A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

leomoon

Well-known member
I'm not making a statement for or against anything here, just sharing what I had saved years ago for consideration:


Age of Aquarius – and the incorrect assumptions made in the past: (Terry MacKinnell)
[FONT=&quot]Rumen Kolev also states the heliacal rising (or setting) of a stellar object must occur before the Sun rises (or after it sets)[/FONT][FONT=&quot][7][/FONT][FONT=&quot]which is another way of saying the “visible heliacal rising”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]*****because the Sun rising obliterates the invisible to the eye, heliacal star) [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Gavin White in his book [FONT=&quot]Babylonian Star-Lore[/FONT] proposes the most relevant astronomical feature of ancient times (presumably other than the position of the Sun and Moon) were the stars on the eastern horizon just before dawn[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The modern approach to calibrating the ages using the Vernal Point developed by Hipparchus is incongruous to the original methods of observing the stars and constellations. This incongruity of using the position of the Sun at the vernal equinox as the calibrator for the astrological ages is put into context by Nicholas Campion, who states that in observational astronomy it makes no sense to place the Sun in a constellation or among stars, because whenever the Sun is visible the stars are not.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][10][/FONT][FONT=&quot]Observational astronomy was the astronomy of the ancients.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]****Hipparchus used mathematics to place the VP, because you cannot SEE the backdrop of the stars to correctly point to a helical rising unless you use mathematics…The ancients used visibility.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]In one hour, approximately, fifteen degrees of the ecliptic rises—this is equivalent to half a zodiacal sign. This is the source of the discrepancy between the ages as defined by Hipparchus and the ages based on the ancient visible heliacal method. The difference between the ancient techniques of the heliacal rising zodiacal constellation at the VE compared to the modern VP method is approximately fifteen degrees, half a sign/age or about 1,075 years. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In ancient times, the zodiacal constellations were meant to be read via their visible heliacal position when applied to the astrological ages. The error Hipparchus made in 127 BCE when he inadvertently used the VP in place of the visible heliacal method delayed his ages by approximately 1,075 years.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Therefore according to his interpretation the four Yugas are divided in to the following years,of a Georgian Calendar.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Kali Yuga: The Iron Age[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]A.D. 500 to A.D. 1700 (1,200 years)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Descent into materialism, ignorance, and forgetfulness[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Dwapara Yuga: The Bronze Age[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]A.D. 1700 to A.D. 4100 (2,400 years)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Technological progress, conquest of space[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Treta Yuga: The Silver Age[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]A.D. 4100 to A.D. 8900 (3,600 years)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Telepathy, conquest of time[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Satya Yuga: The Golden Age[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]A.D. 8900 to A.D. 13,700 (4,800 years)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Harmony with nature, human divinity,One with God[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]he finished with this:
[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]we are now on the year 2012, This year is 312th year of Dwapara Yuga,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Sri Yukeswar [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
- Swami Sri Yukteswar Giri
From his book 'The Holy Science'[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
 
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leomoon

Well-known member
Sunday's "Sixty Minutes" had an environmentalist on in their last segment of the show. He said the United States and the rest of the world especially, has been set on improving their lot in life through a material type of growth for the past 7,500 years?



(that part I didn't get).....7,500 years?? :w00t: Of course the U.S. is only a baby barely on the scale of time unless we count the natural native Indians and Atlanteans from another time and space. :alien:


But this is what he said.


He was speaking about both Robert Frost who wrote


  1. The Road Not Taken - Wikipedia

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_Not_Taken_(poem)
    "Then took the other, as just as fair, And having perhaps the better claim, Because it was grassy and wanted wear; Though as for that the passing there Had worn them really about the same, And both that morning equally lay In leaves, no step had trodden black. Oh, I kept the first for another day! Yet knowing how way leads on to way"
His point being, IF we don't make the envioroment the "new way forward" and change our value system, there will be no earth in the future. That IF we do make serious changes, the people coming up 50 years from now will thank us instead of curse us.

The future is in our hands.


***p.s. I still don't know what he meant by 7,500 years, because the Industrial Revolution is only a few hundred years old:
The precise dates are a subject for debate and vary by historian, but the 1760/80s to the 1830/40s are most common, with the developments beginning in Britain and then spreading to the rest of the world, including the United States.


https://www.thoughtco.com/guide-to-the-industrial-revolution-1221914


I found this timeline however:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_human_prehistory


 
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leomoon

Well-known member
You're still focusing on the retrograde-state, sidereal, precessional Ages. :biggrin:

They don't register in the tropical Zodiac.


