He found me attractive before: if he pursued me first, what made him change his mind?

craft94 said:

Or maybe my low self-esteem turned him off? He originally thought I was attractive, but once he noticed how ugly I saw myself, he gradually began to agree with this view...?
He told me to be more confident, which is ironic, because he destroyed every bit of confidence I still had.
Or maybe I'm lying to myself. This is why I can't do my own horary charts!
I found it hard to believe he even found me attractive to begin with. But that might have been what drove him away...?

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I love horaries for this reason. Time and time again people ARE their charts, just like that saying that people are their pets. Anyway...

You're Moon in Virgo, and Venus in Gemini. You worry a lot, self-critical and on top of it you probably voiced this (this is more Gemini than Virgo as Virgo likes to be self-contained and private). He wasn't in it to handle that is all and it turned him off. Easy peasy. As a wise member here once told me, "It's not you, and its not them, its both."

You want a relationship since you're represented by Venus, but you need to definitely work on self-love (Moon in Virgo). Every time I've ever casted a horary chart because I was nervous, worrying and anxious Moon has ALWAYS been in Virgo. Wait until it moves into Libra, you'll feel a lot better about yourself.

Mars is RX right now in Scorpio, so a lot of people are finding the dominant one in the relationship is changing their minds or acting strange.

LovelyMissAries said:

I love horaries for this reason. Time and time again people ARE their charts, just like that saying that people are their pets. Anyway...

You're Moon in Virgo, and Venus in Gemini. You worry a lot, self-critical and on top of it you probably voiced this (this is more Gemini than Virgo as Virgo likes to be self-contained and private). He wasn't in it to handle that is all and it turned him off. Easy peasy. As a wise member here once told me, "It's not you, and its not them, its both."

You want a relationship since you're represented by Venus, but you need to definitely work on self-love (Moon in Virgo). Every time I've ever casted a horary chart because I was nervous, worrying and anxious Moon has ALWAYS been in Virgo. Wait until it moves into Libra, you'll feel a lot better about yourself.

Mars is RX right now in Scorpio, so a lot of people are finding the dominant one in the relationship is changing their minds or acting strange.

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Thanks! That sounds accurate.

Samantha Bean said:

However....

If you were to look at the synastry between you, it would be very easy to see where you had conflicts and even more specifically where your sexuality didn't turn on his sexuality.

But for this you would need an accurate birth chart for both you and him, and not one with a rounded birth time for either of you(that is not one where its exactly on the hour or half hour).

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Well, I've looked at our Synastry chart, but I'm the only one with a correct birth time. He might know his own birth time but I'm not just going to text him out of the blue and be like,"hey what time were you born?"

craft94 said:

"In that case"? In what case? The case of me being ugly? Me being a Libra? Something in the chart? I literally have no idea what you're talking about. What in the CHART leads you to that conclusion? Also, he WAS interested in me...that's not even up for debate. Why would he pursue me if he wasn't interested? He was more interested in me than I was him. Key word: "Was"

You didn't even answer my question. "Time to move on" is good advice but I'm not asking about whether or not he likes me. I want to know WHY he's lost interest in me. I'm over HIM, but I'm not over what he did to my self esteem; I'm afraid it will effect any relationships I may have with others in the future - but why am I even telling you this? It's not your business. Ideally, the chart would communicate this all on its own. I don't think I need to tell you every detail of my personality life to know what Mars in retrograde opposite Mercury means. I don't think you have to know my reasons for asking in order to give me an answer.

Also when I say "interested" I mean physically, nothing deeper than that, but that's beside the point. I don't want to know your opinions. I want to know what the chart says. This is an astrology forum. If you're not going to talk astrology, don't comment.

