Odd jaw issue

Zonark

Zonark

Well-known member
I though I might get some interesting astrological input on a problem I've had with my jaw for about 5 years now. I can't close it fully, so I have to bite using my front incisors. My jaw has a great deal of stress on it, either because it can't close or for some other reason. My whole neck and face have a constant dull pain and I find making any sort of facial expression exacerbates the pain. I have a high pitched ring in my ear, either due to this or something else. Not sure if it is related though. I've woken up with my jaw clenched like a vice or my teeth gnashing together.

I've received at least 7 medical doctor's opinions on the issue, all completely different with widely varying approaches to treatment. The surgical ones I have not tried but among them included snapping the jaw in half and rewiring it (sounds incredibly stupid and not worth my time) cutting right through the bone on each side and shortening the lower jaw then pinning it back together (sounds even more ridiculous), cutting open the joint and excoriating scar tissue and ossified bone so the joint has more mobility (sounds rational enough), injecting saline into the joint then moving it back into place by force (sounds brutish and ridiculous), using biofeedback to relax the muscles (would like to try, unsure if it's worth the expense), physical therapy (couldn't hurt I suppose but unlikely to fix the problem) and I think that's about it.

Last doctor I saw told me I may have to deal with this for the rest of my life. While I'm okay with that, I'd rather get it fixed if possible.

Here's my chart, I can remove all those extra bodies if it helps;
 
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S

silverfish

Member
I really struggled to read that chart. Normally I ignore any question when the chart is pockmarked with asteroids, just not worth my time trying to read it. The charts on this forum are so small that I can't even read the tabular form of the planets and their degrees and signs. I was trying to find where Jupiter was, and the Moons nodes.....

Anyway with the best will in the world, that chart isn't readable. I just can't see the relevant stuff, and I did try.

I noticed that sometimes teeth and bones are affected by Jupiter rather than Saturn as most people expect. But without being able to see your chart I can't tell what is going on here.
 
S

silverfish

Member
Ok, off the top of my head, though I prefer to get an overview of the whole chart.

Did this problem start around the age of fifteen or sixteen, when your Solar Arc descendant progressed to your natal Jupiter (29 degrees Cancer?). Solar Arcs are the chart's angles moved forward or backwards one degree per year of life.
 
S

silverfish

Member
The good news is that your Jupiter's antiscion, 1 degree Gemini roughly, gets a Solar Arc progression from your lower Midheaven at roughly age 22. Even a small transit to your Jupiter could trigger a healing.

Can't those doctors give you an exact diagnosis, yet they want to carve you up? Try a good cranial osteopath or acupuncturist. I have seen somebody healed of a tortocolis, wry neck, in an instant by a very talented acupuncturist and people have had to wear horrible contraptions for years to no avail with that.
 
S

silverfish

Member
Currently there is a transit of Chiron around 1 degrees Pisces and Saturn 29 degrees Libra. Neptune in 1 degree Pisces is a big transit that should heal your Jupiter. Also Transpluto in 1 degree Virgo. There are so many helpful transits to your Jupiter and its Antiscion, 1 degree Gemini, that the healing could have a deep effect on you.

(Apologies for separate posts, but when I tried to edit a post I lost what I had written, twice).
 
F

Frisiangal

Well-known member
Disclaimer: I am not medically trained, whereby any information offered is derived from the rules applied to astrological symbolism as it pertains to the branch of astrology that deals with health issues. The personal focus is through the modern rather than traditional perspective and implies that physical disorder/disease is not ‘automatically’ written into a chart but can be a result of mismanagement of planetary energy.

Zonark said:
I though I might get some interesting astrological input on a problem I've had with my jaw for about 5 years now. I can't close it fully, so I have to bite using my front incisors. My jaw has a great deal of stress on it, either because it can't close or for some other reason. My whole neck and face have a constant dull pain and I find making any sort of facial expression exacerbates the pain. I have a high pitched ring in my ear, either due to this or something else. Not sure if it is related though. I've woken up with my jaw clenched like a vice or my teeth gnashing together.
Click to expand...