Having a Sidereal Gemini Rising, I don't focus well.....just sharing saved items for consideration as mentioned.


When I DO focus, it takes a greater deal of effort to make myself do so. But thanks, I do know the difference and have been following as well. :biggrin:
Have been searching my computer (must be in my hard drive from past years), for Astrologer Gene Ray's Tropical Chart for Aquarius, as he had figured it out he said....IF I find it I'll post it later.




Added: Can't find it, my computer is worthless now that I've lost all my original charts! :(



Here is an online Blog however about his calculations:


https://astropost.blogspot.com/2008/06/age-of-aquarius-by-gene-ray.html
 
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leomoon

Well-known member
Let me know please, if Gene Ray's thesis is along the same lines as your own?



https://astropost.blogspot.com/2008/06/age-of-aquarius-by-gene-ray.html



Regulus resides almost exactly at the border of the signs Leo and Virgo, though technically speaking; this star is still within the sign Leo until March 2012. Even though Regulus belongs to the constellation Leo, Regulus passes through all the signs of the zodiac in about 25, 714.285 years. It is very important to realize that Regulus, whatever sign of the Zodiac it is in is in truth the marker for the beginning of a thirty degree section of space that is called Leo. By moving in successive 30 degree arcs you can determine where these 30 degree sections are located. We can call them by the constellation names if we wish and as Astrologers this may be the easiest way to relate. But we must remember that the constellations were merely general markers in the sky and the stars contained within them have no real use in Age measurement because they change within themselves and in relation to each other.


The constellations themselves are of no importance. It is only the relationship between Regulus and the 1st of Aries that has significance in judging an Age, and remember that what we call the 1st of Aries has been located in the arc of space called Pisces for the last 2138 + years. In 2012 this 1st of Aries will actually happen in the space called Aquarius and will take approximately 2,142 years to move on to Capricorn. This of course depends on the idea that there will be no change in motion direction from precession to direct. We can not be sure of this. Remember we are also having a 25,714 year cycle happening at the same time.

AGE OF PISCES
For instance the Age of Pisces began about 131 BCE. It was this year that the Jews were freed from the Syrian yoke. The beginning of the Age of Pisces can be determined by subtracting 2,142.857 years from 2012.
Smyth wrote of it" "The longitude of Regulus has, through successive Ages been made a datum-step by the best astronomers of all nations"

By my calculations an Age is about 2,142.857 years long.
For all the 12 Ages to complete the time is about 25, 714.285 years.
Quoting Professor Harding, the noted Astronomer and Mathematician," the signs of the Zodiac coincided about 300 BCE and before that about 26,000 BCE."

26,000 BCE minus 300 BCE = 25,700 years. So in all those thousands of years his approximate calculation is only 14 years off of my calculation.
The Aquarian Age will begin March 20, 2012 when the longitude of Regulus will be 150 degrees 0 minutes and approximately 4 seconds of arc and then the 30th degree of Aquarius will be on the Earths Ascendant or what will be termed the 1st of Aries. If we wish to know the approximate time of the change of Age of Aries to the Age of Pisces we simply have to doing the subtraction.
2012 - 2,143 (rounded up) = 131 BCE (If the movement of Regulus is constant and of this we are not sure).
 

david starling

Well-known member
Having a Sidereal Gemini Rising, I don't focus well.....just sharing saved items for consideration as mentioned.


When I DO focus, it takes a greater deal of effort to make myself do so. But thanks, I do know the difference and have been following as well. :biggrin:
Have been searching my computer (must be in my hard drive from past years), for Astrologer Gene Ray's Tropical Chart for Aquarius, as he had figured it out he said....IF I find it I'll post it later.

I like what you've shared. No problem with that.

I looked up astrologer Gene Ray, and he wrote that he's heavily involved with a website called Astrologers Forum. Not sure if I should join it or not, to check the reaction to these tropical Ages. I looked through the list of specific topics, and the Ages weren't mentioned.

Also, the two types of astrology mentioned are Vedic and "Western". No mention about Western sidereal (Solunars specialty), so it looks like "Western" is being equated with "tropical".
 