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You are WAAAAY to aggressive for no reason at all. Maybe it's the attitude he got tired of as you just jumped at Rafaellas face for something really insignificant she said and i'm sure she would have replied nicely had you kindly asked her to dwell on the chart instead. Based on your aggressiveness, you do seem to have self-esteem issues and that isn't the guy's fault I am sure. Take it easy please. Wishing you good luck with your situation with that guy. Oh and about your situation outside of astrology....we've all been through it, men do that, it's part of them, the less you pursue them or show interest, the more they will be running after you. The more you keep yourself scarce, the more they are after you, the minute you are too available to them, they lose their interest. This happens constantly, so to base your self-esteem on such a common behavior is unhealthy. Most of the time the issue isn't even you when they act distant, so It's just not right for you to assume that you are ugly because if he thought you were ugly, why would he be chasing you in the first place? Men are very primitive and it's only us, women who dwell on things and overthink, so assume that the issue is him for the way he behaved and not you.

kai said:

You are WAAAAY to aggressive for no reason at all. Maybe it's the attitude he got tired of as you just jumped at Rafaellas face for something really insignificant she said and i'm sure she would have replied nicely had you kindly asked her to dwell on the chart instead. Based on your aggressiveness, you do seem to have self-esteem issues and that isn't the guy's fault I am sure. Take it easy please. Wishing you good luck with your situation with that guy. Oh and about your situation outside of astrology....we've all been through it, men do that, it's part of them, the less you pursue them or show interest, the more they will be running after you. The more you keep yourself scarce, the more they are after you, the minute you are too available to them, they lose their interest. This happens constantly, so to base your self-esteem on such a common behavior is unhealthy. Most of the time the issue isn't even you when they act distant, so It's just not right for you to assume that you are ugly because if he thought you were ugly, why would he be chasing you in the first place? Men are very primitive and it's only us, women who dwell on things and overthink, so assume that the issue is him for the way he behaved and not you.

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I was going to say exactly this. But I felt it would be harsh. And not heard. What is the point in saying words when they are ignored?

I saw her significator in his third house combust. I figured it was something she said that turned him off.

duenderoja said:

I was going to say exactly this. But I felt it would be harsh. And not heard. What is the point in saying words when they are ignored?

I saw her significator in his third house combust. I figured it was something she said that turned him off.

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I think you are onto something... because you see Saturn is at radical 3rd. Mars and Mercury (which generally rules communication and is his 3rd ruler) opposed. So either something he heard or some harsh exchange of words perhaps got him to change his mind as Mars (him) goes back into Scorpio where it dislikes Venus (her). There was lack of reception to begin with, but something triggered strong dislike.

craft94 said:

Or maybe my low self-esteem turned him off? He originally thought I was attractive, but once he noticed how ugly I saw myself, he gradually began to agree with this view...?
He told me to be more confident, which is ironic, because he destroyed every bit of confidence I still had.
Or maybe I'm lying to myself. This is why I can't do my own horary charts!
I found it hard to believe he even found me attractive to begin with. But that might have been what drove him away...?

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The fact that he told her to be more confident shows that this was the basis of his departure. I know that when I am talking to someone who lacks confidence, if they refuse to listen to my assurances – I get annoyed and leave them.

It may help to look at your problem objectively.

craft94 said:

Also, he WAS interested in me...that's not even up for debate. Why would he pursue me if he wasn't interested? He was more interested in me than I was him. Key word: "Was"

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Have you ever liked intensely a particular drink/food/dress/jeans/car/song/perfume for a few weeks and then gone off it for no discernible reason? Your interest just kind of faded into the background? It is not the fault of the drink/food/dress/song/perfume/etc., they remain the same and unchanged, it's just that the weather changes or your needs change for something different, not necessarily better. Not every meeting is destined for 'till death do us part.' Some interactions are enduring. Some are professional. Some are meant to be brief. Sometimes the universe allows things to happen in order to help us develop a thicker skin. It is not limited to you. It is a process of maturity which happens to us all.

craft94 said:

I'm not over what he did to my self esteem; I'm afraid it will effect any relationships I may have with others in the future

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First, if you are unhappy with your self-esteem, consider losing the self and you will be left with esteem. Being self-obsessed is not conducive to any healthy relationship, including the one you have with your self. Second, how you feel is your responsibility, not someone else's. Holding others responsible for how you feel is called co-dependency, which is not conducive to healthy or long-term relationships, either. This is not said to condemn you. It is said to flag the problem you wish to understand so that you are better placed to get it under control. There are never any guarantees in romance, so, it is advisable you do not prioritize romance for the time being or at least until you have mastered self-control.

