Accurate time of birth/ Is It posible to know????

A simple but very crucial question is this ;

How could we know the accurate time of our birth??

Our parents told us BUT do they know the exact time??

While our mothers are in pain , breathing and pushing to bring us to light do they look at the clock?? No they do not!!!!

Does the doctor look?? No he doesn't, he's job is to hold the baby's head.

Until baby gets out of momy's body and everyone be sure that the baby is ok noone watches the clock. Am i wrong?

And which is the right moment to start counding our life on earth? The moment that the head has came out, the moment that the whole body came out or the moment we had been conceived by our parents?? (Some say that our soul enters the fetal body on the 4th month of pregnancy)

How sure can we be that our parents has told us the exact time?

Should we cast more than one charts using defferent time? 1-2 minuits back and 1-2 minutes forth?

Asteroid,
Most people use the time that the hospital recorded the birth.It will be on your birth certificate. I would never accept a time given by a mother as we know how preoccupied they would be with giving birth!
Hospitals where I live charge a very small fee to provide the info-it's worth it!
Lilly

Yes, I know your pain! It is very difficult! Even after getting a hospital time, transits never seemed to be on key, and I wasn't totally sure about the AC. It's at the end 27d. My sister said on the other day that she's convinced I do not have the AC the hospital time gives. She said I should not accept it. Another astrologer on here who doesn't live that far from me said that their hospital time was about 6 hours off what his/her entire family agreed upon...and every member of my family who were near my birth all have a slightly different time.

Yes, I know this mess! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

lillyjgc said:

Asteroid,
Most people use the time that the hospital recorded the birth.It will be on your birth certificate. I would never accept a time given by a mother as we know how preoccupied they would be with giving birth!
Hospitals where I live charge a very small fee to provide the info-it's worth it!
Lilly

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Dear Lilly ,

You are right
However not all the hospitals are so well organised, even the best ones. Here in Greece only the last few years write down the birth time in the certificates. For the rest of us born before 90's it is unlikely to be sure the accurate one. Most of my firends don't know even the exact hour not just the miniuts.... i don't mension the seconds hahaha

But i do not trust hospitals eather if they write it down or not!!!

So,

What i am asking is a suggestion , how we could handle with this and how could our chart and our conclusion on it could be affected???


Thank u anyway for your reply

byjove said:

Yes, I know your pain! It is very difficult! Even after getting a hospital time, transits never seemed to be on key, and I wasn't totally sure about the AC. It's at the end 27d. My sister said on the other day that she's convinced I do not have the AC the hospital time gives. She said I should not accept it. Another astrologer on here who doesn't live that far from me said that their hospital time was about 6 hours off what his/her entire family agreed upon...and every member of my family who were near my birth all have a slightly different time.

Yes, I know this mess! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

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You better trust your familly...........
our countries have so much in common in matters of organization

asteroid said:

A simple but very crucial question is this ;

How could we know the accurate time of our birth??

Our parents told us BUT do they know the exact time??

While our mothers are in pain , breathing and pushing to bring us to light do they look at the clock?? No they do not!!!!

Click to expand...

My birth time is not recorded on my birth certificate due to the fact that I was born at Christ Hospital. Many Catholic and other religious based hospitals did not record birth times because of their stance against astrology.

My mother and grandmother told me my birth-time, and it is accurate to within a few seconds of time.

asteroid said:

Does the doctor look?? No he doesn't, he's job is to hold the baby's head.

Until baby gets out of momy's body and everyone be sure that the baby is ok noone watches the clock. Am i wrong?

Click to expand...

Yes, you're wrong. Typical policy around the world for the last several decades is for two people to call the birth time, just as two people call the time of death. Most modern hospitals use a fetal monitor and there is a nurse staring at it, and it displays the time.

asteroid said:

And which is the right moment to start counding our life on earth? The moment that the head has came out, the moment that the whole body came out or the moment we had been conceived by our parents?? (Some say that our soul enters the fetal body on the 4th month of pregnancy)

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None of the above. It's first breath.

asteroid said:

How sure can we be that our parents has told us the exact time?

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Look at transits, progressions and directions for significant events. If you lack the objectivity to decide which events are significant and which are not, ask someone who is objective.

asteroid said:

Should we cast more than one charts using defferent time? 1-2 minuits back and 1-2 minutes forth?

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No, an experienced astrologer can just eyeball the chart.

All planets have a certain movement rate while transiting, while progressing and while directing.

Not all events will show exact aspects, but within one degree of arc is reasonable.

My experience in this subject is that you must not trust your parents or the exact time that hospital gave you. I suggest to rectify your chart upon your life. I do that starting by job interests, appearance, career, financials etc. In Carol's Rushman book I read that when Mars hit the Asc always gives you a small accident. This is the true degree of your Asc. I found that my Asc had an inclination a few minutes of degree.

Bob,

Yes, you're wrong. Typical policy around the world for the last several decades is for two people to call the birth time, just as two people call the time of death. Most modern hospitals use a fetal monitor and there is a nurse staring at it, and it displays the time.

