Origins of Hellenistic Astrology

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
JUPITERASCENDANT, I don't care how many languages Mr. K. reads. What he wrote (cited in your post) is simply (a) illogical, and (b) not based on current historical, archaeological, or ethnological evidence. I've cited above some good publications by scholars who also read cuniform, and they don't make this kind of wild, unsupportable assertion.
Until you have read all of the evidence, including that of Rumen Kolev http://www.babylonianastrology.com/ you have only a small piece of the puzzle :smile:
 

waybread

Well-known member
Mr. Kolev has only a small piece of the puzzle.... the other pieces are evidence from history/historical methods, archaeology, ethnology,.....

A lot of the evidence on Babylonian astrology is in scholarly journal articles, many of them cited in the sources I posted in my OP.
 

Kaiousei no Senshi

Premium Member
waybread said:
Definitions, anyone? When does a culture's indigenous form of astronomy or religious beliefs about the heavens turn into astrology?

Around the time they start using that astronomy or those religious beliefs to plan or foretell terrestrial events.

waybread said:
JA, you wrote: "the German Assyriologists had discovered that Astrology is the foundation of all religions and cultures of all times and all people and it all came from Mespotamia-Sumeria in around the era of Gemini: 5,000 - 6,000 BC."

If you unpack this statement, you will realize that it cannot be correct, although star-lore was important in most religions, so far as I am aware.

Interesting, that's what I understood that statement to be saying, though it does state it in an awkward, generic way. Astrological signification or astronomical observations have always been used - to varying degrees - as religious rites or concepts. Astrology as the basis of differing cultures might be a bit more difficult to swallow, though.
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
An (apparently Hellenist) astrology board has just been found in a cave sealed since around 100 BC, in central Europe (Croatia)today; it is the oldest such board known and is believed to date from apprximately 200 BC; it will be interesting to see what's on the board (it has ivory pieces with the signs of the zodiac engraved upon them) So here is a bit of evidence from early Hellenist times (some believe the board originated in Egypt)
 
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tsmall

Premium Member
An (apparently Hellenist) astrology board has just been found in a cave sealed since around 100 BC, in central Europe today; it is the oldest such board known and is believed to date from apprximately 200 BC; it will be interesting to see what's on the board (it has ivory pieces with the signs of the zodiac engraved upon them) So here is a bit of evidence from early Hellenist times (some believe the board originated in Egypt)

Do you have a link to the article?
 

waybread

Well-known member
An (apparently Hellenist) astrology board has just been found in a cave sealed since around 100 BC, in central Europe (Croatia)today; it is the oldest such board known and is believed to date from apprximately 200 BC; it will be interesting to see what's on the board (it has ivory pieces with the signs of the zodiac engraved upon them) So here is a bit of evidence from early Hellenist times (some believe the board originated in Egypt)

Fascinating! Moog, thanks for the link for it. Nicholas Campion refers to a similar find in his book The Dawn of Astrology. Darned if I can relocate it.

What fascinates me about this find is that it shows constellation pictures. Apparently our glyphs for signs were a later development. Manilius has a pretty detailed catalogue of how different stars in the constellations indicate different rising times. For a night birth, you could actually peg the ASC and planets on these constellation pictures.
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Relative to your last paragraph, that WAS the original purpose of macrocosmic analysis

and prediction (forgive me, that is how the hermeticists always refer to "astrology", and am I guilty of being one of them);


TIMING of events, actions, physical and spiritual, was (once) the all-important thing to know:


the most ancient Egyptian indications show this, and it is also clear


from astrological references in the Vedas and Puranas of India

(dating to as early as 2000/3000BC) , that this katarchic understanding held sway, possibly for millenia.

e180f48b7a20e983c486b408922f4b3f--african-culture-african-history.jpg
 
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petosiris

Banned

''No reliance whatever is to be placed in Chaldean astrologers when they profess to forecast a man's future from the position of the stars on the day of his birth.'' - http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Cicero/de_Divinatione/2*.html

See also waybread's and Levente's arguments in this thread.

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9194&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9194&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=45
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
''No reliance whatever is to be placed in Chaldean astrologers when they profess to forecast a man's future from the position of the stars on the day of his birth.'' - http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Cicero/de_Divinatione/2*.html

See also waybread's and Levente's arguments in this thread.

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9194&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9194&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=45
Robert Schmidt Discusses the Inventor of Western Astrology
http://members.planetwaves.net/rober...ern-astrology/

Schmidts opinion is interesting :smile:
http://www.projecthindsight.com/
 
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