Pluto in Dignity and Debility

johan

johan

Well-known member
Hi pisceskitty,

I share with you Pluto in H12,but mine is in Virgo.

And I have also Librarising and Uranus conjunct my Ascendant(together with Jupiter).

Interesting what Arroyo tells about this placement.And I recognize the restlessness of Uranus you tell about in another thread!

Greetings,Johan
 
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Teddybull

Well-known member
I have natally pluto in the 8th, in virgo (along with nn and Uranus in Leo). I love it. Never makes me stand still spiritually. I want to get to the bottom of every one of life's mystery. And it has to make sense. I will dissect my reasoning down to a molecular level. I can't fool myself. I will also test my theories.

To me, this lifetime is one of shedding karma rather than making it. I am beginning to fundamentally understand what karma is all about on an intuitive level.

I also have moon sq pluto within one degree. Talk about emotional crisis. I think with a pretty trying pluto, nothing matters to me except my search for salvation. Also to have complete 'self' control vs. 'sense' control. It happens no where as much as I want it to, but I love when I can say 'no' to something I truly materially, physically desire.

Currently I am going thru pluto in the 12th. I was reading somewhere that pluto going thru this house means eliminating 'garbage' from your subconscious mind. Maybe even confronting your hidden enemies and being either transformed or transforming them. Natally pluto in the 12th would also be a good placement.
 
pisceskitty

pisceskitty

Well-known member
Greetings Teddy,

I understand wholeheartedly when you talk about this search for salvation. I feel the same way being born with this placement. Even as a child,I have never been afraid of the unknown. I believe I seek it. I also have my Moon square Pluto. Emotional crisis is an understatement! I'm always reading, seeking knowledge, and going through some sort of metamorphasis. It is almost as if i'm living a million little lifetimes within this one.
 
M

Miss Saturn

Banned
Hi,

I have Pluto in Libra in the 2nd house (I felt like I was in Group therapy then :D )

[deleted copyrighted content posted without owner's permission - Moderator]

Miss S
 
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M

Manic_Monday

Well-known member
I have a difficult placed Pluto. It makes a conjunction with my Moon - in Scorpio. My emotions motivate me. I react too extremely to normal situations. I'm intense. I'm jealous. I don't get mad, I EXPLODE. You don't want to **** me off ;) My feelings are hard to live with. Especially since I don't talk about my feelings. I just can't. I don't talk about what's on my mind.
I read a Moon Pluto conjunction means problems with the mother. For me, this placement results in being too much a mother. I'm bossy, I tell everyone what to do, how to do and what not to do. I'm possessive and protective. My sister, who's 5 years younger than me, often calls me her second mother - which is true. I act like it.
This conjunction is placed in the 10th house. I want to achieve. I hate it when I'm not the best. I have to be. Less than that is not good enough.
Pluto also squares Venus, which even makes me more intense.
 
The_Sundance_Kid

The_Sundance_Kid

Well-known member
I'm not sure if I agree that Pluto is exalted in Aries, and hence in fall in Libra. This is because Aries is quite a simplistic unitary sign, it represents the disparate forces of Pisces concentrated down into their divine 'I am' form. While this may seem Plutonian, I believe Pluto actually works at the stage before this event occurs. In other words, Pluto is what brings disparate forces together- it is subtle and complex, it purges that which is hidden and causes revolutions in secret. This seems more akin to Pisces and Scorpio than Aries. Aries and Sagittarius seem to be the results of Plutonian activity.

I also believe that Pluto in Libra is not that bad- I have Pluto conjunct Venus and think that the Venus forces Pluto to confront its motivations- it only makes the choice between constructive and destructive starker, it does not make Pluto any more destructive.

Pluto in Virgo on the other hand, would share many of the similarities of Scorpio- the ability to analyse, to construct and deconstruct and mess around with tiny pieces to get the whole picture. This is also similar to Pisces. The crucial difference however is that Virgo is soul less- it has not discovered the potential of the soul and lacks that emotional motivation and subconscious that is unleashed in Scorpio. Pisces has this. This is why I think Pluto is exalted in Pisces and is in fall in Virgo.

