Horary Test: Am I pregnant?

Thanks clear as allways!

I know on here we are all annalysing and learning this thread, thats why we are here to learn... Thats what makes it a great site!

I find for us beginners that the more indepth and the more points in the chart that are annalysed the less we and the others will join in.. its over our head and i fear that the post here will be lost to how a pregnancy horay should be read!

weather its up to a person who they follow and how they follow or not.. there are guidlines here in this particlular astrology and pregnancy is even different from say a relational horay...

I think what im trying to say is it would be good if these threads are kept an eye on from those that are experianced in this area... I can see people answering horay charts now thinking its ok to look outside of the square here... and i say this for one reason.... ( the people that are posting the threads will listen to what they say) right or wrong they will think its true.

Hi Didi, I fully understand your confusion. It was the same for me when I started and read an interpretation where more advanced traditional astrologers would mention all the terms and faces and antiscia/contra-antiscia and what not! And yes, also about the Nodes. I had NO idea what to do with those. What I did was the following. When I saw something I did not know nor understood, I would only concentrate on those things for a while. So I went into the internet to the tutoring of Deborah Holding, really well done with questions after each paragraph. I went to where she writes about the table of essential dignities, I printed one out from the internet and keep it at my side at all times (I will never get all those terms and faces into my head, I can just manage the falls, detriments, rulerships and exaltations). Then I saw this thing about Antiscia's. I still find that a real pain to calculate and I always forget using them and must be reminded. Then came the planetary hours etc. and with it if the chart is a day or a night chart.Another copied page next to me to help me determine those. So you see, it all comes gradually, trust me.

With a quizz like this, all different astrologers come in, some with a lot, some with less knowledge and like me, some with lots of modern astrological knowledge but far less traditional knowledge (am doing that only for 3 years about). I just love it as it is very complementary to what I learned. That's probably also why you think it looks like interpreting a natal chart instead of a horary. Soon you will be able to see the difference.(although in natal astrology I now also look at all those dignities and debilities).
So what did I learn from this? Everything Dr.Farr wrote about the parts. I only used to look at part of Fortune, Death and Life, he uses all of them I think. Now I will delve a bit more into that.
Just go with the flow for now. It is like learning a language by listening to others only.

Oh EJ, I did not even start with Lilly! I started with my Dutch favorite Karen Hamaker-Zondag (because it was written in Dutch), then Anthony Louis and the tutoring of Deborah Houlding in the internet (skyscript) and only after that I thought (because it seemed to be a bit of a bible) of getting Lilly's Christian Astrology.
I have not read it completely. I followed all his interpretations (used the modern charts, cant get used to those square one's) of the questions given and in the beginning it was all a bit too much for me, so I did a step back and just got the basics into my head and instead of 43 aphorisms and considerations for better judgement of Lilly, I just use the most common one's (Moon VOC, early-late Asc., Saturn in 7 etc. Lilly is going into loads of details and really, many of them are not applicable these days (like Algol and being beheaded, unless by accident when you stick your head in a machine). I also cannot remember everything, so should there be a question about pregnancy like this one, I would go to that part in his book and see what he has to say about it. I do this for all subjects when I cannot figure it out easily, just to see if there is another indication I could use. Lilly is useful in many ways, but I would not say it is a must. Skyscript will do just fine, great tutoring with exercises. But if you want to become a *master* in the art of horary, maybe Lilly would be the book to use or any other very ancient philosopher/astronomer/astrologer.

I still cannot understand why I have to learn/use the language of William Lilly in order to learn horary astrology.

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Because that's the language Lilly wrote it in, silly. There are several modern texts that will teach horary astrology, it's just that Lilly's has pretty much become something akin to the bible of horary astrologers.

If you have a question on horary techniques or Lilly's writings this is an astrology forum. I doubt you're the only one who would have a question about something written in that book so don't be afraid to ask. Horary is difficult to grasp, especially if you're coming from a modern background.

It's the horary astrology techniques that I'm hoping to learn here, rather than it's esoteric Olde Worlde language and terminology....

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But it is this ability that will open up a wide world of resources of astrological knowledge. I wouldn't be so quick to lose interest in it.

Just to mention the major sources which I have borrowed from in my eclectic mix of my own personal approach to horary, there is Lilly (about 25%), Ivy-Goldstein Jacobson, Manly Palmer Hall (a lot from him-mostly from lectures I attended at the Philosophical Research Society in Los Angeles, back in the late 1970's), De Luce, Bonatti (via Robert Zoller's book on the Arabic Parts), some influences from jyotish Prasna Tantra (some of their techniques, though tropical signs rather than sidereal), a good deal from Al-Biruni and several of the Arab authorities, some Lunar concepts found in Volguine's "Lunar Astrology" (and applied by me to horary), and, last but not least, the most from the "Ankara (Turkish) School" ( primarily an oral tradition) via my old astrological friend and teacher, Pasha, back in the 1970's.

thankyou starlink

I will think of this excersise as you have written, im a lot like you i feel in the way i learn and follow

Deborah Houlding in the internet (skyscript)

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I think she is the best example on how to read a horay chart

I also like william lillys works

I dont see myslef as a beginner ive been doing horay for a while, but i do see myself as a beginner of being good at it and i have a few messy emotional things going on right now that have interfeared in my self confidence and its reflecting in my readings of charts...

I still feel a horay is not to be read like a natal chart... but thats only me and everyone has a right to learn the way they do best! thats somethig im learning here also.

