To be a feminist is to be evolved and enlightened

Dirius · Nov 6, 2017

AquarianRising said:
I routinely say I'm not perfect and I'm able and willing to admit when I'm wrong. I fell into the trap of stating that progressives don't mean harm simply for the purpose of not offending them. You are absolutely correct, the vast majority of "progressives" take the path they do out of anger as much as social conformity, not benevolence or constructive intent.

My issue is this: If at all possible, how could one even begin to bring such persons around to a more moderate perspective? It's not an easy question to answer, but I think it demands one. Convincing stubborn humans of their misconceptions is an uphill battle, but one that must be fought for the sake of preserving the lives of those whose brainwashing was inflicted upon them.

I don't think you were wrong, I get your previous point, essentially progressives believe that what they are doing is good for the world, so they see themselves as the heroes of the story.

Regarding your question I think you are doing a great job just by talking about it. Problem is that most people with conservative views simply don't talk about them, out of fear of being shamed. People do tend to change their minds, and most gullible people simply follow the latest fad. To be honest, its awsome to see more conservatives like us on this forum, at times it feels like an uphill battle against the left.

The biggest problems are schools. Once politics get into highschool, thats were the disease is hard to eradicate. Don't let that happen in your country. It happened in mine, and we have an entire generation of useless young people leeching off the goverment, making protests every week, and hampering our economy.

AquarianRising · Nov 6, 2017

wan said:
I think it's a combination of both. A bad seed growing in a bad environment makes an evil person.

"Bad seeds" are a myth generated to simplify the process of judging our peers. People are not two-dimensional. We are deep, textured and nuanced. It's fine to choose not to contemplate the sources of criminal conduct (there are people who are willing to do it for you) but to boil people down to such superficial terms does not paint you in a positive light, yourself.

Conversely, it is scientifically observable that some people have underdeveloped pituitary glands and limbic systems, promoting a lack of self-control of emotion and sexual response, but these factors can be medicated and/or the regions of the brain developed through practice. But in both scenarios, the issue is that those areas were not exercised as a child. Which is a direct result of environmental factors that did not promote the development of these neurological systems.

In other words, bad seeds don't exist, only toxic soil.

Dirius · Nov 6, 2017

CancerEvolve said:
Whoever thinks they can judge on whether someone keeps a child after being raped. I want to ask you, how would you feel if i tore your eye balls out of your skull then never give you the chance to end your misery there and then?

Who wants the spawn of an evil person in them and to give birth to it?

I don't care "oh it's a life we must save it" It's a life that will never have a life and as such suffered nothing from the abortion, the person who needs help and is recovering form the ordeal here has far more say and should feel stronger for their own choice whether it be keeping the child or not.

Would love to see many people in the shoes of this person, in fact i would love to give these judging type a real lesson in what hard ship and cruelty really is, but that is perhaps seen as threatening, fragile ego's and fragile people usually point to others and judge.

I don't think many people judge rape victims who have an abortion. In fact most pro-life advocates are usually more than understanding towards a woman that has an abortion after being raped.

What people usually do judge is when a woman who gets pregnant by her boyfriend after consensual intercourse, and who has the means to care for her child, gets an abortion instead of taking up parental responsabilities.

What you are doing is going for the extreme example that almost never happens. Pro life advocates do encourage rapoe victims to give their children away, but thats a completly different situation from being "judgemental".

AquarianRising · Nov 6, 2017

Dirius said:
I don't think you were wrong, I get your previous point, essentially progressives believe that what they are doing is good for the world, so they see themselves as the heroes of the story.

Regarding your question I think you are doing a great job just by talking about it. Problem is that most people with conservative views simply don't talk about them, out of fear of being shamed. People do tend to change their minds, and most gullible people simply follow the latest fad. To be honest, its awsome to see more conservatives like us on this forum, at times it feels like an uphill battle against the left.

The biggest problems are schools. Once politics get into highschool, thats were the disease is hard to eradicate. Don't let that happen in your country. It happened in mine, and we have an entire generation of useless young people leeching off the goverment, making protests every week, and hampering our economy.

Yeah... Politics. The Achilles' heel of humanity.

CancerEvolve · Nov 6, 2017

Dirius said:
I don't think many people judge rape victims who have an abortion. In fact most pro-life advocates are usually more than understanding towards a woman that has an abortion after being raped.

What people usually do judge is when a woman who gets pregnant by her boyfriend after consensual intercourse, and who has the means to care for her child, gets an abortion instead of taking up parental responsabilities.

What you are doing is going for the extreme example that almost never happens. Pro life advocates do encourage rapoe victims to give their children away, but thats a completly different situation from being "judgemental".

I perhaps jumped ahead a bit there, at least it's in the right place.

I see what you are saying and yeah abortion for not being careful is rather wrong, at that point both parties should assume responsibility, i mean you knew that it is possible to get pregnant, so be there for the child you created.

