Debilitated Saturn

The_Saturnian

Well-known member
The earliest I've heard of people "starting" their Saturn's return is 27. You're not even 27 yet. How can you start your Saturn's return when transiting Saturn isn't even in your sign yet?
I think you are confusing Saturn transiting your chart with Saturn's return: they are not the same thing. People who are conscious of Saturn may start to feel his effects in their mid-20s but Saturn's return is a time when transiting Saturn is in your natal Saturn's sign and will plow through your chart and make you rebuild your life- inside and out. A person experiences their first Saturn's return, roughly from The earliest I've heard of Saturn crossing their chart is 28 but the general is 29.5 yrs. The latest I've heard of is 32 yrs old. I have very early Saturn and it crossed my chart a few months after I turned 29. My lawyer friend's late Libra Saturn experienced a completely shutdown when Saturn crossed his chart 28 1/2 years old (last Nov).
I think you need to rethink your talk of Saturn's return. You won't feel Saturn's rings around you until he enters Scorpio. Trust me, I definitely felt something tightening around me when Saturn entered Libra and I wasn't even astrologically "aware" at that time. What you've experienced is just a slight wind of nice Libra Saturn, no need for you to rush because your Scorpio Saturn storm will hit you in due time.

Exalted Saturnians are probably not likely to be aggressive or vindictive... except, possibly, if their Saturn conjuncts Pluto which happens for people born mid 1983. The point of exalted Saturn is to learn how to treat others fairly regardless of how they are. I've been tested on that many times and there are days when I want to destroy everything simply because I think it's "stupid." Yet, I've learned to tell myself that it's not worth it and move on. That's a really hard lesson to grasp, with or without exalted natal Saturn. I just think that if you have exalted Saturn, it would be a bit easier to grasp the hard lessons and have a less yucky time integrating them into your life.

As for the other Saturnians, like Aries, Leo, yes they can be quite vicious. Why? Because they are in debilitated positions. Saturn hates fire and the arrogance that goes with them which means Aries, Leo, Sag. Fire Saturns tend to overstep and cause others to be victims. Although, I tend to think Sag Saturn people are quite decent and generally quite polite, and not as bad as bossy Aries and Leo. Saturn is vicious towards the water signs esp. Cancer and may cause the person to get victimized (or rather, feel victimized regularly).

When I was 26, one of my work partners, an accountant (she was a Taurus Scorpio Cancer), was in her 60s and she read my chart. I found out she had been a professional astrologer for over 30 years. She told me, "Don't worry about your Saturn's return, just stay strong and you'll be fine." When she told me that, I had no idea what the heck she was talking about and just shrugged it off. That was the only time she mentioned about me and Saturn's return and other than that, we talked about it in general terms. She did mention that during her 1st return, she divorced her first husband, separated from their daughter and towards the end met her 2nd husband. I hadn't thought about it but now that I'm nearing the end of my Saturn's return, quite possibly, I've met my future 2nd husband (the lawyer) LOL

I didn’t know that the first Saturn return began around the age of 28+. I must admit, I did get confused as my learning of Astrology began stemmed from my father teaching me Vedic Astrology here and there. I’m still a novice with the Western format.

My father understands Vedic Astrology and he explained to me that Vedic teachings explain that the Saturn return (“Sade-Sati” as it is coined in Sanskrit – meaning 7⅟2 years in this context), begins when Saturn enters the house before where it was, when the subject was born. E.g. In my case it would be when Libra is in Saturn, which it currently is. They also state that the return is sub-divided into 3 phases, each constituting of 2⅟2 years each. So according to them, my Sade-Sati would have commenced when Saturn entered Libra for 2⅟2 year (the first phase), will continue through into Scorpio for another 2⅟2 years (the second phase) and then into Sagittarius for another 2⅟2 years (the third and final phase), until in transits safely away into Capricorn which by my count should be November 2017. So I guess you’re right in saying that what I have experienced is merely turbulence and not the real storm of Saturn. Dam! I better be ready for what’s to come in that case, and get praying to Saturn soon. Lol.

