Effeminate traits in a man

Raincow

Member
My best friend ever had the same sun moon placements as I. He was asc and sun leo, pisces moon, cancer venus. A musician and pianist. A big guy (huge bones) with gentle ways, his talk, his walk, his whole being was sooo effeminate and perhaps childlike. And he didn't worry any at all about it.
 

dreamtimez

Well-known member
Both examples that spring to mind are virgo suns. One is extremely exuberant and bright in his dress, and has absolutely no qualms wearing pink (or any other 'girly' colour), to the extent that he is often mistaken as gay. He has a cancer ascendant square uranus. Only saturn is in the 12th house. The other I don't have the chart for, but the way he expresses himself is very camp, even the way he runs! He's also mortally sensitive about his sexuality and hates being wound up about this.


This almost describes a friend of mine ... :happy: He has Virgo Sun, Cancer Moon and Saturn square Uranus in 12th house. He's shy, loves colour and he understands me better than some of my women friends ! :kissing:
 

danashock

Well-known member
even though libra is a masculine sign,it is still ruled by venus. Most guys i know with lots of planets in libra are very effeminite. moon in libra charms the ladies like no other! Also if there are lots of water and feminine planets (neptune/venus) ruling the chart
 
I was wondering if anyone has observed effeminate traits in a heterosexual man in their chart. Would a cancer moon or asc suggest this character, or is that far too simplistic?

I have Cancer Ascendant and Venus conjunct my Asc. in the 1st but I also have Mars in the 12th in Cancer conjunct my Asc.

I'm not vaguely effeminate, although I'm an excellent dancer, graceful in general and have a pretty boys face.

I think you have to consider what the word "effeminate" means and how boys are shaped beginning in school to think if they "act" a certain way they're gay or effeminate. And many of them, like most people, follow the label or box they're given by "the majority", whether it's announced or just relentlessly hinted.

I had a neighborhood friend who was like that. When we were all 5, 6 and 7, there was no real difference between us except he was smaller and not quite as athletic as the rest of us- but he wasn't gay. But as the years passed, he started spending more and more time with girls and by high school he thought he was gay.

I think the Stars set the table but the expression is conditioned by a given culture. And in today's American culture, grace and taste are viewed as "effeminate", and being crude, unkempt, boy-like, slob-like and apathetic are "masculine" traits. This is easily the most ridiculous and ignorant perspective possible. But that's what Hollywood and the fashion industry are telling American men. Personally, I find it disgusting.
 
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byjove

Account Closed
That is a very interesting perspective, and view into particular things, masterbuilder. How interesting! And you seem to have a refreshing confidence, mature perspective and understanding of gender roles and to sexual orientation.

How true, society has some crazy ideas on what it is to be a man/woman, heterosexual/homosexual/ and is generally unsure about bisexual, from what I can see.

I think your Mars touching the ASC affects your Venus on the ASC. And they're Cancer, you say? How very Angelina Jolie! I often think about how these arrangements have affected her physical makeup, and doesn't she have many distinct features!

You say many things there which raises many questions...and think there would be good conversation there! I began a course in sociology here and felt thrilled to find a constructive outlet for this kind of thought.
 
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RayAustin

Well-known member
Things like this could only be for sure answered after studies looking at the charts of typical heterosexual men and effeminate heterosexual men--but I'd say the Moon and Venus and signs like Pisces would have something to do with it and the ascendant; even Mercury since it copies whatever planet it contacts and is androgynous in nature.

I wouldn't say my astrotwin Zac Efron to have effeminate traits, I don't know him personally, but he is effeminate looking and has a first house Venus conjunct Pluto in Scorpio, with Moon sextiling from Virgo. Mercury is conjunct Venus as well and with Moon&Mercury being convertible this gives him a strikingly effeminate face--I think I can see a bit of the 'trickster' Mercury in his eyebrows. He also has Venus sextile Neptune, and Moon trine Neptune very closely.

His chart ruler Mars is in Libra, as is the Sun. So his masculine planets are a bit effeminate as well (both under Venus rulership).

