My Method

Konrad

Account Closed
Bob, if you look at the top left of the charts it has the location listed as "Crieff", ignore that and use the co-ordinates underneath. Also the time of the charts are in GMT, so you'll have to remember to use that or adjust it for your own time-zone.
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Antikythera Mechanism

Well-known member
I have no ego about it. In fact I couldn't care less if no-one on the planet believes me it works, it is just a personal belief that the knowledge isn't mine to hold back from others and should be shared, hence I'm sharing it.

This is what makes Sports Astrology so much FUN! The whole idea of discovery and working on putting thoughts and ideas together to make an awesome conclusion to ideas brought forth by other astrologers.

Thank you Konrad for everything and thank you Goca for your pages on astrological team colors!
 

att75

Well-known member
Hi Konrad,

thanks for sharing your method.

Were you able to predict surprise results, underdogs beating faves? If yes, could you attach a chart + explanation of a game like this?

I've been experimenting with the game chart method as well, but without consistent results. (Thus at the moment I somewhat share Bob's skepticism.) But, I haven't used the antiscia of the sigs, only that of POF, so it just may be the trick. As for using colors, I've found the astrology of colors quite a mess, and during my last "phase" of game-chart-experiments, I gave the ascendant to the home team, regardless of colors. The results remained inconsistent... But, I'm going to try out your method during the weekend. :) And will report my questions and findings (if any).
 

Konrad

Account Closed
I have been able to predict underdogs beating favourites. Using my method though, there needs to be a couple of strong indications of a win for the underdog. I have been more successful predicting draws in these sorts of circumstances. I'll look out a chart I did last month which demonstrates this.
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Konrad

Account Closed
Ok, here's a game involving heavy favourites.

St. Mirren vs Rangers




St. Mirren:

- Kit: White with black stripes


Rangers:

- Kit: Blue with white shorts


I have no odds for this match as it was done so long ago and as my method was not so advanced, I had no use for them. However, anyone who knows Scottish football will know that Rangers and Celtic are the two dominant teams, so much so that they finish 1st and 2nd in the league almost every season and have won 94 league championships between them since the league was formed. St. Mirren are relegation battlers and will be judged accordingly.

The colours. St. Mirren are white and black. This fits Mercury in Capricorn. Rangers are therefore Jupiter in Pisces which also happens to fit their blue and white colouring.

St. Mirren:

- Mercury 24 42' Capricorn (5 18' Sagittarius)
- Saturn 4 08' Libra (25 52' Pisces)

Rangers:

- Jupiter 4 28' Pisces (25 32' Libra)
- The Sun 17 36' Aquarius (12 24' Scorpio)

The Moon: 23 53' Scorpio (6 17' Aquarius)

POF: 5 37' Aries (24 23' Virgo)


Firstly we look at placements. The Lord of the 4th, the Sun, is in the 10th cusp. I have found these sort of interactions (4th/10th) to be mute in the decision-making, even the Lord of the 1st or 7th being in the opponent's 10th house is limited in it's ability to affect the game. Here I will ignore it. There are no other placements.

Next we look to aspects. First thing we have is a sextile between the Moon and the antisca of the POF, this helps the ASC team and therefore St. Mirren. The next aspect is a sextile to Mercury, again helping St. Mirren. Finally, we have a minor testimony in the trine of the Moon to the antisca of Saturn, Lord of the 10th. Again, this helps St. Mirren.

Now, I judged this chart before I came to the conclusion not to start the teams equal, so I judged St. Mirren to win. A huge upset! This intrigued me, so I watched the game live and even though St. Mirren had plenty chances to fulfill my "prophecy" for them, they decided not to win that game. It ended a draw. In Hindsight (marvelous thing), I can see St. Mirren were in a strong position but not strong enough to win it.

If you are thorough in your analysis of the chart i.e the positions of antisca, aspects etc. then you've done the easy part and are much more geared towards the correct judgement. The difficulty lies in judging whether or not the poorer team receives enough of a boot up the back-side to overturn their starting handicap. As I have said, this is difficult at times and especially so when there is a huge favourite with the chart against them. The only way to deal with this is experience and therefore practice.