I’m just a little curious as to what kind of things you experienced when your Saturn return occurred, since you’ve made it sound excruciatingly.

I have heard of Saturn returns causing people to divorce their ‘then’ partner/break up with their long term partner, leading them onto a new and exciting love. So I can relate to your paragraph about new partners.

I really hope things work out with you and your 2nd husband. :biggrin:
 
M

may28gemini

I didn’t know that the first Saturn return began around the age of 28+. I must admit, I did get confused as my learning of Astrology began stemmed from my father teaching me Vedic Astrology here and there. I’m still a novice with the Western format.

My father understands Vedic Astrology and he explained to me that Vedic teachings explain that the Saturn return (“Sade-Sati” as it is coined in Sanskrit – meaning 7⅟2 years in this context), begins when Saturn enters the house before where it was, when the subject was born. E.g. In my case it would be when Libra is in Saturn, which it currently is. They also state that the return is sub-divided into 3 phases, each constituting of 2⅟2 years each. So according to them, my Sade-Sati would have commenced when Saturn entered Libra for 2⅟2 year (the first phase), will continue through into Scorpio for another 2⅟2 years (the second phase) and then into Sagittarius for another 2⅟2 years (the third and final phase), until in transits safely away into Capricorn which by my count should be November 2017. So I guess you’re right in saying that what I have experienced is merely turbulence and not the real storm of Saturn. Dam! I better be ready for what’s to come in that case, and get praying to Saturn soon. Lol.

I’m just a little curious as to what kind of things you experienced when your Saturn return occurred, since you’ve made it sound excruciatingly.

I have heard of Saturn returns causing people to divorce their ‘then’ partner/break up with their long term partner, leading them onto a new and exciting love. So I can relate to your paragraph about new partners.

I really hope things work out with you and your 2nd husband. :biggrin:

Ah yes, Vedic astrology is far different than Western astrology. And even within Western astrology, there's various "disciplines" that create confusion amongst. I was taught more traditional/ Hellenistic forms of astrology and by my own account of learning via osmosis, I've gotten quite good at Psychological astrology. If you started learning Vedic astrology and have done quite well in it, I would encourage you to continue furthering that sector of astrology. It's quite interesting and I think it will give you a really good foundation as far as understanding the relationship of how the planets interact with each other and dissecting the houses. Don't confuse Vedic with Western because they use completely different calendars and focus on different elements. The Vedic astrological explanation of Saturn's return sounds like it's a very long drawn out process.

Saturn's return is a huge subject and oddly enough, there's not much discussion of it. I think Saturn should have a big giant category solely in his honor because he is crucial for living life on a mundane level. But here's my breakdown of what's up with him.

Saturn moves very slowly and in a sign for about 2.5 years. It takes Saturn 29.5 years... nearly 30 years to make his rounds, which would explain why people say that turning 30 is like "death" and that would be correct. The first 30 years of your life is living out your previous life's karma. When Saturn makes his first return to your chart, it's Saturn's way of cutting your ties off with your old life as a child so you can begin your new life as an adult to be someone who has a stronger grasp on how to live life in this world. Saturn is Lord Karma, but also the Teacher. He teaches slowly, gradually, so unlike Mars you don't get hit in the face with immediate results. With Saturn, everything is built upon time. Once Saturn returns to your chart, if you've built a solid foundation, he'll reward you and very few will experience this. If you did not find your direction or didn't start to build a solid foundation, it will be a very rough time which is the typical experience. If you fight Saturn's lessons, things will continue to be difficult until you learn. That's why people "fear" Saturn/turn 30 so much. Saturn takes away that nice comfy couch you were given and you'll have to figure out a solution as to how/where/what to sit on next.

My allegory above is the general illustration of what goes on during one's Saturn's return. There's no particular pattern as to "what" happens during Saturn's return other than to say the individual restructures their lives. As to "how" someone restructures is completely up to them. Saturn teaches you that you have choices, but most of all, you NEED to make a decision and learn the importance of timing. You cannot sit on your hands, you cannot wait for things to fall in your lap. Saturn's return tends to give the feeling of urgency, the feeling of trouble brewing inside and outside of the person, but the individual must realize that it's completely up to them to DO something about it. Basically, Saturn will create the reality that you're on your own, and asks you the question, "so now what do you do?" You not only have to answer, you have to put your answer to action. You have to decide on something and work towards that goal.

