Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
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conspiracy theorist
Well-known member
It's no trouble. I like to pick the brains of experienced practitioners and I appreciate any response I can get from them.
There's a personal component, since I have Ur/Pl=Ma and Ne/Pl= Ma in my chart, and I wanted to compare with people you might have happened to know. I'll take up the investigation independently.
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david starling
Well-known member
Cary, what's your take on Yods--meaningful or not important? I mean, do you consider them significant?
ForestFairy
Well-known member
I do have pluto square mars.
And have lived with a feeling of being 'bad' person, especially when i don't feel well people seem to feel it.
I also have venus moon and mercury at my MC. When i just feel good, people approach me very lovingly.
This contrast made me isolate myself, to hide from people, because i don't want to have bad influence.
And have lived with a feeling of being 'bad' person, especially when i don't feel well people seem to feel it.
I also have venus moon and mercury at my MC. When i just feel good, people approach me very lovingly.
This contrast made me isolate myself, to hide from people, because i don't want to have bad influence.
Cary2
Banned
I'm sorry; speculation like that out of context is something I try to avoid. Orbs are so important. The rest of the chart is so important.
I said earlier that angular Pluto and Moon/Mars are often found in charts of bullies, but it is the height of folly to say that everyone with with such aspects is a bully. Forums are full acrimonious disputes because hostile people love to jump to such conclusions. They are looking for something in one of your statements to use against you with the most dishonest motives imaginable.
I know of a seasoned astrologer with an exalted sense of self-importance who condemned Robert Pellitier and his fine book "Planets in Aspect" because he said something unflattering about an aspect in her chart. She probably persecuted me because I unknowingly did something similar. I swear, you find little else in a forum, and you enter at your own risk.
When you go to a forum, you are in the presence of many people like that, and the fact that they identify as astrologers does not matter. Its just one of the many claims they will make that you should reconsider often.
That is why you might see me withdraw from certain things.
Cary2
Banned
Of course that is something that changes from astrologer to astrologer, and astrologers like to defend their pet doctrines.
My opinion is that aspects are harmonics, and there are no minor aspects, except the more "minor" the aspect, the less the orb allowed. Minor aspects near to exact can dominate a chart if most aspects have a wide orb.
I use the quincunx because it belongs to the Twelfth Harmonic, but since 12 is much removed from 1, it deserves only a small orb. A quincunx is usually not very strong if the orb is greater than one-degree, but it is not insignificant if the orb is less than two degrees. If there is a significant aspect to the midpoint of a quincunx, that is a justification for allowing a much wider orb for the quincunx.
Some astrologers attribute the quincunx to death and dying because the angle between 0-deg Scorpio and 0-deg Aries, the zodiac inception, is 150-deg. I do not. I find such reasoning spurious. Some people attribute sickness to the quincunx because 0-deg Virgo is 150-deg from the 0-deg Aries point. I don't use that reasoning, but sickness is often involved because the quincunx usually signifies strain, so does the semi-sextile. This I base on harmonic research. Strain is a good keyword for the quincunx.
I think "mildly beneficial" is a bad interpretation of the semi-sextile.
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david starling
Well-known member
What about out-of-sign Aspects?
david starling
Well-known member
Standard-modern is strict about a Trine, even one with a geometrically tight , 2 or 3 degree Orb, being within Signs of the same Element. I read that the ancient astrologers were less strict about it.
This applies to placements in the 1-2 degree part of one Sign, and the 28-29 degree part of another.
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david starling
Well-known member
Cary, as far as you know, did Kepler abandon the Signs, with their Modalities and Elements, and go with Aspects only?
Cary2
Banned
I have limited knowledge about Kepler. I think you must speak archaic German if you want to research the topic. I only know that he had his doubts about houses, and he wasn't much more confident about signs. He had a dim view of most of the astrologers known to him.
He was loathe to do predictions, but he was in considerable demand, and he could not refuse the income. He accepted positions as court astrologer because they were lucrative. He was personally fascinated with his preferred research which included weather forecasting.
He was a brilliant scientist, and modern scientists love to praise his brilliance, but they disingenuously describe him as foe of astrology which is a manifestly untrue. He was blisteringly critical of his contemporaries, but he was an enthusiastic astrologer his whole life.
He was loathe to do predictions, but he was in considerable demand, and he could not refuse the income. He accepted positions as court astrologer because they were lucrative. He was personally fascinated with his preferred research which included weather forecasting.
He was a brilliant scientist, and modern scientists love to praise his brilliance, but they disingenuously describe him as foe of astrology which is a manifestly untrue. He was blisteringly critical of his contemporaries, but he was an enthusiastic astrologer his whole life.
