Signs are neither Strong Nor Weak-however Planets may have Weak or Strong Placements

kirki

Well-known member
Yes,actually you had helped me get an idea about dignities in another post,i just dont agree with some so im just expressing my opinion having my mercury in its domicile,triplicity and terms...
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Thank you for your reply,yes i know but in my opinion
sagittarius straight forward,honest way
matches to mercury more than gossipy and distracted gemini.
Just my opinion.
Mercury however is Traditionally the "trickster" and not necessarily straightforward :smile:

Actually i have been thinking the same about mercury in sagittarius.
Seems as the characteristics of this sign are compatible
to a real genuine way of communication.
Traditonally as I mentioned Mercury is in detriment in Sagittarius
and for example
Vettius Valens states in THE ANTHOLOGY
FREE to read online
pdf form
at
http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/vettius%20valens%20entire.pdf
QUOTE:

'....This star’s effects go in many directions

depending on the changes of the zodiac
and the
interactions of the stars
and yields quite varied results.....' :smile:
i just dont agree with some
so im just expressing my opinion having my mercury in its domicile,triplicity and terms...
generalisation is fun and tempting
but unreliable
each natal chart is different

Vettius Valens also mentions

QUOTE:

'....As for the end result
Mercury will make everything capricious in outcome
and quite disturbed.
Even more, it causes those having this star in malefic signs or degrees

to become even worse....'
 

ardentika

Well-known member
Interesting idea, but not applicable on our Traditional board
because
traditionally
Sun in Aries is Exalted
and
Sun in Libra is in Fall


Traditional differs from Modernist "Sunsign astrology"
and since this thread is posted on our Traditional board
the discussion is from a Traditional astrological perspective :smile:
By all means discuss "Sun in Libra lacks ego/identity so is spiritual & therefore Exalted"
on another thread, on a more appropriate board
such as our Modern Astrology board
or Research and Development

Thank you, thats a good idea, didn't know it interferes with the Traditional astrology. x)
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Thank you, thats a good idea, didn't know it interferes with
the Traditional astrology. x)
Traditional astrology rationale is established for past two thousand years :smile:
approximately
Modernist thinking is different so we have separate boards
one for Traditional
another for Modern
If you are interested to read some Traditional material
there is plenty avilable online for free
such as for example

pdf THE ANTHOLOGY by Vettius Valens
written in Ancient Greek two thousand years ago
and translated by Professor Mark Riley of CSU
FREE online at http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf

also William Lilly
Christian astrology pdf

there is more if you would like more links
 

Whoam1

Well-known member
[Deleted quote of deleted attacking post. - Moderator]

Capricorn is the only sign with a rulling entity that isn't a Planet. The sign that does reject the stays quo, does it even within the zodiac. Thank you goat god Pan.(No the asteroid named after him doesn't mean anything.) Don't belive me on Capy and the status quo.

MLK
Alcapone
Jim Carey

To name a few.
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Capricorn is the only sign with a rulling entity that isn't a Planet. The sign that does reject the stays quo, does it even within the zodiac. Thank you goat god Pan.(No the asteroid named after him doesn't mean anything.) Don't belive me on Capy and the status quo.

MLK
Alcapone
Jim Carey

To name a few.

Some Reflections about Babylonian Astrology


06-11-2013, 09:44 PM
BobZemco
user_offline.gif

Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: On a web-site far, far away...
Posts: 2,137
Re: The 8 sign zodiac - looking for info about it
Quote:
Originally Posted by miquar
Hi everyone. I'm still in the process of writing my book, so haven't had time to come on the forum much this year. I'm trying to find out something about the 8-sign zodiac which was used at some point in the past - perhaps in Egypt, I'm not sure. I'm mostly interested in getting a brief description of what each of the 8 signs in that system was thought to represent.

Beware strange web-sites foisting bizarre theories on the unsuspecting.

This is just a misunderstanding by people who couldn't figure out the doctrine brought to us by an Eastern Greek....as opposed to the stupid Western Greeks. Eastern Greeks -- we're talking Lydians and Phrygians here...lived in Central Anatolia....yeah, modern Turkey.

Eastern Greeks were a conduit for information from Mesopotamia via the Sumerians. The Eastern Greeks passed on knowledge in math, science, astronomy and astrology first from the Amorites (mistakenly referred to as "Babylonians") and later from the Babylonians (mistakenly referred to as "Chaldeans") to the nucleus of what would later become "Western Civilization".....

