Ancient Capricorn was a water sign

Whoam1

Whoam1

Well-known member
david starling said:
Now THIS is a worthwhile, purely Sidereal contribution. Very cool. Here's a question: Is what a Tropicalist thinks of as Capricornian qualities the same as a Western Siderealist describes them?
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Capricorn:Survival and autonomy needs foremost. Sociable; not self-disclosing (cold/aloof). Humor, storyteller, prankish, music. Good resource manager. Struggles against tough odds. Discontent, combative, resists persuasion and conformity. Values past; defies status quo. Emotions cautious initially. Extreme libido."

Mysterious, moody/ vulnerable to dark moods, could be called edgy (attraction to the occult), may vice (use drugs and alcohol to de-stress). Emotions cautious to protect its hyper emotional state (that is often hidden). Give everything to the small amount of people they truly let past their walls. Misuderstood as unemotional, in actuality is guarded emotional.

Spiritual lesson is "to come to the water" to let go of material things, realising that they do not form happiness, but rather healthy relationships form happiness (including self relationships). May have to face their emotional depths to get here.


The first paragraph is western sidereal Capt Sun, they also put emphasis on Mars and Moon sign (Ego,Emotional [mask],and action). Second two are my notes, because my Mars is exalted in Capricorn i can make an argument it is my sign In sidereal astrology and in tropical it is my sign undoubtedly.
 
Abby83

Abby83

Well-known member
Whoam1 said:
Many of you know that I've learned to appreciate this sign, weither it is my Sun and rising sign as tropical astrology would dictate, or as a dominant sign containing Mars, Uranus, Neptune, and the southern Node of the Moon as my sidreal chart would speak.

I'd like to just respect the roots of this sign and modernize it to today. Capricorn in the classical days of astrology was said to be the harbinger of storms and therefore the ruler of the Sea. It's mood, even in modern astrology, is said to shift dramatically much like it's glyph and the current if the Sea.

In Vedic astrology this sign is more often shown as a hybrid alligator or Crocodile rather than the goat it is shown by in modern astrology today. It is called Makara, meaning crocodile, an animal comfortable on land or in sea. The sign was said to be on the spiritual journey of going from materialism to finding the true value in its own subconscious depths.

It is also compared to the Summarian God Enki, part man part goat, later known as Ea. Who is God of Wisdom, Magic, and Water. However water also entailed semen, making Capricorn under Ea a highly sexualized sign.

This leads into the more modern mythology of Pan, who turned into a fish trying to escape an adversary, but failed to transform in complete, making the goat headed fish we view Capricorn as today. He also is highly sexed much like Ea, look at the word horny today for an even more modern example.

I think it's quiet sad we often "chop off Capricorns tail" to make him fit into our evenly distributed elemental zodiac charts today. One could argue Capricorns don't get emotional enough to be a water sign, however people like MLK are surely emotional heavy beings. This on top of the Stormy temper that Capricorns display, I'm not convinced that Capricorn is as earthy as we try to say in Modern astrology today.
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I disagree Capricorn is a water sign. I just think you have a watery Capricorn cos of Neptune in cap in your first house and your ascendant ruler in your 4th.
 
Whoam1

Whoam1

Well-known member
Abby83 said:
I disagree Capricorn is a water sign. I just think you have a watery Capricorn cos of Neptune in cap in your first house and your ascendant ruler in your 4th.
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It was a water and earth sign sense probably the turn of the century.
 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
Whoam1, You recall Alice in Through the Looking Glass?

“When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’

’The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’

’The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.”

Of course, we know what happened to the big egg (ego.)

Astrology does grow and develop. It did anciently, medievaly, and modernly. But there is a way that astrology throughout the ages has been put together, so it's best if we study it in some depth before trying to change it. (And I'm not saying you haven't done that.)

earth: practical, material
air: mental
fire: enthusiastic, action-oriented
water: emotional, sometimes spiritual.

cardinal: initiating
fixed: well, actually, fixed
mutable: adaptive

Capricorn has many notable qualities as the cardinal earth sign. I do modern astrology, but in a more classical way, and I have studied traditional western astrology up to a certain point. If we erase all of the pop-schlock stuff said about Capricorn (and about the other signs, as well,) we end up with something more pure and unique.

