Can I afford to retire now?

wca

Well-known member
I changed it because I thought I was addressing the poster who put the pictures up there. I did not realize at first that the post was from you, WCA.

There was no attempt to be devious.

thank you for clarifying, like I said -- I had no malicious intent. I participate on here a lot. and I think you and I have engaged before. I don't believe I've ever given anyone reason to dismiss me from a thread, but I do find it important to provide feedback especially when what's needed is a little encouragement. you have the skills to read your chart, I know you do. let other contributors help guide you when things get stuck, but something in your soul should resonate in this chart. this is a reminder to me, and to all of us, that we're all here to grow together and celebrate the art of horary astrology.
 

Catalina

Well-known member
before others weigh in, what is your take on the chart?

When you say something like this, you assume that I know I should do this first, and I didn't know that. I just thought it was a courteous thing to do. If you had been more clear from the beginning, things would have gone much more smoothly.

For example, you could have said:

"Catalina, in horary, in case you did not know, the astrologer casts the chart. That means you should make an effort to read it yourself since you are the astrologer. After you do that, then others will be happy to help you to make sure you are on the right track."
 

Catalina

Well-known member
thank you for clarifying, like I said -- I had no malicious intent. I participate on here a lot. and I think you and I have engaged before. I don't believe I've ever given anyone reason to dismiss me from a thread, but I do find it important to provide feedback especially when what's needed is a little encouragement. you have the skills to read your chart, I know you do. let other contributors help guide you when things get stuck, but something in your soul should resonate in this chart. this is a reminder to me, and to all of us, that we're all here to grow together and celebrate the art of horary astrology.

Thanks. However, I don't recall ever "engaging" with you before. I'll look around and see, though.
 
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venuschild

Banned
Catalina

I really don't know who to address this to....

I've been posting on astrology forums for years. Some things I know and some things I don't. I help other people when I feel I have something to offer, but horary is not that easy to learn. To me, a forum is where people learn from each other.

I have paid astrologers before. I'm not against that. These forums are not supposed to be a place where you PAY.

Furthermore, I don't think MY thread is the place for this sort of thing.

WCA

actually, forums are exactly the place to put one's opinion, especially when it relates to the thread (as my comment does). I noticed, Catalina, that your post was edited down to remove the last bit (the original text remains in my quotation above), but as you like.

Who would one rather discuss successful horary with one who studies and cares about the art or one just seeking the free ride?

Yes, we discuss professional, an correct form and methodology!

This is recommended on this forum:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/horary_intro.html

I have studied diligently horary for over a decade and I learned much from Houlding's course!

No one knows everything about anything but listening and doing the same 'backward dance' puts or gives astrology a bad name and I and others wish to bring astrology out of the grave of so many skeptical to where it is respected by the earth's overall population!

When you have read Henry Coley's text on this website you'll understand why he said what he did for the betterment of astrologers, our sacred art of horary:


http://www.skyscript.co.uk/clavis.html

"One grand Reason (I suppose) that hath occasioned many ingenious persons to have but low and mean thoughts of Astrology, is this; Viz. There are (and hath been) many ignorant and illiterate Professors of both Sex) in, and about this famous and Flourishing City of London, (whose names I shall not mention) that too confidently adventure to set up with a very small stock of Knowledg in Astrology, for the sake of Gain, and profess themselves Artists, but are not able to perform anything therein according to Art; only stuff their Clyents with many Impertinencies, under pretence of the Language of the Stars, thereby abusing their Querents, and consequently bring a Scandal upon this so excellent and useful a piece of Learning, and the more noble Professors thereof; which hath deterred many persons from the Study of Astrology, that otherwise (perhaps) might have proved good Proficients therein. I speak not this out of any prejudice I have to their Persons, nor in the least to advantage my own Interest, for I am a lover of Art, and those that (without abuse) do use it."
 
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Catalina

Well-known member
I have already studied the first few lessons on Houlding's site and I refer to her book often. I am not looking for a free ride.

Good grief.
 

wca

Well-known member
When you say something like this, you assume that I know I should do this first, and I didn't know that. I just thought it was a courteous thing to do. If you had been more clear from the beginning, things would have gone much more smoothly.

For example, you could have said:

"Catalina, in horary, in case you did not know, the astrologer casts the chart. That means you should make an effort to read it yourself since you are the astrologer. After you do that, then others will be happy to help you to make sure you are on the right track."

had my emails been coming through that this thread had been getting some activity I would have been here sooner. the email situation has been resolved, but I disagree that I should take any responsibility over the "smoothness" (or lack thereof) of the conversation here. the question I first asked was straightforward and assumed nothing. it was not berating, not challenging, nor confrontational -- simple and asked your thoughts. I think it's best to bear in mind the maxim, "don't focus on the tone at the risk of missing the message."