This Eastern Greek -- Nechepso was his name -- espoused a doctrine of 8 power regions in the Chart, and you know them as Angular and Succeedent Houses/Signs.

That, is the source of the 8-Sign Zodiac Nonsense, in spite of the fact that Nechepso never said there were 8-Signs, rather he said there were 8 regions of power in the Chart.

Keywords are "Willing" (Angular), "Hoping" (Succeedent) and "Receding" (Cadent).

This doctrine impacts Natal, Mundane, Revolution, Horary and Electional Astrology.

A Planet will do whatever it will do....good or bad....if in one of the 8 power regions. Naturally, a Planet's condition will affect its ability to do whatever it will do.

This doctrine caused some confusion, leading some of the later astrologers, mostly Hellenistic --- like Dorotheus, but even Zael used it, to adopt the 7-Sign/House System of power, which was the 1st, 4th, 5th, 7th, 9th, 10th and 12th Houses/Signs.

Surely you can see the confusion --- the MC can fall in the 9th, 10th or 11th House/Sign, and so how can you have a king with a 9th House MC or MC Ruler in the 9th?

And what about the 2nd House of Wealth?

That leads to weird things like the 15° Rule )Ptolemy) where a Planet within 15° of the Ascendant (or MC) is considered to be in the Asc/MC.

That's what happens when subtle (and not so subtle) nuances get lost with the transmission of knowledge over time. I don't think Nechepso & Co or Ptolemy & Co are necessarily wrong....in fact, I'm not even sure they were talking about the same thing, and there's every indication that the Asc/MC were treated separate and apart from the House/Signs.

Even so, they all still pretty much say the same thing, that there's a distinction between looking at the Chart as a whole, and looking at Topics.

Suppose the Chart Ruler is in the 7th House....that's Angular, and (assuming it is otherwise in good condition) you could conclude that nearly all of what the Chart promises will be fulfilled --- it's just a matter of determining when (use Profections and Revolutions).

Now suppose the Chart Ruler is also the Wealth Ruler.....would you draw the same conclusion?

No....it's Angular in the Chart, but not to the Topic of Wealth....the 7th House would be Cadent to the 2nd House/Sign, and in fact the Topic Ruler can't even "see" the House/Sign it rules, and so it is powerless to do anything, regardless of its condition.

You can also view it as Public (Angular), semi-Private/semi-Public (Succeedent) and Private (Cadent).

Are all powerful men and women in the spotlight? On stage? In the news?

No....well, then you might want to look and see where the Topic Ruler (in the this instance the MC Ruler) is located. Same for those who have wealth...of any kind...how many times have you seen the modest person....only to discover much later that they have a rather fair amount of wealth (to a lot of wealth)?

You can also view look at those power regions in terms of "longevity." Some people retain their wealth and/or health their whole lives, while others see their health/wealth fade with age....or lose their friends....don't age gracefully....have fewer enemies....fewer employees...their power fades....their zeal for things religious, ideological, educational or philosophical wanes.

You're looking at something Cadent in the Chart; if not the Topic Ruler, then the Lot; or a Succeedent Topic Ruler/Cadent Lot; a Cadent Lot Ruler; an Angular Ruler but in poor condition with the Lot or Lot Ruler Cadent....it's there.

Anyway, if you want to research astrology, especially ancient astrology, then I would suggest the proper venue is a library -- like a university library, and not the internet


__________________
Addressing his pupil, Satyacharya said, "The science of Astrology is a great secret. It should be guarded with care. This sacred science of Astrology should never be taught to bad people. Nor should it be revealed to too many people and very frequently. It should be taught only to a few chosen disciples who really deserve and have the necessary qualifications."
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to BobZemco For This Useful Post:
Culpeper (06-12-2013), JUPITERASC (06-11-2013), serafin5 (06-12-2013), tsmall (06-11-2013)
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Where did nechepso say that?
1st century text written in form of a poem by DOROTHEUS OF SIDON

claims to be synthesizing the works of earlier authors
from 1st century BCE, such as Nechepso and Petosiris
or texts attributed to Hermes
after traveled widely in the two homes of astrology Egypt and Mesopotamia