For some reason, I love reading books by female mountaineers, world-class sailors, and other types of risk-taking outdoorswomen. Gender aside (because I also love the books by Maurice Herzog, Jon Krakauer, and Thor Heyerdahl,) the extreme rock-climbers and small craft ocean navigators are what I see in Capricorn at its best. Initiating. Mars exalted. Practical (or they wouldn't survive half way up a multi-day extreme climb, or major storm at sea.) Saturnian self-discipline and deferred gratification. (Nobody makes it halfway up a "big wall" without serious self-discipline and the ability to cope with serious physical discomfort.)

The businessman stereotype doesn't work for me at all, and I think it's due to an unfortunate and misplaced conflation of Saturn (the old boss,) Capricorn, and the 10th house. The 10th modernly shows one's career, but in Hellenistic astrology it was more like one's public image. The 10th has to do with one's vocation or calling in life, not particularly or necessarily a big business orientation.

I think sometimes people get turned off by modern astrology's ideosyncracies and excesses, and rightly so; but if you take a more classical approach to it, you may not see the need to turn Capricorn into something else due to unhappiness with unfortunate and wrong-headed stereotypes.

Again, I hope you will read Steven Forrest, The Inner Sky. I think it's available electronically and is in print, probably at your nearest New Age bookstore. He's a sun Capricorn who has, later in life, taken a strong left-turn into evolutionary astrology; but The Inner Sky is just a terrific book for seeing astrology as a dynamic system. Astrology is not about a bunch of static character traits.

Are you a noun or a verb?
 
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JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
petosiris said:


1. They had the good reason to use both sidereal and seasonal reasonings in their astrology. However, the sidereal ground is more stable, coherent and should be the basis of the zodiac. If the ancients around Ptolemy actually were doing tropical astrology, today no one is doing tropical astrology, because no tropical astrologer today takes account of the weather. As I said it is very incoherent.
2. They do not have remotely similar weather to Greece and Egypt, for which Ptolemy was writing in the Tetrabiblos. That is what I was referring to as ''powers.''
3. That is modern and only based because tropical astrologers have discovered that their signs have no power and rationale anymore. I make no difference between the stars of the twelve images and the stars of the seven spheres.
4. I do not have to explain anything. I just doubted the conceptual arguments put forward.
5. The solstices and equinoxes are also the most contrary points in tropical perspective. That is they are the most different. By not reversing the zodiac, you do not account for one pretty important astronomical and in my opinion logical astrological observation related to daylight and weather.

Heliacal risings and settings also do not work very well in the arctic. We need different astrology for those regions and especially for space exploration.
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Then also
Modernist Western Tropical Astrologers use precessed charts
Solar Fire has an option for "precession corrected Western Tropical Astrology charts"
simply use Sidereal

david starling said:
Or, simply use Vedic instead of Western Siderealism. It has a more coherent lineage.
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precessing Western Tropical Astrology charts as many do is simply incoherent :smile:
 
Whoam1

Whoam1

Well-known member
waybread said:
Whoam1, You recall Alice in Through the Looking Glass?

“When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’

’The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’

’The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.”

Of course, we know what happened to the big egg (ego.)

Astrology does grow and develop. It did anciently, medievaly, and modernly. But there is a way that astrology throughout the ages has been put together, so it's best if we study it in some depth before trying to change it. (And I'm not saying you haven't done that.)

earth: practical, material
air: mental
fire: enthusiastic, action-oriented
water: emotional, sometimes spiritual.

cardinal: initiating
fixed: well, actually, fixed
mutable: adaptive

Capricorn has many notable qualities as the cardinal earth sign. I do modern astrology, but in a more classical way, and I have studied traditional western astrology up to a certain point. If we erase all of the pop-schlock stuff said about Capricorn (and about the other signs, as well,) we end up with something more pure and unique.

For some reason, I love reading books by female mountaineers, world-class sailors, and other types of risk-taking outdoorswomen. Gender aside (because I also love the books by Maurice Herzog, Jon Krakauer, and Thor Heyerdahl,) the extreme rock-climbers and small craft ocean navigators are what I see in Capricorn at its best. Initiating. Mars exalted. Practical (or they wouldn't survive half way up a multi-day extreme climb, or major storm at sea.) Saturnian self-discipline and deferred gratification. (Nobody makes it halfway up a "big wall" without serious self-discipline and the ability to cope with serious physical discomfort.)

