Will he ever want to be serious?

Ok, thanks Ray. Deception had been such an ugly theme in my past relationships that it truly frightens me to think of it occurring again. Maybe the deception is that I'm imagining/hoping he is further along emotionally than he really is. He isn't ready for what I want.

misskitty said:

Maybe the deception is that I'm imagining/hoping he is further along emotionally than he really is. He isn't ready for what I want.

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Yes! I actually think that's moreso the case since this is something you're aware of.

I don't know anything about interpreting horary charts, but I am familiar with the concept. And, based on the concept, my intuition tells me the you should use the first chart, because it was not a 'mistake'. Just my 2 cents

Maira said:

I don't know anything about interpreting horary charts, but I am familiar with the concept. And, based on the concept, my intuition tells me the you should use the first chart, because it was not a 'mistake'. Just my 2 cents

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I don't believe the first chart is valid at all, horary is very specific.

I understand it is a no, what I don't get is why there is no reception. I was under the impression that he cares for me a great deal.

I'm not good with advice charts, so I turned to tarot and did the three card spread. I got the Lovers in past position. Nine of Swords (depression, worry) in present position, and Ace of Cups (good karma, fertility, marriage) in the future position. No cards were reversed. I'm so confused.

Interesting about the 1st chart: the stricture I follow re to SN in the ascending sign, says that the given chart is unreliable for horary delineation: well it was in this case, the wrong date being used; I have experienced this phenomenon several times, with SN in ascending sign and the horary chart being erected for the wrong time (once it was for the wrong location)


Since you have done a Tarot reading about the matter, I shall convert your 2nd horary's astro-data into a Major Arcana symbol and see what that might have to say...

Wow, I am new to tarot so I didn't know that could be done. Where can I read about this? It is interesting that your stricture showed that the first chart shouldn't be read!

Edit: I found your thread on it. If you convert my correct chart I believe the card is... Temperance. How fitting!

Temperance-that's it!
I have found this symbolic approach to horary (and other types of) charts to provide additional and often valuable insights into the matter under consideration.

I am heartbroken. For anyone who wants to try to find where this update occurs in the chart, remember to look at the second one I posted because the first was the wrong chart.

He informed me today that the trip will not happen becuase of unforeseen circumstances at work. When I got upset, he broke it off with me by saying he is not ready for a relationship!! I feel blindsided (Neptune). I am thinking "is that it?? Three years Of close friendship and a relationship and this is how it ends??" What a waste. :'( I have no idea if he will be back or not.

Granted, I am not feeling the most objective right now, but I don't see any obvious timing in the chart for this occurence. I see that it's probably signified by moon opposed Neptune, but the 4 something doesn't pan out. Maybe because moon is fixed and slow.

Sorry to hear the news!
Certainly the symbol Temperance applies for YOU and as a guideline for your response, at this time.
I will look at the second chart to see if I spot anything (using my alternative approach)
Hang in there!!

He is in the pitted degree, right? I just can't believe how cruel and callous he was when I expressed vulnerability to him. I feel I have lost my best friend. Thank you for the encouragement, but I just can't believe something I thought was going so well could turn so bad so quickly.

misskitty said:

He informed me today that the trip will not happen becuase of unforeseen circumstances at work.

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That would be Sun applying to Combust Mars ruling the 9th.

misskitty said:

When I got upset, he broke it off with me by saying he is not ready for a relationship!! I feel blindsided (Neptune). I am thinking "is that it?? Three years Of close friendship and a relationship and this is how it ends??" What a waste. :'( I have no idea if he will be back or not.

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Your Sun squares his Saturn, and Saturn receives Sun, but Saturn is Libra the Sun's Detriment.

misskitty said:

Granted, I am not feeling the most objective right now, but I don't see any obvious timing in the chart for this occurence.

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I do. Sun's about 13° from Saturn. You cast the chart on December 24, so 13+ days would be about January 7th or so he decided although you didn't find out until a few days later.

He's going on the trip (Venus trine Jupiter).

BobZemco said:

He's going on the trip (Venus trine Jupiter).

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Twist the knife...

If that is true, and of course anything is possible, I don't think it is something he foresees right now. Otherwise, why would he tell me that since the trip was already paid for then I should feel free to go without him?? Of course I declined, and maybe he knew I would. his company offered to reimburse him for the trip's expense since it was their scheduling mixup. Could that also be the Jupiter/Venus trine? It would make sense as well since Jupiter is his turned 2nd houe of money/possessions.

Venus is in detriment and Jupiter is in the 8th house... doesn't sound like a happy go lucky vacation to me, if he does go.

Thanks for helping me understand the timing.

perhaps it would be good if he did go on the trip.. so he could find out what is missing while he is there... sometimes men have to find their cave

It would be too late I'm afraid, DiDi. Our history is such that this is the 3rd vacation he has scheduled with me and subsequently cancelled for some reason or another. This time, I really felt we had turned the corner and things were different. Nope. He is still playing games. I can't express the devastation I am feeling right now, but we've all been there so nothing new. But no, our relationship won't recover.

This morning I wrote an email to him that was pretty nasty, and then remembered my Temperance card warning. I saved the message and asked the question "should I send this message?"

The clear answer is no. My ASC is too early (although I must also add that my NATAL Ascendant is 1* and Lilly says that you can use early degrees if it matches the querent's natal). My Moon is about to change signs into a cardinal one signifying a volatile, changing situation. Then I was stunned to learn that once again, my Major Arcana symbol for this horary is- you guessed it- TEMPERANCE. What are the odds of getting that twice in a row on different charts?

I can't allow him back after what he just did, but it is very difficult to sit on my hands and not defend myself after a situation as unjust as the one that just occurred-- happened. He was LOOKING for a reason to get out, and his self-righteous self thought he found it. That is that.