Note there are also the Dorotheus ‘...fragments...’
and the Dorotheus ‘...excerpts...’.
The Dorotheus fragments were short passages of Dorotheus
that Pingree included in his 1976 book in an appendix.
Later a Greek manuscript had quotations from some version of Dorotheus in Greek
these are called the Dorotheus excerpts.
All of the excerpts have been translated in Greek for the linked edition by BENJAMIN DYKES

https://bendykes.com/product/dorotheuss-carmen-astrologicum/

Dorotheus represented mainstream Hellenistic tradition which was successfully passed on :smile:
Ptolemy outside of mainstream Hellenistic astrology when compared with Dorotheus or Valens

.
 

sinhtheslumberingdragon

Well-known member
*


ANGULARITY PROVIDES STRENGTH - not Sign :smile:



angularity-02.jpg

Mercury however is Traditionally the "trickster" and not necessarily straightforward :smile:


Traditonally as I mentioned Mercury is in detriment in Sagittarius
and for example
Vettius Valens states in THE ANTHOLOGY
FREE to read online
pdf form
at
http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/vettius valens entire.pdf
QUOTE:

'....This star’s effects go in many directions

depending on the changes of the zodiac
and the
interactions of the stars
and yields quite varied results.....' :smile:

generalisation is fun and tempting
but unreliable
each natal chart is different

Vettius Valens also mentions

QUOTE:

'....As for the end result
Mercury will make everything capricious in outcome
and quite disturbed.
Even more, it causes those having this star in malefic signs or degrees

to become even worse....'

if you provide a link to that :smile:

then that would be great


Quote:
Originally Posted by kirki
Thank you for your reply,yes i know but in my opinion
sagittarius straight forward,honest way
matches to mercury more than gossipy and distracted gemini.
Just my opinion.


Mercury however is Traditionally the "trickster" and not necessarily straightforward :smile:

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirki

Actually i have been thinking the same about mercury in sagittarius.
Seems as the characteristics of this sign are compatible
to a real genuine way of communication.


Traditonally as I mentioned Mercury is in detriment in Sagittarius
and for example
Vettius Valens states in THE ANTHOLOGY
FREE to read online
pdf form
at
http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
QUOTE:

'....This star’s effects go in many directions

depending on the changes of the zodiac
and the
interactions of the stars
and yields quite varied results.....' :smile:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirki

i just dont agree with some
so im just expressing my opinion having my mercury in its domicile,triplicity and terms...


generalisation is fun and tempting
but unreliable
each natal chart is different

Vettius Valens also mentions

QUOTE:

'....As for the end result
Mercury will make everything capricious in outcome
and quite disturbed.
Even more, it causes those having this star in malefic signs or degrees

to become even worse....'
__________________


Unless you are merely referring to the quote you posted below and not to detriment itself
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Unless you are merely referring to the quote you posted below and not to detriment itself

Thank you for your reply,yes i know but in my opinion
sagittarius straight forward,honest way
matches to mercury more than gossipy and distracted gemini.
Just my opinion.
Mercury however is Traditionally the "trickster" and not necessarily straightforward :smile:

Actually i have been thinking the same about mercury in sagittarius.
Seems as the characteristics of this sign are compatible
to a real genuine way of communication.
Traditonally as I mentioned Mercury is in detriment in Sagittarius
and for example
Vettius Valens states in THE ANTHOLOGY
FREE to read online
pdf form
at
http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/vettius%20valens%20entire.pdf
QUOTE:

'....This star’s effects go in many directions

depending on the changes of the zodiac
and the
interactions of the stars
and yields quite varied results.....' :smile:
i just dont agree with some
so im just expressing my opinion having my mercury in its domicile,triplicity and terms...
generalisation is fun and tempting
but unreliable
each natal chart is different

Vettius Valens also mentions

QUOTE:

'....As for the end result
Mercury will make everything capricious in outcome
and quite disturbed.
Even more, it causes those having this star in malefic signs or degrees

to become even worse....'



no SPECIFIC quote of DETRIMENT :smile:

i.e.

Traditonally as I mentioned Mercury is in detriment in Sagittarius
however I did not say VALENS said that
I said

and for example
Vettius Valens states in THE ANTHOLOGY
FREE to read online
pdf form
at
http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
QUOTE:

'....This star’s effects go in many directions

depending on the changes of the zodiac
and the
interactions of the stars
and yields quite varied results.....'


to illustrate the variety of effects Mercury may have as stated by Valens

.
 
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