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leomoon

Well-known member
I looked up astrologer Gene Ray, and he wrote that he's heavily involved with a website called Astrologers Forum. Not sure if I should join it or not, to check the reaction to these tropical Ages. I looked through the list of specific topics, and the Ages weren't mentioned.
Its been a few years now, he use to be on astro.com forum too after the Astrologer's Forum (his own site), but he closed it years ago I think....


He may have passed on for all I know....like I said it's been awhile. :surprised: I just recalled how stuck he was on that chart and had it located in Gabon? I think....the Asc. was Regulus?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabon


Ref:
Also, the two types of astrology mentioned are Vedic and "Western". No mention about Western sidereal (Solunars specialty), so it looks like "Western" is being equated with "tropical".
He and I use to "butt heads" on his original forum he started, because he ONLY allowed (I have his chart btw, he's Leo-Regulas ASC )

the EQUAL House charts to be seen or posted
usually. I liked Placidius and still do. He hated that. (eye roll here)



A very "fixed thinker" :) But I liked him enough, except for that little bonus. Regulus Rising, Virgo Sun must be why.
Speaking out of school here.... But even so, I admire people who put that much time and effort into one subject like the Age of Aquarius, (you, him & even Terry McK (Oz) None of you apparently have my Gemini Rising (in Sidereal), scattered ness to contend with.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Well, Gene Ray appears to be a tropicalist working with the same old, retrograde, sidereal Ages as nearly everyone else. He has a different sidereal Age-length by about 6 less years than usual for some reason, and is using Regulus to locate the sidereal Signs, which gives a much earlier start to the Ages than the standard range of Ayanamsas used by actual siderealists.

His Age-indicator is the standard one for the sidereal Zodiac, the Vernal Point. Terry MacKinnell, on the other hand, has a verydifferent Ayanamsa than Gene's, which would give about a 700 years-later start to the sidereal Age of Aquarius than Gene's 2012, if Terry was using the VP itself as the sidereal Age-indicator. Instead, Terry is moving 15 degrees ahead of the VP, and therefore ends up with the sidereal Aquarian Age beginning about 550 years before Gene's start-year of 2012. And, about 1000 years before the start-year of the other siderealists.
 

leomoon

Well-known member
Well, Gene Ray appears to be a tropicalist working with the same old, retrograde, sidereal Ages as nearly everyone else. He has a different sidereal Age-length by about 6 less years than usual for some reason, and is using Regulus to locate the sidereal Signs, which gives a much earlier start to the Ages than the standard range of Ayanamsas used by actual siderealists.

His Age-indicator is the standard one for the sidereal Zodiac, the Vernal Point. Terry MacKinnell, on the other hand, has a verydifferent Ayanamsa than Gene's, which would give about a 700 years-later start to the sidereal Age of Aquarius than Gene's 2012, if Terry was using the VP itself as the sidereal Age-indicator. Instead, Terry is moving 15 degrees ahead of the VP, and therefore ends up with the sidereal Aquarian Age beginning about 550 years before Gene's start-year of 2012. And, about 1000 years before the start-year of the other siderealists.


I added my eternal "admiration" for all 3 of you in my last post and the reasons why.:annoyed: :love:
 

david starling

Well-known member
Its been a few years now, he use to be on astro.com forum too after the Astrologer's Forum (his own site), but he closed it years ago I think....


He may have passed on for all I know....like I said it's been awhile. :surprised: I just recalled how stuck he was on that chart and had it located in Gabon? I think....the Asc. was Regulus?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabon


Ref:
He and I use to "butt heads" on his original forum he started, because he ONLY allowed (I have his chart btw, he's Leo-Regulas ASC )

the EQUAL House charts to be seen or posted
usually. I liked Placidius and still do. He hated that. (eye roll here)



A very "fixed thinker" :) But I liked him enough, except for that little bonus. Regulus Rising, Virgo Sun must be why.
Speaking out of school here.... But even so, I admire people who put that much time and effort into one subject like the Age of Aquarius, (you, him & even Terry McK (Oz) None of you apparently have my Gemini Rising (in Sidereal), scattered ness to contend with.

Not sure if you're using both tropical and sidereal charts for yourself? Is "Leomoon" tropical or sidereal, for example? :unsure:
 

leomoon

Well-known member
Not sure if you're using both tropical and sidereal charts for yourself? Is "Leomoon" tropical or sidereal, for example?
:unsure:

I identify well with both, very well....and always recalled EC (Cayce) saying both charts count, as one is showing us our "in between stages" when the soul moves on and incorporates (much like LOKA explained by certain Vedic astrologer mainly Brahmin per Raman)
incorporated the "energies" that last lifetime afforded them via their own cause and effect. The "effect part" I guess, is Loka, in the in between stages and can be seen by the sidereal Sun-Moon & Ascendant.