Hi,
According to my medical astrology books, the upper jaw is ruled by Aries (Mars influence), although there is some specualtion that it falls under Taurus. The lower jaw is ruled by Taurus(Venus influence), as is the neck. The skeletal bones are ruled by Capricorn/Saturn. The ears as a region are ruled by Taurus (Venus), although the 'hearing function' is attributed to Mercury. Natal Mars is on the degree of the hyoid muscle in the neck(Ebertin).

The chart shows Mars in Taurus, square Sun and opposite Pluto
The Ascending sign is Capricorn with its ruler, Saturn opposing Moon.
The 6th house is ruled by Gemini. Its ruler, Mercury, makes one adverse aspect, a within orb semi-square to Venus.
All the planets pertaining to your physical problem seem to be connected in some way.
The grand trine between Mercury-Mars-Saturn could well suggest 'a strong jaw line', the muscles working 'to keep the head high'?
There are no planets in the air signs.

Ascendant and 6th house have definite associations with the physical body.
Harsh aspects can relate to a predispostion towards a physical complaint, the circumstances/symptoms of which can arise during activation by transits and/or progressions.

You mention 5 years ago.
During 2006/7 Saturn transited Leo, where it conjoined natal Venus and Sun, activating their aspects. It retrograded on 25 Leo in Dec. 2006, activating Mars square Sun again end June thru July 2007.

What makes the Saturn effect more effective is that during 2005, progressed Venus had reached 22*Leo to activate over a 3 year period the natal Mars square Sun. Transit Saturn was therfore also conjunct progressed Venus. In the same year, progressed Mercury turned retrograde!!!! On top of all that, progressed Moon was working its way through Capricorn and into Aquarius, emotionally activating all aspects on its way.

Perhaps you can look back to what may have seen the beginning of a difficult period for you, especially in mentally relating to another, and recall anything occuring that could have set things in motion regarding your jaw. If you are proficient in astrological symbolism, you might even be able to place people to a planet and circumstances to a house?

By coincidence progressed Sun and Mercury conjoin on 15*Virgo in the 8th house this year, thereby activating natal Pluto. Progressed Jupiter has reached and cojoined natal Venus. The house rulerships could suggest necessary medical attention. But also a good time to deal with and clear away any deep-seated (emotional) issues that make you gnash your teeth.:wink:
 
Mandy

Mandy

Well-known member
Hi! A non-astrological insert. I am just wondering whether you still have your wisdom teeth? For years I had incredible pain in my jaw whenever I had to open my mouth (a blessing to many who know me j/k), wide, like as if to bite a sandwich or yawn. Then, also pain closing it back again. It was so irritating!!!! Then, my dentist suggested I have my wisdom teeth taken out and after I did, four years ago, I have never had the pain again, not even for a second. I know from my operation (I was put to sleep for the procedure) that wisdom teeth can be pretty tight to the nerves, which can affect any manoeuvre, or pain, that you experience. Maybe yours are too tight?
 
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Mark

Mark

Well-known member
Zonark: You are right to shrug off those surgical options. Surgery is supposed to be considered a last resort when all else fails. Some doctors just don't care, though. I would love to give them the benefit of the doubt, but I know better. There are some doctors who have gotten angry because another doctor solved a simple problem much more simply and so the patient didn't need nor want the surgery that was encouraged. It is truly ridiculous how callous and selfish many doctors can be, yet the general public trusts anybody in a white coat (because they have no other choice but educating themselves). Life would be so much easier if karma were instantaneous.

Mandy is thinking along the right lines. Nerve pressure makes much more sense for this kind of affliction than anything else. If there isn't a dental problem, then my next thoughts would be nerves and muscles. There may still be a simpler explanation, though. The symptoms you describe match very well for excessive tension (which manifests first in the face, jaw, and neck). It just usually doesn't last for five years. Perhaps it might be a fruitful exercise to think back about the time that this started and note any changes in your personality. Is there anything around that point in your life that could cause you to emotionally "lock up" for a long period of time? For the symptoms to last so long, it should be a change that you internalised and accepted as part of yourself since that point.
 
Y

Yuusha

Well-known member
@Zonark

In April 2011, I had a brief bout of teeth clenching following a stressful moment, but these days, I only have remnants of that habit (sometimes when I sleep with the wrong pillow or PMS). So I don't think this problem would last forever, I think it can fade away.