Again, I'll say it: I am not 100% accurate with this but when I go back and look at my mistakes, the picture becomes evermore clear and I become more confident it works.
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att75

Well-known member
Thx for this fine example. Yes, it's clear that Rangers surely were strong faves. And in this case, predicting that Rangers wouldn't win - nicely done!
 

Konrad

Account Closed
Yeah, this sort of thing is pretty handy if you bet on exchanges as you can bet on a team not winning which in this case would have been worth it.
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att75

Well-known member
Konrad said:
Remember, the nature of the aspect is important and that aspect must be an applying one. I'm sure I read somewhere that an aspect is considered exact until around 18 minutes of seperation, I have found that to be true in these charts. However the most I have seen is 13 minutes, that's not to say it isn't 18 minutes, I just havent seen it yet.

Hi Konrad,

I'm following Rangers-St.Mirren (this duo again... :) ) at the moment. The ASC is at 17LEO00 if I got the chart right. At first sight, I can't see anything very important, no planets near the angles, etc. Although, there are 2 aspects:

Moon-sextile-Saturn(L7) and Moon-trine-Mars(L10)

but these are separating! Does it mean that these aspects simply don't count?

There is one applying aspect though:

Antiscion-Moon-sextile-Venus(L4)

although it's almost 3 degrees wide.

Is there something I missed? I can't see anything that could be enough for St.Mirren not to lose the game. (It's 2:1 at the moment for Rangers.) BTW, I have a hard time assigning the ASC, neither team seems OK to be Leo/Sun, maybe I would give the DSC-Saturn to Rangers because their color is close the dark blue.
 

Bulletbobb

Well-known member
I haven't been following this too closely, but there is one thing you might want to keep in mind. There are far more significant or sensitive factors in astrology that we don't use than there are that we do use. Just because some factor isn't mentioned in Konrad's method, or any other, doesn't mean it/they may not be operating in a particular chart.

A couple of years ago when I was investigating Frawley's method I had a number of charts where the result just didn't fit the outcome as predicted. Now, in a situation like that I could have tried to force the result to fit the method, and I have no doubt that, had I looked hard enough, I would have found that the antiscion of Cupido was biquintile Fortuna, or some such rubbish. Instead, I did up the midpoints, and in several cases found appropriate midpoints right on the angles. I remember two or three where JU/UR was on the MC, one with SU/MA on the IC, and I think one with SA/PL on the DSC.

There is absolutely no reason why antiscia would be valid in a game chart and midpoints not. A priori, I would think it would be the other way around. Another possible factor would be some of the Arabic parts, like death, peril, etc.

I was in touch with a knowledgable sports astrologer some time ago who told me that separating aspects are valid in these charts, if they're close.

Just something to think about.

Regards,

Bob
 

Konrad

Account Closed
Well thanks for the constrcutive comments Bob. How would you suggest we use midpoints more accurately when we use only two main planets as significators or is this another naysayer post? Frawley's method is flawed as he starts the teams as equal when they are obviously not added to that he assigns the favourites the ASC no matter what.

Att75, I have also done this game. I have been experimenting with quincunxes and I have found them to work. In this chart (and almost every other chart for the 15.00 UK games) the Moon is quincunxing the POF, this helps the DSC team. I also assigned the DSC to Rangers. I know these quincunxes work now as I am looking at the results coming in from all over the UK and there is a pattern of the dark coloured teams getting victories or unexpected draws against lighter teams. I'm gonna post a couple of them tonight when I have the inclicnation to write it up.
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Konrad

Account Closed
Sorry, I forgot to reply about the aspects. I don't use seperating aspects if they are over somewhere around 18 minutes. I can't see an aspect between the antisca of Venus and the Moon on my chart, maybe you could post yours? I am trying these charts without using the Lords of the 4th and 7th for a time to see if I get good results but I will still use the relevant houses.
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Konrad

Account Closed
One more thing. Bob if you search the skyscript sports forums, I'm sure they have a couple of lengthy posts on using arabic parts in these charts. I have tried using the Part of Victory and Part of Success, I didn't see any effect.
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Bulletbobb

Well-known member
As I recall my thoughts about midpoints from two years ago, I concluded that the midpoints operated independant of rulerships. Obviously, having JU/UR on the MC would be favorable for the 1st house team, SA/PL the reverse.