Catalina, this suggestion for how I could have worded my first comment is appreciated. but to be fair, I would never want to start that way because it implies you did something wrong. I don't think you did -- you clearly said you didn't know. it's absolutely not a big deal, but I wanted to check in with you on your thoughts on the horary before I weighed in, to ensure we were both on the same page and to see that you were participating just as much as I would have been. I believe firmly in seeking to understand before I'm seeking to be understood, and my first comment was an intent to understand. I think in all objectivity, anyone would agree that that's fair and actually respectful of your space as an astrologer and contributor on AW.

Thanks. However, I don't recall ever "engaging" with you before. I'll look around and see, though.

eh, maybe we haven't. I don't know. I recognize your user name, that is all.

well, this has been tremendously exciting and to absolutely no gain. even though you removed that part of your post, I think it's probably best for me to remove myself from this thread anyway. it does appear that unpopular opinions are unwelcome.
 

Catalina

Well-known member
"Who would one rather discuss successful horary with one who studies and cares about the art or one just seeking the free ride?"

Frankly, I would rather discuss it with someone who uses correct sentence form. I'm an English teacher.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
"Who would one rather discuss successful horary with one who studies and cares about the art or one just seeking the free ride?"

Frankly, I would rather discuss it with someone who uses correct sentence form. I'm an English teacher.
IF wca had instead written:

"Who would one rather discuss successful horary with?
One who studies and cares about the art?
Or one just seeking the free ride?"

he may or may not have satisfied the rules of 'correct sentence form'

HOWEVER

There is no requirement for members to 'use correct sentence form'
because, quite simply
ours is an astrological learning forum
not an English class

FURTHERMORE

Being 'able to use correct sentence form'

unfortunately is no useful qualification as an effective horary astrologer
and
wca is an excellent and experienced horary astrologer
:smile:
 

Catalina

Well-known member
Well, I thought I was addressing VenusChild, not WCA.

Whether or not one uses correct sentence form, some clarity in communication is always a good thing.
 

Love2Know

Well-known member
Stop ganging up on her thread it is getting in very poor taste. This is more placed in another thread where the original poster provided an intended plateform for this discussion. Now it is like catalinas wishes are being ignored, which I personally there is no need for it when an easy solution is right here! It has nothing to do with the point being good or not just out of respect for the OP's wishes really...
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member

Well, I thought I was addressing VenusChild, not WCA.


Whether or not one uses correct sentence form,
some clarity in communication is always a good thing.
Precisely....
To be clear then
ours is a mixed-ability astrological learning forum
we learn by discussion, irrespective of level of attainment
and particularly with regard to Horary
members are all encouraged to delineate
Many of us are complete beginners with scant astrological learning
some of us have several decades of astrological learning completed
wca is remarkably skilled at horary
as well as polite with good intentions :smile:

Stop ganging up on her thread it is getting in very poor taste. This is more placed in another thread where the original poster provided an intended plateform for this discussion. Now it is like catalinas wishes are being ignored, which I personally there is no need for it when an easy solution is right here! It has nothing to do with the point being good or not just out of respect for the OP's wishes really...
wca simply explained the basic usual expected format
best used when asking an horary question
in order to receive the best possible answer
and ufortunately wca was misunderstood


just my 2cents
 

Love2Know

Well-known member
Precisely....
To be clear then
ours is a mixed-ability astrological learning forum
we learn by discussion, irrespective of level of attainment
and particularly with regard to Horary
members are all encouraged to delineate
Many of us are complete beginners with scant astrological learning
some of us have several decades of astrological learning completed
wca is remarkably skilled at horary
as well as polite with good intentions :smile:


wca simply explained the basic usual expected format
best used when asking an horary question
in order to receive the best possible answer

just my 2cents

Right and that is true but my point is regardless of this it is creating tension which I find it could be easily avoided in this situtaion. There is a time and a place for everything. You could have the best recipe for blueberry muffins ever but why go give a recipe loaded with blueberries to someone with an allergy or intolerance to blueberries??
 

Catalina

Well-known member
I also was misunderstood. My issue was not with WCA. It was with VenusChild.
I am sure WCA is an excellent astrologer. I look forward to seeing that demonstrated sometime in the future.

I am sorry for creating trouble.
Please forgive me for my ignorance.
Thank you for your help.
 

venuschild

Banned
Love2know

Right and that is true but my point is regardless of this it is creating tension which I find it could be easily avoided in this situtaion.

Got a acquaintance who is a master tailor and the same thing, emotional arguments happen on forums about clothing, dress, tailoring...people threaten name call get bent out of shape...call each other strange things that is hilarious in retrospect!

It's just a Forum, ...most don't realize if we were all sitting in a coffee shop or having dinner together it would be less irritating to some..but the water planets WELL LOOK OUT SENSITIVITY abounding. And the Firey placements, Whew!

There is no ganging up here it happens so frequently on forums that somebody has to get offended, and if we all had our maps in view we'd know the why of it!
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I also was misunderstood. My issue was not with WCA. It was with VenusChild.
I am sure WCA is an excellent astrologer. I look forward to seeing that demonstrated sometime in the future.