As far as what I've personally experienced during my Saturn's return, as it's not over yet but here are a few things in no particular order...

1. Divorce from Leo/Scorpio/Virgo (this happened a 2 years before Saturn crossed my chart exact- basically, I kick started my Saturn's return with a divorce LOL) 2. Lost the job that I hated but started to pursue lines of work that I've always wanted which is writing 3. Emptied out my savings, trusts, so I ended up living off of very little money 4. Took a few random vacations on very little money and forced to rely on the "goodness" of others- and others did pull through for me 5. Had very brief and unsatisfying relationships that I complained weren't "real" 6. Lost some friends who were deadweights- was sad about it but realized it was for the better because I made room for 7. Made friends that are helpful towards me 8. Reconnected with my parents after 5 years of complete silence, namely my Dad 9. Reconnected with my old close friends I hadn't heard from in many years 10. The cat I had since my early college days died. I had spent $1000 of the little money I had for his hospitalization and giving him a rockstar death (learned that love comes with duties) 11. Dealt with constant feelings of lonliness, isolation, restrictions, lack of room to breathe 12. Learned to live with 75% less of everything and find out I have a great knack for the ascetic 13. Came back to being a vegetarian after my divorce, took up yoga, and returned from long hiatus from long distance cycling 14. In my early 20s I was flipping cars. During the early parts of my Saturn's return, I started flipping bikes 15. Realized that I love living alone so I rented a studio apartment in a fun, yet somewhat "shady" part of town but it's below market rate LOL 16. I became a more reliable friend, daughter, neighbor, worker, mother to my cat, and person overall. 17. Comfort my little cat who's experiencing transiting Saturn squaring his natal Saturn (he's starting to be bossy and demand love a bit more boldly) 18. I took the risk and moved back to LA (where I'm originally from) from San Francisco on very little money. Got rid of most of my worldy possessions and learned to not hold onto stuff as much.

Like I said, it's not over for me yet. I have this nagging feeling that I never do anything (typical of Saturn return effects) but looking back, I realized, I did a lot! Not everything happens gloom and doom. Some of my friends got married, bought a house, had kids, got fat, and live an a somewhat idyllic life with their family. I realized that, more or less, I "chose" to be single, athletic, and have freedom. Saturn does ask you, "What do you really want out of life?" and when you answer, he'll then ask, "What are you willing to do achieve that?" Saturn didn't become the Task Master out of vanity.
 
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may28gemini

To answer a previous question you asked, if I'm more Saturn or Jupiter because of my conjunction. I would say I'm pretty much both (creates Dr. Jerkyll and Mr. Hyde effect). Saturn isn't merciful but Jupiter is. It's very hard for me to operate my Saturn by throwing walls of reality at people without the Jupiter component of why I bother to do it in the first place- mercy. If I didn't care and I actually am cruel/mean, I would just let others stew in their own sludge and probably take great pleasure in it. I really don't take pleasure when people are in pain but I acknowledge that it's only pain and they have to go through it on their own. I'm not a moon person, I'm very Saturnian and Jupiterian as well- Saturn has to point out the negative so you can appreciate the positive (Jupiter). Jupiter wouldn't be loved nor shown any love if it weren't for Saturn giving Jupiter a reason to exist in the first place.

I don't know what you believe in, but you don't really need to "pray" to Saturn. All Saturn wants is for you to DO what you have to do, and do it the very best you can. Realism is the key to understanding Saturn, not spiritualism (which is Jupiter).
 

