lone wolf syndrome

Ebenia,
You just described me to a tee! Were we separated at birth? LOL
The part about silence especially struck me. In my experience, it seems like people that value silence are a rarity. Almost everyone I've ever had to share living space with has just had to have some sort of noise going all the time - radio, tv - sometimes both at once! Not me! I love music, but I think I love silence even more!

My chart is in link at bottom of my post.

FL

Ebenia said:

I am a total lone wolf, but not anti-social one - I just love to be alone in my own home in my pajamas and think about things. I love my own space and I feel mostly alone in groups where I feel like I understand these people but they don't really get me. I am on a people concearned field, psychology, so I am not really withdrawn from people, I just like to be by myself. I can be very "aggressive" (capricornian way) and active with people, but only for some time and then I NEED my own space or I start to lose it. I need the loneliness to ground myself and really to find again who I am. Am I a visioner, I have high ideals and I have strong work ethics and I cannot think of going to party or something if it might affect my studies or work. But I am not dull or boring, I am very humoristic and very fun to be around with but it seems like I have these two sides of me, the social happy, active one and the silent thinker.

Silence is something I love. Sometimes I love to listen to music at home, but usually I just love to be with my own thoughts. It seems like if I have music on it distracts my thinking too much. Sometimes it's a good thing though.

I have strong Saturn-Capricorn-10th house influence with Neptune and 12th house: Sun, Neptune and Mercury in 10th, Jupiter in Aries and Venus in Aquarius in 12th and Moon in 4th opposing Neptune on my MC. Pluto 7th trines my Moon and Mars is in 7th.

Click to expand...

Very interesting, freedomlover! I looked at your chart and actually it does not have so many similarities than I would have expected to see, but maybe your Mercury in 12th squaring Saturn is one of the key issues.

Loving the silence is totally rarity but what is more rare, is silence it self! We hear always some noise around us and usually it is not pleasant, especially in the cities. People have not used to the silence and I think it frightens people - hearing their own thoughts can sometimes be unpleasant...

Ebenia said:

Very interesting, freedomlover! I looked at your chart and actually it does not have so many similarities than I would have expected to see, but maybe your Mercury in 12th squaring Saturn is one of the key issues.

Loving the silence is totally rarity but what is more rare, is silence it self! We hear always some noise around us and usually it is not pleasant, especially in the cities. People have not used to the silence and I think it frightens people - hearing their own thoughts can sometimes be unpleasant...

Click to expand...

Yes, I think the square by Saturn has much to do with it, as well as probably the t-square in general, since Mercury is the apex. Mercury being in 12th likes both solitude and silence - and music! Being the ruler of my 6th, I think it is crucial to my health and well-being that I'm able to have this silence. It is disposited by my unaspected Jupiter Rx in Gemini in the 6th, cusp of 7th, further showing the implications in my health. Also - Jupiter is retrograde in Gemini - cut back on the communications?! I have to have the silence to "hear myself think", or else all I hear is what others think! I know there is a place of mastery in which one can meditate amongst a crowd and have perfect silence in your head. However, I'm not there yet!

To further illustrate my chart and how it describes the tendency to be a "lone wolf"..... I think the answer lies in the Cap Asc and Cap Mars and Venus in the 1st AND Aquarius Moon in the 1st. It's hard to be very different and fit in with tradition and what other people expect of you.

By progression, I have several placements in the 12th, as well. My Sun is now in Cap in the 12th. My Mars and now Rx Venus are conjunct in Aquarius in the 12th.

Also, I think much of mine is the extreme sensitivity to negative energy put out by others. I'm not sure what to attribute this to, but I suspect my Cancer Asc and the Saturn/Chiron/Ceres in Pisces in the 2nd. My energy is really drained around others. I've spoken to a few other "lone wolves" who quote this type of thing as a major reason they keep to themselves.


Thanks again for your thought, Ebenia. They were most helpful to me. Hopefully our posts on this have been a good contribution to Vinyasa's thread - I know yours are!

FL, I've just had another look at your chart and I think chiron opp uranus as well as Aquarius moon just screams independence
Even those who are more introverted and less inclined to become directly involved in social and political issues will quietly seek out the unusual, the bizarre, and follow paths going counter to collective norms; they will sometimes have close friends or enemies who are very obviously Uranian (Aquarius types)

People with Chiron/Uranus contacts can be brilliant and original thinkers; they are iconoclastic and challenging, and often perceive situations with penetrating clarity; their laser‑beam mind may make others feel uncomfortable, as they often survey life from a position of distance and detachment. Their wound may be a lack of connection with their personal feelings, as well as the disillusionment felt when life fails to live up to their ideal plan.

