Cazimi

david starling

Well-known member
Is a cazimi planet empowered by the Sun? I read that the Orb is one degree according to the earlier astrologers, but was tightened to 16 minutes during the Renaissance. Jupiter will be cazimi in two days.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Aside from your personal situation, is that "standard" Traditional?
Planet gets empowered? Like Venus or Mars camizi, great lover or fighter?I
What about Jupiter camizi, coming up soon?
Traditionally
"empowerment" relative to cazimi Mars has multiple significations
likewise "empowerment" relative to cazimi Venus has multiple significations
and "empowerment" relative to cazimi Jupiter has multiple significations :smile:
 

petosiris

Banned
Aside from your personal situation, is that "standard" Traditional? Planet gets empowered? Like Venus or Mars camizi, great lover or fighter?I
What about Jupiter camizi, coming up soon?

Lilly gives the maximum + 5 points to cazimi planets, as are given to 1st and 10th house placements. - http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig5.html

Personally I don't think that heliacal risings, settings and cazimi mean much anymore, I was convinced by the physical arguments of Morinus against them.
 

petosiris

Banned
Traditionally
"empowerment" relative to cazimi Mars has multiple significations
likewise "empowerment" relative to cazimi Venus has multiple significations
and "empowerment" relative to cazimi Jupiter has multiple significations :smile:

That is correct. Planets have essential, but also accidental roles that vary by chart in traditional astrology. :smile:
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Is a cazimi planet empowered by the Sun?
I read that the Orb is one degree according to the earlier astrologers,
but was tightened to 16 minutes during the Renaissance.
Jupiter will be cazimi in two days.
the information you read may have been incomplete
alternatively you may have overlooked some of the information


a cazimi planet must be conjunct with Sun by LATITUDE - not soley longitude


you appear to have researched this matter already
and have a particular day/date/time in mind :smile:
and so
useful if you would post the respective LATITUDES of Jupiter and the Sun
for the day you have in mind
 

petosiris

Banned
the information you read may have been incomplete
alternatively you may have overlooked some of the information


a cazimi planet must be conjunct with Sun by LATITUDE - not soley longitude


you appear to have researched this matter already
and have a particular day/date/time in mind :smile:
and so
useful if you would post the respective LATITUDES of Jupiter and the Sun
for the day you have in mind

Most traditional authors don't mention latitude, and only require longitude. The Sun is never north or south of the ecliptic, and traditionally does not miss applications and separations anyways.
 

petosiris

Banned
''We can be assured that Lilly is not referring to latitude in this excerpt because when he deems it necessary to consider latitude as well as longitude, he usually mentions it explicitly, as he does while discussing of fixed stars. It is no coincidence that Bonatti had already complained, some centuries before, about the lack of attention to latitude with the majority of his contemporaries: Indeed I am in agreement with them, but not purely and simply. Because if a planet is distant from the Sun by less than 16’ in longitude, and according to latitude it is distant by more than 16’, nevertheless it is combust, because the distinction between combustion in latitude and combustion in longitude is practically imperceptible.'' - from the same source

I would say that Bonatti was in a minority. Rhetorius and Sahl don't mention latitude with their degree either.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Siriusly

''We can be assured that Lilly is not referring to latitude in this excerpt
except that even Lilly specifically says
'....both by latitude and longitude
(which rarely happens)...'
because when he deems it necessary to consider latitude as well as longitude,
he usually mentions it explicitly, as he does while discussing of fixed stars.
It is no coincidence that Bonatti had already complained, some centuries before
about the lack of attention to latitude with the majority of his contemporaries:
Indeed I am in agreement with them, but not purely and simply.
Because if a planet is distant from the Sun by less than 16’ in longitude,
and according to latitude it is distant by more than 16’, nevertheless it is combust,
because the distinction between combustion in latitude
and combustion in longitude is practically imperceptible.''
- from the same source
I would say that Bonatti was in a minority.
Rhetorius and Sahl don't mention latitude with their degree either.
Ancient technical texts are very hard to work with.
Not merely do you need the usual Greek and Latin language skills
and a feel for the customs of the ancient world.
You also need a specialised understanding of the discipline in question.
Not many of us have knowledge of alchemy, or farming methods, or architecture.
So the manuals on these subjects tend to be understudied :smile:
and few are translated into modern languages.
https://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog...stars-the-life-and-death-of-robert-c-schmidt/
 
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