The_Saturnian

Well-known member
To answer a previous question you asked, if I'm more Saturn or Jupiter because of my conjunction. I would say I'm pretty much both (creates Dr. Jerkyll and Mr. Hyde effect). Saturn isn't merciful but Jupiter is. It's very hard for me to operate my Saturn by throwing walls of reality at people without the Jupiter component of why I bother to do it in the first place- mercy. If I didn't care and I actually am cruel/mean, I would just let others stew in their own sludge and probably take great pleasure in it. I really don't take pleasure when people are in pain but I acknowledge that it's only pain and they have to go through it on their own. I'm not a moon person, I'm very Saturnian and Jupiterian as well- Saturn has to point out the negative so you can appreciate the positive (Jupiter). Jupiter wouldn't be loved nor shown any love if it weren't for Saturn giving Jupiter a reason to exist in the first place.

I don't know what you believe in, but you don't really need to "pray" to Saturn. All Saturn wants is for you to DO what you have to do, and do it the very best you can. Realism is the key to understanding Saturn, not spiritualism (which is Jupiter).


Yes Saturn’s returns are quite thoroughly scrutinized by Vedic Astrologers and are delegated great importance. Sometimes I think they take the whole Saturn return thing, a bit too far because they seem to make it sound like it’s the ultimate mid-life crises someone could experience. This in-depth emphasis on Saturn’s return seems to instil unnecessary fear and worry in the subject’s mind for the duration of their return.

I’ve decided to pay attention to Western Astrology rather than Vedic (which I will leave for my dad to deal with Lol). As a result of sampling both, I feel that I am more intrigued by the Western system rather than the Vedic one. Plus things get even more complicated since Vedic Astrologers tend to study people’s natal charts from a lunar perspective (i.e. from Moon being in the first house). So the whole chart and all the planets get shifted around.

Perhaps you should start/administer a thread on this to do with all things associated to Saturn’s return.

I agree with the fact that Saturn is the Lord of Judgement/Karma. But when you say that that the return cuts of one’s ties with their previous incarnation, that would suggest that this life really begins at the age of 30 (i.e. upon completion of the first return). Right?

I must say that is a very detailed account of things that you have experienced during your Saturn return. It will nice to know what you experience for the remainder of your return.

I believe in the existence of the Supreme-One. Even though I was just kidding about praying to Saturn, I do have a serious confession to make. I actually do perform a certain prayer to Saturn on Saturdays to ward off Saturn’s malefic effects in general. I have particularly begun to do it more often on a Saturday especially since I was under the false impression that my Saturn return had already begun. But I have been doing my Saturn worship since pretty I was kid really. (Dad’s Vedic suggestions :p). But ultimately deeds/efforts outweigh prayers when it comes to the return.

P.S. Thanks for your answer on Jupiter and Saturn in Libra. I did find your co-relation to Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde in your explanation quite funny. Quite an apt description for such a circumstance though. I would have used something along the lines of “Clash of the Giants”.
 
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may28gemini

In respect to "mid-life" crisis feel, I would say Saturn is merciful. Saturn's 1st return is not a crisis, well, not for those who are willing to learn what Saturn teaches. For those who fight and whine when Saturn shoves you up against the wall and then dropping you down a well with no light, well, godspeed! The whole point of Saturn striping you of all your comforts is because you are going to start new. You must learn to lay your own foundation and start your life the way you want to live. That's why anyone who sits on their hands during their Saturn's return is really SOL and have no one but to blame themselves. So yes, karmically, 30 is when a person truly gets to start their current carnation. From birth to 30 (or so) is a time you outlive your previous carnation to rectify what you owe but also enjoy what you've earned. As I said before, it's a time to seriously think about what you want to DO with your life and how you're going to DO it. Libra Saturn is exalted simply because it's 1. cardinal and must initiate 2. Interested in balance and how to maintain balance 3. concerned with making everything fair for everyone 4. motivated by the greater good 5. learn that you cannot always get your way and have to give /take with society
Libra is fallen as the Sun position, but Saturn dislikes the Sun and takes what's fallen in the Sun to make it exalted in his position. Leo is dignity Sun but became detriment in Saturn. Aries is exalted Sun but Saturn makes Aries fallen. Saturn isn't vengeful, but he would actually be what I call, "fair," tit for tat. Libra Saturn people understand that yes, we were born alone and we shall die alone, but during life, we need to cooperate with one another and that involves giving and lessen our egos to achieve something far greater. Food for thought.