You would have to experiment with the Arabic parts in a number of charts. No one factor is enough to decided a game on it's own. I suspect they would require rather small orbs. Fortuna has larger orbs because of the factors in it's makeup. At least some Arabic parts have been found valid in astrology in general, from which one can conclude that they should work in sports also. Trouble with any of these things is that once you open the door you're likely to get trampled by the horde of 'things' that come dashing out. That's why I never followed up on the midpoints idea. Which ones to use? Where to draw the line?

Why do you consider my posts to be in the naysayer category? Because I'm not a fan of the color method? If so, I have alot of company, as I don't know of anyone 'over here' that uses it. I'd even consider it myself if someone could get the color assignments somewhat in line with basic principles.

Time for lunch,

Bob
 

att75

Well-known member
Konrad said:
I can't see an aspect between the antisca of Venus and the Moon on my chart, maybe you could post yours?

My mistake: I meant antiscia of Moon 26CP01 - sextile - Venus 28PI52.

Konrad said:
I am trying these charts without using the Lords of the 4th and 7th for a time to see if I get good results but I will still use the relevant houses.

You mean without the lords of 4th and 10th?

Konrad said:
... a pattern of the dark coloured teams getting victories or unexpected draws against lighter teams. I'm gonna post a couple of them tonight when I have the inclicnation to write it up

I'm looking forward to it.
 

Konrad

Account Closed
I don't consider all your posts to be naysayer, just a couple.

I've never really looked into midpoints much so of course I've never tested them and though intriguing, I don't plan to any time soon. As you rightly say, when you introduce one new method into your existing set-up, you open alot of new doors and adding midpoints to the mix would, for sure, makes things too confusing for me just now.

I understand your concerns about using colour and I have had problems with it myself but funnily enough not for the reasons you may have. It drives me insane when a team play in a kit that they don't usually play in or I have bad information on their colours; it ruins everything.

As to some principles, it isn't as hard as you may think. Try not to be over-awed by it. Each planet goes against one other all of the time (apart from Saturn which goes against the Sun and the Moon). This makes it much easier. The planets all take some time to go through their current signs too (I don't use the Moon as a significator) so there is ample opportunity to get it right. Another thing is that even though in a perfect world both planets match both teams, we only need one to match up. The other is assigned by default. In general:

Sun vs Saturn: we're looking for light vs dark repectively. Sun does represent red, yellow, gold, purple and Saturn black, brown, dark green but if I had a light blue and a blood red I can be almost certain that the Sun is the light colour and the Saturn the dark.

Mercury vs Jupiter: Mercury is rather mutable, so it takes on the colours of it's current sign alot. It is white and yellow. Jupiter is expansive and vibrant and so are it's kits. Bright reds, deep blues, purples. Again though, each planet's characteristics can be found in the relevant kits. Black may not fit either planet strictly, it is more likely to be Mercury as black doesn't scream expansion or vibrance to me. You often get red vs blue in football matches. In this case they are both Jupiter colours but looking at the nature of them, red is more vibrant and more akin to Jupiter than Mercury.

Venus vs Mars: Calm vs intensity. These selections are pretty simple. Colour-wise Venus is soft and gentle while Mars is deep, dark and intense.

While I do admit I get some wrong at times, this is a simple method once you practice it and think "outside the box". The colours don't have to be 100% matched to what you've got on paper but each planet has a flavour, a feel, as does each kit. It's just a case of matching them up and as I said, it takes around a month for the quickest planets to move through a sign so you have plenty of time to see how that sign affects the selection.
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Konrad

Account Closed
My mistake: I meant antiscia of Moon 26CP01 - sextile - Venus 28PI52.



You mean without the lords of 4th and 10th?



I'm looking forward to it.


We don't move antisca towards planets, only planets towards antisca.

Yes, without them. I am wondering how much effect they actually have. The placements of planets on the cusps have an effect, I sure, but I'm not so sure about the Lords. The thing is though, to know for sure I need many games kicking off in the same area at the same time to really test it and sometimes that takes a while.
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fensi88

Well-known member
One more thing. Bob if you search the skyscript sports forums, I'm sure they have a couple of lengthy posts on using arabic parts in these charts. I have tried using the Part of Victory and Part of Success, I didn't see any effect.
Do you work with them as points, or doing with their dispositors? In "normal" horary chart it is dispositor that counts.
 
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