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I tend to agree with you. It's baby first breath. In UK it's not common pracits to use fetal monitors at all and it's bit more lacksidaisiclye (if this is the correct word) If you are a twin or born it Scotland birth time is recorded though. Generally, espec since computers came in, the time is recorded and we are all guilty of rounding things up. I did with my children, one was born 3.50am and 4.42am so I said one was born quarter to four and the other quarter to five----

The best and most common use of rectifying a birth time is solar arcs --

Solar arcs are really simple, especially for beginners, just move the Angles, Asc, Desc, MC, IC 1' for each year of your life onto planets and vice versa. Not just used for rectification either. Under age 12 though these interpretations are directed towards family changes, maybe relocation, job changes, illnesses, additions to family etc. Another example is my Pluto is 28' Leo in 7th house and my Uranus is 3' Leo in same house to subtract these and you get age 25. That year my then husband and I had an almighty explosion (Uranus) and transformation (Pluto) of that marriage that started the demise and ultimate ending thereof....

Further research on solar arcs try these threads.
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12024&highlight=solar+arcs
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12958&highlight=solar+arcs
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6691&highlight=solar+arcs
http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/rectification.html
http://www.frankstar.com/solararc.htm
http://thezodiac.com/arcs.htm
http://www.donmc.com/Comparing%20Transits%20and%20Solar%20Arcs%20II.htm
http://en.mimi.hu/astrology/solar_arc_directions.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_progression


Rectification of birth time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW0G2S2Ti4I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYMX9X2C1BQ&NR=1
· Transiting Pluto square, conj opp Asc, Desc, MC, IC
· If under 12’ when it conj an Angle then their age was under age 12 it’s parents adjustments. A death, change within father’s work, a separation, remarriage.
· Adults or teens, 1st job, identity transformation MC.
· Pluto conj Desc = death, health concerns, geographic, significant relationship or break up, but has to be ‘life transforming’
· Also try transiting Neptune, something dissolving, disappearing, confusing etc.
· Timings of transits… is it the 1st hit? More often it’s the middle retrograde hit… but could be the last direct hit also. 1’ =4minutes in time.

I'm working on transiting Mars at the minute, and one time looked promising. But then I took to tansiting Saturn (conjunct AC) which presents another. Maybe give them a go too?

docker said:

My experience in this subject is that you must not trust your parents or the exact time that hospital gave you. I suggest to rectify your chart upon your life. I do that starting by job interests, appearance, career, financials etc. In Carol's Rushman book I read that when Mars hit the Asc always gives you a small accident. This is the true degree of your Asc. I found that my Asc had an inclination a few minutes of degree.

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Docker is right. You don't need to stress over this question. An accurate birth chart does not depend completely on an exactly accurate time of birth. I can get accurate birth charts more often than the avg astrologer even if I am given only a general time of day, say, "afternoon." I have made verification/rectification my specialty and it involves the kinds of things that Docker just mentioned. There is a way to not only verify the correct signs are over the Asc/MC, but the correct degree.

Thank u all guys,

I will try verification hoping that i will make it out!!!!!

astrologer50 said:

. . .
Rectification of birth time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW0G2S2Ti4I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYMX9X2C1BQ&NR=1
· Transiting Pluto square, conj opp Asc, Desc, MC, IC
· If under 12’ when it conj an Angle then their age was under age 12 it’s parents adjustments. A death, change within father’s work, a separation, remarriage.
· Adults or teens, 1st job, identity transformation MC.
· Pluto conj Desc = death, health concerns, geographic, significant relationship or break up, but has to be ‘life transforming’
· Also try transiting Neptune, something dissolving, disappearing, confusing etc.
· Timings of transits… is it the 1st hit? More often it’s the middle retrograde hit… but could be the last direct hit also. 1’ =4minutes in time.

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I walked out on my x on 10/27/2007 and that day I had Mars 1* past the DSC and Nep directly opposite Sun and Merc 1*retro past the MC.

Would you all say to rectify the chart I would move those signs directly onto the angle?

Teb said:

I walked out on my x on 10/27/2007 and that day I had Mars 1* past the DSC and Nep directly opposite Sun and Merc 1*retro past the MC.

Would you all say to rectify the chart I would move those signs directly onto the angle?

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Maybe. What was the Moon doing? For transiting charts, the Moon is often the timer, as it will typically make a near exact aspect.

If you use Solar Arcs, make sure you're using the correct arc rate.

If you stand on the Equator facing East on the Spring Equinox, the Sun will rise directly in front of you. Every day after that, the Sun will appear to rise slight farther to the left (North), until one day the Sun appears to stand-still. That is the Solstice, or the Sun's Northing Point.

From that day on, the Sun will appear to rise slightly to the right (South), until it reaches the Equator on the Autumn Equinox, and then continue moving right until it reaches the Solstice, or the Sun's Southing Point.

