices, conscious choices. Choices that are not based in trauma. There is often trauma involved in 12th house placements. Therapy in whatever form can be very helpful, to have somebody watch this inside with you in this unconscious space.

I am a little stuck again. Where to go, what to do, things must change and then I get easily a paralized like feeling over me. This lasts a bit and then I can go again. This might be mars at his worse degree of the zodiac conjunct the south node in 12. No movement possible, no matter how I try.
Often some kind of illness will show up too. But it will always heal (pof, north node and Jupiter in 6 :) )

Meditation helps me really tremendously by the way, it really brings me peace.

I hope this will help your investigation. If you like to see my chart I will search how to upload it.

I wonder if you recognize this difference of how this house works depending on planetary dignities.

Thank you all for this thread!
 

greybeard

Well-known member
I came across this thread while looking for experiences of people with the ruler of ti8heir ascendant in the 12th house. Nice, I hope someone is still interested to continue the conversation.

I am a Cancer Sun (4) with Leo Ascendant (4). My sun is in the twelfth house as are my Mercury (26), South Node (27) and Mars (28) Respectively rulers of the 1st, 3d, 11th, 4th and 10th house)

I have been studying many 12th house charts, also of celebrities. You search for some 12th house placement and you will get charts with one or more planets and points there. Of many you can find personal information, so you have material to check things.

I have seen that the biggest difference in how easy or difficult these placements work out is the condition of these planets. Are they in a sign they feel good in, do they have aspects with well placed planets or points.

How is the overall strength of the planets there and which house(s) do they represent.

This makes the difference between how such more difficult placements will work out, Happy planets are more likely to generate happy results than planets that have to struggle to express themselves.

Many aspects to these planets are sources to get that inner energy out. Few aspects to these planets makes it more difficult, because they are unconscious energies and with a little help they express themselves easier.
The 12th house often tells about inner energy sources that the person is not aware of that he has them, but they build up inside them any way. So releasing them is important in some form or another. That is probably why quite a few artist in any form have 12h house placements. There is a lot of inside creative energy to express in many creative forms. The sign of the house and which house rulers are there will show how.

I new many heardships in my life. From a very young age.
My mom was in a poor condition when pregnant of me. Bad relationship with my father, no house, no food etc.
My parents were young, not ready, using drugs, making two more kids, fighting aggressive fights, having an open relationship that neither of them could handle. Father often absent, including in jail. And then my mother left us when I was 8.

I took over the mother role for my younger brother and sisters and felt like a failure because I couldn't be a good mom.
My father was addicted to gambling and was many nights away. I was always in panic when he left, sometimes screaming from my bedroom window to place don't leave us alone. I developed migraine in that time. There was no money for food, so cooking often was very sober... And I felt I failed. My father couldn't be made happy, my kids had nothing to eat, and I was helpless, couldn't change a thing.

I got burned when I was 2, had 3 times eye surgery before I was 3, fell in glass etc. Broke my front teeth at 11 and my parents did not take me to a dentist to repair it, so I reached puberty without front teeth...

Although I know also happiness in relationships I have a difficult time keeping them. Sometimes really tough relationships.

I can continue like this, but the 12th house can be a tough one.
I now depression very well, but know also the pearls that lay often underneath them. But I know that now I am 47 and know better that I have crisis sometimes in my way of growth.
It's easier to deal with it.

I meditate a lot. I have been visiting ashrams, also in India since I was 17.
I lived in India also for 6 years. The 12th house can also tell about living abroad. It really has many signification possibilities. In Vedic astrology it is indeed seen as more positive, because it is a house of self undoing. Anti materialistic. Undoing of ego, looking for a greater Oness. More aware of the collective. People with 12th house placements can often go very deep into themselves and also in unity.

The 12th house is an inner house. The house before the Ascendant. It's under the surFace, and you have to learn how to access it. I think.

I am also very creative, (Moon, ruler of 12th is in Sagittarius 5th house (28), conjunct Jupiter in Capricorn).