I've also heard opinions that Pluto is exalted in Aquarius, which I can understand as it is a sign relating to social change and can be abrupt= Uranus is exalted in Scorpio. I'm not sure what I really think about this- I would imagine that Pluto would work well from this sign though.

I'm not sure if a planet can be exalted in a sign before or after the one in which it rules. The Zodiac works in a dialectic process, each sign balancing the preceding one, before being a victim to its own success and once again needing balancing itself. If this is true, no planet can work extremely well in the sign before as the timing is out. However as the subject's life continues, the planet may become an increasingly important asset in controlling the excesses of the sign.
 
Arian Maverick

Arian Maverick

Well-known member
This is why I think Pluto is exalted in Pisces and is in fall in Virgo.
Click to expand...

I believe this coincides with the esoteric rulership list; if I remember correctly, Pluto is the ruler of Pisces in this system.

Arian Maverick
 
J

Junke

Well-known member
Don't completely beleive that outer planets have exaltations, but here goes...

I actually think that Pluto would be in Fall in Leo. Leo is all about the Individual. Pluto is about power and transformation...that doesn't seem like a good combo to me...at all...

In Leo, power would be concentrated all to individuals. They would be too selfish and jeoulous to share their power, which would result in many personal conflicts, and just battles that many would be better off without.

In Aquarius, Pluto's engery would be focused on the collective. Meaning that all would be equally powerful.

But that's more going off of the definition that exaltation is when a planet is at it's most noble and dignified, rather then when it's at it's most powerful. Because it does seem like Pluto would be very very strong in Leo.
 
D

Dazzled

Member
When I saw Ms Saturn's post with this poem,
I got an immediate shock and went Oh my god!

In the desert I saw a creature naked, bestial
Who was squatting on the ground
Held his heart in his hands
And ate of it,
I said "is it good friend?"
"It is bitter" he answered
"But I like it because it is bitter"
And because it is my heart.


Because I've always found a particular connection to this poem, and have even use the last two lines in my msn nicknames and in my blog. And I have no idea whatsoever that someone used this quote to relate to people with Pluto in the 8th.

My Pluto is in the 8th house and in Scorpio. I am still very...shocked/freaked out/elated that this poem has been used to describe Pluto in the 8th.

Synchronicity. Astrology. Amazement.
Oh how vast the universe is.

Pluto trines my sun, opposes my moon, sesquiquadrate my mercury and mars, biquintile my venus, sextiles my neptune and trine my ascendant. It refuses to let me look for easy answers and always remind me of how dark the con of man.

OK I shall snap out of these dark dark mood. Yay!
Sesquiquadrate
 
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redwolf481

Well-known member
miss saturn i have venus opposite pluto and this fits...there the two strongest planets in my vhart.....i too when i was a child.....had a bad temper well mor actually i felt like people especially my mother got in the way....i was the kid who read ahead in class when the teacher would tell me to stay with the class i resisted until it escalated to extremes like me bein restrained then i fought them for hours and 5 hours later i am still fighting but don't remmember what about....for years I was treated for bipolar even though I never had mood swings...the docters said my behavior was among the worst...as I headed into middle school I stopped having problems at school and as I head into highschool I chilled out...though even to this day I still have problems with my mother....at 20 they found out I never had bipolar and had been treated for it for years...lol I now too find myself too passive when I should be more assertive and becoming angry at the wrong times...like I don't stick up for myself, in life..... but can still blow up at my parents(with a rage that I felt as I child..its very rare though..I am trying to balance it) but it does sound like I have chosen the venus





Miss Saturn said:
Hi Howl,

We have talked about the Venus Pluto aspect before, you don't seem to give it that much significance in your chart but it is definately there. I know your touching on Pluto in Libra here but there were a few things you said here that definately indicate venus pluto operating.



So you do have powerful emotions, dangerous temper, are you trying to supress your pluto, control these powerful emotions. Afraid of how people will react to this side of you. I am not attacking you, but you said you have learned to moderate these feelings far too efficiently. Which implys you are tightly controlling this energy.