Please do not mistake my directness for an insult which is not how my words are intended. Regardless of what your past is, your life has a purpose to fulfill. Lose the self. Love more. It's the most beautiful quality to anyone who knows anything about quality. I wish you all the best. x x x

Thank you , I am not insulted. I appreciate it, but I can't say I agree with all of it. I don't think anyone is necessarily "responsible" for anyone's feelings. Sometimes, people are going to be hurt/angry no matter what you do. It's more a reflection of their own experiences than it is yours. I understand that people's lives aren't revolved around pleasing me. But I also think that actions have weight. In general, I think people should put more thought into how their actions effect others and maybe that is a responsibility. To an extent. Like, I don't think people should be walking on eggshells trying to make everybody happy, but if you're doing something that you know is going to hurt someone, maybe you shouldn't do it! I understand that it's meant to be empowering but to say we don't have any effect on the emotions of others or that our emotions aren't affected by others is ridiculous (and I don't think is what you are meaning to say). We don't live in a bubble. I think I have every right to be hurt in this situation. It's fairly normal. As has been said, these things happen to (almost?) everyone at some point in their lives, but that knowledge doesn't make the situation any easier to deal with. Co-dependency is a different thing. That being said, I'm not insulted: I didn't give any details on the situation, and I understand how you could get that impression from what was said.

Are people responsible for their own feelings? I'm not sure if I agree with this either. It kind of implies that depression (or anxiety) is a choice and if that were the case, it wouldn't be so widespread. If it were that easy, I think most people would choose to be happy. Maybe it's easy for some people, but that doesn't give those people (not you) a right to feel superior. They don't understand what it's like to be someone else. There are people who choose to dwell in the negative and refuse to make any effort, but I'm not one of those people. I try to think positively. I meditate, I've tried yoga, I take meds, I write, I paint, I try to spend a lot of time outside, I try to surround myself with bright colors and I can't even listen to depressing music anymore, I do everything I can but none of it is enough. No matter how many times I try telling myself, "you're beautiful, don't listen to them, etc. etc." even when I know it's true, I can't shake the feeling that I'm lying to myself, that there must be something wrong with me. Whenever a thought like that enters my head, I put a stop to it, but while the thought might be gone, the feeling remains. It's an energy thing. Regardless of what I think or try thinking or no matter how many positive influences I try to surround myself, there's still this lack energy and terrible sickness in my gut. Self-love is easier said than done.

kai said:

You are WAAAAY to aggressive for no reason at all. Maybe it's the attitude he got tired of as you just jumped at Rafaellas face for something really insignificant she said and i'm sure she would have replied nicely had you kindly asked her to dwell on the chart instead. Based on your aggressiveness, you do seem to have self-esteem issues and that isn't the guy's fault I am sure. Take it easy please.

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OK, the second part of your comment makes sense but this I do take offense to. Where in the chart does it say I have an aggressive attitude? He's Mars. I'm Venus. If anything, he thought I was too passive.

Obviously, I had a reason to be annoyed (whether or not you felt the reason was justified is a different thing): It felt like Rafaella was being aggressive with me. Whether or not she meant to be is beside the point. I don't mean to be either, but that obviously doesn't change anything, does it? You can't post something hurtful (and I think it's pretty obvious that this was a sensitive issue) with such surety(and no astrological evidence to back it up) and expect me not to have a reaction. If someone insults me, I'm going to defend myself. Would you rather I just said, "yeah you're right, i suck, he must have only wanted me out of pity"? No. Just, no. I do not believe that to be the case. My self-esteem isn't that low yet Rafaella is so confident in what she says, it almost makes me wonder if she knows the guy personally

I'm really not in the mood to argue with strangers on the internet. I really wish there was a block feature on this thing. It's nothing personal but I want to keep checking this thread for actual responses to my question without having to see things that I know are just going to make me upset.

