does the 7th house represent all marriages? Or only the first marriage?

JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
poyi said:
Obviously Laws in all nations are not Black and White and in fact deeply culturally and religiously influenced by subjective views of today society and values of marriage for example. In more traditional point of view that is no longer relevant in most cases, the first sexual intercourse and each sexual partner by Chinese astrology standard can be considered as marriage of the Flesh cause the sexual intercourse itself by the primary standard as the Union of the two lives into One.
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For some, marriage is a form of commitment to another person for life
although clearly 'marriage' has a different interpretation
depending on the person's philosophy and mindset
poyi said:
If we are solely to consider the marriage of the Flesh as by the standard of sharing the physical bodies as in long term sexual relationship/partnership AC & DC which may or may not produce a child but do usually living together IC and social recognized as couple MC.
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and there is far more to the marriage than 'Flesh'
and no need for legal formalities IF it is based on trust

AND

a wedding is always a good opportunity for a celebration
as well as for distant family members to be re-acquainted

HOWEVER

To be realistic, frequently, due to lack of trust,
people marry in order to substantiate their rights in the event of one of the parties deciding they made an error in marrying.

The very wealthy practice a form of 'serial monogamy' and marry many times - usual example is Elizabeth Taylor who had eight husbands

Marriage for the privileged classes is an opportunity to show off wealth and status
and obviously, for those who have neither wealth nor status,
frequently so-called 'legal marriage' remains beyond their means

NEVERTHELESS

their relationship is often more of a 'marriage'
than that of some ostentatious Celebrity or Socialite who marries and divorces at will
sometimes it seems merely for the publicity
or
simply because they can afford to indulge their every whim :smile:
 
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The Ram

The Ram

Well-known member
poyi said:
Also no matter how long two had lived and shared their resources and have legal children together, when they are in front of the laws for whatever reason they will never be able to use the Term Divorce as they were never on paper in religious point of view and in civil law point of view were ever Married so there is no such process of Divorce can be processed.
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They may not use the term divorce or those other words. But those are just formalities anyway.

In many places the courts will treat a couple as husband and wife provided they've cohabitated for a certain amount of time. I know dudes who have been taken to the cleaners after cohabitating who can attest to this.

Common law is marriage to many judges and courts. And both get treated the same as each other.
 
Satine

Satine

Well-known member
The Ram said:
Hmmm. You have a moon in Gemini and 2 other planets in mutable Sag. You have a pretty strong 12th house as well, with 2 planets including Jupiter: the 12ths ruler. Plus all 4 angles in your chart are in the 4 mutable signs.

My bad I should have mentioned to include the angles as well as the nodes in your determining which is your dominant mode. I'd say you're a pretty even mix of mutable and fixed, as your dominant modes. By comparison you're only slightly influenced by the cardinal signs.

Your descendant in mutable Gemini alone (air along with water being the most mutable elements) indicates to me more than 1 marriage.
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I would love to get married again if I can find a good man that I am compatible with. Are there any clues in a chart that point to the character of the people you marry? Or the success of the relationship/s/? Are there any aspects that indicate more than one divorce?
 
poyi

poyi

Premium Member
JA I do understand your points.

I would also like to point out the grey areas of Non marital relationship is subject to change by legal laws of the local area as well as individual moral standard etc.

It is subject to change as per individual standards and values. But Legal Marriage will always be legal marriage even if there is no more love in that legal marriage; both parties are restricted by laws such as Adultery as the example I listed, the party who broke this law is to be judged and the affected party have the power to ask for judgement. While non marital relationship is under subjective laws rather the society at large is supporting that view or not but in a larger picture is not the same throughout the world but legal marriage however is standardized.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Satine said:
I would love to get married again if I can find a good man that I am compatible with. Are there any clues in a chart that point to the character of the people you marry? Or the success of the relationship/s/? Are there any aspects that indicate more than one divorce?
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If a person has been divorced once, then the potential for divorce is clearly evident :smile:
 
The Ram

The Ram

Well-known member
Satine said:
I would love to get married again if I can find a good man that I am compatible with. Are there any clues in a chart that point to the character of the people you marry? Or the success of the relationship/s/? Are there any aspects that indicate more than one divorce?
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Asteroid Juno's placement and aspects can tell you about what you look for in a marriage partner.

Asteroid Adonis' placement and aspects will tell you about what kind of man you find the most sexually appealing.

Asteroid Eros' placement and aspects will tell you what qualities in a man will turn you on.

Asteroid Psyches placement and aspects will tell you what type of person understands you.

Look for aspects between these asteroids and venus, mars, sun, moon, descendant, North node (maybe south node as well, but tht's hit or miss) in synastry.