230pxzacefron2007.jpg


I know this thread is about traits, but it'd be interesting to know how his mannerisms are as well. I would expect those to also be effeminate if he isn't hiding it to not appear gay. He's been teased about that in the media.

In my opinion those with feminine traits are going to have strong contacts to Venus/Moon in some way especially if they contact Neptune (but I wouldn't say Neptune alone).
 
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Momma's Kumquat

Well-known member
a few things I've noticed...

Hard aspects between uranus and venus can make women more manly and men more feminine. venus conjunct sun or ascendant can make men less aggressive. a strong neptune will give a man a very feminine sensitivity.
 
That is a very interesting perspective, and view into particular things, masterbuilder. How interesting! And you seem to have a refreshing confidence, mature perspective and understanding of gender roles and to sexual orientation.

How true, society has some crazy ideas on what it is to be a man/woman, heterosexual/homosexual/ and is generally unsure about bisexual, from what I can see.

I think your Mars touching the ASC affects your Venus on the ASC. And they're Cancer, you say? How very Angelina Jolie! I often think about how these arrangements have affected her physical makeup, and doesn't she have many distinct features!

You say many things there which raises many questions...and think there would be good conversation there! I began a course in sociology here and felt thrilled to find a constructive outlet for this kind of thought.


Thank you ByJove. Sociology is an interesting study but I've found that it's greatly aided by an extensive study of History. I'll give you an example. The first police unit in the history of America was formed in NYC in 1821 I believe. It was formed because the poor were robbing the rich, especially at Christmas. If we look forward 100 years we see the exact same types of conditions prevailing in NYC, the difference being the police unit was larger. For example, Ella Fitzgerald was a homeless child when she was introduced to the bandleader Chick Webb. Yes, homeless. If we look back 100 years to 1621 in England we will also see very similar conditions. conditions. Of course today in NYC we see the same conditions as those in 1821, the difference being there are more wealthy and middle income earners and a much larger police force. Of course this doesn't seem to deter the dominican teenage gangs at all just as it didn't deter the Irish and English gangs in the 1800s.

So if you're studying crime, drugs, homelessness etc in America, sociologically, how can we not study the structures that create these conditions? And the only way we can truly understand these structures is to examine them over time, to see if they are random or actually part of a serious pattern.

To be brutally honest, sociology is impossible without history. Political science is the same- impossible without hard history. And history, as we are all observing, is the microcosmic study of the macrocosmic influence of the Heavens on Earth.

As for my chart, my Venus-Mars combo is somewhat unusual in that my Asc. is at the Midpoint of Venus-Mars and Sun-Moon, with Sun being in Gemini and Moon being in Leo. It's an interesting combination and gives me very unique insights into Male and Female Essence and Expression, as well as Form and Function.

Having said all that, I'm extremely male in a profound, complete sense, not something as silly as heterosexual or "type A". I know very well how male lions and male deer, Bucks feel. Testosterone is a magnificent thing but never as magnificent as when it is ignited and magnetized by Estrogen, by Female Essence. This is the eternal dance of Life. Sex is merely a tool, a puppet. "Sexuality" is even more superficial and silly from this perspective.

A bull and a queen bee are never referred to as "heterosexual". Why? Because sex is never separated from Life with other animals. Yes, humans are animals. But we see this truth with plants and insects as well. A Black Widow is never called "heterosexual". The thought itself would never occur to anyone.

But with humans we have a host of make-believe words to explain the separation of the sexual act from Life itself. If you think about this nothing could be more paradoxical and delusional.

With the study of the Heavens we study the elemental forces of Life that shape and express male and female essence, and the ebb and flow of cultures, peoples and nations- all of which come from one thing- the union of male and female.

America is a very unique situation because we had a governmental structure before we had a culture. Usually it's the other way around. So we're still finding our way culturally with a lot of baggage from the past.

Dialogues of this sort are very good. Thanks for the reply. ;-)
 
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Things like this could only be for sure answered after studies looking at the charts of typical heterosexual men and effeminate heterosexual men--but I'd say the Moon and Venus and signs like Pisces would have something to do with it and the ascendant; even Mercury since it copies whatever planet it contacts and is androgynous in nature.

