Ethics of astrological interpretation.

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Frisiangal

Well-known member
Hi Everyone,
I don't know which section this query should be placed, so am placing it here.

I am feeling a dilemma of conscience.
How do you treat, and what do you do when a chart seems to scream a particular message, yet that would not be positive of nature for the client to hear?

As many may be aware I am not medically trained, yet have a passion for health astrology. For a number of years I have been collecting and studying the charts of those individuals with a particular medically diagnosed, yet not terminal, disorder. A particular astrological pattern appears to emerge that recurs more than would be expected.

I believe it to be in this vein that, privately, I have recently been given and asked to comment upon the birth data of a new born. The chart has the particular pattern that, together with other aspects, could strongly be associated with a challenging life.
It's almost as if 'put your money where your mouth is' is being asked of/ shown me; the proof of/in the astrological pudding. In my personal life from the health perspective, it's happened so often: The proverbial nail on the head.

With the current zika virus epidemic obviously worrying all new mums, I replied not working with new born charts and suggested that she contact the appropriate authorities if she is unduly concerned by any pattern.
I feel as if I am being dishonest, even endangering the child's possibilites in life, yet cannot physically prove anything.

What should the astrologer do in such circumstances if and when their 'gut feeling' about a situation is so strong?
 
K

katydid

Well-known member
You are not being dishonest. But you are not ethically charged with giving this potentially bad news. I am assuming they will be getting all of their medical checkups/ They will find out about any medical issues so you do not have o feel that it is your responsibility. It is a tough situation.
 
Kitchy

Kitchy

Banned
Hello Friesengal,

I have so many health questions for you it's not funny - but I don't ask because I wouldn't expect you to be anything other than direct and earnest by what you know and have learned.

So I just assume i'm dying or headed for the emergency room or better life to fight it. Jupiter/Saturn conj Cap in 6th. I know the teachers who teach right.

That being said - I don't think people should ask questions they don't really want an honest answer too and I don't think astrologers should give them the answer they want if it means holding back knowledge.

Defining the areas of health in a chart - the possible bumps - based on tried and true astrology - that's not bad. The person asking needs to deal with the answer as they would any other advice on the matter.

If people are depressed or fearful - saturn or pluto will send them your way. Watch out for those ones.

I have been reading your medical astrology for years - on forums - and I think you are completely decent even when you put a sticker onto something someone doesn't want to hear but asked.
 
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F

Frisiangal

Well-known member
Hi,
Thank you both for taking the time to reply and giving your views.

'Not ethically charged ..... to feel responsible' is an alternative viewpoint.
When to apply it is what can be so challenging.
It is true that most people want only positive answers to their queries. So much cotton wool is necessary at times to make any landing softer.


How do you treat, and what do you do when a chart seems to scream a particular message, yet that would not be positive of nature for the client to hear?..............................

What should the astrologer do in such circumstances if and when their 'gut feeling' about a situation is so strong?
Click to expand...

It appears that there aren't many on the forum who ever have, or face(d) such a dilemma, whatever it may concern. Lucky them (or they?):smile:.

The concerned mum has not made any further contact, so appears to have accepted my reply to her.

Thanks again.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Frisiangal said:
Hi Everyone,
I don't know which section this query should be placed, so am placing it here.

I am feeling a dilemma of conscience.
How do you treat, and what do you do when a chart seems to scream a particular message, yet that would not be positive of nature for the client to hear?

As many may be aware I am not medically trained, yet have a passion for health astrology. For a number of years I have been collecting and studying the charts of those individuals with a particular medically diagnosed, yet not terminal, disorder. A particular astrological pattern appears to emerge that recurs more than would be expected.

I believe it to be in this vein that, privately, I have recently been given and asked to comment upon the birth data of a new born. The chart has the particular pattern that, together with other aspects, could strongly be associated with a challenging life.
It's almost as if 'put your money where your mouth is' is being asked of/ shown me; the proof of/in the astrological pudding. In my personal life from the health perspective, it's happened so often: The proverbial nail on the head.

