Why is she so emotionally unstable and self-destructive? How can I help her?

anjelik

Well-known member
I have a friend who is severely emotionally unstable. She is constantly depressed, changing medications, her weight fluctuates to extremes, she makes poor choices with men and ends up being treated badly. I think it has to do with all of her moon aspects. I have told her that I think she gets very emotionally overwhelmed (moon opposite Pluto) and doesn't know where to begin to fix things. I really want to help her and have tried endless times by offering help and advice, but it's like she doesn't want to take it or know where to start.

How do I help this person? I guess this is my Pisces Sun coming out, because I just cannot watch someone with self-destructive tendencies go on like this.

Thanks for your help!
 

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Vista

Well-known member
Please white out the remainder of her birth information.

She has Uranus sitting right on her ASC opposing her DESC and making no major aspects to any other planet in her natal chart. She might come off as unstable or erratic and in most ways she really likes having her freedom despite having Sun is placed inside the 12th in Scorpio and Scorpio rising, she might have not come to terms with her own need for freedom verses intimacy and could be projecting freedom needs onto the men she dates. For this reason, she likes men who are unavailable in some way or another(emotionally, physically through distance, or they are in another relationship)or she doesn't want the men who want her. With the Opposition from her Moon to Mer, Jupiter and Pluto, she will have to deal with fluctuations in her emotions/moods. Somehow she will have to find a way to balance everything.

Edit: Also, with all the Scorpio placements Sun, Mer, Uranus, and ASC, she will be very fixed and stubborn and once she gets an idea inside her head, there is no way to change her mind. On the flip side, she should have deep reserves of willpower IF she puts her mind to something. Hopefully she will make the necessary changes.

I have a friend who is severely emotionally unstable. She is constantly depressed, changing medications, her weight fluctuates to extremes, she makes poor choices with men and ends up being treated badly. I think it has to do with all of her moon aspects. I have told her that I think she gets very emotionally overwhelmed (moon opposite Pluto) and doesn't know where to begin to fix things. I really want to help her and have tried endless times by offering help and advice, but it's like she doesn't want to take it or know where to start.

How do I help this person? I guess this is my Pisces Sun coming out, because I just cannot watch someone with self-destructive tendencies go on like this.

Thanks for your help!
 
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anjelik

Well-known member
Please white out the remainder of her birth information.

She has Uranus sitting right on her ASC opposing her DESC and making no major aspects to any other planet in her natal chart. She might come off as unstable or erratic and in most ways she really likes having her freedom despite having Sun is placed inside the 12th in Scorpio and Scorpio rising, she might have not come to terms with her own need for freedom verses intimacy and could be projecting freedom needs onto the men she dates. For this reason, she likes men who are unavailable in some way or another(emotionally, physically through distance, or they are in another relationship)or she doesn't want the men who want her. With the Opposition from her Moon to Mer, Jupiter and Pluto, she will have to deal with fluctuations in her emotions/moods. Somehow she will have to find a way to balance everything.

Edit: Also, with all the Scorpio placements Sun, Mer, Uranus, and ASC, she will be very fixed and stubborn and once she gets an idea inside her head, there is no way to change her mind. On the flip side, she should have deep reserves of willpower IF she puts her mind to something. Hopefully she will make the necessary changes.

I cropped out the birth info. Thanks for this. That sounds about right for her. She ends up dating men who are emotionally unavailable. Ones who can't really give her what she needs, or thinks she needs. I think she feels she should want what everyone else wants, and perhaps she feels internal conflict. I don't have emotional needs like everyone else and I am aware that I like my freedom. Is she similar in that respect, but just unaware of what she wants and what she projects? I think she projects someone with low self esteem who will put up with anyone and that is why she ends up with men who use her or just treat her like sh!t.