Clash of the Titans would be something like... Saturn conjoin Uranus... now that's nutty. Saturn conjoin Jupiter is better as Dr. Jerkyll and Mr. Hyde because it's 1 person struggling to meld 2 seemingly strong personas into 1 in order to live. For the most part, My Saturn and Jupiter don't fight each other, even with my Sun it's trine and won't fight my ego. Everything flows together and I think it's probably because I did some good in my previous carnations to be born with great Saturn positions. You can look at my chart in my album entitled "charts" and get practice reading Western charts.
 

Sandra0406

Active member
I have Saturn/Jupiter conjuction in 12th...I feel inside a struggle between child and adult...always come back to childhood memories,I am often very depressed.. return to the past... behave childishly...constantly going back,and on the other hand aware that I should accept the reality and responsibility for a present life,and the need to deal with the truths I have learned through life...because of this struggle,I feel very confused,and therefore I can not see anything positive in this position...
 

The_Saturnian

Well-known member
I have Saturn/Jupiter conjuction in 12th...I feel inside a struggle between child and adult...always come back to childhood memories,I am often very depressed.. return to the past... behave childishly...constantly going back,and on the other hand aware that I should accept the reality and responsibility for a present life,and the need to deal with the truths I have learned through life...because of this struggle,I feel very confused,and therefore I can not see anything positive in this position...

Awww I feel for you Sandra. Don't worry though, as you may have read earlier in this thread Saturn, and possibly other threads relating to Saturn, he is the Lord of Karma/Judgement/Time etc. Although its difficult to get through one's life with such a combination which makes one's life a great struggle. Just remember that Saturn is a great teacher as may28Gemini has stated and irrespective of what he puts us through, he makes us stronger by the day :).
 

The_Saturnian

Well-known member
In respect to "mid-life" crisis feel, I would say Saturn is merciful. Saturn's 1st return is not a crisis, well, not for those who are willing to learn what Saturn teaches. For those who fight and whine when Saturn shoves you up against the wall and then dropping you down a well with no light, well, godspeed! The whole point of Saturn striping you of all your comforts is because you are going to start new. You must learn to lay your own foundation and start your life the way you want to live. That's why anyone who sits on their hands during their Saturn's return is really SOL and have no one but to blame themselves. So yes, karmically, 30 is when a person truly gets to start their current carnation. From birth to 30 (or so) is a time you outlive your previous carnation to rectify what you owe but also enjoy what you've earned. As I said before, it's a time to seriously think about what you want to DO with your life and how you're going to DO it. Libra Saturn is exalted simply because it's 1. cardinal and must initiate 2. Interested in balance and how to maintain balance 3. concerned with making everything fair for everyone 4. motivated by the greater good 5. learn that you cannot always get your way and have to give /take with society
Libra is fallen as the Sun position, but Saturn dislikes the Sun and takes what's fallen in the Sun to make it exalted in his position. Leo is dignity Sun but became detriment in Saturn. Aries is exalted Sun but Saturn makes Aries fallen. Saturn isn't vengeful, but he would actually be what I call, "fair," tit for tat. Libra Saturn people understand that yes, we were born alone and we shall die alone, but during life, we need to cooperate with one another and that involves giving and lessen our egos to achieve something far greater. Food for thought.

Clash of the Titans would be something like... Saturn conjoin Uranus... now that's nutty. Saturn conjoin Jupiter is better as Dr. Jerkyll and Mr. Hyde because it's 1 person struggling to meld 2 seemingly strong personas into 1 in order to live. For the most part, My Saturn and Jupiter don't fight each other, even with my Sun it's trine and won't fight my ego. Everything flows together and I think it's probably because I did some good in my previous carnations to be born with great Saturn positions. You can look at my chart in my album entitled "charts" and get practice reading Western charts.

Just out of curiosity, where did/does the whole theory of the first 30 years of one's life begin at their age 30 (or thereabouts)? Ever since you made mention of it in your last post, it's really got stuck in my head LOL. I just find it to be quite an amazing theory, plus when I think of people that I know who have surpassed their age 30 I can re-collate some of their events that they described to me in conversations I had with them which they couldn't explain why minute their life was A-ok and suddenly, BAM! They feel like everything is beginning to fall around.