With the current zika virus epidemic obviously worrying all new mums, I replied not working with new born charts and suggested that she contact the appropriate authorities if she is unduly concerned by any pattern.
I feel as if I am being dishonest, even endangering the child's possibilites in life, yet cannot physically prove anything.

What should the astrologer do in such circumstances if and when their 'gut feeling' about a situation is so strong?
Click to expand...
Hi Frisiangal :smile:

dr. farr has not posted on the forum for some time
however
on a similar ethical considerations thread
dr farr did make a very brief observation re: his own personal ethics related to health matters
as follows:
dr. farr said:
I'll tell you what I do, here on AW, regarding this issue
(my attitude and the actions I take, which I do NOT claim to be "right" or wrong,
but merely what I do, based on my OWN principles regarding truth, beauty and honor)

-reading a posted question, that interests me and that involves my making a prediction
(actually, my making of an estimation of the likely results of Cosmic trends, since I do NOT believe that the future can be KNOWN except by a prophet of the Divinity),
I then make my estimation (delineation)

-if this delineation is negative (for example a "no" answer to a horary question) I simply do not post my delineation to that thread
-if this delineation is positive, I post my delineation
-however, if the OP has received other answers on their thread and:
a) the OP requests yet more answers than the ones they have already received
or
b) the OP specifically requests me to post a response
or
c) I have responded to previous questions by the OP on other threads, and in this way the OP has previously "gotten to know me"...

THEN

-I will post my negative delineation of the OP's question.

IF this answer of mine (whether favorable or negative regarding the OP's question) involves HORARY, I ALWAYS head my horary delineation with a disclaimer that what I am doing is NOT generally accepted horary practice.


If this delineation of mine involves ANY matter pertaining to health,
I ALWAYS suggest medical investigation of whatever health problem the individual is concerned with,
and I further state that what I am posting is ONLY MY OPINION,
based on astrological principles
-as I understand those principles.
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Therese

Therese

Well-known member
hi Frisiangal,

If I try and put myself in your shoes, what I would look for in the baby's chart would be about the parental care they receive. If nothing in their chart suggest neglect or harm coming from the parents, then I would suppose they will pay enough attention to their baby to seek help as soon as it is needed. On the other hand, if the baby's chart shows neglect etc in the home environment, I would probably insist that the child needs some extra attention and care because their constitution is sensitive. This way, you do not freak the parents out but you will achieve your goal: you will communicate that their baby is somewhat fragile, and they should pay more attention and seek medical help earlier/for milder symptoms than they normally would.

what do you think about that?
 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
Excellent question for all of us, Frisiangal.

The ethics codes of ISAR http://www.isarastrology.com/images/EthicsV5.pdf and NCGR https://geocosmic.org/about-ncgr/code-of-ethics/ may offer some guidance.

From ISAR:


Never needlessly frighten a client withextreme predictions, nor create false hopes in a client, and always affirm that every astrological configuration can manifest in a variety of ways.
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You might tell the parents something like, "Sometimes children with astrological signature 'X' are prone to health condition 'Y' so as your child matures, it would be good to have him tested, just in case, and so that you can take advantage of early medical intervention."

(Maybe not quite in this way, but you see the point.) That way you give the parents a heads-up without making a dire prediction that, based on your own research, may actually not happen for any given child.


 
Kitchy

Kitchy

Banned
Waybread - I think Fri is very good at IsAr. She only scares people who are willing to ask and read between the lines and she should never halt her expertise on that. She diagnosed a gall bladder and balance disorder once that I was blown away at. Who needs a doctor when you know what the problem is? You then go to ancient healing/old wives tales/ God healing for the problem identified. I believe this.
It is not an astrologer's job to treat as it is it is to diagnose - usually then done with practical advice and offering from astrologer's and others.