Painful clots in the throat because of the rage you feel. Your body is telling you not to supress your anger. Not expressing your rage will make you ill. It is good that you find a release in writing your feelings down as an outlet.



Here you say "I never burn bridges or relationships that I might later regret having burned" Venus Pluto people do have trouble "letting go" of relationships.

Also you say I do not attract destructive people .



But with this statement above, I would say you do attract destructive people and with Pluto being in the third and the third house can indicate everyday encounters. I can strongly see your Venus Pluto operating.
Click to expand...
 
R

redwolf481

Well-known member
pluto in scorpio in the first
trine the sun
opposite moon(its 11 degrees but my moon is in the 8th house)
trine mercury
opposite venus(chart ruler libra rising), in taurus)
trine mars
sextile neptune
trine ceres


june 14 1985
2:10 pm
canoga park california
 
V

VeryVenus

Well-known member
I have Pluto in Libra. Both Libra and Moon in my 7th are sex tiling my Venus in the 12th (Pisces ).
I am Aries rising and Cap Sun.
I have never had trouble expressing - unlike the first poster. On the opposite people find me overly domineering (I have both Mercury and Mars conjunct in the same degree in Capricorn. ) I have never experienced "supressed anger" on the opposite I have always spoke my mind in a very direct way.

Does this mean that your theory of Pluto debilitated in Libra incorrect? Or how do you explain that personal power and will not affected?? Libra rules partnerships and public affairs, and my profession is of public service. I also have mutual reception of Saturn and Sun.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
VeryVenus said:
I have Pluto in Libra. Both Libra and Moon in my 7th are sex tiling my Venus in the 12th (Pisces ).
I am Aries rising and Cap Sun.

I have never had trouble expressing - unlike the first poster. On the opposite people find me overly domineering (I have both Mercury and Mars conjunct in the same degree in Capricorn. ) I have never experienced "supressed anger" on the opposite I have always spoke my mind in a very direct way.

Does this mean that your theory of Pluto debilitated in Libra incorrect?

Or how do you explain that personal power and will not affected??

Libra rules partnerships and public affairs, and my profession is of public service.

I also have mutual reception of Saturn and Sun.
Click to expand...

BELOW IS A TABLE OF THE ESSENTIAL DIGNITIES OF THE PLANETS THAT DATES BACK TO NEARLY TWO THOUSAND YEARS AGO - AND WORKS EXCELLENTLY!! :smile:

NOTE THE ABSENCE OF DWARF PLANET PLUTO

THERE IS NO WAY OF CRAMMING IN ANY OTHER PLANETS WHETHER DWARF OR OTHERWISE WITHOUT COMPLETELY DESTABILIZING THE ORIGINAL CONCEPT OF PLANETARY DIGNITY

FURTHERMORE, EVEN AMONGST MODERN ASTROLOGERS THERE IS NO CONSENSUS REGARDING DIGNITY OR NON-DIGNITY OF DWARF PLANET PLUTO

dignities2.gif
 
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dr. farr

Well-known member
And, although I use the outers, and have my own insights/beliefs regarding their affinities to signs and elements, I agree with the above posting, ie, that for practical purposes IF and WHEN we are using the established tables of dignities, rulerships, etc, we should NOT attempt to add the outers to them: these tables represent a well developed whole system model, and to work effectively AS such a model, they should be used as they have been developed. Further, when using a Modernist model (as I often do), we don't NEED to bring in these other models (ie the Traditionalist-or Vedic-tables mentioned above) or to alter these well-established models (tables), in an attempt to accomodate the outers (or the asteroids, or any other chart factors not known-or used-in the olden times)...
I repeat-I have become completely convinced of the significant delineative/predictive value of the outers, they are "real" and they do have significant influences (and regardless of whether or not Pluto is a planet or a dwarf, I consider it a very important astrological factor)-nonethless I do not attempt to use them within an already well-established (and valuable) Traditionalist model, or to alter the Traditionalist (or Vedic) models by trying to re-figure those models to accomodate the outers.
 