I can relate to Saturn being uncomfortable with all things 'fire' in astrology from a Vedic point of view. According to ancient Vedic history Shani (Saturn) was the son of Surya (The Sun - a representation of fire) and father and son never saw eye to eye. He also constantly felt unloved/isolated from his siblings. So from that it is but natural for Saturn not to feel comfortable with all things 'fire'.
 
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may28gemini

Saturn is cold, logical, and masculine. He represents societal pressures. At the worst representation is to conform, at the best is to contribute. Saturn must be that way because he was ambitious enough to stand up for his Mother (Earth- Gaia) from his father mistreating her. After he overthrew his father, Uranus, his term of rulership was known as the Golden Age where everyone did as they were suppose to and everyone did live in happiness... only he didn't want any of his children to overthrow him and swallowed them all LOL but that's why Saturn must rule the MC as that is representative of how we are all tied and duty bound to greater society and the IC is Cancer's domain which was something that Saturn is fallen in (personal/family life).

My "theory" of life truly starting at 30 or thereabouts (Saturn's 1st Return) is derived from me. Now, I'm sure there's astrologers (I'm not an astrologer) that would agree with me or have concepts that are similar, but what I wrote is my little take on Saturn's 1st Return 101. Whatever I write in the boards are NOT textbook, they are my interpretations and my own observations. People on this board are so reliant on texts and what others have to say about things. I find that the best way to learn is to observe, experience, and formulate your own concepts. But then again, you should have gotten practice by read my chart... I have Sun, Venus, Mercury in the 9th house. My MC conjuncts Mercury. I am very concerned with ideas and my identity comes from my strong abilities to formulate such ideas LOL

Going back to Saturn representing fears and societal pressures: only an adult would feel such sharp emotions about themselves, question how they are a part of society as a whole, and then actually do something about it. A child would pout, whine, cry about how they're not accepted in society and refuses to participate. People in their 20s are some of the BIGGEST whiners about everything- they don't do anything other than cry and run back to their parents. A lot of people in their 20s have self-bravado and arrogance that no doubt irk Saturn and by the time those fools hit their Saturn's return, the ego gets stripped and self-entitlement is a thing of the past. Around 30 is when the slate is cleaned off, the playing field is slightly more leveled and you have to stand up on your own with little or no help. By then, your family would consider you to be TOO old to assist anymore so you're going to have to do everything on your own. Your friends that you've had since childhood could have been outgrown, maybe you're moving in a different direction than they are, etc. The friends you keep post Saturn's return may very well be the ones you'll keep forever. That would explain why the person would "suddenly" feel like everything is crashing down upon them, when in REALITY, everything is actually getting focused and crystal clear: the person learns they are NOT as great as they thought they were, they are not invincible- they are mortal and are subject to all the rules and regulations of the universe: consequence.

The concept of consequence becomes a major theme for everyone going through their Saturn's return because Saturn doesn't bring about consequence, Saturn just makes you see it. Consequence has always been in existence, but nearly everyone has been blinded to it (at some point in their early lives) by the Sun (self ego) that they are oblivious to what's really happening in the world around them. Saturn is the TimeKeeper and will make you feel your own mortality. Saturn will show you that since you're not getting younger, better get your butt in gear and do what you were born to do- find a purpose and fulfill it, seek out those who are real and can help you grow (major Libra Saturn theme), contribute to society and live the way you want to live while being respectful to those around you.

I write about Saturn's intent- it is not doom, it a 2nd chance. Saturn will teach you what your parents couldn't teach you- you grow by learning and experience. If you don't learn, expect to repeat the same mess over and over again. Not a lot of people understand nor can articulate Saturn's modus operandi very well because the truth is, most people are not good with Saturn (on a karmic level) and do not look for the benefit behind the drudgery. Most people do not have strong Saturnian positions and get into more trouble which will make them karmically responsible to pay back not only in this carnation, but in the next one too. Saturn is always tit for tat and you'll always get what you paid for from him.
 

