House System Insanity!!! Please help.....

astrologer50, see my more detailed thoughts about your challenge to the Placidus fans re: your similar post on the equal house thread.

But basically, the 2nd house isn't always "the money house." For someone with an Aquarius stellium, the house of "valuables" may be the house of values, or of "what you value."

Also, do you have a high-latitude birth, such that Placidus compresses most of your houses but expands others?

waybread said:

astrologer50, see my more detailed thoughts about your challenge to the Placidus fans re: your similar post on the equal house thread.

But basically, the 2nd house isn't always "the money house." For someone with an Aquarius stellium, the house of "valuables" may be the house of values, or of "what you value."

Also, do you have a high-latitude birth, such that Placidus compresses most of your houses but expands others?

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Dont think so born UK. There has to be other explanations other than 'what you value' connected to 2nd house, cos I have 3planets conj in taurus, so my self worth/value is fine, ok but not overly important, BUT 4th house matters are very important to me, cos that's where i function.......

How can just cancer (empty house) ruling 4th house, totally explain away the FACT that i've never really escaped home roots, family matters and now being a mature lady will be taking on a young step family. Again, all to do with family, bringing up family, seeing to needs of family, working from home, studying from home, never really leaving home roots.....????

Astrologer50, I can't doubt your personal experience and your feeling that the equal house system works best for you. Am just wondering whether Placidus does give you ultra-skewed houses. As you know, this is common with high-latitude births but I am not sure that it is restricted to them.

Also, I tend to place a lot of emphasis on aspects. I don't know if your Taurean planets square or oppose other planets, but if they do, that may explain a few things.

Then there's the moon, which also symbolizes home and maternal matters. Is your moon strongly placed in your chart? If the moon is the accidental ruler of your 4th house under Placidus, then it might reinforce your being a homebody, even if the 4th is untenanted.

Children might be a 5th house matter..... Where's your sun at?

I feel as though you have a pretty negative and material impression of the 2nd house and are at pains not to identify with it, but that might just by my impression!

waybread said:

Astrologer50, I can't doubt your personal experience and your feeling that the equal house system works best for you. Am just wondering whether Placidus does give you ultra-skewed houses. As you know, this is common with high-latitude births but I am not sure that it is restricted to them.

Also, I tend to place a lot of emphasis on aspects. I don't know if your Taurean planets square or oppose other planets, but if they do, that may explain a few things.

Then there's the moon, which also symbolizes home and maternal matters. Is your moon strongly placed in your chart? If the moon is the accidental ruler of your 4th house under Placidus, then it might reinforce your being a homebody, even if the 4th is untenanted.

Children might be a 5th house matter..... Where's your sun at?

I feel as though you have a pretty negative and material impression of the 2nd house and are at pains not to identify with it, but that might just by my impression!

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Moon in Aries in 3rd (equal house) moves to 2nd placidus, But dont have emotional need to earn my own money, dont have high values and beliefs that others around me have to live upto.Sun taurus, venus conj, merc conj all taurus in 4th. ALL move to 2nd house with placidus. Well its not that i'm at pains not to identify with 2nd house but how can I?? nothing seems to fit and i cannot identify with it, but can with all 4th house matters.......

Again, Astrologer50, once you let go of the concept that the 2nd house is only about money, your may find that you identify with particular values as per the sign on the house cusp and its ruler. Clearly you've expressed a value through your life as being anchored to your home--and the moon also symbolizes the home and maternity. "Values" isn't about "high values that others have to live up to"--one's values are simply one's values.

The 4th, as you know, also includes real estate, agriculture & gardening, elderly people, and public buildings. I don't know how well you identify with these. I would look to the 5th house regarding children.

But have it your way!

charmvirgo said:

My exact question to the oracle was “As above, so below – means equal house?” and this is the answer:

SAGITTARIUS 9 - A MOTHER LEADS HER SMALL CHILD STEP BY STEP UP THE STAIRS

The answer is cryptic:
The mother and child represent the as above so below idea.

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I think there is a "typo" here: A MOTHER LEADS HER SMALL CHILD STEP BY STEP UP TO THE STARS...

I very much like this image. And as you know, this actually gives the answer: zodiac signs limits that we use aren't the same as constellation borders. Our zodiac signs have 30 degrees whereas the constellations are irregular. So what? astrologers still consider equal zodiac signs for their practice.

Maybe we should do the same for houses? Let us be lead by the example of the houses of heaven (zodiac signs) and do the same for the houses on earth? I'm clearly preaching equal houses here...and yet I'm not fully understanding the reasons behind this...

Radu said:

I think there is a "typo" here: A MOTHER LEADS HER SMALL CHILD STEP BY STEP UP TO THE STARS...

I very much like this image. And as you know, this actually gives the answer: zodiac signs limits that we use aren't the same as constellation borders. Our zodiac signs have 30 degrees whereas the constellations are irregular. So what? astrologers still consider equal zodiac signs for their practice.

Maybe we should do the same for houses? Let us be lead by the example of the houses of heaven (zodiac signs) and do the same for the houses on earth? I'm clearly preaching equal houses here...and yet I'm not fully understanding the reasons behind this...

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...actually according to Rudhyars book on the Sabian Symbols it is; "A MOTHER LEADS HER SMALL CHILD STEP BY STEP UP A STEEP STAIRWAY."