I think a 12th house with difficult positions will become easier with the years. As more and more of your unconscious will be made conscious and you learn how to work with these energies.

My South Node is also there. I feel that this makes it more difficult to let go of all this past. Cancer is already a stubborn keeper of memories and everything past. Leave victim feelings behind. Be accountable for myself.

Living in the present is an intense exercise for me, but I'm getting better. NLP and Mindfulness are helpful too.

I have to learn to make better choices, conscious choices. Choices that are not based in trauma. There is often trauma involved in 12th house placements. Therapy in whatever form can be very helpful, to have somebody watch this inside with you in this unconscious space.

I am a little stuck again. Where to go, what to do, things must change and then I get easily a paralized like feeling over me. This lasts a bit and then I can go again. This might be mars at his worse degree of the zodiac conjunct the south node in 12. No movement possible, no matter how I try.
Often some kind of illness will show up too. But it will always heal (pof, north node and Jupiter in 6 :) )

Meditation helps me really tremendously by the way, it really brings me peace.

I hope this will help your investigation. If you like to see my chart I will search how to upload it.

I wonder if you recognize this difference of how this house works depending on planetary dignities.

Thank you all for this thread!


Very nice, easily assimilated description of 12th house planets.

Hardship, loss, suffering bring liberation (death of the ego), strength, light.

Houses 4-8-12 are moksha houses.
 

Harmelia

Well-known member
Okay, I'll throw my two cents in the mix here. First of all, we all react to planetary energies differently, according to our conscious awareness. So, there potentially are as many experiences of Pluto in the 12th or the ruler of the chart in 12th as there are people. I personally have Pluto in the 12th in Leo, but I have a Virgo rising.



I think when a person's ASC has a traditional and modern ruler, I look at both. The traditional ruler will have a more personal message and the modern ruler, which will be a trans-personal planet, will tell more about the kinds of pressures or how one is being pressured to change.



In your case, you have the traditional and modern rulers squared - so they are in strong relationship and I'm guessing that all in all, they are related and you will do well to consider both.


I don't buy the whole demotion of Pluto thing. Scientists are free to categorize planets by certain criteria, but it does not change the effects of Pluto one way or the other. I feel the same way about the 13th constellation. Those stars haven't changed. Just because astronomers have decided to declare a 13th constellation changes nothing astrologically. The observed influences over the centuries are what they are.


The 12th house most certainly has a negative reputation, but let's not forget that all the signs, planets AND houses have both positive and negative possibilities. The 12th house can be a place of worship - of chosen solitary places like monasteries and loners in communion with nature - like Thoreau. Also, the 12th house is a space where we can let go of things we need to let go of - and explore something new. It is the place described in Chaos Theory. In order to change, there must be chaos - a place where everything is let go of and there is no "stuckness" to anything - an unstructured space - and space where things can disassemble and reassemble in a different order. So when Pluto is in the 12th, we are encouraged to "let go" of stuff. For some of us, it will be our beliefs. For others, it will be thinking processes or emotional fixations or who we think we are.



The 12th house is the house of illness because often when we haven't let go of what we need to let go of, we get sick. The lesson comes into the physical realm. It doesn't always have to be that way, but I do believe that physical illness can be a great teacher and some people's charts are very difficult. Sometimes, the illness brings about a change that is very difficult for the person to pull of otherwise. It has nothing to do with how good a person is or how educated or successful or anything. It just means that there's something difficult to learn and sometimes an illness helps learn it. Some people need to learn to grieve. The 12th house is a good place to learn that - to let go of what makes us sad.



The 12th house is a deep, spiritual space demanding change in order to be closer to one's spirit. You might say that about the 8th house too, but it's a little different. The 8th house demands an awareness of one's unconscious motivations and stuck places. Again, we can get sick if we resist growing and changing in awareness. That's why these are moksha houses. They demand spiritual awareness - something that isn't easy for us human beings.