In my case, the trigger was a Mars Square Saturn transit I think.

In your case, I'm not sure what exactly may have contributed to your TMJ (temporomandibular joint disorder) problem. Perhaps it's Mars Square Pluto or Moon opposite Saturn or Saturn opposite Chiron in your natal chart.

What you have sounds like a really bad case of TMJ, it's like the pain between the neck, the jaw and the ear are linked.

Since this problem began 5 years ago, this bad habit has become deep-seated in your subconscious. What transits were you going through 5 years ago?

My recommendation is to try self-hypnosis with audio recordings. It has helped me so I hope it can help you as well. The reason why I mention self-hypnosis is because it has an impact on the subconscious. It is very hard to get rid of bad subconscious habits without hypnosis, even with conscious intentions.

I wasn't too thrilled when I heard that teeth clenching was "permanent", the feedback about mouthguards wasn't very reassuring, and the stories about deep dental problems resulting from teeth clenching or grinding were pretty scary. So I wanted to do things differently...

Mandy has mentioned wisdom teeth, which is an interesting point. Perhaps if you got rid of your wisdom teeth you would be able to move your jaw more easily?

In 2007, I got rid of my wisdom teeth following an x-ray scan indicating that one of my wisdom teeth was moving horizontally and thus my four wisdom teeth had to be removed immediately. Luckily, I had general anesthesia throughout the entire operation, so I didn't feel a thing. It took a few days to get used to eating solids again, but it was fine.
 
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Mandy

Mandy

Well-known member
If you decide to have this procedure done, ensure that you do not go to a freshly qualified maxillofacial surgeon/dentist, because if the nerve is close to the tooth and they damage the nerve in extracting the tooth, it could leave you with no sensation in your lips. I know it sounds a bit OTT, but be mindful, and go to someone you know is experienced.
 
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Claire19

Claire19

Well-known member
Zonark said:
I though I might get some interesting astrological input on a problem I've had with my jaw for about 5 years now. I can't close it fully, so I have to bite using my front incisors. My jaw has a great deal of stress on it, either because it can't close or for some other reason. My whole neck and face have a constant dull pain and I find making any sort of facial expression exacerbates the pain. I have a high pitched ring in my ear, either due to this or something else. Not sure if it is related though. I've woken up with my jaw clenched like a vice or my teeth gnashing together.

I've received at least 7 medical doctor's opinions on the issue, all completely different with widely varying approaches to treatment. The surgical ones I have not tried but among them included snapping the jaw in half and rewiring it (sounds incredibly stupid and not worth my time) cutting right through the bone on each side and shortening the lower jaw then pinning it back together (sounds even more ridiculous), cutting open the joint and excoriating scar tissue and ossified bone so the joint has more mobility (sounds rational enough), injecting saline into the joint then moving it back into place by force (sounds brutish and ridiculous), using biofeedback to relax the muscles (would like to try, unsure if it's worth the expense), physical therapy (couldn't hurt I suppose but unlikely to fix the problem) and I think that's about it.

Last doctor I saw told me I may have to deal with this for the rest of my life. While I'm okay with that, I'd rather get it fixed if possible.

Here's my chart, I can remove all those extra bodies if it helps;
Click to expand...
Yes I would get rid of all those asteroids and fixed stars, I dont use them....
I see you have Saturn of the bone structure in the 1st and Neptune close to the ascendant. I have to say that I think it was caused during your birth and the doctor may have been heavy handed in some way.. .Only surmising..... and the weakness has come to the fore recently maybe due to extra stress.

I dont see how anyone here can give medical advice and really shouldnt.
But I will look further into the chart and get back to you.
If you can post just the planets on the chart... and with the transits for the time you mentioned...
 
Claire19

Claire19

Well-known member
Mandy said:
If you decide to have this procedure done, ensure that you do not go to a freshly qualified maxillofacial surgeon/dentist, because if the nerve is close to the tooth and they damage the nerve in extracting the tooth, it could leave you with no sensation in your lips. I know it sounds a bit OTT, but be mindful, and go to someone you know is experienced.
Click to expand...
Exactly!! It affects the way you eat and talk etc, very important.
 
