Is he over me?

Hello, I'm new and happy to be here. I apologize that my first post includes a cliche question! I hope that won't stop it from being a chart reading that's worth your while.

My question: "Is he over me?"

The "he" in question is someone with whom I had an email relationship. We got along very well, and I developed strong feelings for him. We also flirted a lot and I found him sexy and fun and smart. Due to my own fears around relationships, I delayed us meeting for too long and was not completely honest with him. He cut ties with me in May of last year. I still care for him and am attracted to him. I wanted to work through my fears and take our relationship to the next step, but I don't believe he feels the same. His words and actions indicated he gave up on me for good. A part of me hopes that's not true, hence my question.

Here's the chart. I had trouble including it in my first post.

I'll give it a go and offer some of my observations about the chart.

The first feature I notice is that our significators form a tight applying square. If he were over me, I woulde expect for there to be no aspects between our signficators or for our aspect to be separating. I was very surprised to see this applying aspect in the chart. So much so, that I rechecked several times that it was indeed an applying aspect. Would it make sense to intepret this to mean that he's not over me? I suppose it could mean that he either (1) still feels pain over our separation or (2) still feels negatively towards me. There are probably other options too, but those are the ones that come to mind for me.

The next feature I notice is the Sun debilitated and in the 1st house. I looked at the Sun's placement since it's the natural significator for the "sexual" side of a man in a love horary. The Sun may have double significance here though since Leo is intercepted in his house. I believe horary would generally say his co-sig's placement in my house means that he is still into me? Similar to the first feature though, this surprises me. I wasn't expecting to see this kind of testimony because he's not contacted me since he dumped me and told me to move on with my life.

From the start, I've sometimes wondered if he dumped me mostly as a self-protective measure, that I'd hurt his pride and he no longer believed I wanted him. This being his actual motivation for dumping me (rather than simple loss of interest) could explain what this chart is showing.

I'm innately such a pessimist when it comes to love though, that I'm not inclinded to believing this interpretation.

I'd be grateful to hear another's view on this chart.

I'm unsure bc I do see Moon aspecting Saturn, but Moon also meets other planets before Saturn... hope one of the experts answers!

Getting together with him, Moon in partile exact square with Saturn, will not give good results. You should believe what he told you, instead of what you wish might be true.

Hi, LovelyMissAries and IleneK!

LMA - The numbers can be hard to see in these charts. The Moon's next applying aspect actually is with Saturn. Moon = Pisces 24.20, Saturn = Sag 24.34. After that, the Moon's next and final in-sign aspect is with Venus = Pisces 27.25.

IleneK - In your experience, does horary usually do that, show the future potential of the relationship rather than answer what was asked? I was reflecting heavily and solely on if he was over me, and that's what I asked. So I thought in the context of that question, the partile square symbolized our break up still feels current for him. Would you say what I asked doesn't really matter and a relationship horary instead skips to future potential?

I appreciate the time you guys took to respond, thank you!

If anyone has any other comments regarding the chart and my question, I'd be interested in hearing. In particular, I'm still curious what, in the context of my question, the Sun debilitated in my house indicates, as well as the partile square between significators. I took the square to mean that our break-up was still a part of his present, in that he wasn't over me. Even though I'd asked about if he'd moved on, do you think the chart was instead answering about our future potential?

Our relationship was largely email based, but there were also phone calls and videos. We never met in person. We both natally have our 7th house ruler in our third house, which likely reflects how significant a meeting of the minds is to both of us, and how we could bond so closely primarily through writing. It also indicates that we're both attracted to partners who can write.

A little more background information: A couple of weeks before our break-up, I'd confessed a couple significant lies to him. I'd feared he'd instantly dump me, but instead he surprised me by not taking it badly and was still eager to meet in person. On the phone, he mentioned that in the past we'd had some breaks up that never lasted and said that "it's clear we can't stay apart." I'd responded that maybe the other breaks up didn't last because I hadn't yet been fully honest. I'd meant that maybe now that he knew the truth, he wouldn't want to be together. It's possible though that he interpreted me as meaning that I'd be at peace now with us ending because I'd come clean. His tone got sad after I said that, which made me worry he misunderstood me. I foolishly didn't clarify though. I share that to explain one reason that I wonder if he genuinely lost interest or feared that I had. I also know that in the past, he rejected someone who he actually really loved and ended up regretting doing so. So I know it's a trait he has. Those are the some of the reasons that I think it's possible he's not over me. My pessimism that he is, however, is greater than my hope that he isn't. Either way though--leaving hope/fear out it--I'm curious what the chart is saying about my question.

