Lykanized
Well-known member
Are you considering easy aspects in this theory? Perhaps if someone has easy aspects to all three of those outers?
Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
- Thread starter BaoSanniang
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Cary2
Banned
Of course, it is widely known that easy aspects have less challenge and less trouble. But the entire chart connects together in intricate ways, so that is the ultimate index.
When easy aspects contain factors that are hostile to each other, some of that challenge and turmoil remains even though the aspect is easy. But I can't deny that having an easy connection between a troublesome pair can make them much less likely to cause trouble. It depends on the synthesis of the entire chart.
It is so often a matter of energy. A chart with hard aspects is a more energetic chart. The Mars/Pluto square is found in champions which shows the benefits of challenge and energy.
Mars/Pluto often describes a workaholic or someone who works two jobs or works very long hours. That reveals something about the drive in the planetary pair. I think the easy aspects are more likely to show as a workaholic or someone who thrives on vigorous expenditures of energy.
Mars/Pluto carries much of the heights and depths belonging to Scorpio and Pluto. This complicates life for chart interpreters, since the contrast of heights and depths makes interpretation precarious. Some folks with Mars/Pluto aspects are very enthusiastic about metaphysics and the occult.
I do think the sextile is less easy than is often reported. I know the sextile of Mars/Saturn can be brilliantly helpful or downright deadly.
When easy aspects contain factors that are hostile to each other, some of that challenge and turmoil remains even though the aspect is easy. But I can't deny that having an easy connection between a troublesome pair can make them much less likely to cause trouble. It depends on the synthesis of the entire chart.
It is so often a matter of energy. A chart with hard aspects is a more energetic chart. The Mars/Pluto square is found in champions which shows the benefits of challenge and energy.
Mars/Pluto often describes a workaholic or someone who works two jobs or works very long hours. That reveals something about the drive in the planetary pair. I think the easy aspects are more likely to show as a workaholic or someone who thrives on vigorous expenditures of energy.
Mars/Pluto carries much of the heights and depths belonging to Scorpio and Pluto. This complicates life for chart interpreters, since the contrast of heights and depths makes interpretation precarious. Some folks with Mars/Pluto aspects are very enthusiastic about metaphysics and the occult.
I do think the sextile is less easy than is often reported. I know the sextile of Mars/Saturn can be brilliantly helpful or downright deadly.
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david starling
Well-known member
Cary, what's your maximum Orb for a Grand Trine?
Lykanized
Well-known member
The sextile happens to be how my Mars and Pluto meet, but it also has trines to Neptune and Uranus and I do feel the trine is a lot easier since they're in the same element. It just feels like they understand each other on a deep level so it just flows. Sextiles don't have that so I can see what you're saying. My Mars ruler is trine Pluto and opposite Uranus/Neptune but I definitely feel the hit from Uranus/Neptune A LOT more
Most sources describe the trine as a slightly harder aspect tho. I wonder why
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Cary2
Banned
Harder than the sextile? Not me. The only thing softer than a trine is a novile.
That doesn't mean I think the trine is weak. The squares become less troublesome in your 40's as you become seasoned and mature and familiar with the hurdles, but trines just persist.
I use a smaller orb for the sextile than most people. The orb I use for quintile and biquintile is larger than the sextile.
A close Grand Trine with small orbs all the way around is usually an affliction. The midpoints locked into such a configuration are the drivers, I think. I don't think it is due to the trine's normal qualities. I don't recall seeing a Minor Grand trine that was an affliction, though. Wide, skew Grand Trines are probably not an affliction. Or so I think.
Come to think of it. The sextiles in a Minor Grand trine may benefit from the involvement, or so I am inclined to think now.
conspiracy theorist
Well-known member
That view of grand trines reminds me of the specific case of Jordan Belfort, who has a water grand trine of Cancer Sun - Scorpio Neptune - Pisces Jupiter. You could see how that played out in the movie "Wolf of Wall Street" which is said to be based on actual events in his life. As well as the many cases of serial killers and "bad" people who have little to no discordant aspects in their chart.
Cary2
Banned
I use a very wide orb for Grand Trines because experience proves to me that is justified. I am amazed how often a skew Grand Trine is instrumental to chart interpretation.
Look at Mercury/Jupiter/Netpune in the charts, Marlon Brando, Jack Nicholson, and Meryl Streep. The two planetary pairs that most reliably describe an actor are Mars/Neptune and Mercury/Neptune. Mercury/Neptune/Jupiter often describes a successful actor. It can also describe a fine sense of humor. I have a friend born on Streep's birthday who is not an actor, but he has the best sense of humor of anyone I ever met. Mercury/Neptune "joker". My friend is known throughout our circles as a successful joker.
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Cary2
Banned
Yeah. Sun/Jupiter/Neptune "gambler"
Jerry Sandusky has Sun/Mars/Neptune and the widest orb in the bunch is 2.4 degrees or so. This looks like an afliction to me.
Cary2
Banned
I'm sorry. You asked a question about Yods, but I answered with quincunxes.
I can skirt the many finicky rules about configurations because I have found that the chief property of a configuration is its meaningful connection of three or more factors. Whether I interpret a Yod or a Grand Trine, it is the three factors combined in meaning that I concentrate on. The fact that a Yod has a sextile and two quincunxes is secondary. I certainly do not view it as "Finger of God" whatever that means.