I never read the question of Fri's inquiry - but a question asked honestly gets an honest response, and if the querant really wants to know what - then they ask or complain.

More and more, I see folks infiltrate astrology like it's a Hasbro 8 Ball with 12 defined answers on a double side 6 thing.

I applaud Fri, but I am saddened by her questioning of her own worth value or hesitation in her knowledge of Medical Astrology.

Sometimes more folks are listening than the ones who are asking.
 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
Kitchy, I have great respect for Frisiangal and her knowledge of general and medical astrology. She strikes me as a sensitive person, moreover.

The issue as I read it was more about how to broach the topic to the parents.

Also, today, I think astrologers should be careful not to appear to practice medicine without a license. Embedding a medical reading in some disclaimers and qualifiers is a good idea. Give the reading, but qualify it ("often," "sometimes,") with encouragement to follow through with one's doctor seems like a sensible way to proceed.
 
F

Frisiangal

Well-known member
Hi Everyone,
Once again my thanks for the further replies to what I believe can be, or is, a tricky situation for serious astrologers. I mean no disrespect at all to those who follow the books subject lines, yet I also believe that every serious astrologer knows they are based upon proven examples whilst there is so much more that could be said yet is not written.

JupiterAsc. Thank you for finding the ethical quote from Dr. Farr. I
searched the files page to page the long way but couldn't find anything. My actions are almost the same as his. The difference between us is that he is/was a qualified homeopath with practical medical training who can/could use his practical medical knowledge in 'astrological diagnosis', whereas I only have the study of correlating astrological symbolism to the physical body.

Therese: I sincerely appreciate your sensitivity in perspective. What I have experienced is that when anyone asks for astrological guidance, they can read over and dismiss 300 words, picking up on one remark or sentance that is not completely positive. E.g. Even doing as you suggest and
mentioning a baby's need of extra attention, or its fragility, could have the adverse effect of freaking instead of calming the parents. '
In the chart, there were harsh aspects between Sun-Moon-Jupiter, Mercury-Pluto, Mars-Uranus, and Saturn-Neptune; all rulers angles and 6th house.

This was my most recent dilemma; which course to take. Being totally honest or using the cotton wool method. It could be said of any reply to any query. I've yet to read a forum question from anyone completely happy with their life.:smile:

Thank you Waybread for the Ethics codes sites. I believe you would say I've always followed them as best as is possible; possibly a reason for the conscience pricking now.

Kitchy; thank you for your kind words. You've most probably hit the nail on the head and it does all come down to self-questioning.
 
Kitchy

Kitchy

Banned
I read your posts like I eat an apple a day to keep the doctor away, Fris - and p.s. I know you know more about horary than the basics.

How does a traditional medical astrologer not know horary?

Me thinks your fear factor is in the way.

Eff the Fear Factor in Astrology. Why ask, why offer, if there is hesitation?

-The modernist asks of the the traditionalist in earnest quest, who still offers- if you doubt yourself, others will doubt you?

Is that a Mars or Saturn thing going on?

I'm with Saturn - better the devil you know than the devil you don't - the precusor to Pluto's in the hospital/asylum because s/he didn't like the answer.

God meant for the body to regenerate itself. God made the heavens. I am of that non-religious truth. Seers are Mercury.
 
F

Frisiangal

Well-known member
Kitchy said:
Fris - and p.s. I know you know more about horary than the basics.

How does a traditional medical astrologer not know horary?
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I didn't learn medical astrology through the traditional approach.
That said, for the last few years I have been applying the traditional rulers to the signs in matters of health, where so many health issues can find an influence from natal Moon, but without the further traditional techniques.

Me thinks your fear factor is in the way.

Eff the Fear Factor in Astrology. Why ask, why offer, if there is hesitation?

-The modernist asks of the the traditionalist in earnest quest, who still offers- if you doubt yourself, others will doubt you?