The businessman stereotype doesn't work for me at all, and I think it's due to an unfortunate and misplaced conflation of Saturn (the old boss,) Capricorn, and the 10th house. The 10th modernly shows one's career, but in Hellenistic astrology it was more like one's public image. The 10th has to do with one's vocation or calling in life, not particularly or necessarily a big business orientation.

I think sometimes people get turned off by modern astrology's ideosyncracies and excesses, and rightly so; but if you take a more classical approach to it, you may not see the need to turn Capricorn into something else due to unhappiness with unfortunate and wrong-headed stereotypes.

Again, I hope you will read Steven Forrest, The Inner Sky. I think it's available electronically and is in print, probably at your nearest New Age bookstore. He's a sun Capricorn who has, later in life, taken a strong left-turn into evolutionary astrology; but The Inner Sky is just a terrific book for seeing astrology as a dynamic system. Astrology is not about a bunch of static character traits.

Are you a noun or a verb?
Click to expand...

You put too much value on this element system. Look at the planets Mars-water
Saturn-earth, Capricorn is Mars and Saturn Water-Earth.

If that isn't good enough Vedic astrology views Capricorn as an alligator(water and earth), Sidreal uses the Sea-goat, Greeks used pan but also described Capricorn as the sign of "death at sea", the astronomer Ptolemy saw Capricorn as a moist sign, the Summarian and Mesopotamian cultures saw Capricorn as the God of water.

I don't always go for the status quo, however they all disseminate the watery nature of the sign if not in full at least in partial. My unaspected Neptune in first house Capricorn may be bringing out the nature of Capricorns more stormy side but from my stand point it looks as if your purely in denial, using a rigid system. I think it would be good for you to read what I said about the spiritual nature if Capricorn.
 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
Whoam1 said:
You put too much value on this element system. Look at the planets Mars-water
Saturn-earth, Capricorn is Mars and Saturn Water-Earth.

If that isn't good enough Vedic astrology views Capricorn as an alligator(water and earth), Sidreal uses the Sea-goat, Greeks used pan but also described Capricorn as the sign of "death at sea", the astronomer Ptolemy saw Capricorn as a moist sign, the Summarian and Mesopotamian cultures saw Capricorn as the God of water.

I don't always go for the status quo, however they all disseminate the watery nature of the sign if not in full at least in partial. My unaspected Neptune in first house Capricorn may be bringing out the nature of Capricorns more stormy side but from my stand point it looks as if your purely in denial, using a rigid system. I think it would be good for you to read what I said about the spiritual nature if Capricorn.
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This isn't "just me," Whoam1. Don't personalize this.

As you know I do a kind of conservative version of modern astrology, but if you want to get traditional about it, planets in and of themselves are not specifically related to signs except insofar as they've got essential dignities in them.

Planets may be described in terms of the Aristotelian humours: hot, cold, wet, dry. So we might associate the cool moist moon with the water sign Cancer, but then it exalts in the earth sign Taurus. Hot, dry Mars rules both the feminine water sign of Scorpio and the masculine fire sign of Aries.

Applying the supposed qualities of the constellations to mathematically-derived 30-degree segments of the heavens bears a little unpacking. Aquarius is the "water bearer" but it's an air sign. Scorpions anciently were known as venomous desert arthropods, but they are a water sign.

Insofar as Vedic astrology goes, no alligators in the following:

http://astrosamadhan.blogspot.ca/p/blog-page_23.html

http://astrosamadhan.blogspot.ca/p/blog-page_23.html

http://www.sacred-texts.com/astro/hba/hba04.htm

https://www.pavitrajyotish.com/capricorn/

All of these sites show a sea-goat and define Capricorn as an earth sign.

Why is it so important for you to define Capricorn as a water sign, in the first place? This is personal for you, isn't it? Do you somehow see water as superior to earth? And, if so, for what reason?
 
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petosiris

Banned
In the Hellenistic tradition, the Crab and the Goat-Horned One are watery and amphibian, because the images appear to possess the ability to live above water. The Water-Pourer is anthropomorphic and very watery. The Fishes are very watery and are not amphibian, they are fishes.

