What would it mean to have natal Lilith at the anaretic degree (29) in a mutable sign

It's said those planets are in an urge to express themselves. In a mutable sign it is even more so since it is bordering on cardinal. The sign I have in mind is Gemini but it would equally apply to the other three mutable signs (Pisces, Sag, Virgo).

How would you describe the urgency of Lilith here? What might she be so eager to do this lifetime?

Thank you.

I don't understand why people use lilith in their birth chart? what her role

That's what I'm trying to find out as well. But it lures me in in a sense so I try to explore it more.

Adding hypothetical objects to astrology only confuses me as there is enough there already to grapple with

Ive quickly googled what Lillith is supposed to represent and wouldnt have a clue how to go about interpreting it let alone what being at a certain degree or triplicity would mean

*emma* said:

Adding hypothetical objects to astrology only confuses me as there is enough there already to grapple with

Ive quickly googled what Lillith is supposed to represent and wouldnt have a clue how to go about interpreting it let alone what being at a certain degree or triplicity would mean

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Yeah me too I don't like reading asteroids and use them in my chart they confuses and distract me from the real aspect in my chart

I too generally give little consideration to the asteroids and the hypothetical planets; nonetheless I give quite a bit of credit to the influence of Lilith (dark moon lilith), simply because I have seen its baneful influences too often, in many different types of charts: I consider it a secondary although "definite" influence, and I compare it to a "mini-Dragon's Tail" (South Node) in its general influences; an informative exposition of Lilith is to be found in Wilson-Ludlam's "Lilith Insight" (available from several internet vendors including astroamerica.com)

dr. farr said:

I too generally give little consideration to the asteroids and the hypothetical planets; nonetheless I give quite a bit of credit to the influence of Lilith (dark moon lilith), simply because I have seen its baneful influences too often, in many different types of charts:

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I've been studying 'the everyday' effects of astrological point MEAN Black(dark) Moon called Lilith for over a decade and can say the same.

I don't know if zona967 is referring to the astrological point between Earth and Moon, or the asteroid Lilth of which I have absolutely no knowledge because you can't take just one of thousands of them and give it preference above others. Or can you ?

dr. farr said:

I too generally give little consideration to the asteroids and the hypothetical planets; nonetheless I give quite a bit of credit to the influence of Lilith (dark moon lilith), simply because I have seen its baneful influences too often, in many different types of charts: I consider it a secondary although "definite" influence, and I compare it to a "mini-Dragon's Tail" (South Node) in its general influences; an informative exposition of Lilith is to be found in Wilson-Ludlam's "Lilith Insight" (available from several internet vendors including astroamerica.com)

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Dr. farr, can you confirm that you're speaking of the waldemath dark moon (object h58 on astro.com), or are you speaking of the lunar apogee usually deemed "black moon" Lilith, the one that's listed in the Additional Objects list on astro.com? If the latter, have you found more accuracy in the 'mean' or 'true' calculation for it? I haven't used the 'interpolated apogee' calculation much, but it seems to differ a bit from the others as well.

For others reading, 'h13' will generate the 'true' lunar apogee and 'h21' will generate the interpolated lunar apogee. And the difference between the 'mean' and 'true' calculations for the lunar apogee can differ by as much as 30 degrees.

I have no experience with, and have not made a study of the lunar apogee "black moon Lilith" (Frisiangal is perhaps our resident AW student/researcher regarding this!) nor of the waldemath dark moon (object h58 on astro.com) I am referring to object 1181 on astro.com, the asteroid Lilith, its glyph being the crescent moon on the astro.com charts. In my posting, above, I have referred to Lilith (asteroid Lilith) as "dark moon", because when I learned about (asteroid) Lilith (back in the 1960's) that was pretty much the only "Lilith" which had been investigated up to that time, and many (during that period of time) used the term "dark moon" generically in reference to (asteroid) Lilith-and I have kept that habit, which today (with waldemath Lilith investigations and considerations developed over the past few decades) can be a misleading description for asteroid Lilith (I'll try to be more careful in my use of adjectives regarding asteroid Lilith!)

dr. farr said:

I have no experience with, and have not made a study of the lunar apogee "black moon Lilith" (Frisiangal is perhaps our resident AW expert regarding this!)

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Thank you, but please exchange highlighted word for 'student observer'.

zona967 said:

It's said those planets are in an urge to express themselves. In a mutable sign it is even more so since it is bordering on cardinal. The sign I have in mind is Gemini but it would equally apply to the other three mutable signs (Pisces, Sag, Virgo).

How would you describe the urgency of Lilith here? What might she be so eager to do this lifetime?

Thank you.

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is this being 'lilith ' being hit by a transit of jupiter.