Plus chiron opp pluto Often they have great emotional depth and penetrating insight into others. Once able to encompass their own emotional wounds they are capable of great loyalty in relationships; nothing shocks them, as they see and accept the very worst in themselves and others. Chiron/Pluto initiates transformation through ­acceptance of what is, at the deepest level.

The emotional reserve shown by many people sometimes conceals a fear of their own unexpressed or imagined anger and ­destructiveness; they may silently say; "Keep away for your own good," but also hope that you won't, as they long for their fears to be proved groundless.

astrologer50 said:

FL, I've just had another look at your chart and I think chiron opp uranus as well as Aquarius moon just screams independence

Click to expand...

Now you know why I chose my screenname and avatar And I thought it was just my Sag Sun and Aquarius Moon.

Thanks once again for the information, astrologer50!

Anyway, I'm a bit confused with your reference to Scorpio. If we say Virgo is the Ascendant then Virgo is the rising sign.

Click to expand...

Hi Kanshu, the reference to Scorpio had to do with the second of my initial list of indicators, namely "Saturn as ruler of 5th or 7th". What I was saying in my previous post, is that with Placidus and average distance from equator (but on second thought, with equal house system too), Saturn is ruler of the 5th for Virgo rising (or Virgo Asc, it's the same) and ruler of the 7th for Scorpio rising. 5th and 7th are the most interpersonal houses, the ones connecting one-to-one. Speaking for lone wolves, most probably the 11th would also play an important role, as it relates one-to-group. So, in order to get Capricorn on cusp of 11th, most probably Pisces is rising [bingo!] or even Aries [may i say bingo again? re: one of the first posts in this thread of divine g...]

I think there have been books and films on this concept which are quite interesting to check out if this has fired your imagination.

Click to expand...

Caro you are right, it is indeed one of the favourite motives in both literature and film industry. At least in literature, top of my list lone wolf hero would be Frankenstein (Uranian flavour - the author, Mary Shelley, acc. astro-databank is a Virgo Sun with Sagi Moon, Cancer rising and Saturn right on the Asc).

Do you know more about the animal totem? I find it highly interesting...

Agree about Sagis: they are not just the life of the party... I have found out that many Sagis are just XXL in a lot of aspects: when they decide to throw a party must be the one with 1000 guests... and when they decide to disappear they make you wonder whether you should declare them to the red cross... I suppose it is oversimplicity to connect them simply to jupiter's joviality: jupiter's excessiveness is also there as much more I suppose...

V -havent checked your chart but do you have virgo in it - this is a real tick box/clipboard syndrome.

Click to expand...

Virgo rising... Mercury and Mars final dispositors of the chart in mutual reception... [chart is in the signature]

Thank you All for your contributions so far, I've learnt a lot in the last days and hopefully I will continue to... And most importantly, I saw how one lone wolf finds another lone wolf and then another and another, and altogether they make a new pack of not that lonely wolves anymore

But please allow me to dedicate the next song from the 60s especially to Ebenia & Freedomlover:

[...] And in the naked light I saw,
ten thousand people, maybe more.
People talking without speaking,
people hearing without listening,
people writing songs that voices never share.
And no-one dared
Disturb the sound of silence.

V - I knew it - virgo ascendant!

I was thinking of actual films about lone men and lone wolfs(a book too if I remember) I think in alask/north america. but you have taken it a step further and I guess you are right. the incredible hulk, batman even???(of course wonder woman) not as classical as frankenstein but a similar concept.Also 'werewolf' which is really about the fear in primitive nature.

I also love silence. with my therapy work, I prefer no music but it is up to client. it has been interesting doing my case studies as I go to home of stressed clients they have tv, radio on all windows open - a need to connect with something. I think an anxiety not to be alone.

more on grand trine in water, the 'lazy' interpretation is indeed a very lazy interpretation of this trine. looking at it again, I lack energy in my chart(no fire really) so this is what I fear. however this would not be true of everyone with a grand water trine.

animal totem's very interesting. you can do meditations to work with this. there is a lot of stuff on web explaining this.

link
http://www.crystalinks.com/totemanimals.html

I must admit - I prefer 'free spirit' to 'lone wolf' though.

got to get on......