And by amphibian they meant that it is both watery and earthy. Scorpio, for example, is wholly terrestrial.

I think only a minority Hellenistic astrologers applied the four elements to the triplicities/winds. I think they disagreed with that because of the apparent imagery.

Scorpio to some extent may signify cohesion. Sagittarius to some extent may signify heat. Capricorn to some extent may signify solidity. Aquarius to some extent may signify movement. But to apply the four classical elements without their abstraction confuses the imagery.
 
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CapAquaPis

CapAquaPis

Well-known member
I came to believe Capricorn and Aquarius are wet signs, if not water signs, the representatives of winter (the rainy season) in Mesopotamia. Capricorn is the sea-goat and Aquarius is the water carrier, both are thought to relate to the rainy season. Both are ruled by the planet Saturn (and Uranus), I suppose the two planets are thought to have a meteorological connection in astrology.
 
Whoam1

Whoam1

Well-known member
CapAquaPis said:
I came to believe Capricorn and Aquarius are wet signs, if not water signs, the representatives of winter (the rainy season) in Mesopotamia. Capricorn is the sea-goat and Aquarius is the water carrier, both are thought to relate to the rainy season. Both are ruled by the planet Saturn (and Uranus), I suppose the two planets are thought to have a meteorological connection in astrology.
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As the same realization for me. Aquarius the moisture in the air if you will, Capricorn as David says, the oceans of the earth.
 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
I think it's important not to confuse the imaginary visual imagery of constellations with the Aristotelian qualities: hot, cold, wet, dry.

Please note that the western constellations are not objectively real. If you doubt me, look and see, cross-culturally, how non-western cultures across time and space have construed the heavens. Or just look at the stars that make up the constellation Capricorn, and explain how you construe a sea-goat from them. Sometimes the myths didn't relate to the visual form of the constellation, but to local events that coincided with the sun in that constellation. A good example is Aries.

If you want to say that Capricorn or Aquarius is watery, what does this mean to you? How would it affect your horoscope reading?

Anciently these constellations were part of a region of the sky called "the sea," perhaps in part because the sun was in some of these constellations during the Mediterranean winter rainy season.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_(astronomy)

But do you mean by saying that Cap and Aqua are watery, that their primary way of relating to life is through their emotions, feelings, and perhaps spirituality? Well, if this works for you, in your hundreds of chart readings for people, fine. If this is just your theoretical belief based upon a connect-the-dots view of constellations, with minimal relationship to an astrological practice, then isn't it just idiosyncratic?

As an air sign, Aquarius symbolically relates to rain, vs. to surface water. But if you know sun-Aquarians or people with an Aquarian emphasis in their charts, I don't think you will find them to be highly emotional, unless they also have strong water in their charts, such as a moon in Cancer, or a stellium in Pisces.

Whoam1, just another point. One thing you'll notice reading Hellenistic astrology is a lot of areas of either disagreement, or points that we don't take today. Some astrologers believed that constellations had tutelary deities that were not linked to actual planets. The goddess Ceres (Demeter) was linked to Virgo, for example; and Athena to a portion of Aries. Then Pan was not a water god, so I don't see how he helps your case.

Are you familiar with this site: www.theoi.com ? Just highly recommended for anyone wishing to explore Greek mythology.

On Pan: http://www.theoi.com/Georgikos/Pan.html

Pan was anciently depicted as a man with goat legs, horns, and a randy proclivity for chasing nymphs. (Prior to #Metoo) Possibly here is the link to the sea-goat Capricorn, but it's hard to see what you'd do with Pan in a horoscope reading.
 
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petosiris

Banned
waybread said:
Pan was anciently depicted as a man with goat legs, horns, and a randy proclivity for chasing nymphs. (Prior to #Metoo) Possibly here is the link to the sea-goat Capricorn, but it's hard to see what you'd do with Pan in a horoscope reading.
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The Anonymous of 379 text which focuses on fixed stars at angles claims the following:

In particular, if some signs and unwandering stars are in the degree of the place of gods or in the degree of the subterranean angle as well as when they rise at the horoscope, they render great assistance and help to a person who is born owing to a divine apparition or by means of dreams...
When the stars set in the horns of Capricorn, the Kids and the Goat, are in the above-mentioned places, they bring support or the apparitions of Pan or of Mercury, especially when a benefic planet watches the places we have mentioned. - http://www.cieloeterra.it/eng/eng.testi.379/eng.379.html
* the text says Hermes, not Mercury, and most likely meant the Greek god not the Roman one.