The_Saturnian

Well-known member
My "theory" of life truly starting at 30 or thereabouts (Saturn's 1st Return) is derived from me. Now, I'm sure there's astrologers (I'm not an astrologer) that would agree with me or have concepts that are similar, but what I wrote is my little take on Saturn's 1st Return 101. Whatever I write in the boards are NOT textbook, they are my interpretations and my own observations. People on this board are so reliant on texts and what others have to say about things. I find that the best way to learn is to observe, experience, and formulate your own concepts. But then again, you should have gotten practice by read my chart... I have Sun, Venus, Mercury in the 9th house. My MC conjuncts Mercury. I am very concerned with ideas and my identity comes from my strong abilities to formulate such ideas LOL

Going back to Saturn representing fears and societal pressures: only an adult would feel such sharp emotions about themselves, question how they are a part of society as a whole, and then actually do something about it. A child would pout, whine, cry about how they're not accepted in society and refuses to participate. People in their 20s are some of the BIGGEST whiners about everything- they don't do anything other than cry and run back to their parents. A lot of people in their 20s have self-bravado and arrogance that no doubt irk Saturn and by the time those fools hit their Saturn's return, the ego gets stripped and self-entitlement is a thing of the past. Around 30 is when the slate is cleaned off, the playing field is slightly more leveled and you have to stand up on your own with little or no help. By then, your family would consider you to be TOO old to assist anymore so you're going to have to do everything on your own. Your friends that you've had since childhood could have been outgrown, maybe you're moving in a different direction than they are, etc. The friends you keep post Saturn's return may very well be the ones you'll keep forever. That would explain why the person would "suddenly" feel like everything is crashing down upon them, when in REALITY, everything is actually getting focused and crystal clear: the person learns they are NOT as great as they thought they were, they are not invincible- they are mortal and are subject to all the rules and regulations of the universe: consequence.

The concept of consequence becomes a major theme for everyone going through their Saturn's return because Saturn doesn't bring about consequence, Saturn just makes you see it. Consequence has always been in existence, but nearly everyone has been blinded to it (at some point in their early lives) by the Sun (self ego) that they are oblivious to what's really happening in the world around them. Saturn is the TimeKeeper and will make you feel your own mortality. Saturn will show you that since you're not getting younger, better get your butt in gear and do what you were born to do- find a purpose and fulfill it, seek out those who are real and can help you grow (major Libra Saturn theme), contribute to society and live the way you want to live while being respectful to those around you.

I write about Saturn's intent- it is not doom, it a 2nd chance. Saturn will teach you what your parents couldn't teach you- you grow by learning and experience. If you don't learn, expect to repeat the same mess over and over again. Not a lot of people understand nor can articulate Saturn's modus operandi very well because the truth is, most people are not good with Saturn (on a karmic level) and do not look for the benefit behind the drudgery. Most people do not have strong Saturnian positions and get into more trouble which will make them karmically responsible to pay back not only in this carnation, but in the next one too. Saturn is always tit for tat and you'll always get what you paid for from him.

A very interesting observation you have theorised about Saturn's effect on people around their 30 mark. I'll take some inspiration from you and try and devise my own theories based on things I will observe from now on. I will most definitely read the 4 charts you have posted (in particular your cat's - I didn't know people actually drew up their pet's charts. That one did crack me up LOL!)
 
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may28gemini

maybe you can help me figure out my cat's rising. i'm tempting at setting his rising as Libra like me, since we both have Pisces moon (expressive face). he is meticulous and neat. he also exhibits control over his eating proportions. heh, he's smarter than most people... :D
 

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may28gemini

yeah i know. he has saturn mc. at one point i thought about entering him into cat shows but i realized that meant i would have to be there and i hate spotlight so i decided against it. poor thing has debilitated Cancer Saturn. i rescued him when he was a kitten at 1 month old. he's nearly 8 years old, very insecure and thinks i'll abandon him. that's another trait to mark about debilitated Saturns: the fear of abandonment never really ever go away.

fortunately for lil guy (his name), he has exalted Saturn taking care of him :cool:
 

The_Saturnian

Well-known member
I'll definately have to look at Lil Guy's chart inparticular. I may have to resort to close-up chiromancy to work out his rising sign. Certain facial features can be indicative of what the subject's rising sign is.
 