Claire19

Claire19

Well-known member
silverfish said:
I really struggled to read that chart. Normally I ignore any question when the chart is pockmarked with asteroids, just not worth my time trying to read it. The charts on this forum are so small that I can't even read the tabular form of the planets and their degrees and signs. I was trying to find where Jupiter was, and the Moons nodes.....

Anyway with the best will in the world, that chart isn't readable. I just can't see the relevant stuff, and I did try.

I noticed that sometimes teeth and bones are affected by Jupiter rather than Saturn as most people expect. But without being able to see your chart I can't tell what is going on here.
Click to expand...
Jupiter in Capricorn perhaps but not otherwise unless connected to Saturn as it exaggerates whatever it touches....Yes he will hopefully post a clearer relevant chart..... I have asked him to...The charts dont have to be small, it the way they are loaded by the individual.
 
Claire19

Claire19

Well-known member
silverfish said:
Currently there is a transit of Chiron around 1 degrees Pisces and Saturn 29 degrees Libra. Neptune in 1 degree Pisces is a big transit that should heal your Jupiter. Also Transpluto in 1 degree Virgo. There are so many helpful transits to your Jupiter and its Antiscion, 1 degree Gemini, that the healing could have a deep effect on you.

(Apologies for separate posts, but when I tried to edit a post I lost what I had written, twice).
Click to expand...
We only take notice of transits that have a natal echo remember.
I think you are going down the wrong path with Jupiter.....it doesnt deal with the jaw or the bones..... It is his Saturn in the 1st that is the issue as well as other aspects....What you write doesnt make any sense to me, sorry... But we do have the medical disclaimer thankfully.
 
Zonark

Zonark

Well-known member
silverfish said:
I really struggled to read that chart. Normally I ignore any question when the chart is pockmarked with asteroids, just not worth my time trying to read it. The charts on this forum are so small that I can't even read the tabular form of the planets and their degrees and signs. I was trying to find where Jupiter was, and the Moons nodes.....

Anyway with the best will in the world, that chart isn't readable. I just can't see the relevant stuff, and I did try.

I noticed that sometimes teeth and bones are affected by Jupiter rather than Saturn as most people expect. But without being able to see your chart I can't tell what is going on here.
Click to expand...

Sorry about the difficult chart! I guess considering your other posts you ended up just using it anyway? Here, this is the chart with just the traditional planets and no wonky asteroids;

showgif.cgi
 
Zonark

Zonark

Well-known member
silverfish said:
Ok, off the top of my head, though I prefer to get an overview of the whole chart.

Did this problem start around the age of fifteen or sixteen, when your Solar Arc descendant progressed to your natal Jupiter (29 degrees Cancer?). Solar Arcs are the chart's angles moved forward or backwards one degree per year of life.
Click to expand...

Yes this did start around that time. There was a lot of factors going into this problem, not just physical trauma. A lot of stress.

silverfish said:
The good news is that your Jupiter's antiscion, 1 degree Gemini roughly, gets a Solar Arc progression from your lower Midheaven at roughly age 22. Even a small transit to your Jupiter could trigger a healing.

Can't those doctors give you an exact diagnosis, yet they want to carve you up? Try a good cranial osteopath or acupuncturist. I have seen somebody healed of a tortocolis, wry neck, in an instant by a very talented acupuncturist and people have had to wear horrible contraptions for years to no avail with that.
Click to expand...

They all seem rather eager to put me under the knife. I guess I just look that frightening :lol:

I have seen a craniosacral massage therapist and she did help but I only went to 2 sessions due to the insurance payment difficulty. I've also received a few treatments from a friend who is an excellent acupuncturist and it did help a bit, but he's not as amazing as the kind of acupuncturist you refer to! If I find an acupuncturist with that much skill I'll be blown away, my mother has a very difficult spasmodic tortocolis issue that has really been a burden on her. If you happen to know anyone in particular and wouldn't mind dropping a name, I'd be interested.

silverfish said:
Currently there is a transit of Chiron around 1 degrees Pisces and Saturn 29 degrees Libra. Neptune in 1 degree Pisces is a big transit that should heal your Jupiter. Also Transpluto in 1 degree Virgo. There are so many helpful transits to your Jupiter and its Antiscion, 1 degree Gemini, that the healing could have a deep effect on you.