Caro said:

I must admit - I prefer 'free spirit' to 'lone wolf' though.

Click to expand...

I know you probably did not mean the thing I am about to contrast here, but this contradiction of free spirit and lone wolf is something I need to address!

To me, free spirit is completely different than lone wolf. To me, free spirit means more like gemini-sagittarius influenced person, with no worries of tomorrow, happiness in their heart and free to go and stay in their minds and in their concrete life.

But, the way I see lone wolf, is completely different. I feel that lone wolfs are definately not free - they are in many ways bounded by their own wounds and very much clinged into their scars and hurts. Not always, but many times. Sometimes also being by ones self is escaping somehow, and I understand this cause I have stated my self as a "lone wolf" also.

I mean, that there is totally different people and people want to be by themselves for different reasons, but to me, lone wolf syndrome does not psychologically mean anything of being free. Maybe trying to be free, but not really doing it. These things can often be seen in Saturnian influence - Saturn also represents fear.

But this is just something that came to me when I read your post and I know you probably did not mean it like this, but I just wanted to talk about this, cause I feel like it could give something new for this thread.

Edit. Thank you Vinyasa for your lovely words. They really touched my heart!

Cheers Vinyasa

I do think some people will interpret the lone wolf thing very differently. For some it is an inibility or need not to be part of community and relationship. For others it is someone who shows a high degree of independence, and for others the ability to separate themselves from the pack in order to take an effective lead in the direction of the community.

It gets very complex all of a sudden, and the way each chart combines starts to tell a story. I do think there is an issue with a three aspect rule... not so much in its workability but in the interpretation being held too rigidly, and so falling away from the reality and experience a person has in life.

FleaXXX

Ebenia - your take on this is interesting. you mention the heaviness of it/the need to be away from it all so person needs to escape from emotional etc. So maybe sun sign - air signs dont fit. This definitely reflects the wilderness man film i saw many years ago - who befriended a wolf. will try and get the name of the film as I am sure it was based on a true story. I definitely think it is actually quite a rare trait and that is why it can be feared. I have been up in the mountains but not alone - for safety reasons! Have met a number trekking alone and I admire that.

so Im probably not quite in this category although I tick at least 3 boxes.

also elements will show up in others charts but not the 'full' type

a lot of my friends are sagi's and geminis and like to be alone but are fine in company. as I said earlier sagi's for me definitley not in this 'lone wolf ' category.

Well then, the description seems to fit me (not perfectly, but well enough to be significant) and the astrological significations fit me (not perfectly, but well enough to be significant, so it seems.)
I've saturn and mercury conjunct in the seventh house, Saturn being domicile in Aquarius (unless we're using modern rulership shenanigans, then I guess saturn's in mutual reception with uranus)
Leo rising with sun in aquarius, as well, making Saturn my chart ruler's dispositor. So I'm pretty sure Saturn qualifies as "elevated" in these terms (but definitely not "closer to zenith" elevated, not sure which one you meant)
Saturn is pretty freakin' closely trine my 11th house Gemini moon, (but more closely trine the moon's south node, which is about 20 minutes ahead of my moon)

Only planet in the 12th is Mars (which is right behind the 12th cusp in Placidus houses, but definitely in the 12th in Koch)

I certainly have no problems being alone, but it's not as if I flee from the company of family and friends. Sometimes I prefer to be with them, sometimes I'd rather be alone.

Vinyasa said:

so I would like to find at least 3 indications in the same chart:

* elevated Saturn in the chart (by sign or by house disposition)
* Saturn as ruler of 5th or 7th
* Saturn elevated + aspecting Moon by trine/sextile
* Jupiter in Capricorn and/or in the 12th
* Mercury in Sagittarius and Venus in Capricorn or Aquarius
* Grand Trine in water signs

Click to expand...

I call myself a hermit

saturn is in my ninth, (rx)
capricorn rules my fifth,
mercury is in sagittarius, (rx)
my venus is in capricorn
12th house moon in virgo & virgo asc
plus venus sq uranus!
4th house ruler in the 4th (jupiter in sag) stellium in 4th (sag)

Do I win?

I guess lone wolf applies to me, as far as venus in Capricorn goes -I've never dated men with money or material goods in fact the opposite, I used to go for the underdog but I guess that was the 7th house mars in pisces and I'm definitely not good at taking, more of a giver which worked against me numerous times. I got bored easily which is probably due to venus uranus square and attracting unsuitable partners. I prefer my own space and family is most important (4th house sun/stellium) to me.