I wouldn't say my astrotwin Zac Efron to have effeminate traits, I don't know him personally, but he is effeminate looking and has a first house Venus conjunct Pluto in Scorpio, with Moon sextiling from Virgo. Mercury is conjunct Venus as well and with Moon&Mercury being convertible this gives him a strikingly effeminate face--I think I can see a bit of the 'trickster' Mercury in his eyebrows. He also has Venus sextile Neptune, and Moon trine Neptune very closely.

His chart ruler Mars is in Libra, as is the Sun. So his masculine planets are a bit effeminate as well (both under Venus rulership).

230pxzacefron2007.jpg


I know this thread is about traits, but it'd be interesting to know how his mannerisms are as well. I would expect those to also be effeminate if he isn't hiding it to not appear gay. He's been teased about that in the media.

In my opinion those with feminine traits are going to have strong contacts to Venus/Moon in some way especially if they contact Neptune (but I wouldn't say Neptune alone).

Honestly, I think it's extremely difficult to have this discussion these days because the weakening and softening of American males through school and media culture has been extreme in the last 30 years.

Most notably as far as this picture above is concerned is the gay influence. Gays are most of the voices and minds behind fashion and all related things and I have personally watched gay styles become "the accepted" style for male youths over the last 15-20 years, just through media saturation which make "trends". Their is a gay mentality and perspective. They write about it all the time but the people don't think of it that way. Check out the book "Boi Culture."

The alternative to the above look is the "thug" look, which takes its inspiration from prisoners, most notably the style of wearing the pants far below the buttocks. This comes from the prison culture where it's a symbol of a submissive, obedient, emasculated male. The rest of the style looks borderline homeless and always juvenile.

The basic creed is for boys to look, act and think like Boys for as long as possible. You see this in fashion, you see it in the behavior of 40 year old men still trying to live out their 16 year old fantasies. I find this entire pattern disgraceful in the extreme.

Becoming a Man is barely a concept these days, let alone something one pursues, prepares for, works towards, is trained how to do- internally and externally.

If you put this exact same boy, same chart, in the 1930s in Virginia, he would think, look and act a completely different way- namely, he would have been learning how to be a man and physically doing things that come from and enhance male essence, form and function- from work to dress to speech and life goals.

Today we have superficial words trying to describe far deeper forces. Problem is these words are misshaping and separating consciousness from the deeper, true forces of Life.

One becomes a Man. One is not born that way. In the process one learns how to express the energy of the stars through one's Male Essence and Form. Essence leads, Form and Function follow.

For example, sensitivity has nothing to do with "effeminate" if you understand the deeper meaning of "sensitive" as meaning "aware".

By the same token, a man who expresses his heart is not "in touch with his feminine side." He is HONEST and unafraid of the consequences, good or bad. Honesty has nothing to do with feminine or masculine, nor does the Heart.

But these words and phrases litter the American consciousness and do nothing but obscure and warp people's minds and views. And as we know from the latest research in quantum physics, words and thoughts shape reality, in any direction.

It's all very unfortunate and often disgraceful. And I should add, to me the word Man automatically includes the words Wife and Children, Husband and Father. They are built in to the word Man. I do acknowledge some exceptions of course, such as the extremes of warrior and artist that often make wife and children impossible. And of course the monks who remove themselves from the cycles and rhythms and dance of Life entirely.

But these are extremes, like Nicola Tesla and Duke Ellington or the Dalai Lama or any number of samurai during the warring states period in Japan or similar warriors in the ancient Mediterranean world.
 
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ethertwist

Well-known member
Honestly, I think it's extremely difficult to have this discussion these days because the weakening and softening of American males through school and media culture has been extreme in the last 30 years.

Most notably as far as this picture above is concerned is the gay influence. Gays are most of the voices and minds behind fashion and all related things and I have personally watched gay styles become "the accepted" style for male youths over the last 15-20 years, just through media saturation which make "trends". Their is a gay mentality and perspective. They write about it all the time but the people don't think of it that way. Check out the book "Boi Culture."