The part that concerns me most is her emotional state. I think if she felt better about herself then she would attract better partners. Her weight fluctuates like 70lbs - since I've known her she has lost and gained so many times, I can't even keep track. Now she is trying the Paleo diet and before when Kate Middleton was a skeleton for the Royal Wedding she embarked on the Dukan diet. She lost 50lbs, but I saw her do that with Atkins too. I think she needs to learn how to do things in moderation. Is there something in her chart which indicates extremity? I told her I think Paleo is a bad idea because once she falls off the wagon she will just gain it back again. She is not a health nut, so it's not like she would adopt the Paleo lifestyle. She will still drink and just uses these diets as a means for dramatic weight loss and then she packs it right back on again.. so then she ends up depressed all over again.
 

mdinaz

Well-known member
As usual I would need to see the other asteroids and vertex. But with what you have there Sun is in 12th house which is typical of an absent father (physically, emotionally) and is opposite her Chiron, with Juno on the ASC. With an absent male father figure, there is deep emotional pain resulting from that, and she merely recreates the situation with her partners - equally emotionally and physically absent, thus perpetuating the pain. Juno on the ASC means she continually gives up all her power to the outside world, so is the continual victim ("not my fault, it's blah's fault this happens to me"). Moon is also quincunx the ASC as well as Uranus and opposite Pluto so there is much emotional angst, negative thoughts, and outside-world influenced negative emotions going on. First step is to deal with the daddy issues, second step is to get a handle on the emotions, 3rd step is to not allow the outside world have such an influence as the outside world is merely a reflection of the inside world. She's got some major work to do.
 

Vista

Well-known member
Her ASC/Sun ruler Pluto(Modern ruler) is conjunct Jupiter - there's the weight issue. Also, Uranus conjunct the ASC will give her the erratic or extreme behavior along with the Mer/Jupiter/Pluto conjunction. Sun in the 12th is hidden matters and the opposition from Moon to Mer, Jupiter and Pluto, points to her weight as an emotional issue and one that makes her feel pretty badly. Once she gets her emotional problems under control, her weight problems would likely even out not to say she would not have to watch it as she will have a tendency to gain easily, it's very obvious an emotional thing. Was she chunky as a child and made to very unworthy by her parent(mom)? There could be something there. Diets don't work as you probably know it's a lifestyle change that she is not willing to make. I have a friend who is Scorpio rising with her Moon/Neptune conjunct, I can't tell her anything about diets, she always tries new one's and no matter how much I tell her it will destroy her metabolism and she will gain it all back, she ignores and continues to do it.

I cropped out the birth info. Thanks for this. That sounds about right for her. She ends up dating men who are emotionally unavailable. Ones who can't really give her what she needs, or thinks she needs. I think she feels she should want what everyone else wants, and perhaps she feels internal conflict. I don't have emotional needs like everyone else and I am aware that I like my freedom. Is she similar in that respect, but just unaware of what she wants and what she projects? I think she projects someone with low self esteem who will put up with anyone and that is why she ends up with men who use her or just treat her like sh!t.

The part that concerns me most is her emotional state. I think if she felt better about herself then she would attract better partners. Her weight fluctuates like 70lbs - since I've known her she has lost and gained so many times, I can't even keep track. Now she is trying the Paleo diet and before when Kate Middleton was a skeleton for the Royal Wedding she embarked on the Dukan diet. She lost 50lbs, but I saw her do that with Atkins too. I think she needs to learn how to do things in moderation. Is there something in her chart which indicates extremity? I told her I think Paleo is a bad idea because once she falls off the wagon she will just gain it back again. She is not a health nut, so it's not like she would adopt the Paleo lifestyle. She will still drink and just uses these diets as a means for dramatic weight loss and then she packs it right back on again.. so then she ends up depressed all over again.
 

anjelik

Well-known member
As usual I would need to see the other asteroids and vertex. But with what you have there Sun is in 12th house which is typical of an absent father (physically, emotionally) and is opposite her Chiron, with Juno on the ASC. With an absent male father figure, there is deep emotional pain resulting from that, and she merely recreates the situation with her partners - equally emotionally and physically absent, thus perpetuating the pain. Juno on the ASC means she continually gives up all her power to the outside world, so is the continual victim ("not my fault, it's blah's fault this happens to me"). Moon is also quincunx the ASC as well as Uranus and opposite Pluto so there is much emotional angst, negative thoughts, and outside-world influenced negative emotions going on. First step is to deal with the daddy issues, second step is to get a handle on the emotions, 3rd step is to not allow the outside world have such an influence as the outside world is merely a reflection of the inside world. She's got some major work to do.

I have only known her about 5 years, but she is closer to her father than her mother and always has been by what she has described to me. Could the issues be with her mom and not dad?

