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Unread 07-13-2019, 10:08 PM
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Re: The natal chart all interpretations welcome

Originally Posted by Blaze View Post

I dunno. The only astrologer I know who uses the outer's doesn't give them rulers.

Personally, again, I dunno.
Haven't studied anything related to the outers.

Any book recommendations?

opinions of one of our moderators tsmall

may be of interest

Originally Posted by tsmall View Post

In my opinion only, for the same reason that so many astrologers have chosen to disregard classical astrology. Modern astrology was basically born in the 20th century and bears little resemblance to traditional astrology. There are those who have no wish to understand astrology any further than the reliance on myth for signification; those who feel that anything old must surely be outdated; and those who are just to lazy to study the classical underpinnings of astrology.

I'm not suggesting they have no meaning. I would suggest that the reason you see traditional astrologers, especially horarists using them is because those astrologers want to be accepted by a broader base.

It does remain that there is no way to shoe-horn or retrofit the outer planets into the dignity scheme, for example, because it exists the way it does for a reason; that reasoning gives the foundations of astrology--and not just for the significations of the planets. Aspect meanings as well as the significations of the houses also rely on the seven traditional planets. They are intertwined in a way that looses signification if broken apart.

If we are to count Pluto as an astrological planet, then is it nocturnal or diurnal? What are it's terms? Decans? Is it masculine or feminine? Where is it exalted? Where does it fall? In which degree?
Originally Posted by tsmall View Post

especially as much of Pluto's signification
as well as that of the rest of the trans-Saturnian planets
comes from mythology
(which is not the foundation of the significations of the planets in classical astrology)
pure conjucture or speculation
or is stolen outright from the seven traditional planets.
dr. farr has studied astrology for more than fifty years
mentions as follows:
Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post

no, I do NOT consider Neptune, Uranus or Pluto to be dispositors ("rulers") of any sign
-but yes I do consider them to be affinitive to certain signs and dissonant with other signs:
for me, if X planet is in, say, Aquarius, then I consider SATURN to be dispositor of that planet,
PLUS I consider Uranus to have a relationship to that planet as well
(because of the affinity of Uranus with Aquarius),
but NOT at the same level (the level of dispositorship) that Saturn has.

Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi View Post

To explain further, there are a few philosophical issues that arise when using the outer planets. It's true that many more classically oriented astrologers use them, but they tend to regard them as fainter fixed stars, so their importance and abilities tend to be scaled back or ignored unless they are on an angle or conjunct some important planet.

Another issue with the outer planets in general is that they lack much of the tools that the classical planets have. This isn't just referring to dignities (though that is a large part of it), but they also lack nature, sect, gender, years, winds, orbs, signatures, etc. This may all seem superfluous or unnecessary, but its significance really cannot be overstated. Without these associations, the outer planets are essentially blank orbs without instruction or meaning.

Finally, there is the issue with the meanings contemporary astrologers have given to them.

Mostly they either

1) don't make sense within their own context
or 2) are already taken by another planet.

About the first, a lot of the meanings of the planets have been assigned to them based on mythological interpretations or perceived mundane events happening around the time of their discovery. A lot of the mythological meanings are cherry picked and often nonsensical, like Uranus ruling rebellion, but in the myth Ouranos is the tyrannical dictator, not the freedom fighter. The mundane events are definitely cherry picked as there are many important events happening around the world at any given time. Pluto was discovered in 1930 and has taken on an association with nuclear force, but when I hear 1930s I think Great Depression and I've never heard anyone associate Pluto with financial ruination.

About the second, each of the outer planets have significations that are more or less plucked from the classical planets. Uranus's reported instability and recklessness can be found in Mercury and Mars. Neptune's illusions and mysticism can be found in the Moon. Pluto's transformation and general heavy-handedness are the domains of Mercury and Saturn. Not only does this create strange, cross-breed planets, but it makes the classical planets into flat characters when their meanings and significations are much more multifaceted in the tradition.
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