Evil Charts?

Dubyadude1986

Dubyadude1986

Well-known member
Noel Eastwood said:
Those abused people can become traumatised and develop PTSD and other psychological disorders, but they rarely become psychopaths.
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Thanks for clarifying that PTSD doesn't mean people are destined to become psychopaths. I have PTSD in addition to several aspects in my chart that would easily allow me to become tyrannical, however, other aspects in my chart give me the choice to use these aspects for more constructive things.

I have used my unflattering aspects to right wrongs ethically and pursue justice by means of whistleblowing vs something unethical or violent. Going after careers, not trying to harm people (for example of how you use aspects and traits). I have mars, pluto, and the moon in the 8th house; I also have Pisces as my ascendant.

The word harm is open to interpretation as is what is just or unjust; at the same time, to me hurting people's reputations and finances that participate in unjust, unethical, or corrupt activities is the method I prefer due to the fact that it obviously isn't illegal and I don't feel that it is particularly vindictive. These are the things they care about the most that I am able to effect (in my own psyche). For me, hit where it hurts but, in ways you're actually allowed to. That is how I use "it."

For every weakness, there is provided a strength (obviously there are genetic diseases and extreme unfortunate circumstances I am not referring to). Point is, what you "do" with "it" (whatever aspects) is a choice; so are the techniques you use to accomplish said things. (ethical, unethical?). Many things can be legal per say while still being deplorable as well...

Unflattering aspects may make people more "prone or vulnerable" to certain negative tendencies, but ultimately it's a choice. Human beings have free will and it is up to each person how they employ certain strengths and weaknesses.
 
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Noel Eastwood

Noel Eastwood

Premium Member
Dubyadude1986 said:
Thanks for clarifying that PTSD doesn't mean people are destined to become psychopaths. I have PTSD in addition to several aspects in my chart that would easily allow me to become tyrannical, however, other aspects in my chart give me the choice to use these aspects for more constructive things.

I have used my unflattering aspects to right wrongs ethically and pursue justice by means of whistleblowing vs something unethical or violent. Going after careers, not trying to harm people (for example of how you use aspects and traits). I have mars, pluto, and the moon in the 8th house; I also have Pisces as my ascendant.

The word harm is open to interpretation as is what is just or unjust; at the same time, to me hurting people's reputations and finances that participate in unjust, unethical, or corrupt activities is the method I prefer due to the fact that it obviously isn't illegal and I don't feel that it is particularly vindictive. These are the things they care about the most that I am able to effect (in my own psyche). For me, hit where it hurts but, in ways you're actually allowed to. That is how I use "it."

For every weakness, there is provided a strength (obviously there are genetic diseases and extreme unfortunate circumstances I am not referring to). Point is, what you "do" with "it" (whatever aspects) is a choice; so are the techniques you use to accomplish said things. (ethical, unethical?). Many things can be legal per say while still being deplorable as well...

Unflattering aspects may make people more "prone or vulnerable" to certain negative tendencies, but ultimately it's a choice. Human beings have free will and it is up to each person how they employ certain strengths and weaknesses.
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Dubyadude, thanks for your kind words, yes, it is absolutely up to the choices we make. Some people learn early in life that they can get away with abusing their power over others, these are the ones to watch out for.

As for the astrology chart, I agree with you that it shows our options and choices, strengths, weaknesses and opportunities, it doesn't show what we chose to do with it. Our choices are what we have to account for at our final reckoning.

I think that your 8th House demonstrates the enormous power you have. You can cut through the BS of this world and see things a lot clearer than most. I would say that it also shows you are very sensitive to people's moods and need to take time away from them to come back to balance. I bet your meditations are quite spectacular inside your 8th House :)

Standing up to wrong doing can be a dangerous act, it can cost you your career, I see it a lot in my work. Take care.
 
Dubyadude1986

Dubyadude1986

Well-known member
Noel Eastwood said:
Dubyadude, thanks for your kind words, yes, it is absolutely up to the choices we make. Some people learn early in life that they can get away with abusing their power over others, these are the ones to watch out for.