Is that a Mars or Saturn thing going on?
Click to expand...

It doesn't 'feel' as fear. It isn't hesitation or doubt but more of a restriction holding back because of the feeling of responsibility involved in stating the facts as they are, as shown in the chart. Moon in Cap. influence. 3 years of Pluto transit over it, together with other major progressions and transits during the same period, does feel to be bringing about a change in many way. Yet that responsibility trait remains to weigh heavy, which doesn't feel wrong even though it may complicate matters.:rolleyes:

God meant for the body to regenerate itself. God made the heavens. I am of that non-religious truth. Seers are Mercury.
Click to expand...

Mercury is in my 9th house, yet that's ethics of another kind.:smile:
Does an astrologer desire to be a seer? In my case it was simply a desire to understand what makes people tick, why they are as they are and, later, how, where and why the pain issues originate that can correspond to, and bring about the physical discomforts.
Hindsight is a learning process; it's the possible foresight, as per the example of the new born's chart, that is the challenge. Maybe Saturn's self-imposed barrier to go no further because of the consequences? Fear after all.:smile:

Again, my thanks for your views.
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Dubyadude1986

Dubyadude1986

Well-known member
I saw someone born in 2001 asking for an astrological interpretation. I thought that it would be inappropriate to try to perform the interpretation, considering the circumstance.

Would some of you want people interpreting your children's charts on the internet? Why or why not? I would expect many no's, but you never know.
 
Kitchy

Kitchy

Banned
Dubya -

I think if an astrologer is knowledgeable and believes in the strength of the knowledge they have - yes, they can offer insight on even an infant's chart reading. With hope, others confirm or dismiss or learn anew. I totally see your point about the internet, but this is a matter that requires discernment on the side of the one asking. The ancients read charts of babies born as a duty.

Why should a skilled astrologer 'hold back' on what they see, understand and convey or advise? That just enforces a dummy-ing-down of Astrology, leaving it to the ones who don't have the knowledge, to answer.

In the late 80's, my son's dad worked with a gal who was a professional astrologer and she looked at my son's chart shortly after he was born and her first response was "you'll need to pay attention to who is friends will be" - (pluto in 11th exact trine moon in 7th in his chart) my mother, who was an avid astrologer of many years, said the same thing - 'watch out for the groups he hangs out with'. I We were mindful of that when he was 12-13, and a couple of his friends were less than desired in his parents' general friend category (shoplifting, ditching school) . They got wiped out pretty quickly by his parents' vigilance. He hated us for a wink until he saw those same kids go to juvie or drop out.

I don't believe astrology ever is too early and I want to hope that folks who take it seriously, act as so.



No
 
Dubyadude1986

Dubyadude1986

Well-known member
Kitchy said:
Why should a skilled astrologer 'hold back' on what they see, understand and convey or advise? That just enforces a dummy-ing-down of Astrology, leaving it to the ones who don't have the knowledge, to answer.
Click to expand...

Thanks Kitchy. I appreciate this because that is so true. I definitely don't want what you described to happen.
 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
Dubyadude1986 said:
I saw someone born in 2001 asking for an astrological interpretation. I thought that it would be inappropriate to try to perform the interpretation, considering the circumstance.

Would some of you want people interpreting your children's charts on the internet? Why or why not? I would expect many no's, but you never know.
Click to expand...

We do see requests for newborn or very young children's chart readings. I will do these sometimes, but with a lot of care, because a negative astrologer could really wreck a little kid's childhood, if the parents took bad advice to heart. Ideally, you can suggest positive potentials in the child's life, and gently suggest how potential problems could be mitigated.

For example, if you see Mars at the tip of a Thor's Hammer formation in a little kid's chart, I would suggest that s/he will need a lot of exercise and opportunities to blow off steam, notably through outdoor play. I wouldn't say something like, "your son looks like a real hellion."