Obviously they are related to actual constellations.

If you want to say that Capricorn or Aquarius is watery, what does this mean to you? How would it affect your horoscope reading?
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Surprise, it does not mean spirituality or intuition. Water means water. Your property may be near water, your disease might be moist, your personality might be moist or your death might be by water.

I was just looking at a chart today where the person recounted an actual accident in childhood surrounding water that brings suffering to him and he has the Moon in Cancer in the 12th squared by the two malefics from Aries (Mars within minutes). There is nothing such in his tropical chart to account for this accident, there is no placement in a watery sign aside from Jupiter and Venus in the 7th - Pisces.
Sidereally, Venus in its bound in Pisces trines the Moon.

The sidereal chart is thus:
Leo rising, Jupiter in Aquarius, Venus and Mercury in Pisces, Saturn, Sun and Mars in Aries, Moon in Cancer, Lot in Scorpio, preceding New Moon in Aries.

The tropical chart is thus:
Virgo rising, Jupiter and Venus in Pisces, Mercury and Saturn in Aries, Sun and Mars in Taurus, Moon in Leo, Lot in Sagittarius, preceding New Moon in Taurus.

(And by the way, the person has problems with eyesight, just as Valens, Rhetorius, the divine Ptolemy and others have assigned to Cancer because of the Beehive Cluster and 6 other signs because of specific star clusters.)
 
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JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
waybread said:
Petosiris, my big interest is in tracking the origins of Hellenistic astrology,
more as an historian would do it.
I'm not about to become a latter-day Hellenistic astrologer
to read charts in the here-and-now.
I gather that you are interested in both the history and the practice.
I am perfectly comfortable with my approach.

Valens in his first introduction to the signs
says horrible things about Aquarius and Capricorn
with Capricorn being the worst.
Whether due to his actual concept for his book, or whether
2 millennia later, we are missing pieces of some explanatory text
Valens doesn't actually say what you do with this "knowledge"
about wretched signs, but let's face it.
Nobody is going to read a nativity for a sun-Capricorn in this way today.

I could quote all kinds of horrible things
that various Hellenistic astrologers said
about various horoscopic placements and their chart natives.
We don't (or shouldn't) talk to horoscope natives this way today.
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waybread said:

Some Hellenistic astrology is ugly indeed.
(For example, woe betide any miscreant with Mars opposite Saturn
in a "dishonerable" position.)

Frankly I'd be happy if the traditional/modern divisiveness just went away.
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an example of dire modernist astrological interpretation
describes en masse
'the Pluto in Cancer generation' as follows :smile:
For the Pluto-in-Cancer generation
the 'devil' took the form of the Twisted Parent
quietly inflicting horrible destruction on anything 'cute'.
Under the umbrella of face-saving silences, horrors multiplied:
keeping the 'dangerous' world safely outside the shell
allowed what is within to fester
to grow strange and unnatural.
These darker, secretive aspects of Pluto-in-Cancer's passion for safety
breed monsters that reside in Cancer territory - The home!
The Family is where we now enter the realm of real darkness.
In the darker Plutonian corners of the human spirit, the ancient beast was plotting
and in this case, it was against the very creatures who needed nurture.
There was a silent, unmarked epidemic of child abuse, sexual, physical, and psychological
during the years that the Pluto-in-Cancer generation of people
was raising its families. Skye Alexander
 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
petosiris said:
The Anonymous of 379 text which focuses on fixed stars at angles claims the following:

In particular, if some signs and unwandering stars are in the degree of the place of gods or in the degree of the subterranean angle as well as when they rise at the horoscope, they render great assistance and help to a person who is born owing to a divine apparition or by means of dreams...
When the stars set in the horns of Capricorn, the Kids and the Goat, are in the above-mentioned places, they bring support or the apparitions of Pan or of Mercury, especially when a benefic planet watches the places we have mentioned. - http://www.cieloeterra.it/eng/eng.testi.379/eng.379.html
* the text says Hermes, not Mercury, and most likely meant the Greek god not the Roman one.

