Astrology of Surgeons

bubuza_dulce

Well-known member
I'm very interested in finding what are the main indicators in someone's chart in order to be a successful surgeon.
And even if we can not find some "rules" about it, I would like to discuss some charts of good (and famous or not) surgeons. I'm willing to put some surgeons' charts (I'll erase all of their personal data) and I'd like to discuss about them.

What do you say? Would you like that?

If there's another thread about it I'd like to know and follow on that one, I found only a thread about physicians in general.

Thanks in advance for your ideas, I hope it'll be interesting!:biggrin:
(BTW, for the charts that I have in mind I don't know the hour of birth so there would be some things we could not rely on.)
 

waybread

Well-known member
If you go to the Astro-DataBank at Astrodienst (www.astro.com) and search "surgeon" you can pull up dozens of charts of surgeons.

Mars rules surgeons and surgery. I would think that surgeons' Mars would stand out in some way. Also look for a focus on the life-death 8th house, Scorpio (traditionally ruled by Mars), or moon-Pluto, or a strong 6th house (health, service.)

Mercury rules the hands, so hopefully a surgeon has a strong Mercury, as well.

Generally there is no one signature for professions that works all of the time, however.
 

Claire19

Well-known member
I'm very interested in finding what are the main indicators in someone's chart in order to be a successful surgeon.
And even if we can not find some "rules" about it, I would like to discuss some charts of good (and famous or not) surgeons. I'm willing to put some surgeons' charts (I'll erase all of their personal data) and I'd like to discuss about them.

What do you say? Would you like that?

If there's another thread about it I'd like to know and follow on that one, I found only a thread about physicians in general.

Thanks in advance for your ideas, I hope it'll be interesting!:biggrin:
(BTW, for the charts that I have in mind I don't know the hour of birth so there would be some things we could not rely on.)
dont bother loading charts without time of birth. It is rather pointless. Plenty of data online with accurate charts.

I did Dr Christiaan Barnard last year, the famous heart surgeon. I still have that chart.
 

Claire19

Well-known member
If you go to the Astro-DataBank at Astrodienst (www.astro.com) and search "surgeon" you can pull up dozens of charts of surgeons.

Mars rules surgeons and surgery. I would think that surgeons' Mars would stand out in some way. Also look for a focus on the life-death 8th house, Scorpio (traditionally ruled by Mars), or moon-Pluto, or a strong 6th house (health, service.)

Mercury rules the hands, so hopefully a surgeon has a strong Mercury, as well.

Generally there is no one signature for professions that works all of the time, however.[/QUOTE
Mars in the 10th, 6th ruled by Aries. Many different combos. Surgeons also can be involved with the 12th house of rehabilitation, hospitals etc.
 

bubuza_dulce

Well-known member
Thanks for your answers Claire19 and Waybread.
I was more interested in analysing the charts of some people I know and who are very good surgeons but I couldn't ask their birth hour.
The surgeons in Astro Data Bank are really famous ones. I was more interested in how can someone do it without necessarily being world famous.
And looking at some charts (I looked at 15) I found things in common and they don't necessarily have to do with Mars (but with Venus for example).
I am more interested in viewing literally by seeing people's charts what are the patterns rather than being set to find a certain Mars for example. And I thought it would be even more successful if I'd do it on a forum rather than alone (I'll do it anyway!:biggrin:).
 

Caro

Well-known member
You can also break down into specialities.
for instance Im sure I read that a dominant cancer emphasis can suggest a gynaecologist. (Parker astrology) Id need to check out the reference.
 

bubuza_dulce

Well-known member
You can also break down into specialities.
for instance Im sure I read that a dominant cancer emphasis can suggest a gynaecologist. (Parker astrology) Id need to check out the reference.

Thanks, Caro, I'll talk about their specialities. I haven't read in-depth medical astrology and I know only partly about what sign rules what but that's something I want to learn.

So here it goes!