I interpret the square as a connection, but a difficult one. I think people look to reception to interpret how one feels to each other and the aspects as more the answer. Could be wrong about the aspects (perhaps all factors are weighed equally in determining an answer to the chart). Rule of thumb is not to complicate things -- there should be an underlying question and the rest regarding the situation can be answered by the chart.

Because he at 24 pisces does not receive you saturn in a reference chart for dignities, and he is in your 2nd house, I think this is something you want to fix and he is a part of that. You are in his 5th house; that and the square aspect makes me think he might have a convo with you, but perhaps over you romantically.

you asked about the sun -- it would rule the 8th house but in this chart it is intercepted in 7th -- ruler of 7th in your first would mean you are more concerned about the querent than vice versa.

16Sunrise said:

IleneK - In your experience, does horary usually do that, show the future potential of the relationship rather than answer what was asked? I was reflecting heavily and solely on if he was over me, and that's what I asked. So I thought in the context of that question, the partile square symbolized our break up still feels current for him. Would you say what I asked doesn't really matter and a relationship horary instead skips to future potential?

I appreciate the time you guys took to respond, thank you!

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You are welcome.

Horary asks that the true compelling underlying question be posed. If you examine your question carefully, my experience is that it is most highly likely that the true reason you would want to know if he was over you was the outside chance that in fact he was not. And that is out of the hope that you will be reunited.

So while you were reflecting deeply upon if he was over you, to me, it seems it was not the true heart of the question, which is what the horarist is charged with with answering. Rather it is something much like, "Will we get back together happily?"

he is with another woman moon/venus after clashing with saturn the querent.
conjunction is stronger than a square

he is def over the querent moon is faster, moon makes decisions.. venus already wants him

Hi Tikana, thank you for your comment!

I had wondered about Venus, if it should indicate my "female" side or if it should indicate another woman. In this context, I'm leaning towards it indicating another woman, as you said.

Unless it instead reflects my willingness now to fix things and be open to love, and that he would like that and meet me in that goal.

The other woman interpretation makes a lot of sense though. I'm so curious now from a horary standpoint to check with him on the truth!

Do you have any opinion on the Sun in my 1st house? Do you use the Sun as a co-sig for a male in love horaries? My instinct is it shows that although interested in me (my house), I hurt his pride (debilitated) and exhausted his patience.

IleneK said:

You are welcome.

Horary asks that the true compelling underlying question be posed. If you examine your question carefully, my experience is that it is most highly likely that the true reason you would want to know if he was over you was the outside chance that in fact he was not. And that is out of the hope that you will be reunited.

So while you were reflecting deeply upon if he was over you, to me, it seems it was not the true heart of the question, which is what the horarist is charged with with answering. Rather it is something much like, "Will we get back together happily?"

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That makes a lot of sense, thank you!

besitos said:

I interpret the square as a connection, but a difficult one. I think people look to reception to interpret how one feels to each other and the aspects as more the answer. Could be wrong about the aspects (perhaps all factors are weighed equally in determining an answer to the chart). Rule of thumb is not to complicate things -- there should be an underlying question and the rest regarding the situation can be answered by the chart.

Because he at 24 pisces does not receive you saturn in a reference chart for dignities, and he is in your 2nd house, I think this is something you want to fix and he is a part of that. You are in his 5th house; that and the square aspect makes me think he might have a convo with you, but perhaps over you romantically.

you asked about the sun -- it would rule the 8th house but in this chart it is intercepted in 7th -- ruler of 7th in your first would mean you are more concerned about the querent than vice versa.

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Interesting, thank you so much besitos! Seeing how you guys interpret the chart is helping me understand horary better and, of course, get insight on this situation.

Your "fix" take on the 2nd house definitely reflects how I feel! I hadn't even considered that component of the 2nd house. It probably also shows how I'm holding on. Nearly a year later, geesh.

For being in the 1st...I've always heard the opposite regarding who's interested, but I take it there are two schools of thought on that? Well, my interest was/is definitely true, I can vouch for that much!