You make so many interesting and intriguing points in your posts and I really enjoy reading things written from a sociological perspective. I think it gets tricky when we talk about a fixed "gay style" or attribute all things soft and feminine in current male expression as being a byproduct of some dominant "gay aesthetic" because that would presuppose that the gay community has only one singular and monolithic mode of expression (gay= soft/feminine & lesbian=tough/masculine), which doesn't take into account the diversity in the gay community itself. Perhaps I'm misinterpreting what you're saying, but as a gay person, I can attest to the fact that the gay community is constantly evolving and there is no one uniform that we agree upon. In fact, I'm seeing more of a rejection of the overly manicured steroetype these days among some gay men, especially as it becomes more prevalent among straight men, almost as a means of maintaining some differentiation between what is seen as "gay" and "straight". Fashion itself is changing in this regard, whether shaped by gay designers and editors or not, because currently there isn't as much of that pretty boy/beefcake look on the runways and in fashion magazines that we were seeing five or ten years ago. I agree with you that sexual orientation as a label should exist outside of the dialogue about gender expression and politics because in many ways, they're not as related as they may seem.

Sorry if I veered things off with an unrelated tangent! :happy:
 

byjove

Account Closed
With the aim of staying on topic in the thread, I'm curious masterbuilder, how you feel your conjoined Venus and Mars influence your nature? Can you give us example of your hobbies, your friendships etc. Also, can we see your chart, can you post it? There's more than these at play here - it's clear in your attitudes!

As a gay guy I contest a good deal of the above, but I think it's better if we move the sociology to another thread in general chat!
 
You make so many interesting and intriguing points in your posts and I really enjoy reading things written from a sociological perspective. I think it gets tricky when we talk about a fixed "gay style" or attribute all things soft and feminine in current male expression as being a byproduct of some dominant "gay aesthetic" because that would presuppose that the gay community has only one singular and monolithic mode of expression (gay= soft/feminine & lesbian=tough/masculine), which doesn't take into account the diversity in the gay community itself. Perhaps I'm misinterpreting what you're saying, but as a gay person, I can attest to the fact that the gay community is constantly evolving and there is no one uniform that we agree upon. In fact, I'm seeing more of a rejection of the overly manicured steroetype these days among some gay men, especially as it becomes more prevalent among straight men, almost as a means of maintaining some differentiation between what is seen as "gay" and "straight". Fashion itself is changing in this regard, whether shaped by gay designers and editors or not, because currently there isn't as much of that pretty boy/beefcake look on the runways and in fashion magazines that we were seeing five or ten years ago. I agree with you that sexual orientation as a label should exist outside of the dialogue about gender expression and politics because in many ways, they're not as related as they may seem.

Sorry if I veered things off with an unrelated tangent! :happy:


Not to offend you but I don't think there is such a thing as "gay" or a "gay community".

There is no such thing as "sexual preference" from the perspective of Life.

So-called gay people still build their entire existence/identity around the fundamental drive of Life- those organs and that organ complex. That's why it has somehow recently by given the words "gay" and such as their identity. But the root of the identity has not changed. Life still speaks but in an reversed, dead-end way.

As I'm sure you know, the phenomenon of men sticking their erections in places other than women is not new. What is completely new is numbers of people basing their Identity on this. Even in ancient Greece their was never a phenomenon like this because the Greeks never separated Life from Sex. They also never entertained the idea that a man would not be a father and husband. But there were words for men who had sex with other men and such. Greece was rather unusual with this. In Rome they were called "catamites" or quite simply "female impersonators".

To return to the present, despite all these invented words like "gender roles", "heterosexual" etc. the fundamental Life drive is still there, whether you "prefer" to have sex with another human or a plastic doll. This recent phenomenon called "gay" does not want the consequences of the Life cycle and organs. But it's not only gays who are removing themselves from the Life cycle. Americans over the last 30 years have become increasingly uncertain, afraid of, confused by and ambivalent about family, marriage, children etc, women and men. American men in particular have declined in every sense of the word since the late 1960s. Decline here defined by the word "virility" and all associated ideas and behaviors.