The first chart belongs to a very good general surgeon, teacher, head of hospital. Unfortunately he died.
(General surgery meaning mostly abdominal surgery, liver for example - and he died of a liver disease).
I noticed the close conjunction Mars-Pluto in Virgo, the apex of a kite (if we consider Chiron).
He was a very impressive presence (some people feared him!),was a very good story-teller, had read a lot of literature and was very good of telling jokes.
His above-average knowing of books made me think of that Venus in Gemini, the joke telling of all the placements in Leo and the story-telling maybe it had to do with his Sun/Mercury in Cancer.
His Mercury (fingers) has very good aspects with Mars/Pluto!


I posted Chiron aspects because I've seen they're important many times.

Also Lilith seems to be in the middle of things in many charts and that is something I don't always see. I've read about how between the corrected and uncorrected Lilith there's some sort of canal that changes the expression of the planets caught in-between or challenges it somehow. I didn't put all the Liliths as it would make the chart harder to read. But for example in all of my friends' charts only one has really close Lilith conjunction (so it might appear relevant at a point).
 

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bubuza_dulce

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Chart no. 2.
Female, 35, plastic surgery. Has had a lot of help from her parents (they both are surgeons) who helped her even literally, operating with her on the same team. Though young has accomplished much receiving all the help she could get from her family.

I noticed the Kite with a Grand Fire Trine and the apex on Pluto (again).
She operates a lot on the face (Aries) with very good results.

Her Mercury (fingers) has rather stressful aspects and her Mars is in Pisces.
But I guess that Kite can compensate for other things she may be lacking.

Her Moon is in Capricorn (or Aquarius) and Venus in Aries. And, if you keep that in mind, you'll see that in other charts this is something that keeps appearing!:tongue: It's not about whether they could practice surgery but about what they enjoy doing! (the first chart looks more like an exception, the rest I've seen don't have Venus in Gemini)
 

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bubuza_dulce

Well-known member
Chart no. 3

Male, 59, general surgery, liver transplant surgery.
Is more than successful! A great authority in the field, with many specialisation degrees recognised world-wide, head of hospitals, director of surgical societies, very rich :tongue:, involved in politics, professor etc.

And he has a Grand Cross! :lol: (considering Chiron, of course)
Venus, Mercury in Aries, Mars conjunct Jupiter in Taurus, Mars squares Pluto (everyone gets out of his way when he's angry), the rest you can see there.

I noticed that tensions seem to "do good" to surgeons. I haven't seen yet one with a relaxed chart.
Also, none of them care for retrograde planets! :happy: I used to consider them as something that hinders success (seeing a lot of them at friends with "sad" lives) but it appears it depends on how they're used.

I really feel good looking at successful people's charts and seeing a lot of tension! That makes me think I have really good chances of succeeding with my chart. Nobody could tell me what I'd need in my chart in order to be "successful".
Looking at these charts I would say - some more conjunctions, please! (the "right" ones) and some more retro planets??:lol:
 

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bubuza_dulce

Well-known member
This is the chart of Alexis Carrel, the info is from astro, I have redone the chart in order to be in the same format as the others.

Scientist, biologist and surgeon, recognized for work in blood vessel surgery and transplanting of organs.

Grand Cross, Mars in Scorpio and in the 8th, Moon in Leo (as in charts 1 and 3), conjunct Jupiter in the 6th.

Mercury in the 5th is conjunct Uranus (he innovated in his field, created something new) square Mars, opposition Saturn, square Neptune.

In the 1st chart we have Mercury sextile Mars (I'm very interested in the relation fingers/mind versus action),trine Chiron and Neptune in the second Mercury opposition Uranus, square Saturn, in the 3rd no major aspect.

I will post some charts from astro with birth time for the people who want to look at that but the problem with these charts is that they, being so famous, were so much more than "just surgeons" and the aspects there are also for fame or in this case also "biologist, scientist" etc.

A lot of oppositions and squares and planets "packed" in three conjunctions.

In case my assumptions are somehow wrong or I do something I shouldn't be doing with these charts, please feel free to correct me or say whatever you need to say. I am at the beginning of studying astrology and words from the "elders" in astrology are much appreciated:smile:.
 

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bubuza_dulce

Well-known member
One of the people I admire the most, Ben Carson! (I read the book about him - Gifted Hands: The Ben Carson Story, it really impressed me).