Every planetary placement has a potentially positive or negative expression.
 
Dubyadude1986

Dubyadude1986

Well-known member
waybread said:
We do see requests for newborn or very young children's chart readings. I will do these sometimes, but with a lot of care, because a negative astrologer could really wreck a little kid's childhood, if the parents took bad advice to heart. Ideally, you can suggest positive potentials in the child's life, and gently suggest how potential problems could be mitigated.

For example, if you see Mars at the tip of a Thor's Hammer formation in a little kid's chart, I would suggest that s/he will need a lot of exercise and opportunities to blow off steam, notably through outdoor play. I wouldn't say something like, "your son looks like a real hellion."

Every planetary placement has a potentially positive or negative expression.
Click to expand...

Excellent. I hope many people read this for many reasons. Thanks Waybread.
 
F

Frisiangal

Well-known member
Originally Posted by waybread
We do see requests for newborn or very young children's chart readings. I will do these sometimes, but with a lot of care, because a negative astrologer could really wreck a little kid's childhood, if the parents took bad advice to heart. Ideally, you can suggest positive potentials in the child's life, and gently suggest how potential problems could be mitigated.

For example, if you see Mars at the tip of a Thor's Hammer formation in a little kid's chart, I would suggest that s/he will need a lot of exercise and opportunities to blow off steam, notably through outdoor play. I wouldn't say something like, "your son looks like a real hellion."

Every planetary placement has a potentially positive or negative expression.

Dubyadude1986 said:
Excellent. I hope many people read this for many reasons. Thanks Waybread.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Dubyadude,
Waybread's commencing comment was the very essence of the original post on this thread. The ethics of doing so.
It was asked of me elsewhere 'to comment on the chart' of a 6 week old child. My 'concern' about the chart placements, given in my reply #10 to Therese, led me to turn down the request with the (lame?) excuse/reason that no astrologer is yet aware of how the outer planets NOW will affect a child in the future because none were around when they were last in the sign they are now in. It would be an assumptive prediction oracle.

You asked: Would some of you want people interpreting your children's charts on the internet? Why or why not?

This is yet another ethical issue towards astrological interpretation.
Is it ethical to offer interpretation of/to a 3rd party who may not even be aware they are the subject of such. The answer lies upon the conscience of the individual astrologer.
Is it different when a (concerned) parent asks for information on an astrological forum regarding the chart of their own child?
Personally I believe it is. I would not offer you any information if you asked me about your neighbour 's child without their knowledge, yet I would consider, even if I didn't respond to their request as parents.

:smile:
 
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waybread

waybread

Well-known member
Frisiangal, I am trying to think of why I even got into reading baby's charts. For sure if the request didn't come from the parent, I would carefully consider the source. Maybe it's because there are some truly horrible, insensitive readings out there-- although some are using non-astro methods of divination. I looked at one request recently because a fortune teller of some description predicted that the baby would not be able to have her own children. I consider this to be a terrible use of the oracle.

To me, children come from God, but I understand some basic horoscopic fertility indicators. I would never predict that a child would or would not be fertile, but I might say that I see no reason why she could not have children. Which is truthful.
 
F

Frisiangal

Well-known member
waybread said:
Frisiangal, I am trying to think of why I even got into reading baby's charts. For sure if the request didn't come from the parent, I would carefully consider the source. Maybe it's because there are some truly horrible, insensitive readings out there-- although some are using non-astro methods of divination. I looked at one request recently because a fortune teller of some description predicted that the baby would not be able to have her own children. I consider this to be a terrible use of the oracle.

To me, children come from God, but I understand some basic horoscopic fertility indicators. I would never predict that a child would or would not be fertile, but I might say that I see no reason why she could not have children. Which is truthful.
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No personal inference whatsoever towards you was implied in my last reply, Waybread. I've known you 'internetally' far too long to question your integrity.:smile:
The reference was to the original question only.
 
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