As for the astrology chart, I agree with you that it shows our options and choices, strengths, weaknesses and opportunities, it doesn't show what we chose to do with it. Our choices are what we have to account for at our final reckoning.

I think that your 8th House demonstrates the enormous power you have. You can cut through the BS of this world and see things a lot clearer than most. I would say that it also shows you are very sensitive to people's moods and need to take time away from them to come back to balance. I bet your meditations are quite spectacular inside your 8th House :)

Standing up to wrong doing can be a dangerous act, it can cost you your career, I see it a lot in my work. Take care.
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Thank you for yours just the same! Yes, very empathic to the energy around me. I know when people are upset with me for example even though they won't say anything, it is hard for me to remedy situations like those.

It also helps me know immediately who or what to avoid.

You are absolutely right there is risk involved with confronting injustice and things like this. Much research is advised in advance. For example, for what I will call "our" situation as millennial veterans or AD; US code 1034 comes in real handy: "No person may restrict a member of the armed forces in communicating with a Member of Congress or an Inspector General." "No persons" does include Generals and Secretaries of agencies and services.

When this happens, for example, this can be the expected outcome: http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/military/2015/04/10/fired-for-treason-comments/25569181/ :biggrin:

The other side of the coin is, people like to play getcha gotcha. Finding ways they are aloud to covertly retaliate like passing you over for promotion for example in the workplace. A certain element of not being worried about attained stature at the end of the day is also helpful.

I have decided that things such as how much money I make, my stature in any organization anywhere, people's opinions of me, etc. cannot be taken into account when deciding to do what's right. Once said boss realizes you could care less about these things, much leverage on their behalf has been lost. This is very helpful when said promotion is passed over for example. At the end of the day, the things that truly define us can never be taken away from us.

Being able to sleep good at night because your conscience doesn't keep you up, for example, is ours is keep. There are ways to work around or trump flattery conformism to the top such as education, running for an elected position, becoming a judge, - inserting yourself into some type of realm where you're able to directly effect what you are passionate about.

I especially like the education factor because it is relevant to many people's situations (most jobs take this into account) and once that boss with a BA that doesn't like you realizes you have completed a Masters (just as an example) and you apply for that new position/job, this makes their scope of reprisal incredibly less significant. That retaliatory boss may just end up working for the individual that was wronged one day. It all works out full circle in the end, especially when the cards are played right. :rightful:
 
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Dubyadude1986

Dubyadude1986

Well-known member
By the way, didn't mean to digress that much from the topic of "evil charts." But we agree, it's up to us how we employ the gifts and misfortunes dished out to us in our charts.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Would be interesting to study the "evil charts" of politicians who implement these kinds of decisions:

But there are too many! :smile:

11057291_977011725666642_1388030824320150_n.jpg
 
ukdesifem

ukdesifem

Well-known member
imho there's no such thing as an evil chart.

A native or person is really the sum of all of his or her aspects and placements.

There's no real pattern to say "s/he has x in y house! Worse than Stalin!!" doesn't work that way.
 
C

cspencer

Banned
kx5 said:
Having said all that, I remain puzzled. If I saw this chart without knowing whose chart it is, most likely I wouldn't have said that this person is a world-known serial killer, whose atrocities shocked the entire world and inspired many fictitious evil characters. Based on his chart, what do you believe adequately describes Gein's nature? And what could generally point to a criminally-inclined person?
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Seriously?

For starters you ignored the nocturnal Saturn, the Sun/Saturn opposition, the diurnal Moon in a masculine sign, the diurnal Mars, the Mercury/Mars conjunction, Moon trine Mercury/Mars, the diurnal Venus and the fact that Jupiter is disposited by a corrupted Moon.

Mars rules the 6th Place.

Osamenor said:
If a birth chart indicated evil, everyone born that same day would be evil.
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No, not even true.