Notice how many astrologers try to esconce themselves in mystery. They have dreams of students at their feet while they evoke astrological confections. Finger of God indeed.
A proper Yod has one planet opposed the midpoint of the other two. That would be meaningful to Ebertin and his school without any consideration of the aspects involved. The addition of aspects, two quincunxes and one sexitle, is further refinement that expands the orbs a little. When midpoint pictures are combined with aspects, the orbs and the significance increases.
My interpretation will consist mainly of the three planet combination and the specific meaning implied by that. Oh, yes, and a Yod has strain and opportunity.
david starling
Well-known member
"Strain and opportunity"! Excellent description. Opportunity knocks, but it's a strain to open the door. Requires a reason for motivation, besides just the Yod alone.
Here's a heavy one--total Solar eclipse on one's SR Day. I know someone who's going to have that, Sun in
. Not sure how to explain what it portends.My sons have an almost exact Pluto Mars opposition. it seems to play out as ability to achieve their goals despite difficult situations occurring. Its an inner personal power thing too they have an inner resource which they can call on.
When doing a project they will stick at it till its done exactly perfectly. They like to do something 100% eg if they are making something they will attend to every exactly detail until they are satisfied it is the best.
They don't have any other Pluto aspects.
When doing a project they will stick at it till its done exactly perfectly. They like to do something 100% eg if they are making something they will attend to every exactly detail until they are satisfied it is the best.
They don't have any other Pluto aspects.
david starling
Well-known member
What Signs are they in?
Cary2
Banned
Yes, Mars/Pluto loves a challenge, and they invest themselves "whole hog".
Cary2
Banned
You may know who Lindsey Buckingham is, he was the lead guitarist, male singer, and contributing songwriter for the band Fleetwood Mac. His relationship with the others in the band, especially his ex-lover Stevie Nicks, is very rocky. In fact, he was recently fired from the band as they prepared for a new world tour.
Buckingham has a close Mars/Pluto conjunction closely conjunct his Ascendant squared to Venus. This is not a simple Mars/Pluto issue since Mars/Asc and Pluto/Asc are very important contributors. The band reveal only that he is difficult without getting specific. Buckingham and Nicks parted as lovers near the height of the band's success, but they continued to be coworkers in the band.
Buckingham is a musical genius, and Brian Wilson is another genius from the Beach Boys. Wilson admires Buckingham, and he was excited to work with him in the studio, but said that he was more intense than anyone he had ever known. Wilson said he was actually "scared" a few times because of Buckingham's "intensity".
Buckingham has a close Mars/Pluto conjunction closely conjunct his Ascendant squared to Venus. This is not a simple Mars/Pluto issue since Mars/Asc and Pluto/Asc are very important contributors. The band reveal only that he is difficult without getting specific. Buckingham and Nicks parted as lovers near the height of the band's success, but they continued to be coworkers in the band.
Buckingham is a musical genius, and Brian Wilson is another genius from the Beach Boys. Wilson admires Buckingham, and he was excited to work with him in the studio, but said that he was more intense than anyone he had ever known. Wilson said he was actually "scared" a few times because of Buckingham's "intensity".
david starling
Well-known member
Why a career in music?
Another musical genius, Neil Young, has Pluto in Leo Sq. Asc in Scorpio.
Another musical genius, Neil Young, has Pluto in Leo Sq. Asc in Scorpio.
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Cary2
Banned
.
When I learned astrology, I went the usual contemporary astrology route. I followed the rules even if the rules changed from one astrologer to the next. I continued to have just enough astrological epiphanies that I stayed interested and motivated, but I was not happy with the astrological advice that I was getting. I could see that many of the standard methods weren't working nearly well enough for me. The dispositor method was particularly unreliable.
I found a book (I was buying many books) called "Synthesis" by Tracy Marks. That book kicked me in the butt, and my accuracy and skill jumped up a half dozen notches. It opened my eyes, and I began to explore further. Now, I don't use her method today because I have refined my own, but her method helped me in my path.
Most people declare the chart ruler by the planet ruling the Ascendant unless there is something conjunct the Ascendant, then it becomes the ruler. What I say is, there is a better way, and you will find NOT just one ruler but a pecking order of rulers that leads you through synthesis.
What planets are closest to the four angles, As, Mc, Ds, Ic? Those are the rulers. Often the closest is the chief. You may find aspects this way, and it is great if you discover that there is a ruling aspect rather than a ruling planet because an aspect is more focused and specific.
For Buckingham, It is Mars/Pluto/Venus. Rock (Mars) Music (Venus). The Mars/Venus square is the ruler of his chart. It is more reliable than the sign on the Mc or most of the other guides that you are given.
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david starling
Well-known member
Neil Young has a tight Mars/Venus Sq. in Fire and Water (0 degrees 
/ 0 degrees 
), and a Grand Trine in Air, including 
in Gemini.
/ 0 degrees ), and a Grand Trine in Air, including in Gemini.
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Cary2
Banned
Well theres not much confidence in data, and finding rulers relies on reliable data. But he does have Venus-square-Mars.