The not taking responsibility and displacing blame does 100% sound like her.

I do think she has major work to do also. I've told her taking pills isn't going to fix her problems. She needs therapy.

What asteroids do you need??

Thank you for this!
 

anjelik

Well-known member
Her ASC/Sun ruler Pluto(Modern ruler) is conjunct Jupiter - there's the weight issue. Also, Uranus conjunct the ASC will give her the erratic or extreme behavior along with the Mer/Jupiter/Pluto conjunction. Sun in the 12th is hidden matters and the opposition from Moon to Mer, Jupiter and Pluto, points to her weight as an emotional issue and one that makes her feel pretty badly. Once she gets her emotional problems under control, her weight problems would likely even out not to say she would not have to watch it as she will have a tendency to gain easily, it's very obvious an emotional thing. Was she chunky as a child and made to very unworthy by her parent(mom)? There could be something there. Diets don't work as you probably know it's a lifestyle change that she is not willing to make. I have a friend who is Scorpio rising with her Moon/Neptune conjunct, I can't tell her anything about diets, she always tries new one's and no matter how much I tell her it will destroy her metabolism and she will gain it all back, she ignores and continues to do it.

I think she was always heavy. Her sister was also, but she lost over 100lbs and now dyes her hair platinum blonde and is very vain. I know this bothers her. Her family seems very disconnected and everyone seems very into themselves and selfish. She is the one who is always trying to help others, or so that is what she makes it seem like to me. It could be just what she wants me to believe though.

She asked me why I was being a hater on the Paleo diet because I said if you wanted to eat as similar to the early man perhaps you should be dumpster diving and eating spoiled meat, because the reality is that the early man was a hunter gatherer, which is just a nice term for scavenger. Also, we have evolved enough to be able to tolerate lactose as a form of survival, so why not just eat in moderation? When I pointed out that her blue eyes are a genetic mutation that clearly separates her from the "cave man," she shut down and said she had to go. Perhaps I am a little too aggressive, but it's just annoying to see her trying a new diet! She will lose the weight.. but it will come back. She also needs to just accept her body for what it is. She is a curvy woman and will never be stick thin. She has very large breasts and a curvy figure. There has to come a day when you realize you will never be a size 4 if you are not built to be that small! You can't even have a normal meal with her because she's always on some weird diet. So then she refuses to eat and just drinks and ends up being a hot mess. I don't see why she doesn't see what everyone else does. It's frustrating and I really want to help her because she is a very intelligent and extremely compassionate person.
 

mdinaz

Well-known member
Yes, it could be the mother also, whomever the dominant parent is, or any dominant figure from child hood. My ex was similar to that - her father was always there but it was her mother who was emotionally absent, and this has reflected in all her relationships in life (not just partners) in which she (the ex) is always emotionally absent and detached and unable to relate to anyone, partners, children, family members, etc. I was always trying to emotionally engage her in the beginning but became detached because of her behavior (my failing but that is how I reacted to it at the time). Her partners that she has selected since then fit that mold.

Asteroids - pallas juno ceres vesta and the vertex
 

Tessie

Banned
She needs to just accept her body for what it is. She is a curvy woman and will never be stick thin. She has very large breasts and a curvy figure. There has to come a day when you realize you will never be a size 4 if you are not built to be that small! You can't even have a normal meal with her because she's always on some weird diet. So then she refuses to eat and just drinks and ends up being a hot mess. I don't see why she doesn't see what everyone else does. It's frustrating and I really want to help her because she is a very intelligent and extremely compassionate person.

I dont think that her body is the key issue here. She has an abnormal relationship with food and she has an abnormal relationship with herself. What I mean is, that she lacks self-esteem and is engaging in behaviours that help her to avoid looking in and fixing that.

Food is immeasurably important as a fuel. If she keeps yo-yo dieting, gaining and losing, via unhealthy methods and at relatively fast paces, she will give herself thyroid problems and will find it impossible to lose any weight after that. She needs to find a healthy diet that is easiest for her to upkeep and stick to. It may be simple calorie counting, so that if she eats more one day, she can cut back the next day and continue as normal instead of falling back into this eating disorder (which it is).

Unhealthy relationships are another way of indulgent self-sabotage that is only damaging. If she is unhealthy in herself, her mind, even if she finds a super good guy, she will have nothing to offer long term him because she is unable to love herself in a healthy way.