I think (depending on natal position) it gets activated by transits.

lilith in gemini being transited by jupiter could indeed have an - 'urge to express'

Hi, I also have lilith at 29 degrees. Mine is in libra (the astro.com default lilith). We have to look at sign and house. But I do feel an urgency to experience sexuality and relationship. Althought these two are always a source of conflict for me.
I also have the need to have truht, honesty , equality and fairness in my relationships. I think i really fight for these. I put a lot of energy into it.
I feel i don-t have the energy and patient for much in my life, but i could live for relationships and sez. These ones take a lot of my time. I have lilith conjunct mars in libra in Qm11th house.

Hello -

I just read one of Fries' posts regarding Lilith & children. I found it interesting - something I hadn't heard before -

For past 27 years - from pregnancy and through my son's life (he's 27 now) - I have had horrible morbid fears of him being taken by death. I have often had to look myself in the heart and ask, 'why are you fixated on this'? Is it fear, intuition or some horribly misplaced fantasmagorical thought process?

I have Lilith 29 degrees Cancer conjunct my Asc from 12th house. It has 2 minor aspects - semi-squares (?).

I figure that since post has been dormant, it's okay to jump in and ask anew - appreciate any thoughts regarding Lilith in my chart.

Hi,
An anaretic degree seems to be connected to 'difficult expression', yet the school of thought through which I was taught expressed the anaretic degree as 'the graduation class'; a culmination of expression of the sign for the planet/point in it.

The MEAN and TRUE Black Moon Liliths are astrological points. They are not outwardly physical of nature as a planet is. They are felt more as a deep inner feeling, a natural talent, attempting to find expression in the outer world. They are strongly associated with 'that which is physically non-existent', as represented by the longings, yearning, cravings of the sign in which they are placed, that can become the created inner images of how circumstances could, should, would be.....'if only'. MEAN BML seems to correspond to those images of childhood experiences that can have a strong bearing upon how one lives one's further life...positively or negatively speaking. TRUE BML (H13 in astro. com. charts) appears to correspond to the wisdom of age through which these same images are experienced through their true perspective.
I have not studied the asteroid called Lilith.

MEAN BML can 'disconnect' and/or turn from the feelings of the sign it is in
when it experiences situations, or itself, as 'unacceptable'. (Self) denial of a natural trait can occur until the occasion arises when it is necessary to express it.

Libra is associated with the essence of harmony; that which says that 'all men are created equal'. The MEAN/TRUE Lilith can undergo experiences that show how true or false this Libra feeling within it is.

Natal BML in Cancer appears to be most concerned with the natural inner
feeling of 'emotional security through caring and belonging'. Yet it can act and turn away from showing any feeling at all.; an attitude of 'I don't need anybody'. Issues with the biological mother and/or parent are often noticeable and can be a reason for doing so.
Instinct seems very strong and it is in this position that BML finds associations with that which would appear to be extinct, yet isn't. The family/tribal rites, etc. A 12th house MEAN BML in Cancer could (dis)connect with ancestral influences.

I don't know to what you refer as MEAN BML in any semi-square aspect, Kitchy. I don't see them. Astrologers who do not use 'out of sign' aspects would say that MEAN BML is unaspected. If out of sign aspects are permissable, and with a maximum 6 degree orb I personally use, there is a Sun-BML opposition, Moon sextile BML, and a Chiron quincunx BML.

Your strong feelings towards your son are only natural because you care so much. The mother instinct is there in you; you've graduated into expressing feeling, even if it is hidden. Yet if you see much in him that acts as created images of your own life experiences, this could play a role in your 'morbid concern' for him.
Natal Saturn would be too wide for an opposition with MEAN BML. Yet it IS in its own sign; the orb could possibly be extended. You also have a Saturn-135-Pluto. Reality versus imagery?

I use the word 'seem' because BML produces the 'appears to be' that can take on a disguise, 'the presence felt' of what truly is....or should be.

Any feedback (also via PM if preferable) for study purposes is welcome.

theV said:

I don't understand why people use lilith in their birth chart? what her role

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My experience is many people do not find Lilith seems to be significant of functioning at all. My experience from
comments on this thread also is it isn't significant unless strongy aspected, so, people wonder what it means. Nothing at all to speak of for many people.

It is powerfully aspected in my chart and has dominated my life in an otherwise extremely powerful chart with many other extreme factors.

Also if it is strongly aspected Lilith can well become an overwhelming powerful factor.

My little brother got a lethal aggressive brain cancer. In his last few weeks of life I relocated to his home to care for him after he became paralyzed. He would not allow any contact at all during the prior 11 years. During those weeks we talked about his chart for the first time ever. He agreed that the way Lilith "withheld" from his experience the factors described below.

His natal chart had a Sun Moon Saturn grand trine. He was the sweetest person you could imagine, everyone loved him always always due to his sweet stable good emotional nature. He could consume tons of drugs and remain a sweet even keeled person at all times. Stable, sweet.

He also had Lilith conjoin sun and never subjectively was able to appreciate his emotional sweetness and apparently never experienced it that way. That is Lilith while powerfully expressed exactly conjunct Sun, it took away that potentially lovely experience.