I believe Pluto in the 12th house has been very good to me. I'm 68 years old and I have excellent health. It doesn't have to mean poor health and bad things. But I have been a deeply growing person my whole life. So, if you have Pluto in the 12th, you will grow in spiritual awareness, one way or another. If you are someone who has been ill, be certain to embrace it as a spiritual lesson and use the experience to grow and change (even if you don't have 12th house planets). The illness will then give you purpose and meaning.



All in all, I call the 12th house the "Letting Go House". Through the years I've repeatedly asked myself what am I being asked to let go of that is Leo in nature - the sign on my 12th cusp. Those answers have guided me. Even if you don't have a planet in the 12th, that's a good question to ask of the sign on your 12th cusp. What qualities of that sign should you let go of? When we let go of something, we then can embrace something new. That is symbolized by the cusp sign of the 1st house, or the ASC. You will continually embrace the positives of that sign as you let go of things of the 12th house sign. Look at where the rulers are of each of those signs and work the question in a similar way. What sign is the ruler in? What house? What needs letting go of and what needs embracing a new?


In your case, one of your ASC rulers is in the 12th. What you let go of there will improve your relationships and overall performance in society. Scorpio rising can error on being a bit fearful and reticent socially. What is Pluto in Libra in the 12th and Mars in Cancer in the 9th giving you?



That's all for now - more like three or four cents worth. :)
 
I’m Leo ascendant with Chart ruler, cancer sun in 12th. It’s a double win, chart ruler and sun in 12th house, plus Mercury and Venus in 12th.

In short about my life so far...I grew up without father; since early age I wanted to move to far foreign lands to be away from my country, as I never felt patriotic about it and couldn’t associate myself with the country...after university I packed my bags and I emigrated forever. I have to say that I’m somehow on one side proud and feeling good about myself but on other hand I’m shy, quite and introverted. Since childhood I have been fascinated by stars and could watch them for hours and now I’m studying astrology for hours. I do feel that i gain my power when I’m alone and I prefer to be behind closed doors and definitely have panick attack in big crowds...

I have Gemini rising with Sun, Merc (chart ruler), Mars (all in Aries) and Venus (Taurus) in 12th house. Interesting that our charts are similar in this way, even though I've got no Cancer or Leo in my chart. I also traveled abroad a lot when I was younger, though I do live here now, had no father as a young child (terrible relationship with stepfather later) ... not as shy but that'll be all the Aries and Gemini... I have a fascination with things that are foreign, complex, difficult to understand, but systematic - foreign languages, behavioral anthropology, politics and political systems, astrology (lol), etc. I do not like crowds and have never felt at home in a crowd.

My Mercury could be in the 11th depending on the house system, but I typically use the system that puts it in the 12th because it also puts my scorpio moon in the 6th and both of those things resonate with me better than Merc in 11 and moon in 5.
 

forest06007

New member
To find your chart ruler, you look to whatever planet rules your rising sign/ascendant. Then whatever house/zodiac sign that's in is your chart ruler.

My rising is Aquarius, with the ruling planet of Uranus.

Since my Uranus is in Capricorn (my 12th house) -- that is my chart ruler.
 

Rising12th

New member
I came across this thread while looking for experiences of people with the ruler of their ascendant in the 12th house. Nice, I hope someone is still interested to continue the conversation.
I am a Cancer Sun (4) with Leo Ascendant (4). My sun is in the twelfth house

I have just joined this group in order to respond to you Sweetness, as I too came across this thread whilst looking for information about what it means to have a Leo ascendant with Chart ruler Sun in 12th house Cancer.

I left my homeland at 19 and live abroad, and feel the grief of exile and loss of motherland. I have been an artist and have worked as a counsellor in asylums and homeless shelters (Cancer in 12th). I have now trained and work as a transpersonal therapist, which feels just right, really feeding my Cancer 12th Sun, as it also draws on my creativity. It feels like there are many parallells in what you write Sweetness, though your childhood hardship is hard to read, so severe - well done for getting to where you are now, to get through that. I too felt like I had to grow up early and support my siblings, my older brother was depressed and my younger disabled. I have always tried to find my spiritual path and am now looking to be able to use astrology (evolutionary) to serve the therapeutic work I do.