Vis-a-vis the pills, they could be even contributing to this problem of not facing up to reality. That is kind of the point of anti-depressants. But coming off them, espcially if done too quickly, could make her feel worse unless she has in place a psychologist to work with who will ensure that she faces up to her insecurities increasingly and safely as her abilities progress.

In terms of what you can do to help her. It sounds as though there is nothing that you can do because her problems are just that deep and are not of the sort that are fixed by advice and definately not by criticism. She has to want to change (from the inside). When that happens, she has to do a lot of research and find a really good therapist.

Personally, I think she sounds as though she has Borderline Personality tendencies, which include problems with self, instability, and engaging in these reckless behaviours impulsively. The only therapy that has proven really effective for these symptoms is not drugs but Dialectical Behaviour Therapy, which works on understanding and curbing these impulsive behaviours. However, she may benefit initially from psychodynamic psychotherapy just to purge from her subconscious all of the ways in which her family and perhaps relationships have damaged her. Often we repress what is most hurtful for us to live through, but when things are supressed they come out in uglier ways. It is most recommended that she tries to purge the past and get it over and done with.

She does not like herself. If it was my friend, I would write a sensitive letter explaining how precious and talented she is, and that I am watching her abuse her body and there is a reason. I would gently encourage that she looks into tackling this repeated occurence in order to live up to her full and amazing potential. Recommend the therapy, offer to go with.

She is obv. willing to try therapy if she is willing to pop pills. Only the pills are not the correct type of therapy for her and I doubt they mix well with alcohol. Good luck to you in helping your friend, gently, because recovering will certainly take her years and only if she is willing.
 
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mdinaz

Well-known member
Re: food - fat is just emotional protection. The skin is the largest emotional surface of the body, which protects us from the cold cruel world. People with fat problems are just piling on emotional protection. Where that fat is added indicates where the problems lie. The fatter I am the farther away you are - protection. On women, fat just on the bottom and upper thighs but slim everywhere else indicates father/male issues. For men "love handles" protect against criticism from women we are involved with, big gut is protection against the harshness of surviving life (business, work, providing for family), etc.
 

anjelik

Well-known member
Thanks everyone. I do think she needs some sort of behavioral therapy, but when I do suggest that she makes up excuses as to why she cannot afford it. Yet she can smoke cigarettes and go out for drinks. When I say, "that is your therapy money." She shuts down again. I think too many people enable her, which is also frustrating for me. I won't go out drinking with her, but I will go and get dinner or something where food is involved. If she wants to order a drink, that's her choice, but I don't make it just about alcohol. She texted me last week that she did coke and all of this ridiculous stuff. I was thinking, ummmm you're 32.. grow up. The sad part is that other people know she has problems and yet they still will do these things with her. My boyfriend had to un-follow her on Facebook because he says, "she is the most depressing person with her updates." He wanted to de-friend her but I asked him to please not to because if she noticed she might get upset! Last night she was texting me about how she will be alone forever and she is never trusting anyone again so I said to her something along the lines of maybe you should make people earn their trust. So don't trust until it is earned instead of trusting until they prove they didn't deserve it. I sometimes feel like I waste my breath.. but I still can't help but want to help her!

Here is her chart with the asteroids.
 

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anjelik

Well-known member
Re: food - fat is just emotional protection. The skin is the largest emotional surface of the body, which protects us from the cold cruel world. People with fat problems are just piling on emotional protection. Where that fat is added indicates where the problems lie. The fatter I am the farther away you are - protection. On women, fat just on the bottom and upper thighs but slim everywhere else indicates father/male issues. For men "love handles" protect against criticism from women we are involved with, big gut is protection against the harshness of surviving life (business, work, providing for family), etc.