The vertex axis is important as well. As it represents fated meetings, which could be a soulmate. Aspects to the vertex axis in synastry are pretty good indicators of compatibility. When transiting planets aspect your vertex axis then someone special may come into your life at that point.
 
poyi

poyi

Premium Member
I would like to stress again. By many modern standards a de facto relationship by law for both hetersexual or homosexual de facto couple, if in any legal case either party would ask for the right of the children or the material/financial ownership de facto are to be treated as equally as the legal married couple.

HOWEVER, when it comes to the law for Adultery it does not apply and do not restrict the couple with no common, shared interest under the legal marriage as to commit to each other under the restriction of the law and both legally willing to be judged by the law against Adultery. Basically, my idea of 7th house partnership in both love and business partnership are both under a form of Contract that demands complete equality of both parties LIBRA to be responsible in all aspects of Share that is all within the 8th house however, except this particular part sexual intercourse outside of marriage and to be judged as Adultery does NOT apply to any couple no matter how long they have been together and how serious and subjectively or materiality involved this Law does not apply to the de facto couple and will not demand the wrong party to be judged. As much as you can call that person had cheated on you that does not give you any right to demand legal payment or the right to order a divorce.

In fact, within a legal marriage comparing to the de facto relationship both couples have children and in relationship living together for a long period of time. The married couple, in the case of legal payment, the one at fault of adultery will need to pay higher penalty than the one at fault but not committed in the legal marriage even they also have children together.

Strangely enough, there are often unexpected advantages in obtaining a divorce based on adultery. Such divorces are very often not "amicable" for obvious enough reasons. Nevertheless, what often happens is that the person who has committed the adultery either (a) feels guilty and/or (b) wants to remarry quickly. Each of these factors can very often lead to them agreeing to a financial settlement more unfavourable to them than they might otherwise have done. Although it may be scant consolation for a broken marriage the truth of the matter is still that either of the above two factors can lead to a more favourable financial settlement for the "innocent" party. If such is the case it is sensible to profit from the opportunity while it lasts because very often attitudes harden if the impulse is not acted upon quickly. This does occasionally present unexpected opportunities for resolving financial matters very quickly and favourably.
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http://www.terry.co.uk/adultery.html

The issue with Adultery in the married couple case, will have a much higher nature of Penalty involvement while the non married couple do not have such right in legal matter. It is exactly why I stress about the issue of legal married as the complete Meaning of 8th house can be manifested, penalty and payment, debt of certain fault.
 
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TamaraL

TamaraL

Well-known member
Lion o ness said:
Yeah I can agree with this..

It "should" be recognized ( astrology wise) as a marriage...

But again!

Sorrreee. :andy:

If you live with someone for 2 years produce a child..
That is obviously an important relationship also...

So at what point does it cross over to h7 when the 2 people just live together...
(Astrologically speaking)
Get me???


For me.. I was wondering if it's more about "personal thinking"
Which of course is not in the natal..

Do the two people consider themselves as married, or do they just consider them self in a relationship..

I wonder if perception of the relationship would change the houses?
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You are right its vague & different for every modern practitioner...I think that if there is a child (no matter the duration of the relationship.).this relationship will always be indicated as an important union-"astrological marriage" in a persons chart...(what can be more important union, than 2 people creating a child) Now everything in life & in this case astrology has to do with interpretation as you said "personal thinking" ...
In my view its not the perception of the relationship that affects the houses but the opposite..
For instance (in Whole signs system) I have Saturn-Uranus very tightly conjunct on the 7th House (& both conjunct loosely Neptune)...So that placement could explain my "unconventional" view of marriage, (Uranus) but on the other hand I very committed in relationships (Saturn). From inner search I know that these placements & their aspects have influenced my perception of marriage as burden.

p.s I am posting my chart, if u want to see what I am saying..
 

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Satine

Satine

Well-known member
The Ram said:
Asteroid Juno's placement and aspects can tell you about what you look for in a marriage partner.

Asteroid Adonis' placement and aspects will tell you about what kind of man you find the most sexually appealing.

Asteroid Eros' placement and aspects will tell you what qualities in a man will turn you on.

Asteroid Psyches placement and aspects will tell you what type of person understands you.

Look for aspects between these asteroids and venus, mars, sun, moon, descendant, North node (maybe south node as well, but tht's hit or miss) in synastry.

The vertex axis is important as well. As it represents fated meetings, which could be a soulmate. Aspects to the vertex axis in synastry are pretty good indicators of compatibility. When transiting planets aspect your vertex axis then someone special may come into your life at that point.
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Noted. thank you that is very helpful!
 