There are more than 46,000,000,000,000,000 possible combinations/permutations of a birth chart.

Every birth-chart is as unique as your fingerprints or your DNA.

Kannon said:
There is no 'evil' in a birth chart. It is an arrangement of stars.

Each person acts from their own free will and is responsible for their own choices.
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The flaw in your claim is that we only need to look at past directions to see what happened to a native.
 
heidy26

heidy26

Well-known member
kx5 said:
What we've been saying so far is that charts/aspects/configurations cause predispositions to make certain decisions. A chart by itself does never 'define' what you're going to do. It simply highlights that, if (in keeping with the aforementioned example) you've got a nasty 4th, then certain situations in your life will create favourable ground and 'opportunities' for a bad childhood and subsequent sociopathic behaviour; unless you as a person become conscious of this, and decide to avoid being affected by potentially bad family conditions and/or avoid exhibiting psychopathy.
Few people are ever aware of the tendencies described in their natal charts, and as such they go along with them. This is what confuses many people and makes them believe that a 'chart' defines their life and destiny. But even without a chart, few people ever truly understand and know themselves well enough to stop a developing negative behaviour dead in its tracks. Those who do have simply realised that their natural affinities and tendencies will have a negative impact on society or even themselves, and thus won't let them take over. That doesn't mean a chart was inaccurate in describing what could have happened if they hadn't understood.

As far as I know, throughout the course of this thread, we've considered this information given and have not refrained from these basic principles while expressing our opinions on the matter.
However, if you do disagree, feel free to correct me.
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I do not disagree; but I cannot think of having blamed 4th house conditions to criminal and psychopatic personality.
From my experience, there's a huge percent of people with difficult childhood experiences; I don't think there are too many out there that have had a healthy and happy childhood.

The chart is the destiny; it sums up all the things you have been gifted with and also all the things that will happen, depending on the choices you make.
It will tell you how many marriages you'll have, how many kids, how is your spouse, where can you have success, on which aspects to focus in order to do that , etc. That doesn't mean you won't get there if you choose to use the bad way and not to enhance/improve the aspects, but the fact that the outcome will differ; if you do the right thing you will be HAPPY with THAT SPOUSE, in THAT CAREER, if not, you will have a DIFFICULT TIME with THAT SPOUSE, in that CAREER.
So this is the point I disagree mostly.
 
heidy26

heidy26

Well-known member
Krewster said:

I’m neither well-versed in astro-criminology nor inclined to study famous charts in hopes of elucidation but did not the following indicators of frustration in his chart:

Among personal planets, Mars alone is “red” aspected to the max (making tight octile and semi-octile aspects to Jup, Sat and Uran, viewable as a tall-skinny trapezoid with Mars-Sat and Jup-Uran serving as crossbraces).

The softer personals are also a bit red (Moon 180 Pluto and Sun 45 Ven).
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This made my day, because I will attach my chart for comparison. The way I see it, I am Gein's evil twin. :lol:
 

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Ayin

Active member
No, I don't believe there is such a thing as an evil chart. Because no matter how dark your astrology is, there's still the choice whether you use it to empower yourself or depower others. "evil" in this sense I think means "illusionary/able to cast illusions easily". I would like to refer TS to the Star Wars trilogy which focuses it's story around the profession 'Jedi' which people are born into. Jedi's are born masters of all material things and can manipulate it as such. The trained eye may have noticed 'Jedi' is actually derived from the Hebrew word 'Gedi' which means goatkind (devil), which is the tarot equivalent of Capricorn. Also the original words for 'goat', 'shield' and 'eye' all derive from the same source, the aegis.
/historylesson.
Anyway, the Jedi in Star Wars can make use of the 'Force' an imaginative power the controls the matter around them. But every time they use this power, the pull towards the 'darkside' gets stronger.
This is yet another parellel with the devils/capricorns, who are masters of matter and can see trough illusions of the earthly dimension, but can also cast illusions easily. As some may know, lying and manipulation should be avoided at all cost, so says our advice in the tarot.