I can see that. When I am stressed, I gain weight in my gut. Usually work and life in general stress me out (haha), especially with my Moon / Uranus opposition. But I recognize when I am starting to feel bad and I take a step back. If I am stuffing my face (as I mentioned in a post about a month ago), I will make a concerted effort to change my behavior. I signed myself for pilates classes twice a week through May. So I am all set on my schedule, no excuses. Since doing that, my eye floaters and headaches have mostly gone away and I've lost most of the excess bloat. I also refuse to buy a bigger size pants so when my pants are tight it's like, hmmm better stop eating or you will have nothing to wear. But it also makes me realize that I am doing something different than usual and then I change my behavior. I don't know if it's healthy, but it works for me and I don't go through extremes like my friend (except around the holidays when I stuff myself to death).
 

mdinaz

Well-known member
Vesta is exactly semisquare Venus to the minute and opposite chiron to within a few minutes. Venus in the 2nd shows that a sense of safety and security are very important, and that peaceful surroundings are important. Vesta is where we put energy into the Universe for manifestation as our reality, influenced by thoughts and beliefs. With Venus in the house of beliefs and moral, her ideas about reality are rigid (capricorn) and based on sensual and sexual input (trine mars), but with the exact semisquare to Vesta, she inputs a lot of negativity and erroneous beliefs into her Vesta. These manifest at the Vertex, which is square Saturn (which rules the 2nd and Venus) and trine Vesta and the Sun. It is very very easy for her to manifest negative realities and will be a very difficult cycle to break. The node is also trine Vesta so this is part of her life path, learning to manage and control and shape her thoughts and beliefs and come to the realization that she creates all this herself. With the Venus trine Mars she will be very focused on material/physical things which lead her astray. Mars is in the MC so she thinks this is the path she should follow as it occasionally works and provides physical satisfaction. But Mars is semisquare Pluto so ultimately it never does and she is constantly reminded of her failures in dramatic ways. Because she is so influenced by the outside physical world this all feeds into her Vesta conjunct the ASC and the process begins anew. It is going to take major spiritual and emotional energy to break out of this cycle, meaning she will have to hit rock bottom before anything will change. As long as people enable her it likely won't happen until something very serious occurs.

Edit: forgot to add that with Vesta opposite Chiron, her emotional pain is the biggest feeder into Vesta - everytime things go wrong, she feeds that pain into Vesta which just recreates the situations that originally started it. A perfectly aligned mirror.
 
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Ebenia

Well-known member
I think the main issue is Uranus on her Asc inconjunct her Moon. This makes the emotional life very hazardous and erratic, ups and downs and jolts of emotions. In this she needs to learn how to be okey with her body and the world and other people as they are and instead of reacting she needs to learn to respect her body and other people and other peoples way of being. She might needs space but she needs to give space to other people too to be themselves. When she starts accepting her self on a deeper level, the easier it is for her to accept other people, including her mother and her sister and her life will get so much better.

Her North Node is in Cancer in 8th house, so I think that she really needs to learn how to NURTURE. What is true nurturing emotionally, physically, mentally, psychologically? She would definitely benefit from therapy with this aspect. She has Venus in Capricorn in 2nd house, so if she gets into it, she can really become a great cook that is conscious (Capricorn) what goes into the food and that it is good quality (Capricorn is all about QUALITY of things). So she might actually go on a health kick at some point in her life to learn how to nurture the body

When she is able to find that nurturing, softer side of her and other people, she will naturally find more stability in her personality and her emotions calm down. This will also bring out the best aspects of her Uranian nature, being fun, eccentric, creative and a bit odd freedomlover. :)
 
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anjelik

Well-known member
Vesta is exactly semisquare Venus to the minute and opposite chiron to within a few minutes. Venus in the 2nd shows that a sense of safety and security are very important, and that peaceful surroundings are important. Vesta is where we put energy into the Universe for manifestation as our reality, influenced by thoughts and beliefs. With Venus in the house of beliefs and moral, her ideas about reality are rigid (capricorn) and based on sensual and sexual input (trine mars), but with the exact semisquare to Vesta, she inputs a lot of negativity and erroneous beliefs into her Vesta. These manifest at the Vertex, which is square Saturn (which rules the 2nd and Venus) and trine Vesta and the Sun. It is very very easy for her to manifest negative realities and will be a very difficult cycle to break. The node is also trine Vesta so this is part of her life path, learning to manage and control and shape her thoughts and beliefs and come to the realization that she creates all this herself. With the Venus trine Mars she will be very focused on material/physical things which lead her astray. Mars is in the MC so she thinks this is the path she should follow as it occasionally works and provides physical satisfaction. But Mars is semisquare Pluto so ultimately it never does and she is constantly reminded of her failures in dramatic ways. Because she is so influenced by the outside physical world this all feeds into her Vesta conjunct the ASC and the process begins anew. It is going to take major spiritual and emotional energy to break out of this cycle, meaning she will have to hit rock bottom before anything will change. As long as people enable her it likely won't happen until something very serious occurs.