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conspiracy theorist
Well-known member
The orb for each planetary midpoint is a single degree. And I mean, if you want to get technical/be consistent, you've already indulged in speculation of that kind by sharing views on these aspects without a look at any charts. But, I understand that "once bitten, twice shy" and I will respect that.
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Cary2
Banned
When you say "these aspects" I don't know what you mean. If I speculate what you mean then I think you are wrong.
Are "these aspects" Moon/Mars and angular Pluto?
conspiracy theorist
Well-known member
"These aspects" are Mars/Pluto and Mars/Uranus in general, and not in the context of a chart. What I asked of you (and which you have every right in not complying) is not anything different in kind to what you've already stated, just different in complexity since I asked you about a 4 planet combination, with a follow up question about examples so I could see the combo working "in reality".
Also, I could've taken your general statement about the combination and applied it to my situation; I wasn't asking for a chart read nor would I attack you if you happened to say something "offensive" about my supposed aspects. I've been in many discussions where aspects I have had been tarred and feathered; I'm not bothered by negative opinions about "my astrology" and I am not going to close my ears to someone who happens to say something bad about an aspect or configuration that happens to be in my chart.
I don't see how right and wrong has got anything to do with this, and I would like to reiterate that I respect your desire not to share.
Also, I could've taken your general statement about the combination and applied it to my situation; I wasn't asking for a chart read nor would I attack you if you happened to say something "offensive" about my supposed aspects. I've been in many discussions where aspects I have had been tarred and feathered; I'm not bothered by negative opinions about "my astrology" and I am not going to close my ears to someone who happens to say something bad about an aspect or configuration that happens to be in my chart.
I don't see how right and wrong has got anything to do with this, and I would like to reiterate that I respect your desire not to share.
Whoam1
Well-known member
Just a study that I've seen one of the highest aspect common in killers/murders is Mars-Venus.(crimes of passion)
Mars-Uranus is one of the other highest ones. (Low frustration tolerance)
Mars-Pluto isnt high In murder rates, however is high in suicides.
I have Mars square Venus (and 9th harmonic Uranus conj Venus). Venus/Uranus midpoint sits partile on my sun. Mars/Uranus midpoint 45 from my sun as well.
Uranus+Mars is very Scorpio like. (My Venus in all of this is in Scorpio so it doesn't help balance anything).
I can say that people with the Mars/Uranus energy are probably more what I would consider dangerous to others verus Pluto-Mars which tend to be more inwardly destructive. [Venus and Uranus are social add that with physical and angry Mars, its Pluto is anti-social added with Mars].
Mars-Uranus is one of the other highest ones. (Low frustration tolerance)
Mars-Pluto isnt high In murder rates, however is high in suicides.
I have Mars square Venus (and 9th harmonic Uranus conj Venus). Venus/Uranus midpoint sits partile on my sun. Mars/Uranus midpoint 45 from my sun as well.
Uranus+Mars is very Scorpio like. (My Venus in all of this is in Scorpio so it doesn't help balance anything).
I can say that people with the Mars/Uranus energy are probably more what I would consider dangerous to others verus Pluto-Mars which tend to be more inwardly destructive. [Venus and Uranus are social add that with physical and angry Mars, its Pluto is anti-social added with Mars].
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david starling
Well-known member
Spotlight on Mars! For some reason, possibly feeling its effects when it transited Taurus, I've been way more focused on it than usual. C.t. has always given it a great deal of attention, as I recall.
Cary2
Banned
I think if you conduct such a survey using the midpoint patterns of Cosmobiogists, you will come to a different conclusion. I have experience with murder charts, and midpoints are key. I think neglecting them is more dangerous than ignoring a family of aspects. Most of the astrologers I've known, by far, really don't care about midpoints.
The process of synthesis is important to judging such a case. Synthesis reveals why Mars/Pluto, for instance, is more consequential in one chart than another.
Cary2
Banned
I understand. For me, the signs affected by any aspect are helpful in interpreting the aspect, but an out-of-sign aspect is still judged by me based on orb. Being out of sign does not contradict its orb and geometry.
I think some of the aspect theory of Ptolemy verges on the perverse.
conspiracy theorist
Well-known member
Speaking of, I've noticed a curiosity since Mars ingressed into Gemini. There's been an increase in sprained hands with the guys I work with, especially those who have more hands on jobs. In my own case, my left hand looks like a chew toy, but my injuries came at the end of Mars in Taurus.
david starling
Well-known member
Thanks! I'll watch out for my hands.