I couldn't find his birth time on the internet, he is not in astro data bank, if someone has the time feel free to post it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Carson

Adult and paediatric neurosurgeon.
A very close conjunction Mars - Pluto in Leo, no aspect between Mercury and Mars but he had amazing eye-hand coordination. Mercury is in Virgo (domicile) conjunct Venus and trine Moon.
 

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Caro

Well-known member
ok I checked the reference now(Parker)

Scorpio rising with cancer sun - gynaecologist
Scorpio rising with leo sun - general surgeon.

makes sense with both asc and 6th H being traditionally ruled by mars.
also both sun signs high in the chart. these people can have big egos! so leo sun no surprise there!

maybe where mars is placed could indicate what degree of specialism or how they work.
interesting.
 

bubuza_dulce

Well-known member
ok I checked the reference now(Parker)

Scorpio rising with cancer sun - gynaecologist
Scorpio rising with leo sun - general surgeon.

makes sense with both asc and 6th H being traditionally ruled by mars.
also both sun signs high in the chart. these people can have big egos! so leo sun no surprise there!

maybe where mars is placed could indicate what degree of specialism or how they work.
interesting.

Yes, very interesting!
Which of the Derek and Julia Parker's books is it? I see there are many.

I'll try to find some gynaecologists with birth hour to see how it goes.

For example in the charts I have seen chart no. 1 has Mars/Pluto conjunction in Virgo and works on abdomen, intestines but in Ben Carson's chart Mars/Pluto conjunction is in Leo and he works on the brain (a royal area nevertheless). And I know another plastic surgeon with Mars in Leo.

Mars in Leo just seems strong, I suppose it can do many things.

Chart no. 4

Female, 49, plastic surgery.
One of the first females in my country to approach plastic surgery, she started her own business in aesthetic surgery, extremely successful and rich (her private clinic is one of the most expensive).

She has Mars in Leo part of an almost Grand Cross (it seemed like one when I looked at it first). Mars has some stressful aspects, Mercury also, Mercury squares Saturn (like in the 2nd chart).

She has Venus in Aries (like the 2nd and the 3rd chart, so this is the third time I see this in a few charts, I suppose it's their love for action!) and Sun in Taurus like the 3rd chart. Taurus seems to be well represented with planets in almost all the charts. It is somehow logical considering it is "earthy" and "bodily" and in this case it has to do with beauty.
 

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Caro

Well-known member
its the main large text book called Parkers astrology 2003/4 edition.

It is a guide in their general career section - but is quite a useful guide.
for cancer sun a number of medical jobs are suggested. It is a good starting block to see what profession people may excel in.

I would agree about Taurus too. but not libra!

surgical theatres are very hot with the lights - maybe that has changed as it cant be good for infections . but yes can see why fire signs would be prominent also.
 

bubuza_dulce

Well-known member
I would agree about Taurus too. but not libra!

What about Libra? I didn't say anything about it. And thanks about the book!

There is some heat because it has to be a lot of light. And it cannot be cold in the room because an "open" body loses a lot of heat.
 
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waybread

Well-known member
Thanks, Caro, I'll talk about their specialities. I haven't read in-depth medical astrology and I know only partly about what sign rules what but that's something I want to learn.

So here it goes!

The first chart belongs to a very good general surgeon, teacher, head of hospital. Unfortunately he died.
(General surgery meaning mostly abdominal surgery, liver for example - and he died of a liver disease).
I noticed the close conjunction Mars-Pluto in Virgo, the apex of a kite (if we consider Chiron).
He was a very impressive presence (some people feared him!),was a very good story-teller, had read a lot of literature and was very good of telling jokes.
His above-average knowing of books made me think of that Venus in Gemini, the joke telling of all the placements in Leo and the story-telling maybe it had to do with his Sun/Mercury in Cancer.
His Mercury (fingers) has very good aspects with Mars/Pluto!


I posted Chiron aspects because I've seen they're important many times.