I have found in horary, moon oppositions yield rejections.

craft94 said:

It felt like Rafaella was being aggressive with me. Whether or not she meant to be is beside the point. I don't mean to be either, but that obviously doesn't change anything, does it? You can't post something hurtful (and I think it's pretty obvious that this was a sensitive issue) with such surety(and no astrological evidence to back it up) and expect me not to have a reaction. If someone insults me, I'm going to defend myself. Would you rather I just said, "yeah you're right, i suck, he must have only wanted me out of pity"? No. Just, no. I do not believe that to be the case. My self-esteem isn't that low yet Rafaella is so confident in what she says, it almost makes me wonder if she knows the guy personally

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She is confident on what she says, because she is a good astrologer. And I think that you should appreciate that she did take time to read your chart (for free).

craft94 said:

I try to think positively. I meditate, I've tried yoga, I take meds, I write, I paint, I try to spend a lot of time outside, I try to surround myself with bright colors and I can't even listen to depressing music anymore, I do everything I can but none of it is enough. No matter how many times I try telling myself, "you're beautiful, don't listen to them, etc. etc." even when I know it's true, I can't shake the feeling that I'm lying to myself, that there must be something wrong with me. Whenever a thought like that enters my head, I put a stop to it, but while the thought might be gone, the feeling remains. It's an energy thing. Regardless of what I think or try thinking or no matter how many positive influences I try to surround myself, there's still this lack energy and terrible sickness in my gut. Self-love is easier said than done.

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Why do you find yourself to be "ugly"? Pardon me, but in the 21st century there is no longer a reason to feel "ugly" anymore.

In the most extreme cases, there is always plastic surgery. For more "normal" situations a new haircut helps, and a 6 month diet/workout plan to loose weight. Now days, anything we dislike about ourselves can be easily changed. Only thing that would be harder (but not imposible) to reverse, would be some sort of scarring because of an accident or deformity....but unless its one of those unfortunate and extreme cases, anything can be fixed.

craft94 said:

I'm really not in the mood to argue with strangers on the internet. I really wish there was a block feature on this thing. It's nothing personal but I want to keep checking this thread for actual responses to my question without having to see things that I know are just going to make me upset.

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There is an ignore feature here. I suggest you use it if someone upsets you that much.

Here's the deal: A lot, a LOT of people here feel that the astrologers here owe them a free reading service. Even if they're obviously trolling. Not saying you are, but it certainly happens. It's happened to me. It makes me disinclined to read charts here. It makes all of us disinclined to read charts when we're attacked for doing it, not doing it, not doing it in a particular way, etc., when we feel taken advantage of.

You claim you're unable to read a chart for yourself, but I don't think that's entirely true. Even a 'this is the rising sign, this is the house my planet is in, this is where the moon is' counts, and astrologers appreciate it because this is a learning forum. Having someone demand a chart reading - again, it's off-putting, and the more it happens, the less inclined people are to read. If the querent puts at least a bit of effort in it, astrologers are more inclined to help.

Not meaning to offend, but if you do want a chart reading service that you needn't participate in, pay a real astrologer to read for you.

Dirius said:

She is confident on what she says, because she is a good astrologer. And I think that you should appreciate that she did take time to read your chart (for free).

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Well, how am I supposed to know she's a good astrologer if she doesnt even mention astrology? She did give me a free reading but that was only after I acted "way too aggressive"
And I do believe she's wrong. Even though there's a part of my brain that wants to say she's right. I don't believe any astrologer, no matter how skilled, is all knowing. The question wasn't about whether or not he ever found me attractive because I already know the answers 'yes'. The question was "what made him change his mind?"

Oddity said:

You claim you're unable to read a chart for yourself, but I don't think that's entirely true. Even a 'this is the rising sign, this is the house my planet is in, this is where the moon is' counts, and astrologers appreciate it because this is a learning forum. Having someone demand a chart reading - again, it's off-putting, and the more it happens, the less inclined people are to read. If the querent puts at least a bit of effort in it, astrologers are more inclined to help.