From the perspective of Life, a word like "sexuality" doesn't even scratch the surface of describing this development.

That's why I mention the monks and such as exceptions because they literally remove themselves in every way from all parts of the Life cycle. Gays and such do not. It's an entirely different phenomenon with completely different group-historical roots.

My point is not about the rightness or wrongness and such of these words and behaviors.

My point is about the deeper truth and reality of exactly what the phenomenon IS. They are not nearly as simplistic as they are presented to be, nor as irrelevant.

People accept these words without any examination or deep analysis, as I did in my youth. When examined from the perspective of Life, however, a very different picture emerges.

And I should the so-called lesbian phenomenon is an entirely different thing from gay. Totally and completely different in origin and function.
 
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With the aim of staying on topic in the thread, I'm curious masterbuilder, how you feel your conjoined Venus and Mars influence your nature? Can you give us example of your hobbies, your friendships etc. Also, can we see your chart, can you post it? There's more than these at play here - it's clear in your attitudes!

As a gay guy I contest a good deal of the above, but I think it's better if we move the sociology to another thread in general chat!

The Mars-Venus Asc. MP, along with the Sun-Moon Asc MP have blended the energies of these four planets into One energy, One ray so to speak.

This process has taken many years to refine, develop and fully comprehend. It gives me a synthesis of apparent opposites in just about everything I do, filtered of course through the signs involved- Gemini, Cancer and Leo.

Cancer is actually a very intense, passionate sign. I think people forget that it's Cardinal Water. Yes it's ruled by the Moon but it is the sign of giving birth itself. This is the most fundamental drive there is. So with Mars and Venus conjoined in Cancer at my Asc. I have a very cyclical, rhythmic nature that is also very intense and passionate.

So the combination of these energies makes as much an artist as a warrior/athlete...as introverted and internal as I am extroverted and public.....very refined in many ways but very bold and forceful in other ways...very empathetic but very proud, aloof and extremely self-confident..left and right brain have merged with me....analysis and creativity are the same.

But as I said, this fusion has taken decades to accomplish.

Of course, other parts of my chart amplify this. Pluto Quintile Ascendant...Saturn sextile Asc......Moon Sextile Uranus...Merc Conjunct Saturn Trine Pluto...Mars Squ Uranus....Sun Trine Jupiter...Sun Squ Pluto....and a host of Venus aspects- trines and sextiles primarily.

Where can I post my chart??

I'm not sure what you contest because from the perspective of Life, there really is nothing else but Life. Life does not care about anything but furthering itself. We see this truth in every other form of Life.

Love has absolutely nothing to do with life. Marriage is the attempt to set some boundaries on this drive for the peace and good of the community, people and nation. But even this attempt to regulate it often is unable to restrain its blind ambition. Sex is merely a tool, an outlet for this ambition.

That's why Love has never been a definition or requirement for marriage anywhere at any time on the globe.

Make no mistake. Marriage is about POSSESSION. It is the formalization of the basic drive to possess and make Life- from man to woman and esp. from woman to child. Love and other ideas come much further down the line and are optional. That's why we and every other culture have laws to govern the marriage arrangements. It is because possessions, human possessions and lesser things are involved.

This is what I mean when I say I know how male lions feel. The Male Lion is built for only two things, both intertwined: Conquest and Breeding. They must conquer another lion's pride in order to breed and possess their own offspring. Every ounce and second of their life is built for this. This drive is so great that they will kill all cubs from another male in order to throw Female Lions into heat and estrus, so they can breed and posses their own children.

I know this feeling all too well. And it has grown as I have matured. Compared to what I feel now, the "horniness" I knew as a youth is child's play. Horny couldn't even scratch the surface of the Drive for Life and possession that I feel.

Now if you wish to step outside of Life, then yes, you could certainly contest many of my views. You could describe a queen bee and a bull as heterosexual. You could say that communities, peoples and nations are exist because of something other than the union of male and female. You could say Sex has nothing to do with Life. Although biology might present a few problems with that- from the hypothalamus to the phallus, which of course are intimately connected, as you know.

