jupiter1st, my software gives your sun as the hyleg in 2 of the 3 systems for getting it which includes ptolemys system.. the other 1 of the 3 gives part of fortune for the hyleg. i don't know the basis for solar fire software arriving at these conclusions.. maybe that will give you a few more years...
i have version 7.3.1 you might not get it in the earlier versions.. -> reports-> tabulations->further dignities.. follow that path if you have a version close to 7.3.1
Omnisphericus - Skyscript has these interesting comments on the issueSandstone what do you mean by saying "maybe that will give you a few more years... " Part of fortune gives 120 years because he produces Sun as alcocoden. Sun is in Aries in the 10th and doesn't have a major aspect. 120 years don't make sense.
"The most important differences between Ptolomy's and Medieval-Arabic methods to find a releaser are:
1- Arab-Medieval astrology accepted hyleg under the earth.
2- In medieval astrology the hyleg was not accepted if one of its rulers did not aspect it."
Venus is 5th house PlacidusSo according to Ptolemy in Diana's chart Venus in 6th house cannot be Hyleg! And the Hyleg is Ascendant??
Reminder to all: Omnisphericus commenced this thread with a traditional analysis of Whitney Houston's AA rated chart and IMO has delivered convincing results!here is my simple thesis :
if you want to learn about the hyleg and alcocoden( or any other interesting technique to astrology), use an astrology chart that is rated AA.. you stand a better chance of learning the technique you are trying to figure out, as opposed to getting bogged down with a chart that has question marks around it.. as much as it might be fun to focus on someone who you really want to know better that is also famous - pick someone with a chart that is rated AA.. you will get further... go with whitney houstons chart, not because i like her, but because you can try the technique out on a chart that is rated AA.. cheers -
I will try firstly to give the example of the Hyleg and Alcocoden in the chart of the recently died pop diva Whitney Houston.
Lets take the example of Whitney Houston.
View attachment 26865
Her chart is a night chart so we first look for a potential Hyleg in the Moon.
Moon is under the Horizon in a night chart, so it can not be Hyleg.
Then we go to the Sun (in a day chart we first go with the Sun), the Sun is in cadent 6th house so it can not be Hyleg too.
Than we look at the Syzygy, or the last lunation prior the birth. In the Whitney's chart it was a Full Moon prior the birth so the chart is so called Preventional and we take the Pars Fortuna as potential Hyleg.
It is in 4th in Cancer.
We now look at the dispositors to see which dispositor takes the most dignity points at the degree in which the PoF is.
For that reason we take the dignity table, I will use here a table with triplicities according to Dorotheus and terms according to the Egyptians.
Domicileruler takes 5 points, exaltation ruler 4, triplicity ruler 3, term ruler 2 and face ruler 1 point.
Moon, domicile ruler = 5 points
Jupiter exaltation ruler 4 points
Mars, triplicity ruler 3 points
Venus, term ruler 2 points
Venus, face ruler 1 point.
Next we look if the Moon (as having the most points in that degree in which PoF is) is making some classical (conjunction, sextile, square, trine, opposition) aspect to the PoF. She is making a square to the Fortuna but it is in wide orbs (although in the moiety). Jupiter is out of orb. Venus is not in aspect. Mars is making a partile (exact) aspect to the PoF and we will take him instead of the Moon (because it is in partile aspect).
So, Part Of Fortune is a Hyleg in Whitney's chart and Mars is Alcocoden.
Next we look at the years table of the planets potential Alcocodens:
View attachment 26866
We see that the minor years of Mars are 15, Middle Years 40,5 and major years 66.
Mars is angular but in very week sign position (in Exile) so we will take its Middle years (40.5).
Next, we look at the aspects which Mars receives from the benefics and malefics.
If benefic aspects the Alcocoden with Con, sextile or trine adds its minor years as years and its middle years as months, weeks or days (according to the position in which lies).
If Malefic aspects the Alcocoden, subtract from the Alcocoden with its minor years and middle years as months, weeks or days.
Mars is aspecting the other malefic Saturn, but with trine (so this not subtract years because it is benevolent aspect).
Mars is making opposition with Jupiter but out of orb, and with opposition so this does not add to the years.
Mars is making a sextile to Venus and she can add her minor years.
So we add Venus' minor years (8), and her middle years as days (45), because she is cadent and combust. If she was in good position we would add her middle years as months.
So we have,
40.5years + 8years + 45 days = 48 years 7 months and 15 days.
Whitney lived 48 years 6 months and 2 days.
So according to Ptolemy in Diana's chart Venus in 6th house cannot be Hyleg! And the Hyleg is Ascendant??
Reminder to all: Omnisphericus commenced this thread with a traditional analysis of Whitney Houston's AA rated chart and IMO has delivered convincing results!
umkay, we want AA rated charts, and even those might have questions?
Omnisphericus, you wanted Janis Joplin (btw, this jr. astrologer's favorite singer, ever) AA rated from astro.com
19 January 1943 at 09:45 (= 09:45 AM ) Port Arthur TX, USA, 29n54, 93w56
Anyone up for this?
When dealing with the luminaries; sect appears to be of prime importance.
In Day charts, we’re looking for the:
• Sun above the horizon in a masculine quarter (11th or 10th), or
• Sun above the horizon in a feminine quarter (7th, 9th) in a masculine sign, or
• Moon below the horizon in a feminine quarter (4th, 5th), or
• Moon below the horizon in a masculine quarter (1st, 2nd, 3rd) in a feminine sign
In Night charts, we’re looking for the:
• Moon above the horizon in a feminine quarter (9th, 7th), or
• Moon above the horizon in a masculine quarter (10th, 11th) in a feminine sign, or
• Sun below the horizon in a masculine quarter (1st, 2nd), or
• Sun below the horizon in a feminine quarter (4th or 5th) in a masculine sign
In either a day or night chart, the 1st, 10th and 11th appear to be acceptable for either
the Sun or Moon although Rob Hand points out that if the Moon is in the 5º before the
Asc she is in a masculine quarter and should therefore be in a feminine sign and if the
Sun is in the 25º following the Asc he is in a feminine quarter and should therefore be in
a masculine sign. The same logic would apply to the 5º before the 10th, if the Sun is
found there, he should be in a masculine sign as technically he’s in a feminine quarter.
Summary on potential Hylegs
Potential hylegs are the Sun, Moon, Part of Fortune, Asc and SAN. Or instead of using
the PoF, Asc and SAN itself, you are to take the Lord of the place or the Almuten of the
place. Some instructions advise you to look for the Almuten of all these places.
As a general rule, the potential Hyleg must aspect at least one of its dignity rulers.
Ptolemy appears to be the only exception in this, preferring a planet with two or more
dignities and no aspect over a planet in aspect with only one dignity.
Alchabitius rejected the Moon as hyleg if she was under the Sun’s beams. Heliodorus
rejected any planet as hyleg if it was USB.
The Hyleg is the giver of life. Once it is found, we need to look for the Alcochoden
or giver of years.