Hi there-Just throwing my hat into the ring too!
I dont think she is pregnant.
Firstly I see her body is ruled by Mercury and Mercury is strongly positioned in h10.
Her fifth house is ruled by Saturn.
Saturn is in Mercury's sign but in h12 and making no aspect to Mercury.
Even though Jupiter is inside h5 it is in capricorn, its Fall-so less helpful.
The moon is also in cap-sign of its fall. Jupiter rules h4 here-and the moon is in that house, not applying any aspects to the relevant rulers.
So I think her pregnancy test may be negative.
Lilly

Hi All!

Excuse me, if you don't mind, I would like to briefly post something unrelated to the motivation of this thread.

As promised I have *new* Horary Board rules/guidelines.


If you haven't submitted to me, in some way, shape, or form, what you would like to see changed (Kaiousei you never got back to me-- please do!), then your desired changes will not be reflected in this process.

If you don't participate in your government by voting, you can't complain!

Because this is a community for many different kinds of people-- not all specific changes could be granted.

But I am sure, if everyone takes the time to look this and tell me what they like or don't like, more changes will be made.

You will certainly be able to approach me, directly, as in PM, to address any issues you to still have.

If you have yet to approach me directly, just know I did not spend my time interpreting your posts (except in the "Elephant" thread). I took only what was given to me.

Again, this is just a representation of what can be in place, but just know you will be met with pressure regarding certain issues and those will remain unchanged. We simply cannot please everyone.

But, if you haven't told me what you wanted, then please don't be frustrated if your desires aren't reflected in this latest draft.

I'll be submitting it for moderator approval tonight.

Continue on with this thread and sorry for the potential derailment.

Mod.

Now I see what's at the root of my concern, Kai......Bible thumpers always strike me as being indoctrinated rather than mindful in their thinking.

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Thanks EJ, I appreciate that.

You have to understand that at his prime Lilly was answering 2000 charts a year and is perhaps the most prolific horary astrologer in history. He's not stingy with his knowledge and even offers up the suggestions of techniques he disagrees with for the student to try at their leisure. It's hardly a matter of faith.

Kerrie, here's the information for the chart. Sorry it took so long, I had to go back and discover it. x.x

May 22nd, 2008. 2:17pm at Hot Springs, AR, USA

Quote.
'...Hotsprings,AR'

Wish it was 'Bald Knob, AR'

Does anyone note 'The Lord of The Hour'?

Thank you for posting this thread K n S,learning lots.

Jerry

JerryRR said:

Does anyone note 'The Lord of The Hour'?

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Yes, when I'm looking over considerations.

I still feel a horay is not to be read like a natal ch

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It isn't! In horary you dont have exact aspects for instance, only ingoing and outgoing. Some houses are different. The 8th in natal has to do with sex, but in horary it is the 5th. The 8th has to do with death. The 6th in natal has to do with work and health, in horary it is the house of illness, not health. There are strict rules in horary which dont apply in natal astrology, like a VOC Moon and it's great influence on a horary outcome. I have done modern for almost 30 years now and I find horary very different and I also interprete it completely different. Also with missing persons or objects, you cannot do that sort of thing in natal. You can also not see what people think of one another in synastry, but you can in horary by looking if there is mutual reception etc. Of course certain things are similar, like the 5th which has to do with children and romance is similarly interpreted in natal, except for the fact that in natal it also represents your self expression, less talked about in horary.

don't be frustrated if your desires aren't reflected in this latest draft.

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Cleopatra, I have not seen any draft as I have not been regularly in the forum. Where can I find it?

Lee is another very clear writer, and her Martial Art of Horary Astrology is excellent.

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Oh, good to know, a "must have" book. Thanks for mentioning it Olivia.

Everyone in the thread has made excellent suggestions.

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I am looking forward to yours as well!! I read all of your interpretations with interest.

Hi Star,

I have not "gone public" with any changes made yet.

Stay tuned! I'll let you know when they've arrived.

Mod.

The 8th in natal has to do with sex, but in horary it is the 5th. The 8th has to do with death. The 6th in natal has to do with work and health, in horary it is the house of illness, not health

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I have to give a disclaimer here. These differences only occur in the modern astrological system (as in one coming from modern natal analysis going into horary or some other branch where traditional techniques and philosophy is necessary). The houses retain their meanings throughout the entire art of traditional astrology.

Oop, almost forgot about this tonight. I guess that means it's time for the big reveal.

Drum roll please...*dramatic music*

It turned out that the querent was not pregnant. The querent had no wish to be pregnant at this time and was a bit upset. You'll note the Moon is in her detriment. I actually posted this chart as a kind of trick question, I figured there would be some confusion about the chart with some people not knowing which way to go with it due to the way the chart looks.

Points to those astrologers who took into account the strength of the significators (their ability to manifest what they promise) and those pregnancy specific considerations which most can be found in Lilly's Christian Astrology pg. 226 "Whether She is With Child or Not".

The lesson behind this chart being to always consider the strength of the planets involved and any special considerations for the subject of the chart.

Thanks for playing everybody. Who's next? I learned that playing is more fun than being the host of the game.

I'll be posting a self-criticism of the mistakes I made (within the context of my own approach) tomorrow!

kai love ya work but...

To all those that thought she was pregnant... before slapping yourself...
Id like you to remember that a pregnancy horay cant be that easy to judge... I have read others that have had week rulers also and not even in the houses they should to represent being pregnant....
This was only one chart... it takes many many for even the experianced to get right!

Im not going to take back what i said, it was confusuing.. the signifyers were all in non fertile rulers and i havent seen one positive pregnancy with virgo or capricorn involved. there were no past aspects that matter..

This is where i thought i was being tricked, I knew something had to be up sneaky kai

Oh my, what can I say? I was maybe also influenced by the fact that I have also seen several charts with barren signs, natally as well, where the women got pregnant without any problem. It is indeed very tricky to tell. Good one Kai!