Anyway, I learned a lot from the story. I decide when to use the 'force' and I will bear the consequence. I can either use it to destroy or to create. It's up to me.
 
keywine89

keywine89

Well-known member
kx5 said:
Hello again fellow astrologers.

Out of interest, I've recently been studying, so to say, the behaviour and psychological backgrounds of offenders and serial killers. It was therefore natural of me to start wondering what makes a person evil astrology-wise? Which aspects, which signs? Configurations (kite, T-square etc)?

Upon trying to answer this question on my own, I figured I'd use a serial killer's natal chart, which, assuming the time of birth is correct, should provide some information as to the nature of the man himself and the reason behind his actions. I randomly chose Ed Gein's chart.
Criminal record aside, it is a fact that psychologists diagnosed Gein with schizophrenia (or something similar, perhaps amongst other disorders). Furthermore, they attributed his extremely bizarre and violent demeanour to his oppressive and 'psychotic' family enviroment, especially his domineering religious mother, to whom he seemed to cling on throughout his life even after her death. As such, lots of Gein's criminal activities (primarily murders of women and grotesque transvestite tendencies) have been interpreted as an expression of the anguish and confusion he felt about his mother.

Attached at the end of this post you'll find Ed Gein's natal chart, according to Astro-Databank.

Here are my observations:
1) One should expect to see lots of Moon/Cancer in his chart. The Moon does aspect Mars, DESC, MC etc, and we've got exalted Jupiter + Neptune in Cancer. Although these seem to imply that his actions have been at least coloured by Gein's idea of his mother, they are still confusing. The entire chart seems to be describing a man with a strong connection to his mother/family, but not especially violent.

2) His Virgo Sun in 4th house conjunct his IC by a longshot. By itself, the Sun doesn't seem to be impying Gein was such an evil man as well.

3) One the other hand Virgo's ruler, Mercury, stands between Mars and the NN, possibly giving the Sun a darker hue.

4) The signs that could be considered to represent 'evil', eg Scorpio, Capricorn, Aquarius etc are almost empty. But Pluto, for instance, is conjunct his ASC and trining his MC, and Saturn is retrograde in Pisces (10th house), whose ruler, Neptune, is in Cancer. That said, Leo seems to be strongly present in the chart.

5) The houses corresponding to these signs are also mostly empty. The 12th house is empty as well.

I have omitted some other aspects made between the aforementioned planets for the sake of frankness.

Having said all that, I remain puzzled. If I saw this chart without knowing whose chart it is, most likely I wouldn't have said that this person is a world-known serial killer, whose atrocities shocked the entire world and inspired many fictitious evil characters. Based on his chart, what do you believe adequately describes Gein's nature? And what could generally point to a criminally-inclined person?
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Evil could be considered anything! But if we're talking about murdering someone.. that's entirely different! Most serial killers have a 1st/7th house opposition or a detriment. The others would have a 12th house stellium. Usually, these are the ones we never hear of because the 12th house is "hidden". Hence, never been caught yet. Mr. Gein's moon cusping the 7th house opposite pluto 1st house is a dead give away for him. As for his chart, his mother clearly was a strong influence on him. If i'm reading his chart correctly, she may have also molested him... As for the women he killed, he may have done so because of his inner hatred towards his mother. He may have loved his mother but at the same time detested her. This is the definition of his pluto/moon opposition. Also, I find his 2nd house interesting. Neptune cancer screams keeping creepy **** as possessions! Link the 2nd house ruler cancer to it's own house. We see leo, virgo and libra sitting in the 4th house. Which means 5th,6th and 7th houses are now connected to the 2nd ruler. This explains his fascination with female parts and what he kept as possessions around his home. GROSS! :sick:
 
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kx5

kx5

Well-known member
Please pardon my long absence from the forum. This thread has indeed evolved into a marvellous discussion thread! I like how everyone has his own bit of information to add to this. May I ask, do you reckon there is any astrology book on the matter of criminal psychology?