Obviously they are related to actual constellations.



Surprise, it does not mean spirituality or intuition. Water means water. Your property may be near water, your disease might be moist, your personality might be moist or your death might be by water.

I was just looking at a chart today where the person recounted an actual accident in childhood surrounding water that brings suffering to him and he has the Moon in Cancer in the 12th squared by the two malefics from Aries (Mars within minutes). There is nothing such in his tropical chart to account for this accident, there is no placement in a watery sign aside from Jupiter and Venus in the 7th - Pisces.
Sidereally, Venus in its bound in Pisces trines the Moon.

The sidereal chart is thus:
Leo rising, Jupiter in Aquarius, Venus and Mercury in Pisces, Saturn, Sun and Mars in Aries, Moon in Cancer, Lot in Scorpio, preceding New Moon in Aries.

The tropical chart is thus:
Virgo rising, Jupiter and Venus in Pisces, Mercury and Saturn in Aries, Sun and Mars in Taurus, Moon in Leo, Lot in Sagittarius, preceding New Moon in Taurus.

(And by the way, the person has problems with eyesight, just as Valens, Rhetorius, the divine Ptolemy and others have assigned to Cancer because of the Beehive Cluster and 6 other signs because of specific star clusters.)
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Sigh. Petosiris, I've explained many times that tropical astrologers have looked at fixed stars, from Ptolemy to Bernadette Brady. I mentioned Manilius with his ascribing different future occupations to newborns, depending upon which constellations rose at the child's birth, with most of his constellations non-zodiacal.

I vividly recall once seeing the crescent moon in the claws of the Scorpion. Such scenes are awe-inspiring, but frankly, we turn to our ephemerides and horoscope software to cast and interpret horoscopes. If you can stand to read a (gasp shock) left-field modern astrology book, I recommend John Lash, Quest for the Zodiac on what a constellational astrology might look like today.

My post was primarily directed to Whoam1 and a few of the others, but in an open forum we can all respond to any post.

I agree that sometimes water just means water in a horoscope. It might indicate a person who is happiest living by the sea or in a maritime occupation, for example.

Also, with the Aristotelian scheme of 4 qualities, moist and dry have particular properties, with moisture being conducive to growth, and dryness usually being inimical to it.

I'll have to go back tomorrow and see if I can spot a traditional source on the 4 elements. Petosiris, what I quoted was not inherently wrong. It apparently was from a different system than the one you use. Mine initially came from Stephen Arroyo's book on the 4 elements, which I found to be extremely useful. I'll see if he cites anybody earlier.
 
Abby83

Abby83

Well-known member
david starling said:
How do you explain the symbolism of the fishes' tail? It's a very ancient version of the Sign. :unsure:
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I don't see anything watery with Capricorn whatsoever. So that's whatever they thought was right was incorrect. Glad they changed it. Cap is definitely goat climbing the hill outside in the sun, dry as dry can be. I can't see any fishes part of them. I don't see it being part of the sign. You can say all you want about history but today's description is far more accurate.
 
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petosiris

Banned
Sigh. Petosiris, I've explained many times that tropical astrologers have looked at fixed stars, from Ptolemy to Bernadette Brady. I mentioned Manilius with his ascribing different future occupations to newborns, depending upon which constellations rose at the child's birth, with most of his constellations non-zodiacal.
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Wow, how is placing the vernal equinox at the 10th degree of Aries tropical astrology? Manilius is using the Babylonian zodiac.

We already discussed that Ptolemy had the ''goofy idea'' of using the fixed stars for directly influencing weather. Based on that and properties he assigns to signs based on fixed stars, it is not clear to what degree is tropical astrologer Ptolemy comparable to tropical astrologers today. Not just signifying, influencing astrology.

I agree that sometimes water just means water in a horoscope. It might indicate a person who is happiest living by the sea or in a maritime occupation, for example.
Click to expand...

Yes.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
The Ox, now known as Taurus, makes sense for Fixed-Earth if you use the word "fixed" in the Alchemical sense as "solidified". A solid, land-dwelling animal, normally placid, but watch out when it's angry!
 
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