William Lilly did say mars in 7th bad for relationships, (the venus uranus square doesn't help). I can't say the 9th house saturn made me a bigot or very rigid in regard to religion - it takes all sorts to make the world go round and 'live and let live'.

Merc in sag - I still waffle!

sagvirgorising said:

I call myself a hermit

saturn is in my ninth, (rx)
capricorn rules my fifth,
mercury is in sagittarius, (rx)
my venus is in capricorn
12th house moon in virgo & virgo asc
plus venus sq uranus!
4th house ruler in the 4th (jupiter in sag) stellium in 4th (sag)

Do I win?

Click to expand...

Hehe, depends... Do you want to win?

I used to go for the underdog but I guess that was the 7th house mars in pisces and I'm definitely not good at taking, more of a giver which worked against me numerous times.

Click to expand...

I got some of them in my life too... I always attributed it to Neptune ruler of the 7th (you must have DC in Pisces too, right?) and I've said to myself "wait to see when transiting Neptune arrives on the DC: you will probably hit the jackpot!"

Merc in sag - I still waffle!

Click to expand...

I adore Merc in Sagi, especially when Rx: the most clumsy Mercury I can think of... not meant to offend you or anyone else, i find it so sweet and lovable, though so little successful in verbal communication... that's a personal preference though, not an astrological judgement...


Olivia, thank you for your contribution in the thread, very concise and specific

Vinyasa said:

Hehe, depends... Do you want to win?

Click to expand...

No lol I'm still looking for my place in this world, I guess I haven't found a place to snuggle in...

[/QUOTE]I got some of them in my life too... I always attributed it to Neptune ruler of the 7th (you must have DC in Pisces too, right?) and I've said to myself "wait to see when transiting Neptune arrives on the DC: you will probably hit the jackpot!" [/QUOTE]

Ummmm Neptune won't hit my DC until 2028! I'll be an old spinster, like Norman Bates' mother..

[/QUOTE]I adore Merc in Sagi, especially when Rx: the most clumsy Mercury I can think of... not meant to offend you or anyone else, i find it so sweet and lovable, though so little successful in verbal communication... that's a personal preference though, not an astrological judgement...[/QUOTE]

Awww.....shucks I am clumsy..see what I mean about the underdog thing? lol

.....and I haven't got the hang of the quote thing either......apparently...

LOL! I am not a full-time lone wolf, just a lot of the time. I do like 1-on-1 relationships, if they are with the opposite sex. But when I am a lone wolf I am normally #2 in Vinyasa's classification, and sometimes #1 when things do not work as planned. I only have 2 of the mentioned indicators, but I have added a few of my own.

I have Saturn as the most elevated planet, Saturn is the ruler of the 5th house, Saturn squares Ascendant, and a relocated Saturn conjunct Ascendant, and Saturn transiting Ascendant. I do go to restaurants alone sometimes, but never to movies, LOL.

Pluto in the 12th (or conjunct Ascendant, or 1st house) brings satisfaction from being alone. This is when personal growth happens - when the person is alone. I often say that I would rather enjoy my own company than be in a bad or even a random unknown company.

Perhaps this is also my Leo, but any group activity is a turn-off, like going to the gym, playing team sports, and even many group gatherings. I do not mind being in the center or attention, but not for the sake of attention itself, but rather as a recognition, if I earned it by doing something that I think was worth doing.

sagvirgorising said:

.....and I haven't got the hang of the quote thing either......apparently...

Click to expand...

sagvirgorising, you are adorable!

sagvirgorising said:

.....and I haven't got the hang of the quote thing either......apparently...

Click to expand...

Just leave the stroke/slash out of the first bracket, so, when quoting without the quote button, you say
[:quote]the text here[/quote]. Leave the colon ) out of the first bracket as well, so your first bracket will look like:

. I put it in, so you could see how to quote without my example turning into a quote itself.

AQ7

Click to expand...

mmmm MercR in Sag here.... foot in mouth occasionally... but can knock a wine glass over at 50 paces... my sis sag sun sag merc the same....yet I have gem rising jup in gem and NN in gem... I teach and can be very talkative.....

Oh, and the mercR is conj SN. Still working it all out. I do know when there is too much logic it becomes illogical, I learnt that the hard way if that counts.

FleaXXX

Saturn in the third.