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may28gemini

Sandra, I only use whole sign house system and you have Saturn in the 1st. I think the reason why you've been mostly depressed and gloomy is because T Saturn transit your N Pluto. When T Saturn crossed my N Pluto (I think it was Nov last year) I was extremely depressed and laid low for all of November. I had major authority clashes with my living situation (complicated) where I battled (power struggle) with my roommate for him taking more money from me and sucking up the entire space in the house except for my room. After Nov, I started to feel cheery again.

Also, you have Asc conjunct Pluto which is a serious, quiet, alone sort of position. Saturn transit your Asc (as he did mine 2 years ago) and brought about some major changes which could have also contributed to your gloominess. No, you don't want Saturn in 12th, your Saturn is in 1st and your identity has undergone a major transformation.
 

Sandra0406

Active member
Sandra, I only use whole sign house system and you have Saturn in the 1st. I think the reason why you've been mostly depressed and gloomy is because T Saturn transit your N Pluto. When T Saturn crossed my N Pluto (I think it was Nov last year) I was extremely depressed and laid low for all of November. I had major authority clashes with my living situation (complicated) where I battled (power struggle) with my roommate for him taking more money from me and sucking up the entire space in the house except for my room. After Nov, I started to feel cheery again.

Also, you have Asc conjunct Pluto which is a serious, quiet, alone sort of position. Saturn transit your Asc (as he did mine 2 years ago) and brought about some major changes which could have also contributed to your gloominess. No, you don't want Saturn in 12th, your Saturn is in 1st and your identity has undergone a major transformation.

Thanks a lot!!!Yes,you're right...When will it end up that Saturn's transit through the ASC?
 
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may28gemini

Well... I think because the effects are all slow and dragged out and you have late Libra rising...I would think it'll ease up for you when Saturn goes to Scorpio. For the most part Saturn has left your asc alone but he's finishing up in Libra so just to be safe- not until Oct.
 
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may28gemini

I forgot to tell you T Saturn conjunct N Pluto is very yucky. That's when there's a lot of power clashes. My car got towed 2x in one month during that transit. My roommate overcharged me rent then accused me of not being responsible for my cat LOL
 

Sandra0406

Active member
Well... I think because the effects are all slow and dragged out and you have late Libra rising...I would think it'll ease up for you when Saturn goes to Scorpio. For the most part Saturn has left your asc alone but he's finishing up in Libra so just to be safe- not until Oct.

Oh, that's good news,I thought it would take much longer...I will handle that...:biggrin:
 
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may28gemini

sandra- sorry, i forgot you and i have similar outer planetary degrees!

we both have N Pluto 21 libra and when T Saturn hit 21 libra was late Oct 2011 and the YUCK effects lasted into say... the first week of December. was that the time frame when you felt really challenged by authority and you were NOT able to get your way? did you feel very badly depressed and gloomy like you have no one to turn to? because i totally felt that way. like i said, my car got towed 2x in the month and money issues exploded between me and my Capricorn roommate. on top of that, i wanted to go home and visit my parents but didn't have any money to do and felt stuck in the drudgery of an awful mood!

unfortunately for you, as T Saturn was ending the conjunction with your N Pluto, T Saturn started to conjunct your Asc at 24 Libra. that's probably why you've felt a very long stretch of loneliness and gloom.

right now Saturn is back at 22 Libra LOL so he's messing with our Pluto again (and your Asc)!!!! what's funny is, i've had power struggle- with my neighbors for messing with my apt (spray painting the front of it and messing with my mail) a few days ago when Saturn would have been in 21 Libra (exact conjunction) and i acted VERY plutonian (stood my ground). guess what? they actually were afraid i'd cause them more trouble so they stopped. very weird.

i wonder if because we had the same transits happening to us around the same time if we both felt similar?
 
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