The point being the Sun's arc isn't the same everywhere on Earth. Depending on the season you were born (Spring/Summer or Fall/Winter) and how far North/South of the Equator, the Solar Arc can range between 54' to 1*06' of arc.

My Solar Arc is slightly slow and moves at the rate of 57' of arc per year. That isn't necessarily a big deal, and many astrologers ignore it, but for someone over the age of 30 years whose arc is 1*01', those extra minutes of arc add up, so if your doing a chart for some aged 50, and you're just doing an eye-ball Solar Arc and adding 1*, the, um, "timing" could possibly be off by as much as 50' or more.

I think what we're seeing here is some bizarre obsession or fixation to have the transits and what not match exactly. Astrology is not for the anal retentive or the obsessive-compulsive.

You'll waste a lot of time for nothing, because every event in your life is not going to match every transit, progression or arc exactly.

I was born in Chicago - Aug. 16th, 1949. It was DST-- but I have been told that the Chicago many hospitals recorded birthtime CST ( central standard time)-- so on my birth certificate it says 1:40 AM CST-- I have always assumed that it was really 1:40 DST-- but I don't know???? It changes my ascendant from 29-50 Gemini, to 15 Cancer- so it's a pretty big deal. Is there any way to easily rectifly this? I have always gone with the Gemini asc., but???
Thanks to anyone who can help me with this. Both of my parents are dead and the hospital is no more, so-- I'm left alone with this one.

bob,

I think what we're seeing here is some bizarre obsession or fixation to have the transits and what not match exactly. Astrology is not for the anal retentive or the obsessive-compulsive.

You'll waste a lot of time for nothing, because every event in your life is not going to match every transit, progression or arc exactly.

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Well said, I quite agree

Problem is some people expect all transits to create *outer events* and is usually MC and/or Asc that do this -- most other transits happen internally, between the *ears*

Lastly, for something 'major' to happen, it should also be reflected in your transits, progressions and possibly solar arcs. So don't ignore these methods in favour of JUST transits

23Leo said:

I was born in Chicago - Aug. 16th, 1949. It was DST-- but I have been told that the Chicago many hospitals recorded birthtime CST ( central standard time)-- so on my birth certificate it says 1:40 AM CST-- I have always assumed that it was really 1:40 DST-- but I don't know???? It changes my ascendant from 29-50 Gemini, to 15 Cancer- so it's a pretty big deal. Is there any way to easily rectifly this? I have always gone with the Gemini asc., but???
Thanks to anyone who can help me with this. Both of my parents are dead and the hospital is no more, so-- I'm left alone with this one.

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There are no shortcuts in this, it's research, research and more research unfortunately. Do you identify with Cancer Asc traits? are you sensitive, moody and strongly attached to family and home? Gemini Asc quite often have had hard childhood and felt like square peg in round whole. Also Gemini are what I call the 'why' children, very inquisitive restless procrastinating and indecisive. What are you like at making decisions? cos gemini tends to project and get other people to make them for them.

BobZemco said:

...

I think what we're seeing here is some bizarre obsession or fixation to have the transits and what not match exactly. Astrology is not for the anal retentive or the obsessive-compulsive.

You'll waste a lot of time for nothing, because every event in your life is not going to match every transit, progression or arc exactly.

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Fair enough, that's reasonable. But are you saying we don't use transits to verify birth time? I'm not trying to annoy anyone - I hate when people do that. I'm simply confused, where does it begin, and where does it end? If you could sum up the process of verification for those of us (not necessarily anal retentive, but have family members who ALL dispute time of birth, and dispute hospital-given times) what would it be? Assuming that this thread is supposed to enlighten, educate and help teach...

astrologer50 said:

There are no shortcuts in this, it's research, research and more research unfortunately. Do you identify with Cancer Asc traits? are you sensitive, moody and strongly attached to family and home? Gemini Asc quite often have had hard childhood and felt like square peg in round whole. Also Gemini are what I call the 'why' children, very inquisitive restless procrastinating and indecisive. What are you like at making decisions? cos gemini tends to project and get other people to make them for them.

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I'm afraid I've discovered I'm no longer objective on this matter; I've been at this for so long...I'm numb. And I asked both my sisters this and one said Cancer Rising and the other Leo...

byjove said:

Fair enough, that's reasonable. But are you saying we don't use transits to verify birth time? I'm not trying to annoy anyone - I hate when people do that. I'm simply confused, where does it begin, and where does it end? If you could sum up the process of verification for those of us (not necessarily anal retentive, but have family members who ALL dispute time of birth, and dispute hospital-given times) what would it be? Assuming that this thread is supposed to enlighten, educate and help teach...

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yes.....

a simle examble step to step it would be very helpfull for nivce, if it is posible

byjove said:

I'm afraid I've discovered I'm no longer objective on this matter; I've been at this for so long...I'm numb. And I asked both my sisters this and one said Cancer Rising and the other Leo...

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I still stand by T Mars and T mercury over Asc and MC here to make diary notes. solar arcs are most effective in childhood, like bob says after age 30ish the arc is not as uniform depending on lat & long....