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I'm not "demanding" anything. I was looking for an answer but if you don't want to give me a chart reading, you're free to not comment at all.
See, if I were to read this chart for myself, I would interpret it in a VERY different way, and I'd doubt it's accuracy because I know I'm either telling myself what I want to hear or assuming the worst. With this particular chart, I told myself more of what I wanted to hear. It's easier to read for a stranger. Emotions do obscure things.
Like, i could interpret this chart myself but I wouldn't get an answer

craft94 said:

Well, how am I supposed to know she's a good astrologer if she doesnt even mention astrology? She did give me a free reading but that was only after I acted "way too aggressive"
And I do believe she's wrong. Even though there's a part of my brain that wants to say she's right. I don't believe any astrologer, no matter how skilled, is all knowing. The question wasn't about whether or not he ever found me attractive because I already know the answers 'yes'. The question was "what made him change his mind?"

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Astrologers can only read a chart in the sense of what the houses/planets/aspects usually represents. Given that you've shared no information about the circumstances it is rather hard to put together the context of the chart.

Rafaella's original "short" response was due to this. It is imposible to make sense of a situation in which the querent hasn't shared anything. So she gave the short answer.

I'll explain with an example: his planet is inside the 2nd house, so what does the 2nd house represent for this particular situation? we don't know, given that you've kept that to yourself, we can't put context on to what the house mayu represent for this situation (houses have multiple meanings).

We can only tell you whats obvious on the chart: he does not like you. I do agree with rafaella's delineation and thats the best you will get as long as you wish to keep the info for yourself. I respect your choice to do it, it is your privte life after all, but we can't tell you much if you choose not to share.

craft94 said:

Thank you , I am not insulted. I appreciate it, but I can't say I agree with all of it. I don't think anyone is necessarily "responsible" for anyone's feelings. Sometimes, people are going to be hurt/angry no matter what you do. It's more a reflection of their own experiences than it is yours. I understand that people's lives aren't revolved around pleasing me. But I also think that actions have weight. In general, I think people should put more thought into how their actions effect others and maybe that is a responsibility. To an extent. Like, I don't think people should be walking on eggshells trying to make everybody happy, but if you're doing something that you know is going to hurt someone, maybe you shouldn't do it! I understand that it's meant to be empowering but to say we don't have any effect on the emotions of others or that our emotions aren't affected by others is ridiculous (and I don't think is what you are meaning to say). We don't live in a bubble. I think I have every right to be hurt in this situation. It's fairly normal. As has been said, these things happen to (almost?) everyone at some point in their lives, but that knowledge doesn't make the situation any easier to deal with. Co-dependency is a different thing. That being said, I'm not insulted: I didn't give any details on the situation, and I understand how you could get that impression from what was said.

Are people responsible for their own feelings? I'm not sure if I agree with this either. It kind of implies that depression (or anxiety) is a choice and if that were the case, it wouldn't be so widespread. If it were that easy, I think most people would choose to be happy. Maybe it's easy for some people, but that doesn't give those people (not you) a right to feel superior. They don't understand what it's like to be someone else. There are people who choose to dwell in the negative and refuse to make any effort, but I'm not one of those people. I try to think positively. I meditate, I've tried yoga, I take meds, I write, I paint, I try to spend a lot of time outside, I try to surround myself with bright colors and I can't even listen to depressing music anymore, I do everything I can but none of it is enough. No matter how many times I try telling myself, "you're beautiful, don't listen to them, etc. etc." even when I know it's true, I can't shake the feeling that I'm lying to myself, that there must be something wrong with me. Whenever a thought like that enters my head, I put a stop to it, but while the thought might be gone, the feeling remains. It's an energy thing. Regardless of what I think or try thinking or no matter how many positive influences I try to surround myself, there's still this lack energy and terrible sickness in my gut. Self-love is easier said than done.

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Justifying what you already believe has never been and will never be any part of a legitimate search for truth. When you seek what you already believe you can only find what you already believe. Seek to prove your self wrong and you can usually learn something. Seeking self-love is your main problem because there is nothing to love about your self. The self or the ego is pure selfishness. It is the ego-centric "How does this benefit me?" perspective by which an infant relates to the world. It makes you self-obsessed, self-depressed and self-anxious and these states of mind make you want to self-control how everyone else behaves in order to protect your self. It is a treacherous feedback loop until you cut it and tell your self to take several seats. Notice your complaint, how considerately you want others to treat you and then notice how inconsiderate you are to others. Your egocentric double-mindedness is what makes you unstable. You want to get what you want and none of what you don't want, and you don't care what anyone else gets. In other words, you do not want to end suffering. You want to end suffering for your self only. Demanding subjectivity to be as good as reality is a crime as old as humanity. Your foundation is wrong and your mental life will crumble each time until you get it right. Consider keeping your self under control rather than allow it to control you and you'll be pretty as a peach, inside and out.