AquarianRising · Nov 6, 2017

CancerEvolve said:
I perhaps jumped ahead a bit there, at least it's in the right place.

I see what you are saying and yeah abortion for not being careful is rather wrong, at that point both parties should assume responsibility, i mean you knew that it is possible to get pregnant, so be there for the child you created.

A hearty and non-religious Amen.

wan · Nov 6, 2017

AquarianRising said:
"Bad seeds" are a myth generated to simplify the process of judging our peers. People are not two-dimensional. We are deep, textured and nuanced. It's fine to choose not to contemplate the sources of criminal conduct (there are people who are willing to do it for you) but to boil people down to such superficial terms does not paint you in a positive light, yourself.

I don't think attributing people's behaviors to genetics is "boiling people down to superficial terms". People are made up of proteins, and genes code for proteins. Therefore, genes exert influence on people. Do you dispute this?

Conversely, it is scientifically observable that some people have underdeveloped pituitary glands and limbic systems, promoting a lack of self-control of emotion and sexual response, but these factors can be medicated and/or the regions of the brain developed through practice. But in both scenarios, the issue is that those areas were not exercised as a child. Which is a direct result of environmental factors that did not promote the development of these neurological systems.

Environmental factors are not the only things that could cause underdeveloped pituitary glands and limbic systems. Some people are born with these parts in faulty conditions.

In other words, bad seeds don't exist, only toxic soil.

You need to prove that everybody is born a perfect angel and only becomes evil due to environmental factors and those only. As far as I know, the question of "nature versus nurture" is still raging in the science community. For you to make such a sweeping statement (namely, "bad seeds don't exist"), you need to prove your claim.

Dirius · Nov 6, 2017

CancerEvolve said:
I perhaps jumped ahead a bit there, at least it's in the right place.

I see what you are saying and yeah abortion for not being careful is rather wrong, at that point both parties should assume responsibility, i mean you knew that it is possible to get pregnant, so be there for the child you created.

Personally I am pro-choice, because I think there is no practical way for preventing a woman from having an abortion if she wants one. And I also don't think it is the goverment's role to tell someone what to do with their own bodies.

She can travel to another country where abortions are legal and get one, she can get a clandestine doctor to perform it in her own country, or she can induce abortion by natural means or a combination of over the counter meds that will result in an abortion particulary in the early stages of pregnancy.

You can't really control someone from doing what they want with their own body, unless you plan on having a woman restrained in a bed for 9 months, which would be constitutionally wrong.

CancerEvolve · Nov 6, 2017

AquarianRising said:
A hearty and non-religious Amen.

On another level i feel for those who have the other half not wanting the child, not only does that disprove any loyalty or love they had for you, it also means they are willing to think of themselves over their own child.

And either side can be like this, the father wants the child, mother don't want it.. vice versa.

If anything that's an even worse thing than both parties not wanting the child, however at least the stronger half will pull out all stops to make sure that child see's the best days they can, and this is where the unwritten book of parenting comes in since that don't exist.

AquarianRising · Nov 6, 2017

wan said:
I don't think attributing people's behaviors to genetics is "boiling people down to superficial terms". People are made up of proteins, and genes code for proteins. Therefore, genes exert influence on people. Do you dispute this?

Environmental factors are not the only things that could cause underdeveloped pituitary glands and limbic systems. Some people are born with these parts in faulty conditions.

You need to prove that everybody is born a perfect angel and only becomes evil due to environmental factors and those only. As far as I know, the question of "nature versus nurture" is still raging in the science community. For you to make such a sweeping statement (namely, "bad seeds don't exist"), you need to prove your claim.

What I dispute is that genetic predisposition equates to inherent evil. That isn't science, that's religious prejudice. And I wasn't suggesting that underdeveloped pituitary glands and limbic systems are the results of environmental factors (albeit they very well can be), I was actually addressing the issue of genetic predisposition.

I am not promoting any version of religious doctrine in which angels do or can exist. Perfection is a myth. What I'm trying to get across is that judging an infant by religious standards of thought, without even allowing for the possibility of alternative development, is both irresponsible and entirely inhumane.

AquarianRising · Nov 6, 2017

CancerEvolve said:
On another level i feel for those who have the other half not wanting the child, not only does that disprove any loyalty or love they had for you, it also means they are willing to think of themselves over their own child.

And either side can be like this, the father wants the child, mother don't want it.. vice versa.

If anything that's an even worse thing than both parties not wanting the child, however at least the stronger half will pull out all stops to make sure that child see's the best days they can, and this is where the unwritten book of parenting comes in since that don't exist.

In these sort of circumstances, the only responsible course is a discussion of the subject of having children and a firm, clear, and heartfelt agreement to either have or not have children. If one partner cannot put their foot down and assert their perspective, the result is inevitably resentment, if not outright anger. Unfortunately, not all people have the ability to communicate their grievances. In those cases, a relationship or guidance counselor is often a good idea to have on-hand.

wan · Nov 6, 2017

AquarianRising said:
What I dispute is that genetic predisposition equates to inherent evil. That isn't science, that's religious prejudice. And I wasn't suggesting that underdeveloped pituitary glands and limbic systems are the results of environmental factors (albeit they very well can be), I was actually addressing the issue of genetic predisposition.