But I have no problem with people who want to step outside of Life and remove themselves from the cycle. The discussion is entertaining either way.
 
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TayTay

Active member
I guess what makes a man actually "feel" more on the feminine side is a Venus-Moon aspect. These are the typical ladies' men:love:.
Unfortunately, they can be major womanizers who love all women and no one woman in particular..

I kind of agree with this, especially about "Feeling" more feminine with a Venus-Moon aspect
I have Moon conjunct Venus, and I don't think I have particularly feminine/effeminate traits, but I FEEL more feminine than masculine often times.
I definitely don't think I sound anything but heterosexual, though, even though I'm a bit more soft spoken than most and am bisexual.
I think maybe sounding more effeminate would be more of a Mercury trait? So maybe aspects involving Mercury would show this a bit more? I'm not sure.

Others that could contribute to my "feeling" more feminine or having slightly softer features are probably my Venus trine Ascendant and Venus square Neptune aspects, but I don't think those are as powerful as the Moon-Venus aspect.
 

virgo18

Well-known member
-I heard that men with Virgo Moon have a "tendency" to be effeminate. As well as Libra or Taurus ascendants for men.
 

byjove

Account Closed
--raises hand to much of what was just said above ^^--

I've Cancer Rising
Virgo Moon
Moon opposition Venus
Venus in Pisces
Mercury in Pisces

mitigating
Sun in Aries
Mars in Gemini
Jupiter in 10th of Aries (clear to all from the 10th)

Basic mannerisms - not what we call 'effeminate'
But I can happily talk about emotions, and with Cancer rising, there are some days (not too frequent, thankfully) that I wake up feeling with the sensitivity of 20 people, and feel extremely vulnerable...horrible growing up with. But I've learned to not take things personally on these days, hide away for a comfy day and make no decisions, let the day pass. The next day I wake up feeling as strong and centered as the earth.

The fact is, I blur the lines, with some extreme contrasts. And little could embody that better than Mercury exactly on the MC weaving magic by exact trine to the AC to make sure the world hears. I think my Mars is extremely known of me too. And if the question is comes up, I'm male and gay.
 
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byjove

Account Closed
8th house? Which house system do you use? I've Aqua on the 8th with no planets in it in Placidus.

To be honest, I'm not convinced we know enough to use Chiron. To me it's highly speculative. Maybe there is use for it. But to me Chiron is another one of those things that to me modern astrologers have spotted, discussed, labelled and stuck to like glue in about 5 seconds.
 

virgo18

Well-known member
8th house? Which house system do you use? I've Aqua on the 8th with no planets in it in Placidus.

To be honest, I'm not convinced we know enough to use Chiron. To me it's highly speculative. Maybe there is use for it. But to me Chiron is another one of those things that to me modern astrologers have spotted, discussed, labelled and stuck to like glue in about 5 seconds.



Sorry I didn't pay much attention to the houses and I made a mistake.... I also use placidus...
And I do use Chiron, (in spite many people don't use it) I think the aspects are important. In a very personal opinion.
 

Earth Sign

Well-known member
Thank you @ MasterBuilder224 and Byjove for your discussion on this this thread. I thought I'd link you to a thread started here quite a while ago that was inviting this sort of discussion, in case you'd like to revive it. It might be a more appropriate place for this topic.

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23471

And MasterBuilder, if you already have your chart done on Astro.com or another website, you can save it to your computer and upload it on to the forum via the "Manage Attachments" button on the "Additional Options" section of the reply window. There's a how-to here:

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12126

Thanks for you thoughts. :)
 

R4VEN

Well-known member
To be honest, I'm not convinced we know enough to use Chiron. To me it's highly speculative. Maybe there is use for it. But to me Chiron is another one of those things that to me modern astrologers have spotted, discussed, labelled and stuck to like glue in about 5 seconds.
33 years is hardly 5 seconds.

It has been my own study of Chiron which drew me into astrology in the first instance. My own experience has been that astrology as a study was somewhat dry and meaningless without Chiron.
 
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