Also Lilith seems to be in the middle of things in many charts and that is something I don't always see. I've read about how between the corrected and uncorrected Lilith there's some sort of canal that changes the expression of the planets caught in-between or challenges it somehow. I didn't put all the Liliths as it would make the chart harder to read. But for example in all of my friends' charts only one has really close Lilith conjunction (so it might appear relevant at a point).

You might wish to invest in a few books on medical astrology, if you don't have some already! Each body-part and illness has an astrological ruler. A good general book on rulerships with medical info included is Rex E. Bills, The Rulership Book.

Jupiter rules the liver. Saturn is an interesting planet in a surgeon's chart, as well, because they are such senior authority figures in their profession, and because Saturn generally teaches patience, hard work, and self-discipline-- all good qualities for a surgeon to have.

This man's Saturn is domiciled in Capricorn, and conjuncts Jupiter. His Mars looks well-placed in health-conscious, perfectionist Virgo, conjunct life-and-death Pluto. These are also the tip of a kite formation. Then the sun in Cancer is suggestive of a man in one of the "caring" professions (not that surgeons necessarily are into a great bedside manner!)
 

waybread

Well-known member
Chart no. 2.
Female, 35, plastic surgery. Has had a lot of help from her parents (they both are surgeons) who helped her even literally, operating with her on the same team. Though young has accomplished much receiving all the help she could get from her family.

I noticed the Kite with a Grand Fire Trine and the apex on Pluto (again).
She operates a lot on the face (Aries) with very good results.

Her Mercury (fingers) has rather stressful aspects and her Mars is in Pisces.
But I guess that Kite can compensate for other things she may be lacking.

Her Moon is in Capricorn (or Aquarius) and Venus in Aries. And, if you keep that in mind, you'll see that in other charts this is something that keeps appearing!:tongue: It's not about whether they could practice surgery but about what they enjoy doing! (the first chart looks more like an exception, the rest I've seen don't have Venus in Gemini)

The face is ruled by Aries and the first house. We don't know this doctor's houses, but she's got sun conjunct Venus (rules aesthetics) in Aries. Then we see another kite formation pointing to Pluto. This one, in Libra, reinforces a Venusian quality. Not bad for a plastic surgeon specializing in reconstructing faces.
 

bubuza_dulce

Well-known member
Then the sun in Cancer is suggestive of a man in one of the "caring" professions (not that surgeons necessarily are into a great bedside manner!)


Thanks, Waybread, I have some books but I need to study this subject more thoroughly.

This man took care a long time of his mother who had been ill for years. I noticed his Sun and Moon were in mutual reception and he had Lilith in Leo and I read it has something to do with the mother not letting the child go.

He could have been more caring than others also maybe due to his relationship with his mother.
 

bubuza_dulce

Well-known member
Chart no 5

Male, 50, bariatric surgery (weight-loss surgery). A specialist in the field.

This one looks easy! A Scorpio stellium, including Mercury and Sun, Mercury squares Mars (so this does not always gives clumsy fingers, on the contrary. Sometimes I see the square, sometimes the trine).

Mars, the Moon and NN are in Leo (like in other upper charts).

About the weight - loss I suppose we should look at Jupiter (gaining weight and it is conjunct Chiron. This is "the wound" he takes care of, healing others?) and Saturn (losing it?) and they are both in domicile according to traditional astrology.

Uranus/Pluto conjunct in Virgo - he makes people's lives change drastically influencing their health (those planets being so slow I suppose they have to be somewhere important in his chart).
 

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bubuza_dulce

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Ok, so now I have an even clearer idea about what kind of Mars I want in my chart, good for surgery.

I would like a Mars in Leo, conjunct Pluto (like I have it, but with a smaller orb), in the 10th house, at the apex of a T-square (not a trine!) and trine Mercury (not square because I already have this one and it is a bit difficult:lol:!) And also a kite somewhere to include Mars and/or Mercury.:happy:

And a Venus in Aries, Moon in Aquarius for example. Moon in Leo would be a bit too much I suppose with Mars also there.

BTW, I have not seen yet in these charts a retrograde Mars! (though I suppose it could exist in some surgeons' charts)
 
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