The thing is, I'm a virgin. I've waited, wanted to feel a strong love and lust for my first. What may be unusual about me is that it also felt essential to me that my first be the man who I felt compelled to open up to, to share my old wounds regarding love that I formed during my upbringing. It's odd, I know, that I connect love and sex with purging and healing those wounds. But it's felt like I needed a man who could touch that part of myself for sex to feel right.

Perhaps because of that inner demand, I've felt strongly attracted to so few. Before this man, I'd only had similarly intense feelings for my high school boyfriend. Back then though, I wasn't ready yet to open up. I wasn't ready to show him where I hurt. Partly, I was scared he wouldn't like that side of myself. I feared he only loved and wanted my happy, fun, confident, upbeat side and that he wouldn't want all of me. This was unfair of me because he very well may have accepted all of me. But because I didn't open up and show all of myself, I didn't want to have sex. It's like a catch 22! I need to show all of it to want sex, but I fear I won't be loved if I do.

Or, I should say that I feared, in the past tense. I'm getting over that. Finally. And also accepting that I need to feel the fear and do it anyway, not let it restrict and freeze me in time.

So with this man, I entered our aquaintance with the same fears. I didn't give him a fair chance. I didn't jump in and try. And what saddens me, why I probably haven't let him go, is I don't know if I'll ever feel for someone else the way I felt/feel for him. Have I blown my chance to be with someone I really love?

I mean, eventually I'll have sex. I don't want to be celibate all my life. But I'd waited so long for someone who I loved and deeply desired, and when I finally found it, I blew my chances to take it to the next level.

I hope my confessional wasn't too awkward or inappropriate.

Hi Sunrise

I felt same like you its not unusual you want to feel connected and loved thats normal.Maybe you are not ready yet that was with me and when when i was ready i met my first love.

If you feel fear then you are not ready or its not right guy and when right guy comes u will know it and you wont feel fear.
When u meet that guy dont except that its love for lifetime like me
if you like the guy start dating and see where it goes.
You are virgin so what i waited it and i am glad i didnt lose my virginity to some loser.

When me and my ex broke up it was really hard and the same year i moved with my family in different apartmant soo that didnt help too xd.
Think this way it wasnt meant to be i belive everything happens for a reason, you learned something from this.
That guy was just part of your journey, you will meet someone have faith and be open to love.

christina1989 said:

Hi Sunrise

I felt same like you its not unusual you want to feel connected and loved thats normal.Maybe you are not ready yet that was with me and when when i was ready i met my first love.

If you feel fear then you are not ready or its not right guy and when right guy comes u will know it and you wont feel fear.
When u meet that guy dont except that its love for lifetime like me
if you like the guy start dating and see where it goes.
You are virgin so what i waited it and i am glad i didnt lose my virginity to some loser.

When me and my ex broke up it was really hard and the same year i moved with my family in different apartmant soo that didnt help too xd.
Think this way it wasnt meant to be i belive everything happens for a reason, you learned something from this.
That guy was just part of your journey, you will meet someone have faith and be open to love.

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Thank you for your kind message. You are so right.

I also think you're right that the fear I felt may not have just been my standard, omnipresent fear , the fear that follows me whenever my heart is touched by a man. I saw red flags - signs of a temper that reminded me of my dad, and a coldness at times. I never felt a true sense of safety with him. I know part of that was me, my intrinsic trepidation. But part really was due to messages he sent, behaviors and attitudes.

The Square here is very telling. I need to accept that it just wasn't meant to be more than it was. He doesn't want who I really am, and I need to accept that I couldn't feel emotionally safe with him.

Hello, I wanted to supply an update in case it's helpful with horary study.

He contacted me in late July, so about 6 months after I made the horary. He said that during the time we were apart, he took a break from women and had also hoped that I'd show up at his door.

Things went ok for a couple of weeks and then quickly fell apart, with my quote below still reflecting our situation.

16Sunrise said:

The Square here is very telling. I need to accept that it just wasn't meant to be more than it was. He doesn't want who I really am, and I need to accept that I couldn't feel emotionally safe with him.

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Thanks again to those who gave their insights, and I hope this update is in some way helpful.

Show up at his door???
Lol ahould u roll a gold carpet just before he opens it to get his mail