(Apologies for separate posts, but when I tried to edit a post I lost what I had written, twice).
Click to expand...

That's very promising and gives me a lot of hope, especially when the last surgeon I went to basically told me I'd have to live with this for the rest of my life. Jupiter's always been a somewhat curious aspect of my chart.
 
Zonark

Zonark

Well-known member
Frisiangal said:
Disclaimer: I am not medically trained, whereby any information offered is derived from the rules applied to astrological symbolism as it pertains to the branch of astrology that deals with health issues. The personal focus is through the modern rather than traditional perspective and implies that physical disorder/disease is not ‘automatically’ written into a chart but can be a result of mismanagement of planetary energy.



Hi,
According to my medical astrology books, the upper jaw is ruled by Aries (Mars influence), although there is some specualtion that it falls under Taurus. The lower jaw is ruled by Taurus(Venus influence), as is the neck. The skeletal bones are ruled by Capricorn/Saturn. The ears as a region are ruled by Taurus (Venus), although the 'hearing function' is attributed to Mercury. Natal Mars is on the degree of the hyoid muscle in the neck(Ebertin).

The chart shows Mars in Taurus, square Sun and opposite Pluto
The Ascending sign is Capricorn with its ruler, Saturn opposing Moon.
The 6th house is ruled by Gemini. Its ruler, Mercury, makes one adverse aspect, a within orb semi-square to Venus.
All the planets pertaining to your physical problem seem to be connected in some way.
The grand trine between Mercury-Mars-Saturn could well suggest 'a strong jaw line', the muscles working 'to keep the head high'?
There are no planets in the air signs.

Ascendant and 6th house have definite associations with the physical body.
Harsh aspects can relate to a predispostion towards a physical complaint, the circumstances/symptoms of which can arise during activation by transits and/or progressions.

You mention 5 years ago.
During 2006/7 Saturn transited Leo, where it conjoined natal Venus and Sun, activating their aspects. It retrograded on 25 Leo in Dec. 2006, activating Mars square Sun again end June thru July 2007.

What makes the Saturn effect more effective is that during 2005, progressed Venus had reached 22*Leo to activate over a 3 year period the natal Mars square Sun. Transit Saturn was therfore also conjunct progressed Venus. In the same year, progressed Mercury turned retrograde!!!! On top of all that, progressed Moon was working its way through Capricorn and into Aquarius, emotionally activating all aspects on its way.

Perhaps you can look back to what may have seen the beginning of a difficult period for you, especially in mentally relating to another, and recall anything occuring that could have set things in motion regarding your jaw. If you are proficient in astrological symbolism, you might even be able to place people to a planet and circumstances to a house?

By coincidence progressed Sun and Mercury conjoin on 15*Virgo in the 8th house this year, thereby activating natal Pluto. Progressed Jupiter has reached and cojoined natal Venus. The house rulerships could suggest necessary medical attention. But also a good time to deal with and clear away any deep-seated (emotional) issues that make you gnash your teeth.:wink:
Click to expand...

Much of what you said about Mars in Taurus and my earth Grand Trine resonated and that does help clarify what the problem could be.

The italicized portion of your post is particularly interesting. During the time all this happened I was in the midst of my parents divorcing over some very difficult issues, myself the oldest child of four and my father, the one we all wanted extricated from our lives was a very trying person to relate to at the time. I'll keep it short and sweet like that. I'm not sure I am using the astro.com progressed chart tool correctly, but my Moon and Ascendant could've been directly conjunct my North Node during this time, in the first house and in Aquarius I see this suggesting a strange emotional crisis with impacts on my physical form related to the beginning of a more complex problem. Not sure though.

I do hope that last progressed aspect is going to result in healing.
 
Zonark

Zonark

Well-known member
silverfish said:
Zonark, which country are you in? Anywhere they have brilliant acupuncturists and cranial osteopaths?
Click to expand...

USA, more charlatans than anything. What with the mainstream medical opinion so heavily critical of such approaches, there's an almost defeatist dichotomy where practitioners of "alternative" medicine perform exactly as the American Medical Association expects them to. That's been my experience of it anyway. It could be an energetic influence indirectly related to the magnetism of the Northwestern hemisphere, I don't know.
 
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