Loka is a Sanskrit term meaning "world" or "a particular division of the universe.". The most frequent division of the universe in Hinduism is the tri-loka: Earth, heaven and atmosphere.
What is Loka? - Definition from Yogapedia

www.yogapedia.com/definition/5578/loka





Moon in Leo is widely conj. "Regulus" 2nd house, so means, in Virgo Sidereal chart.


So both charts are important.


I use my Tropical Cancer Rising ordinarily, as that is how others will see and experience me. Cancer Rising in the 21st degree, (a self-undoing) degree btw.
I wear my heart on my sleeve - and get into trouble a lot doing so......


My dear husband (a Libra Sun-Scorpio ASC in the Tropical manner) use to say, "If we are cut do we not bleed?"....That explains well, - I BLEED emotions a lot. :crying:


But I also WRITE and TALK a lot, per Gemini Rising. Thats why I write books in order to have an outlet for emotions too.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
:unsure:

I identify well with both, very well....and always recalled EC (Cayce) saying both charts count, as one is showing us our "in between stages" when the soul moves on and incorporates (much like LOKA explained by certain Vedic astrologer mainly Brahmin per Raman)
incorporated the "energies" that last lifetime afforded them via their own cause and effect. The "effect part" I guess, is Loka, in the in between stages and can be seen by the sidereal Sun-Moon & Ascendant.


Loka is a Sanskrit term meaning "world" or "a particular division of the universe.". The most frequent division of the universe in Hinduism is the tri-loka: Earth, heaven and atmosphere.
What is Loka? - Definition from Yogapedia

www.yogapedia.com/definition/5578/loka





Moon in Leo is widely conj. "Regulus" 2nd house, so means, in Virgo Sidereal chart.


So both charts are important.


I use my Tropical Cancer Rising ordinarily, as that is how others will see and experience me. Cancer Rising in the 21st degree, (a self-undoing) degree btw.
I wear my heart on my sleeve - and get into trouble a lot doing so......


My dear husband (a Libra Sun-Scorpio ASC in the Tropical manner) use to say, "If we are cut do we not bleed?"....That explains well, - I BLEED emotions a lot. :crying:


But I also WRITE and TALK a lot, per Gemini Rising. Thats why I write books in order to have an outlet for emotions too.

I'm impressed that you write books! :biggrin:

Wouldn't sidereal Virgo be tropical Libra? But, Vedic is different when it comes to the Moon. For example, I have Moon in mid tropical Aquarius, which would be Cap in Western siderealism. But, in Vedic, it stays in Aqua.
 
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leomoon

Well-known member
I don't know GeneRay, unless it is the guy that also went by Ray and getting banned with semi regularity.:pouty:

I will do some reading and come back.




No Opal, he was widely respected by most...if not all. Not controversial like me!


:happy:
 

leomoon

Well-known member
ref:
I'm impressed that you write books! :biggrin:
Wouldn't sidereal Virgo be tropical Libra? But, Vedic is different when it comes to the Moon. For example, I have Moon in mid tropical Aquarius, which would be Cap in Western siderealism. But, in Vedic, it stays in Aqua.
It all started as a way and means to channel the excess emotional energy I was having. Like a rolling stone, down a hill I suppose from there. That doesn't mean they are all "quality" either. :surprised: Some are primary astrology, others like "Regulus & the Generals", a study I had worked on for some time, always having been interested in Civil War history & movies of the Civil War (like upcoming "Grant" on the History Channel will be) :love: Very likely, I lived back then.This was back when even Darkstar (Jamie) hadn't yet started his Fixed Star blog which has certainly grown quite a bit, and he thought it was a good idea when I explained my idea of Regulus and leadership, so I continued it into a book of accumulated charts on Generals.


This was also before Bernadette Brady decided that perhaps she'd write about the fixed stars in relation to using them in conjunctions and oppositions....back then she only promoted Parans.
So a lot has changed since then.


My most pent-up emotions were put into a biography about my daughter and her death about 3-4 yrs after she passed.