TamaraL

TamaraL

Well-known member
Satine said:
Lol lame. Divorce is miserable. I hope if I get married again we'll dodge that bullet.
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Hello Satine,
I am sorry to 'intervene' here, I only wanna mention something...Some of my closest friends are people who got 'trapped' in miserable marriages (+some continue to live a miserable life, because they are terrified of being alone & start over...)...So living a miserable marriage is worse than a miserable divorce...
Just my thoughts
Tam
:)
 
Satine

Satine

Well-known member
TamaraL said:
Hello Satine,
I am sorry to 'intervene' here, I only wanna mention something...Some of my closest friends are people who got 'trapped' in miserable marriages (+some continue to live a miserable life, because they are terrified of being alone & start over...)...So living a miserable marriage is worse than a miserable divorce...
Just my thoughts
Tam
:)
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Agreed! I'm in no rush.I have 3 children, I won't be getting married again unless I am confident that we are completely compatible and we've been together a while. I'm going to be very careful. at this moment I am much happier single then I was in my marriage, it would be nice to find a marriage that made me happier than being single. Someday. My son could use a good role model and my girls could use an example of what a healthy relationship looks like.
 
Satine

Satine

Well-known member
The Ram said:
There's a lot more to it than that, but others have explained and can explain the other techniques better than I can.

Also in regards to the vertex, it is important. But don't take a planetary contact to it as a sure thing either. An ex had her mercury exactly (0mins) conjunct my vertex and while we were together several years, I eventually broke it off due to incompatibility.
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good to know!
 
Lion o ness

Lion o ness

Well-known member
TamaraL said:
You are right its vague & different for every modern practitioner...I think that if there is a child (no matter the duration of the relationship.).this relationship will always be indicated as an important union-"astrological marriage" in a persons chart...(what can be more important union, than 2 people creating a child) Now everything in life & in this case astrology has to do with interpretation as you said "personal thinking" ...
In my view its not the perception of the relationship that affects the houses but the opposite..
For instance (in Whole signs system) I have Saturn-Uranus very tightly conjunct on the 7th House (& both conjunct loosely Neptune)...So that placement could explain my "unconventional" view of marriage, (Uranus) but on the other hand I very committed in relationships (Saturn). From inner search I know that these placements & their aspects have influenced my perception of marriage as burden.

p.s I am posting my chart, if u want to see what I am saying..
Click to expand...



Haha.. I have Uranus in h7 trine Saturn...
Probably why I agree with you. :lol:
 
Lion o ness

Lion o ness

Well-known member
The Ram said:
Asteroid Juno's placement and aspects can tell you about what you look for in a marriage partner.

Asteroid Adonis' placement and aspects will tell you about what kind of man you find the most sexually appealing.

Asteroid Eros' placement and aspects will tell you what qualities in a man will turn you on.

Asteroid Psyches placement and aspects will tell you what type of person understands you.

Look for aspects between these asteroids and venus, mars, sun, moon, descendant, North node (maybe south node as well, but tht's hit or miss) in synastry.

The vertex axis is important as well. As it represents fated meetings, which could be a soulmate. Aspects to the vertex axis in synastry are pretty good indicators of compatibility. When transiting planets aspect your vertex axis then someone special may come into your life at that point.
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Haha..
My vertex,psyche in Virgo in h7
My Eros in Pisces conjunct asc...
I can't remember Adonis at this time. :innocent:
 
Satine

Satine

Well-known member
The Ram said:
Asteroid Juno's placement and aspects can tell you about what you look for in a marriage partner.

Asteroid Adonis' placement and aspects will tell you about what kind of man you find the most sexually appealing.

Asteroid Eros' placement and aspects will tell you what qualities in a man will turn you on.

Asteroid Psyches placement and aspects will tell you what type of person understands you.

Look for aspects between these asteroids and venus, mars, sun, moon, descendant, North node (maybe south node as well, but tht's hit or miss) in synastry.

The vertex axis is important as well. As it represents fated meetings, which could be a soulmate. Aspects to the vertex axis in synastry are pretty good indicators of compatibility. When transiting planets aspect your vertex axis then someone special may come into your life at that point.
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Trying to find these but when I pull up my chart on astrodienst they aren't available. Do you know a different site where I could look them up?
 
TamaraL

TamaraL

Well-known member
Satine said:
Trying to find these but when I pull up my chart on astrodienst they aren't available. Do you know a different site where I could look them up?
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Stay on the same website, go to "Extended Chart Selection", scroll-down to "Additional Objects" section right underneath there are 3 clickable lists of asteroids:

Asteroid name/number list with 17224 names
List of fixed stars
List of other horoscope factors and "hypothetical" planets

You can find all of them in these lists!
 
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