I am not promoting any version of religious doctrine in which angels do or can exist. Perfection is a myth. What I'm trying to get across is that judging an infant by religious standards of thought, without even allowing for the possibility of alternative development, is both irresponsible and entirely inhumane.

I am actually not a Christian (if this is what you are thinking of). I am agnostic.

david starling · Nov 6, 2017

AquarianRising said:
And aggressive, violent men are termed "a**holes". You're engaging in a double-standard, here, magnifying the disparagement of women while downplaying or outright ignoring the disparaging of men. So long as there are those who believe in honesty and equal accountability, you aren't going to be able to white-wash the topic with your "progressive" colors, I'm sorry. I don't believe you intend harm, I don't believe any typical liberal truly does, but your indoctrination from the far left holds the capacity to cause it.

I didn't include the words "violent", or "aggressive". The word was "assertive". Not the same meaning. I don't believe you intend harm, either.

AquarianRising · Nov 6, 2017

wan said:
I am actually not a Christian (if this is what you are thinking of). I am agnostic.

Be that as it may, the source of your conviction is dogma, not reasoning. It's deeply important not to fall into the trap of assuming that people cannot change. Whether you've witnessed it first-hand or not, I have. Biological organisms live or die by their adaptivity. We are not static creatures.

wan · Nov 6, 2017

AquarianRising said:
Be that as it may, the source of your conviction is dogma, not reasoning. It's deeply important not to fall into the trap of assuming that people cannot change. Whether you've witnessed it first-hand or not, I have. Biological organisms live or die by their adaptivity. We are not static creatures.

What part of what I said is "dogma"? The only thing that I am saying is that genes exert influence on people, due to the fact that genes code for the proteins that in turn make up people. You can pick this apart if you want but I am just curious why you think this is "dogma". As far as I can see, this is a scientific principle.

AppLeo · Nov 6, 2017

The reason why conservatives don’t support abortion is cuz they are sexually repressed and are usually involved in church. Which means that they value sex after marriage and abstinence. Ultimately personal responsibility. Therefore, rapes practically never happen, or that no one has a child on accident unless it’s absolutely intended.

Liberals on the other hand are sexually liberal. They go out and have parties and get drunk and when they get pregnant on accident they want to get an abortion because they don’t take sex or having a baby nearly as seriously.

IMO, both points of view are fine. That’s why the government on a local or state level should decide.

Abortion shouldn’t be outlawed in Seattle. But abortion should be outlawed in religious places or in the in South... like Texas or something..

wan · Nov 6, 2017

AppLeo said:
The reason why conservatives don’t support abortion is cuz they are sexually repressed and are usually involved in church.

I believe that some of them are against abortion because they think it amounts to murder (of the unborn).

AquarianRising · Nov 6, 2017

wan said:
I agree with you. I just want to point out that I am not against ALL forms of abortion. I feel that, in the case of rape, the resultant fetus should be aborted. The fetus comes from a rapist, so it could in theory grow up to be a rapist too. Or if its a girl, she could carry the rapist's bad genes. Both of these scenarios are very undesirable and I fully endorse women who would seek abortion in these circumstances.

Another scenario where I would support abortion is if the woman's health would be compromised.

The very comment that sparked this sub-debate is infused with dogmatic ideology. To suggest that an infant is apt enough to become a rapist that it should be killed for no better reason than one of its parents was a rapist. Such a vengeful, short-sighted and apathetic dogma does not promote balanced reasoning. If anything, it eliminates it.

My father was a general contractor, an owner of a bar and a bit of a philanderer. I have no real interest in construction, I don't even think alcohol is something people should imbibe, and I've never treated women like toys for my amusement. I am not my father, I am me, and any child born of a rapist is his or her own person as well. You do not understand genetics, but you are intent on using the subject to reinforce your dogma. Be careful that doesn't land you in hot water with people.

AppLeo · Nov 6, 2017

wan said:
I believe that some of them are against abortion because they think it amounts to murder (of the unborn).

Well to some degree it is murder. Like in the late stages 6 months or more...

It really depends how you look at it. Conservatives, like I said, are more religious and about purity and decency, so they an abortion is murder.

Liberals have a more open minded, I don’t care about purity and and making it clear whether or not I want a child.. so it’s not murder:

I’m just glad I won’t ever need to get an abortion or my partner getting one.

AppLeo · Nov 6, 2017

I agree that genes don’t determine if someone is a rapist.

Free will and nurture is a thing.

Even born psychopaths can end up doing a lot of good for world by becoming a neurosurgeon or something.

To be a feminist is to be evolved and enlightened

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