I enjoyed very much writing my Essenes book ("Edgar Cayce on Biblical Reincarnations and the Essenes"- quite a mouthful! (the research that went into it,etc) and since about Edgar Cayce and his info, not everyone's cup o'tea (not at all a scholarly book) I'm currently done (did it 5 years ago), but reincarnated my book for Terrorism, as I didn't see another out there since I put it aside 4-5 yrs ago on Astrology & Terrorism ...A LOT more had to be added since then. I hope my editor, :lol: (husband) is up to the task, he complains constantly about my writing, and "disorganization". ....But then again, he did on the Essenes and others too. :andy: We actually have exactly opposite charts AND our Sun' squares each other's.



I've since slowed down quite a bit. I used up my energy I suppose, in between forum posts. :bandit:


Vedic Sidereal Chart is here:


You were correct David, (good eye) - I was thinking in the reverse again.- IF it were a Virgo Moon, I'd NEVER have so many errors from sloppy writing. NEVER! :)

Actually Moon stays in Leo at 02°
This was during my 1st replacement knee surgery (another will be done in 2 days this Wed.) Keep me in your good thoughts....guys!
SN will be over my 6th house BML & Mercury (trop) for the new chart operation on other knee. "going back"


 
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david starling

Well-known member
Wouldn't sidereal Virgo be tropical Libra? But, Vedic is different when it comes to the Moon. For example, I have Moon in mid tropical Aquarius, which would be Cap in Western siderealism. But, in Vedic, it stays in Aqua.



It all started as a way and means to channel the excess emotional energy I was having. Like a rolling stone, down a hill I suppose from there. That doesn't mean they are all "quality" either. :surprised: Some are primary astrology, others like "Regulus & the Generals", a study I had worked on for some time, always having been interested in Civil War history & movies of the Civil War (like upcoming "Grant" on the History Channel will be) :love: Very likely, I lived back then.This was back when even Darkstar (Jamie) hadn't yet started his Fixed Star blog which has certainly grown quite a bit, and he thought it was a good idea when I explained my idea of Regulus and leadership, so I continued it into a book of accumulated charts on Generals.


This was also before Bernadette Brady decided that perhaps she'd write about the fixed stars in relation to using them in conjunctions and oppositions....back then she only promoted Parans.
So a lot has changed since then.


My most emotions were put into a biography about my daughter and her death about 3-4 yrs after she passed.



I enjoyed very much writing my Essenes book ("Edgar Cayce on Biblical Reincarnations and the Essenes"- quite a mouthful! (the research that went into it,etc) and since about Edgar Cayce and his info, not everyone's cup o'tea (not at all a scholarly book) I'm currently done (did it 5 years ago), but reincarnated my book for Terrorism, as I didn't see another out there since I put it aside 4-5 yrs ago on Astrology & Terrorism ...A LOT more had to be added since then. I hope my editor, :lol: (husband) is up to the task, he complains constantly about my writing, and "disorganization". ....But then again, he did on the Essenes and others too. :andy: We actually have exactly opposite charts AND our Sun' squares each other's.



I've since slowed down quite a bit. I used up my energy I suppose, in between forum posts. :bandit:


Vedic Sidereal Chart is here:


You were correct David, (good eye) - I was thinking in the reverse again.-

Actually Moon stays in Leo at 02°
This was during my 1st replacement knee surgery (another will be done in 2 days this Wed.) Keep me in your good thoughts....guys!
SN will be over my 6th house BML & Mercury (trop) for the new chart operation on other knee. "going back"



You'll be jumping rope and playing soccer again in no time! :biggrin:
 

leomoon

Well-known member
You'll be jumping rope and playing soccer again in no time!





Ha Ha Ha, haven't had that much fun since grade school! I know I can't bend at all now. Need a back operation says my doctor, but that "ain't gonna happen" No way, no how!:w00t:


This should help, perhaps even straightening up could help the 70 plus year scoliosis.


http://www.internationalastrologers.com/anatomical_aries.htm
From anatomical medical degrees for ALL signs:

For my Sun & Mars (17:55- 19°Capricorn) 6th -

(sometimes, it may be your Mars or even Mercury)
Capricorn 17
Left Knotty Protruberance


Capricorn 18
Right Ligament Knee


Capricorn 19
Left Ligament Knee


and yes, I even have the "left knotty protruberance" lol - I asked the surgeon about it and he said, "its just water on the knee making the adjustment for lack of ?) "
 
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