The themes of loss of self for spiritual purpose feel very true to me. I feel I have been grieving my whole life and I know that this serves my work with others.

I would love to hear more from others with the rising sign in 12th, particularly I am interested in how you see this working with the lunar nodal axis? My south node is exactly conjunct my Moon in Capricorn 5th, so there is an attachment to self expression on the south node, but also a necessity for self expression as my life path in this life (Leo rising) - any thoughts anyone?
 

Bunraku

Well-known member
Generally the ruler of the 1st sets the tone of the chart, and wherever the planet is is where the person tends to gravitate towards.

I knew many people with 12th house planets. At worst, when taken at face value, the person can look inert, but they might have an active hidden life. The house doesn’t stand for spirituality in the 9th house sense, but it does stand for hidden things, which can indicate occult tendencies as one manifestation.

Many of them I know were into the occult.
 

CapAquaPis

Well-known member
I have Juno in my 12th house conjunct my Ascendant in 17' 33" Cancer, thus my natal ruler should be the moon conjunct my Sun in Aquarius (20' Moon vs 26' Sun). Which is more prominent in my chart? The Moon other than the Sun? or Juno, an asteroid instead of a planet? Juno in 11' Cancer conjunct my part of Fortune in 14'.
 

Bunraku

Well-known member
I mean to be honest, people only associated negative things with the 12th house, but maybe in astrological lore that its like that all the time, but in real life the 12th house can have good and bad.

It depends on the ruler and the condition of the ruler.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I mean to be honest, people only associated negative things with the 12th house, but maybe in astrological lore that its like that all the time, but in real life the 12th house can have good and bad.



It depends on the ruler

and


the condition of the ruler.


In ancient astrology the method
for determining the ruler of the chart was much more complex :smile:

There are references to the MASTER OF THE NATIVITY in many
surviving astrological texts from Hellenistic astrology tradition,
but not many surviving discussions about how to calculate it.

The approach in this lecture is derived from chapter 30
of Porphyry's Introduction to the Tetrabiblos
which is itself derived from
a lost work of definitions by Antiochus of Athens.

How to calculate the predominator (epikratētōr)
the master of the nativity (oikodespotēs geneseōs)
the co-master or joint master of the nativity (sunoikodespotēs)
and the lord of the nativity (kurios).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo8gXjDEQmM&t=3470s



.
 

CapAquaPis

Well-known member
I doubt George W Bush goes on about loss, hard labor, self-undoing, when he’s a happy old retired painter after living a lifetime of wealth and privilege. Then again, not everyone has his privilege or generational wealth.

Trump is another example of obtainment of a great deal of privilege, but the way he is...sigh, this belongs to another thread. :annoyed:

On my 12th house and my chart ruler the Moon in 8th, is it a stronger malefic when 2 houses linked to negative life events are together: 8th-death and 12th-illness.
 

mxranda

New member
Okay, I'll throw my two cents in the mix here. First of all, we all react to planetary energies differently, according to our conscious awareness. So, there potentially are as many experiences of Pluto in the 12th or the ruler of the chart in 12th as there are people. I personally have Pluto in the 12th in Leo, but I have a Virgo rising.



I think when a person's ASC has a traditional and modern ruler, I look at both. The traditional ruler will have a more personal message and the modern ruler, which will be a trans-personal planet, will tell more about the kinds of pressures or how one is being pressured to change.



In your case, you have the traditional and modern rulers squared - so they are in strong relationship and I'm guessing that all in all, they are related and you will do well to consider both.


I don't buy the whole demotion of Pluto thing. Scientists are free to categorize planets by certain criteria, but it does not change the effects of Pluto one way or the other. I feel the same way about the 13th constellation. Those stars haven't changed. Just because astronomers have decided to declare a 13th constellation changes nothing astrologically. The observed influences over the centuries are what they are.