As to depression and anxiety, they are neurotic diseases of the mind which have a purpose to alert the soul where and how it needs to grow. Being neurotic diseases, depression and anxiety are on the very opposite end of the scale from psychosis. Psychosis means to be detached from reality. Depression and anxiety result from being too attached to reality that reality is disabling. People tend to cling to comfortable weights that drown them. Depression and anxiety are a mechanism of self (see above) protection which is the wrong path. The self needs to be confronted, the demons faced. Depression and anxiety are not illnesses of the brain. This is why medication does not cure. Medication masks the symptoms which is to make the person feel better about being broken. If we are broken, we should want to feel broken, so that we can know what needs to be fixed. Depression and anxiety feel uncomfortable which is why the self (i.e., infant egocentrism) is desperate to get rid of them quickly. They are not easy to shake but they are impossible to shake unless the patient takes full responsibility for their thoughts and in the correct way. That is why Cognitive Behaviour Therapy (CBT) is the number one choice for combating these ailments, because it teaches the patient to take full responsibility for their mental state and to correct with reality the patients' erroneous cognition. Depression and anxiety stem from the emotion centre of the brain, the amygdala, which has monosynaptic projections to the cortex. Monosynaptic means they effect the cortex, not vice versa, which means the cortex cannot inhibit depression and anxiety. However, intelligence and therefore intellectual growth (i.e., CBT) is modulated by the cortex. This means, whilst the cortex cannot inhibit depression and anxiety, it can override them by intention. This effortful and consistent feedback to the amygdala results in neuronal representation within it which targets the cause and ends, rather than masks, the problem.

Painting, music, medication, kicking-off, etc. are masks. They may make you feel better but they are not necessary for your recovery. What you need to do is some hard work in confronting the self each and every single time it tries to control you. It's probably hard for you to trust me on that, particularly since you have the amygdala sending you emotional signals which you find hard to ignore. But by confronting what holds you back, you can learn to ignore some of it because some of it is not always rational. You've tried it your way and it's not getting you far. If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got. I know you'd rather hand your responsibility for your wellbeing over to little Johnny, rafaella, your doctor, etc. because then you never need to blame your self. To save you time and energy, however, you are barking up the wrong tree. These people are neither responsible for what is within you nor can they heal you. They also have a right to make decisions indepenently of your agreement and often they will not be in your best interest. You are not the centre of anyone's universe nor will you ever be. It is a fact of life. Only you can make decisions that are in your best interest. Only you can cut off those weights that drown you. You can overcome so much more if only you give your self the chance. All the very best x x x

okay

There is no reception between L1 and L7.. L1 is combusted
it is in gemini - not exactly lovely dovey sign.

there is no attraction whatesoever

Saturn changed his mind. And Saturn will change it back. But if you don't really want him in your life, it doesn't really matter. [IMO]

Dirius said:

Astrologers can only read a chart in the sense of what the houses/planets/aspects usually represents. Given that you've shared no information about the circumstances it is rather hard to put together the context of the chart.

Rafaella's original "short" response was due to this. It is imposible to make sense of a situation in which the querent hasn't shared anything. So she gave the short answer.

I'll explain with an example: his planet is inside the 2nd house, so what does the 2nd house represent for this particular situation? we don't know, given that you've kept that to yourself, we can't put context on to what the house mayu represent for this situation (houses have multiple meanings).

We can only tell you whats obvious on the chart: he does not like you. I do agree with rafaella's delineation and thats the best you will get as long as you wish to keep the info for yourself. I respect your choice to do it, it is your privte life after all, but we can't tell you much if you choose not to share.

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So you agree that he never liked me to begin with? If he wasn't attracted to me, why would he chase after me? I don't believe people chase people out of pity. It is clear he doesn't want me anymore, but I already knew that, that wasn't my question.