What I want to know is what the Moon Trine my Venus means. Venus is my co-significator, right, so does this bode well for me as far as feeling better soon or being better off?

Forgive me for yet another chart. But since the other one played out and the activity occured, I felt it was okay to go ahread with another one.

I understand where you are ( mentally) in this situation.

I know you know my past problems with mr non committment man, and pulling away when they feel themselves getting closer... yada yada yada

Thats all fine for some to say well they wouldnt pull away when if they wernt getting closer.. but no You cant go on like that it destroys you as a person to go through all those emotions meantime and ... they can go on for years and years and your left at some age where its harder to start again like me.. my child bearing years are over now... too late if he did come back and wanted a child.. you know what im saying?

so looking at the chart...WHICH IS A GOOD ONE THAT SHOWS YOUR CIRCUMSTANCES BY THE WAY
your 3rd of communication is "mars" lol of all rulers and your asc just passing it, showing you moving away from the idea of sending the email.
good call by the way because i feel as angry as you are you have the power still if you keep your cool detached personality... they get confused by this.
HES the sun blinding your communication mars... you fear what the email will do to the relationship.

moon is in critical condition and is about to change like you said i notice that it will hit pof in 10 thats allways good.

Ist it that the moon being the timer only performs till around 5 deg into the new sign? just wondering on that one as you know more about horay than me... but if so then yeah it trines venus... im not sure if this means anthing but venus is in mars,s house so perhaps there will be more communication of this matter... not sure when is the trip booked for?

is venus your second sig because saturn is in libra?

its also his 3rd ruler of communications?

DiDi said:

so looking at the chart...WHICH IS A GOOD ONE THAT SHOWS YOUR CIRCUMSTANCES BY THE WAY
your 3rd of communication is "mars" lol of all rulers and your asc just passing it, showing you moving away from the idea of sending the email.
good call by the way because i feel as angry as you are you have the power still if you keep your cool detached personality...

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Yeah, I'm an Aries, too. Just to give you an idea of how difficult this silence is for me. That's a good point about maintaining my power... I DO have power in the chart. I'm Saturn exalted in Libra and I'm technically int he 9th house, which is benefic. HE is Sun, and in Fall of Saturn. Not to mention in the sign of MY rulership, and in the cadent 12th house. He doesn't have power.

As for the Moon applying to Venus... I have never heard of the 5 degree rule for changing signs, but I am always learning, too. I have always heard that you should only take into account the aspect immediately after it changes signs. I have had a chart "work" like this before and gave a correct answer.

But what does it mean... I took Venus as my 2nd significator simply because Venus is often considered the secondary significator of women. It also rules my 9th house, and it rules his 3rd house. So I really don't know what it means. The vacation was scheduled for February 17th. I am sure he will contact me again, but I can't see any reason of why my reaction to it would be a trine, so I am unsure what it means. Perhaps you are right, simply more communication regarding the now defunct vacation.

Thank you DiDi. I hate that you are in a similar situation. It is very painful, which is why I have to decide right now to stop beating my head against the wall. 3 years is enough.

Interesting how in the first chart you were Sun and he was Saturn and this one is you're Saturn and he's Sun.
Your sig is not in good shape, although exalted, it's cadent (It's really in the 9th house) and is also via combusta ....moreover it's in the sign of Sun's fall.
Mars ruler of your 3rd near the ascendant just shows your anger in typing the email. Mars in the 12th to me is just another indicator not to send.
Good that you wrote it to release the anger but probably not a good idea to send it.

3 years is a long time and no one understands this more than me... I hung around for nearly 9 years but only cause it suited me at the time and we did get closer and we matured together thats why i stayed.. but when it came time for me to want more... he didnt want to loose me but didnt want to committ.. (to anyone)
so its been just over a year and even though we have not spoken, I know there would have been a committment if this man was able to give one. And so I know that breaking it off was the only choice.

the reason im bring it up is not for attention but to bring similarities to it. Yeah i know aries...lol i love them he is an aries so is my son and my past employer .... I love aries... but flaming up only to put yourself out later and regret it wont do to loose your power in this.
cause once you give them the excuse not to like you they dont have to think about there reasons they cant committ... so if you dont give them a reason to dislike you or your actions they have to look at themselves once they are ready.
whats his sun and moon?

Serendipity said:

....moreover it's in the sign of Sun's fall.

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I'm confused. Wouldn't this be bad for him, not me? I thought that was showing my anger and distrust for him. It has been almost a week, and my feelings are unchanged. I see no value in continuing even a friendship with him. I never sent the email, nor have I sent any other communication. I have heard nothing from him, which confuses me because I thought from the trine from Moon to Venus (his 3rd) it might mean I would hear from him. I do not want to reconcile, but I am confused as to how I am supposed to put something behind me when I have no closure. I can't shake the feeling that I want to tell him off for good!!! Silence just makes me feel like I am letting him off easy. Didi- he is Virgo Sun, Gemini Moon.

Being in someone's fall I interpret as not being good for them in some way shape or form... or perhaps in this sense we can interpret it as having different ideas as to where the relationship is going.
As far as closure, it's not really something that someone can give you. It happens over time and you give it to yourself.

I can't shake the feeling that I want to tell him off for good!!! Silence just makes me feel like I am letting him off easy

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Cool the Aries in you... I have an Aries Moon so I know this feeling
Sometimes silence says more than words. If you tell him off he may try to justify it as a reason for breaking up. Don't give it to him. Maintain the silence and more importantly, dignity.

Not sure the Moon trine Venus will amount to anything. It doesn't perfect until it gets to Aries at which point the Moon is in sign of Venus detriment. Venus wouldn't receive.