The 12th house most certainly has a negative reputation, but let's not forget that all the signs, planets AND houses have both positive and negative possibilities. The 12th house can be a place of worship - of chosen solitary places like monasteries and loners in communion with nature - like Thoreau. Also, the 12th house is a space where we can let go of things we need to let go of - and explore something new. It is the place described in Chaos Theory. In order to change, there must be chaos - a place where everything is let go of and there is no "stuckness" to anything - an unstructured space - and space where things can disassemble and reassemble in a different order. So when Pluto is in the 12th, we are encouraged to "let go" of stuff. For some of us, it will be our beliefs. For others, it will be thinking processes or emotional fixations or who we think we are.



The 12th house is the house of illness because often when we haven't let go of what we need to let go of, we get sick. The lesson comes into the physical realm. It doesn't always have to be that way, but I do believe that physical illness can be a great teacher and some people's charts are very difficult. Sometimes, the illness brings about a change that is very difficult for the person to pull of otherwise. It has nothing to do with how good a person is or how educated or successful or anything. It just means that there's something difficult to learn and sometimes an illness helps learn it. Some people need to learn to grieve. The 12th house is a good place to learn that - to let go of what makes us sad.



The 12th house is a deep, spiritual space demanding change in order to be closer to one's spirit. You might say that about the 8th house too, but it's a little different. The 8th house demands an awareness of one's unconscious motivations and stuck places. Again, we can get sick if we resist growing and changing in awareness. That's why these are moksha houses. They demand spiritual awareness - something that isn't easy for us human beings.


I believe Pluto in the 12th house has been very good to me. I'm 68 years old and I have excellent health. It doesn't have to mean poor health and bad things. But I have been a deeply growing person my whole life. So, if you have Pluto in the 12th, you will grow in spiritual awareness, one way or another. If you are someone who has been ill, be certain to embrace it as a spiritual lesson and use the experience to grow and change (even if you don't have 12th house planets). The illness will then give you purpose and meaning.



All in all, I call the 12th house the "Letting Go House". Through the years I've repeatedly asked myself what am I being asked to let go of that is Leo in nature - the sign on my 12th cusp. Those answers have guided me. Even if you don't have a planet in the 12th, that's a good question to ask of the sign on your 12th cusp. What qualities of that sign should you let go of? When we let go of something, we then can embrace something new. That is symbolized by the cusp sign of the 1st house, or the ASC. You will continually embrace the positives of that sign as you let go of things of the 12th house sign. Look at where the rulers are of each of those signs and work the question in a similar way. What sign is the ruler in? What house? What needs letting go of and what needs embracing a new?


In your case, one of your ASC rulers is in the 12th. What you let go of there will improve your relationships and overall performance in society. Scorpio rising can error on being a bit fearful and reticent socially. What is Pluto in Libra in the 12th and Mars in Cancer in the 9th giving you?



That's all for now - more like three or four cents worth. :)
I really appreciated this, thank you for taking the time to share all of these wonderful insights. I’m also a Virgo rising and I’ve only been learning for 10 years, so I do still feel like a beginner. With that said, I’m wondering how close your Pluto is to your ascendant? I feel like if it were closer to your ascendant, that could play a role with you identifying heavily with letting go. I absolutely agree with the importance of letting go- I’m just not sure I would ascribe it to the 12th house as quickly as I would ascribe it to Pluto.



When I look at my 12th house for instance, I have my ascendant ruler Mercury 15° and Chiron 10°. Mercury is opposing Saturn 16° Aquarius, and squaring Pluto 20° Scorpio(conjunct IC 24° Scorp) and Mars 20° Taurus. So when looking at my 12th house, and at my life, it’s hard for me to call it “The Letting Go” house.



If my Pluto were there, I’m sure I’d agree. But I always ask myself what Scorpio traits I need to let go of, and with it right near my IC- what ancestral wounds I need to transform.