I am sorry for creating trouble.
Please forgive me for my ignorance.
Thank you for your help.
I can safely say that I am one of the most ignorant people on the planet
particularly with respect to Horary astrology :smile:
HOWEVER
a basic summary from bobZemco may be of use at this stage


The theory behind Horary is very simple:

1) there is a Question that weighs very heavily on your mind.


2) when you have a clear understanding of what it is that you really want to know, you cast a chart or an astrologer casts one for you



3) That freezes the Planets as they transit the heavens at that moment (hence: Horary)

4) the Rising Sign and Planet that rules the Rising Sign represents you

5) the House, or often more correctly, the Sign that represents the Matter you're asking about and the Planet that rules that Sign represents the Matter. The Matter can be a person or a thing or an idea (like a rumor or a dream).

6) the relationship between those two rulers tells you what has happened, and what is yet to come. That relationship is in the form of aspects. If there are no aspects, then there is nothing to come.

7) the Moon plays a special dual-role signifying the State of Mind of the Querent and also how things play out, how they happen, and when they happen. When there are no aspects formed by the Moon (ie it is Void of Course) then nothing will happen. Note that there are a handful of certain special select Horary Questions where a Void of Course Moon is not relevant. Those are often war, conflict or legal questions, or Questions related to Career.

8) in addition to forming aspects, those Planets must also have Perfect Reception, as opposed to simple Reception. Reception is about "allowing." For example if Mars is applying in aspect to Jupiter, and Jupiter receives Mars then Jupiter is allowing Mars to act. Jupiter is effectively saying, "Go ahead and do that thing that you do." If Jupiter does not receive Mars, then Jupiter is effectively saying, "Go away and leave me alone. Go. Get out of here." If it is a Sign of Enmity, like Mars in Capricorn (the Fall of Jupiter) then Jupiter is effectively saying, "Cease and Desist. I will stop you from doing anything. If necessary, I may even get violent to stop you." And that just might be the case if Jupiter were also in a Violent Sign, otherwise Jupiter would just keep slamming doors in your face.

9) How things actually play out depends a lot on the "strength" of the Planets involved. The strength of the Planets indicates their ability to do act and do things and carry out plans and make things happen. A Planet that is not just in its own Sign, but also in its Triplicity or Term, and is Direct in Motion, Fast in Speed, Angular or Succedent, in Hayz, in a trine aspect with Venus/Jupiter/Sun is very powerful. That's a person with a purpose in life who has both the will and ability to act and make things happen.

A Planet that is Slow in Speed, Retrograde, in Fall/Detriment, Cadent, and not in Sect or worse is Out-of Sect isn't going to be able to do anything, even when there is Perfect Reception in the chart, this person is going to botch every thing up and turn a dream about ponies and gum-drops into a nightmare, because they don't have the strength or will to make things happen.

10) when charts have early/late Ascendants, Void of Course Moons, Moon via Combusta, Saturn in the 1st or 7th House (when not a significator) you can look at the chart for reasons why you are getting those warnings.

Often a non-significator Planet is making an aspect to one of the primary significators. Sextiles and trines usually indicate on-going events which first must be completed before anything can happen. Conjunctions, squares and opposition usually indicate obstacles that are preventing things from happening, and with the "hard" aspects sometimes things can still happen if those obstacles can be overcome.

The condition and placement of the Moon/Ascendant Ruler will tell you the State of Mind and what kind of person the Querent is; good-hearted, or ambivalent, or in sheer terror, in a total panic, has the "stink of desperation" or is immature and selfish, looking do to harm, or is someone you wouldn't let your dog go near. The Planet that is the Quesited/Matter will tell you about them, but not with the same clarity as the Querent. A poorly placed 10th House Ruler might be a job you really don't want, because it ain't all that or isn't what you think it is. A poorly placed 7th House Ruler is someone you might not really want to be with, or something you don't really want to buy and so on.

For a Planet (like the Ascendant Ruler) in Detriment, it is important that it make an aspect to the 1st House (ie it is not inconjunct in the 2nd, 6th, 8th or 12th Houses), and for other significators that it aspect the House it rules. A Planet that is inconjunct to the House it rules can't witness or give testimony to the affairs of that House. That means it cannot control those events, and being weak in Detriment has even less control and less ability to effect outcomes
.
 

Love2Know

Well-known member
"Debate/Discussion of Horary Methods

If you would like to discuss techniques etc, please post in the Horary Technique forum. Please do not debate or discuss horary methods in the areas on the forum dedicated to answering horary questions (e.g., "Horary Questions on Relational Issues," "Career-Related Horary Questions," etc.)." (Horary forum rules)

So again my point was regardless of how right you think you are or how much you think you know on how to practice and interpret horary, preaching about it here is inappropriate. PLUSSS the fallacy of just because something is old like "old or ancient or original" information does not mean it is right, better or even interpreted correctly. We are all imperfect and therefore anyone who calls themselves an expert or carries on as one is very suspect in my opinion.
 
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