Edit: forgot to add that with Vesta opposite Chiron, her emotional pain is the biggest feeder into Vesta - everytime things go wrong, she feeds that pain into Vesta which just recreates the situations that originally started it. A perfectly aligned mirror.

If she hasn't hit rock bottom yet, I'm afraid what it looks like. If this were me, I would have been 7 levels below the surface by now. Last December I contacted her sister on Facebook because my friend was on a bender where she said she hadn't slept for days, she sounded completely drunk and on drugs and I asked her if she was doing drugs and she said no. Her sister immediately called me and asked if I could go check on her. I told her no because I would admit her to a psychiatric center if it were up to me. What ended up happening was that her parents came to rescue her and had her stomach pumped. Nothing more was spoken of the subject, though she was mad at me for a few months. I told her I did it for her safety. There was another time a few years prior where her and I went to happy hour with another friend. He left and so it was just her and I. She suddenly went from normal to TRASHED and I thought that was peculiar since we had the same amount to drink. I went to the bathroom, came back and she was gone but her credit card and receipt were there and signed. I asked the waiter where she went and he said he thought she went to smoke a cigarette..she was not outside so I thought maybe she decided to just leave because she was so drunk. I walked home (I lived about 10 mins from the wine bar) and my phone rang with her number on it. So I answered and it was an Australian girl saying, "Ummm hi we have your friend...." Apparently they found her sleeping on the sidewalk in the middle of February in NYC on some ice. She was pretty heavy at that point so it took three of us to lift her into a cab because she was sleeping and dead weight. I woke her up and made her drink water and fed her some pizza and put her on my couch. Apparently these Aussies also called her parents and didn't tell me. They ended up calling her 60something times (but the phone was on silent in her purse) and drove around looking for her. Her parents didn't think to intervene on her drinking then either. I recall suggesting she quit drinking and go to AA then, but her response was, "yeah, I am going to just take it easy for a while and not drink." Not, I agree, I have a problem. She was back drinking like 6 weeks later.

She is destructive, she will go home with anyone who will hook up with her. And then gets upset when it goes nowhere. It's like watching a train wreck, and I know she knows how I feel about the behavior so she doesn't even ask me to go out with her anymore because she knows I won't let this kind of stuff go on in my presence.

I think the main issue is Uranus on her Asc inconjunct her Moon. This makes the emotional life very hazardous and erratic, ups and downs and jolts of emotions. In this she needs to learn how to be okey with her body and the world and other people as they are and instead of reacting she needs to learn to respect her body and other people and other peoples way of being. She might needs space but she needs to give space to other people too to be themselves. When she starts accepting her self on a deeper level, the easier it is for her to accept other people, including her mother and her sister and her life will get so much better.

Her North Node is in Cancer in 8th house, so I think that she really needs to learn how to NURTURE. What is true nurturing emotionally, physically, mentally, psychologically? She would definitely benefit from therapy with this aspect. She has Venus in Capricorn in 2nd house, so if she gets into it, she can really become a great cook that is conscious (Capricorn) what goes into the food and that it is good quality (Capricorn is all about QUALITY of things). So she might actually go on a health kick at some point in her life to learn how to nurture the body

When she is able to find that nurturing, softer side of her and other people, she will naturally find more stability in her personality and her emotions calm down. This will also bring out the best aspects of her Uranian nature, being fun, eccentric, creative and a bit odd freedomlover. :)

She is a fantastic cook. She makes such yummy things.. even when they are healthy. I tell her all the time if she was my neighbor I would just buy all the groceries and have her make us food because she loves cooking and I don't particularly love it haha!
 
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Ebenia

Well-known member
She is a fantastic cook. She makes such yummy things.. even when they are healthy. I tell her all the time if she was my neighbor I would just buy all the groceries and have her make us food because she loves cooking and I don't particularly love it haha!

That is interesting, since her 6th and 11th house are ruled by Venus, it is possible that cooking or something related to Venusian themes becomes her profession and her money comes to her through those means.
 
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