keywine89 said:
Evil could be considered anything! But if we're talking about murdering someone.. that's entirely different! Most serial killers have a 1st/7th house opposition or a detriment. The others would have a 12th house stellium. Usually, these are the ones we never hear of because the 12th house is "hidden". Hence, never been caught yet. Mr. Gein's moon cusping the 7th house opposite pluto 1st house is a dead give away for him. As for his chart, his mother clearly was a strong influence on him. If i'm reading his chart correctly, she may have also molested him... As for the women he killed, he may have done so because of his inner hatred towards his mother. He may have loved his mother but at the same time detested her. This is the definition of his pluto/moon opposition. Also, I find his 2nd house interesting. Neptune cancer screams keeping creepy **** as possessions! Link the 2nd house ruler cancer to it's own house. We see leo, virgo and libra sitting in the 4th house. Which means 5th,6th and 7th houses are now connected to the 2nd ruler. This explains his fascination with female parts and what he kept as possessions around his home. GROSS! :sick:
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That makes a lot of sense. I hadn't considered the 1st/7th house opposition to be a sign of criminal tendencies, and if that's the case, this gives my research an entire new dimension. Neptune in Cancer in the 2nd could merely be implying that he's hiding 'dodgy' things, not necessarily the stuff he had in his house. However, the 5th, 6th and 7th house connections to the 2nd are definitely involved. Venus, for one, is strong in the 5th in Libra, so if it connects to the 2nd, then yes, it does explain the fascination with female body parts. But my most important question is, would you have thought the same if you knew that this person is in fact not a serial killer, but an ordinary person (albeit a little eccentric)? Is the chart screaming by itself that Gein is a serial killer?
 
keywine89

keywine89

Well-known member
kx5 said:
Please pardon my long absence from the forum. This thread has indeed evolved into a marvellous discussion thread! I like how everyone has his own bit of information to add to this. May I ask, do you reckon there is any astrology book on the matter of criminal psychology?



That makes a lot of sense. I hadn't considered the 1st/7th house opposition to be a sign of criminal tendencies, and if that's the case, this gives my research an entire new dimension. Neptune in Cancer in the 2nd could merely be implying that he's hiding 'dodgy' things, not necessarily the stuff he had in his house. However, the 5th, 6th and 7th house connections to the 2nd are definitely involved. Venus, for one, is strong in the 5th in Libra, so if it connects to the 2nd, then yes, it does explain the fascination with female body parts. But my most important question is, would you have thought the same if you knew that this person is in fact not a serial killer, but an ordinary person (albeit a little eccentric)? Is the chart screaming by itself that Gein is a serial killer?
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Yes! I would still entertain the fact this person would eventually break down. Being eccentric is totally different from being a potential murderer! eccentricity would be more of an ascendant,mercury,3rd house matter. :pouty:
 
Hephaistos

Hephaistos

Well-known member
at my very first beginning study of astrology anno 2010, in a german forum the astrologers sayd i have a bad chart, because of to much opposite energies they stay together.

- saturn uranus
- venus pluto
- venus ruler from 1 in 12 sun in 12.
- sun moon
- venus mars
- venus uranus.
- sun neptune doublewhammy

after 5 years of study of astrology i can tell, there do not were so wrong, i'm nearly 40 years old my life was not good in many perspectives.
often i think better never i was born, but my will to live is very (others say extreme) strong for take vengeance, i see the sense of my life in this, that gives me so much power and the wrath makes me feel alive and feel myself, its so much stronger than love that weakens, this realization comes with t-Neptune Concjunct my Moon 2009/2010.
i have not choosen this way, my parents my home country, my fate, simply a bad chart that show a bad fate. Node axis.

http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/32zt7owmek4.jpg
 
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Hephaistos

Hephaistos

Well-known member
What you may experience if you stare too long is a loss of faith in the goodness of humanity.
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true

but in my opinion the goodness of humanity is a illusion, because it is conditioned on social terms.
 
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