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Inline

Inline

Well-known member
MJ82 said:
.....assessment of Pluto in fall/detriment in Libra:
http://chirotic.wordpress.com/2012/09/26/how-big-is-your-pluto/
Click to expand...

here is a quote from the above link, thanks.

......"If you have Pluto close to an angle, then he becomes even stronger, and he is also strong in the 5th, 7th and 9th houses. So if you have Pluto rising in Libra or Sagittarius, and to a slightly lesser extent Leo, then know that you have quite a trip ahead of you and you need, for the sake of your eternal soul, to get down to some serious spiritual work if you want to avoid the burden of a lot of karmic payback......"
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
MJ82 said:
Arian Mavrick, you may find this interesting, especially re the assessment of Pluto in fall/detriment in Libra: http://chirotic.wordpress.com/2012/09/26/how-big-is-your-pluto/
Click to expand...
Certainly there are many experimental theories on this idea of the Sun's place of Fall being that of dwarf planet Pluto, however there is no consensus on the matter amongst modern astrologers :smile:

If the OP is reading this thread then would be useful to have their comments
 
aquarius7000

aquarius7000

Well-known member
Hi,
Inline said:
here is a quote from the above link, thanks.

......"If you have Pluto close to an angle, then he becomes even stronger, and he is also strong in the 5th, 7th and 9th houses. So if you have Pluto rising in Libra or Sagittarius, and to a slightly lesser extent Leo, then know that you have quite a trip ahead of you and you need, for the sake of your eternal soul, to get down to some serious spiritual work if you want to avoid the burden of a lot of karmic payback......"
Click to expand...
Thanks for sharing that link, but I am not sure as to how Pluto may be strong in the 5th, 7th, and 9th houses, and, of course, being angular anywhere. Re being angular, I think that is generic and said for all planets - being more action oriented when angular.

I have never considered the dignities and debilities of the outer planets, as I think they do 'their job' no matter where they are. Pluto or Nep or Ura, in my opinion, do not lose strength by being in their 'so-called' signs of fall or detriment.

:)AQ7
 
M

may28gemini

I don't think the outer planets (Uranus, Neptune, Pluto) have any dignitaries, exaltation, and fallen positions. They each last a very long time in each sign and spend the majority of the time in retrograde. That being said, Pluto is the furthermost planet and stays in a sign for what? 15 years or so? YIKES. That means that for a good 15 years everyone born in a "fallen" sign are part of a busted generation and everyone born in an exalted sign are part of an awesome generation? NO, that's wayyy too broad of a scope.

The outer planets don't seem to lose any power no matter what sign. Either way, they still have the ability to influence events in whatever flavor sign it's in.

I'm part of the tail end of the Pluto Libra generation which means it spanned from roughly 1971 to 1984 and it's been speculated that this particular Pluto generation will "bring marriage back" by the time we're in power. Umm... by the time the Libra Pluto generation is in power, that means we'll be in our 50s and 60s and by then, we ourselves would probably all be married or at least married once. How the heck can my Pluto generation bring marriage back? LOL We'd all be so old that the younger generations would think we're out of touch with reality! Right now, the Libra generation is actually REBELLING against marriage and have opted for live-in partners, not having kids, and furthering their career. So I'm wondering, those born in the Scorpio Pluto generation... when they're in power, does that mean super weird/creepy sex acts will become the norm?

In response to,

"If you have Pluto close to an angle, then he becomes even stronger, and he is also strong in the 5th, 7th and 9th houses. So if you have Pluto rising in Libra or Sagittarius, and to a slightly lesser extent Leo, then know that you have quite a trip ahead of you and you need, for the sake of your eternal soul, to get down to some serious spiritual work if you want to avoid the burden of a lot of karmic payback......"

I don't quite understand why Pluto is particularly "strong" in the 5th, 7th, and 9th unless you mean it's powerfully malefic in those houses. I don't know about Libra Pluto rising but I do have Libra Pluto in the 1st house and I can say that I've had a really "long journey" with no end in sight but I wouldn't say I've encountered events and people on a karmic level. But then again, many people can say that without having Libra Pluto rising. What makes it so particular about Libra Pluto rising has to be the one with karmic baggages?
 
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