As for the 12th house- with my Chiron and Mercury there in Leo, I need to actually learn how to embrace the Leo traits, to gain the confidence to heal through talking about my own challenges, and the ugly hidden stuff that people don’t like to acknowledge or talk about. I need to bring those forward and model how we MUST talk about them to heal from the pain they cause, and how when we do that, we are healing our subconscious, and creating more space for spiritual fulfillment.

I just wanted to share this because I think you made a great point of everyone reacting to planetary energies differently, so I wanted to share my experience as well especially with a fellow Virgo rising :)
 

LostNOzarks

Well-known member
What do you mean by a chart ruler? The ruler of the ascendant?

If you have a particular chart you're talking about, it's better to post it. It's important because, for example, the chart ruler you're talking about can change its house location with another house system.
That is good reminder to me of something I learned many moons ago which was that the most disposited planet in the chart was the chart ruler. I hope I'm saying that right.
 

Vulcan

Active member
Philosophically speaking if the chart ruler can be in the 12th just like that, then roughly about 1 in 12 have a miserable life full of losses (or alternatively in the modernist vein are very secretive and retiring). But if the chart ruler is also conditioned by the house it's placed in, and if the 12th is regarded as a weak for house for determining the chart ruler then it becomes a rare occurence. To me it seems in real life most people are average (body and career being top priorities for most), and there are some extreme outliers.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Philosophically speaking if the chart ruler can be in the 12th just like that, then roughly about 1 in 12 have a miserable life full of losses
that's "...one-size-fits-all cookbook school of fairground astrology..." :)
"...a miserable life full of losses.." describes billions worldwide experiencing extreme poverty, homelessness,

(or alternatively in the modernist vein are very secretive and retiring).
clearly
secretive/retiring individuals do not all necessarily have chart ruler in 12th
But if the chart ruler is also conditioned by the house it's placed in, and if the 12th is regarded as a weak for house for determining the chart ruler then it becomes a rare occurence. To me it seems in real life most people are average (body and career being top priorities for most), and there are some extreme outliers.
 

geminimercury

Well-known member
This is an old thread but I want to comment as it related, my Ascendant ruler also in 12th house.

12th house is a CADENT house and the house of bad spirit and self undoing, that ascendant of mine does NOT qualify to be the Master of Nativity in my chart. If there anything it be my Sun in 9th where my Sun in it Joy house.

Btw, I'm Cancer Rising, which rule by the moon, my Moon is Gemini (meaning the ruler of my moon is Mercury), and Mercury dispose that Ascendant of mine real quick right away in the dispositor tree.

My Gemini Moon in 12th, meaning BOTH the moon and the ruler of my Ascendant are in 12th house, bad house, the worst of the cadent houses. I have ZERO, repeated, ZERO planet in Cancer. Not even North Node, Fortune, Vertex, nothing. My Moon is in Gemini (which is nothing related to the sign Cancer).

My Pisces Sun and Mercury in 9th. I have a Scorpio Stellium in 5th where my Scorpio Mars is the rulership and the host of that house. My Venus in 8th.

If there anything then my Sun in 9th is my Predominator.

Too bad Solar Flare is gone, but I 100% fully agree with him, my Ascendant is just part of me, it marked my 1st house ruler. It has NO rights to rule my whole chart, as I have ZERO planet in Cancer, and that so called Ascendant ruler "the Moon" is in 12th house, so it further has NO rights to rule my whole chart.

If it was a domicile Cancer Moon, yeah, I give it, but my Moon is in Gemini. So Mercury has my moon, Gemini sign has nothing to do with Cancer. So don't get it twisted, just because you Cancer Asc that does not automatically make your moon cancer, there people have a moon sign that 90 degree different from their ascendant sign, me, I'm Gemini Moon here.
 

geminimercury

Well-known member
Lol 12th house is NOT a gift nor spiritual (don't insult the 9th house). 12th house is a gift, and the most special house? LOL LOL. Pop modern astrology mann. But I digress, as this is a "modern" astrology sub forum.

Done leave my comment on the topic, and will exit.

eta actually wait, this is not modern sub isn't it, it a Natal astrology sub.
 
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