...It should be remembered that both Marc Edmond Jones and Dane Rudhyar altered some of the symbols, from the way the clairvoyant channel, Elsie Wheeler originally 'SAW' these images...sometimes I think the symbols should be all presented as Miss Wheeler saw them and any attempts that have been made to alter them should be added as a footnote in their listing...I'm most particularly aware of the change to the symbol for Gemini 16* from it's original envisionment by Elsie...I think that Elsies' image is much more pliant in its' application to most utilizations of interpretation concerning this degree of the Zodiac...at least that has been my experience to date...apparently it was changed to be more 'Politically or Socially Correct'...

Anyway, back to topic then. It would be interesting if ANYBODY else on this forum, has Sun, Moon, Venus and/or merc in second houes to give their opinions of how these planets operate in their lives.

How come no one in placidus accepts my version of 4th house matters? Why can't you see how Equal works perfectly well for me? I am open to persuasion, but only if they connect me to 4th house matters..........

waybread said:

Again, Astrologer50, once you let go of the concept that the 2nd house is only about money, your may find that you identify with particular values as per the sign on the house cusp and its ruler. Clearly you've expressed a value through your life as being anchored to your home--and the moon also symbolizes the home and maternity. "Values" isn't about "high values that others have to live up to"--one's values are simply one's values.

The 4th, as you know, also includes real estate, agriculture & gardening, elderly people, and public buildings. I don't know how well you identify with these. I would look to the 5th house regarding children.

But have it your way!

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planets in signs take precedent over house cusps and are modified in house by sign on cusp, plus natural house meanings. A synthesis of all. I have never felt the urge to pay my way, earn my own crust. As long as there is food in fridge and bills somehow paid, that's fine.

In placidus Aries rules 2nd, mars in 5th gemini. only 1in air + Asc but 4planets in air houses(Equal). 4planets earth, 3 in 4th house of cancer......(equal)

You are asking me to identify more with Aries/Mars in my chart than what exactly? my sun, moon, venus, merc are you saying just Mars is going to override these???

Oh yes am keen gardener, had my own allotment, like most taureans like rockeries......

Well, I feel like we have come full circle here!

Radu, I liked your comment but I personally don't find anything "written in stone" or "in the stars" about the number 30 degrees. It is a longstanding convention that seems to work, but I have difficulty taking it further for any logical reason. [Sorry--I'm more the Uranian than the Neptunian!] An intriguing if only suggestive book about using actual constellations of varying width on the ecliptic is: John Lash, Quest for the Zodiac. Apparently there are also downloadable astrology programs on the Internet that allow people to plot their horoscopes onto the actual constellations. Lash gives a table of degrees that would allow one to do that manually.

Astrologer50--So long as you remain unwilling to consider the 2nd house beyond money or unrealistic values, we will just have to "agree to disagree." But here is a quote from one of my favourite astrologers, Steven Forrest, The Changing Sky, on the 2nd house: "the behavioural territory in which we prove ourselves to ourselves, and support our identity with appropriate mental and physical resources."

So a moon in the 2nd might very well be someone who supports her identity through being a mother and housewife. Until recent decades, so many British women "supported themselves" by being married to men who brought home the income that it is hard to say how or why the concept of self-employment in the 2nd should be a key word for the 2nd. The sign on the cusp of the second, or of any planets in the second should show how you make your money: not whether or not you have a paycheck, unless other chart factors support it. I would see employment more as a 6th or 10th house matter.
The more I do astrology, the less I think signs matter as much as aspects between planets and house cusp rulers. I see signs as indicating "how" or in what manner" a planet operates, not "what" it does (planet's nature) or "where" it operates (house). Maybe I've heard from too many siderealists. Of course a sideral chart will change the house cusps, but fundamentally working with "accidental" house cusp rulers gets us back to looking at aspects.

My big problem with equal houses is that I find it harder to work with the angles imbedded in houses; and they do away with intercepted houses. I used to totally ignore intercepted houses, but now I think they have interpretive value.

But again, to each his/her own!

waybread, yes i think we will have to disagree, but why just for one minute can you not accept my planets in 4th equal house or at least give them credance or house room???

As you know we are not just talking about the moon in my case but Sun, and venus also. Three major astrological lights, moon, sun, venus here.....

astrologer50 said:

waybread, yes i think we will have to disagree, but why just for one minute can you not accept my planets in 4th equal house or at least give them credance or house room???

As you know we are not just talking about the moon in my case but Sun, and venus also. Three major astrological lights, moon, sun, venus here.....

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Astrologer50, as I have stated repeatedly, you are welcome to whatever house system you feel works best for you. Hopefully this is a courtesy that you now extend to others. Hey, I am an Aquarian, with sun trine Uranus. Destabilizing fixed notions of identity can let in a breath of fresh air, I say!

Still feel it would be great for research, analaysis if other members with SUN, MOON, VENUS, MERCURY IN 2ND WOULD CONTRIBUTE with their thoughts and interpretations????

waybread, pls also remember I'm Aquarius rising with chart ruler conj Sun/moon midpoint.....

It's just cos so little people here either use or follow EQUAL house i get frustrated when people cannot even stand in my shoes or see my viewpoint either......

I know someone who is very determined to use Equal House system. It is Emilyelizabeth. Try find some of her threads. I saw her last in the thread about the birth certificate legality of Obama.
Barack Obama's Birth Certificate Data is Invalid

She might have one of those planets in the 2nd. Just a thought.
I dont have planets in my second so I cannot help you here.

astrologer50 said:

Still feel it would be great for research, analaysis if other members with SUN, MOON, VENUS, MERCURY IN 2ND WOULD CONTRIBUTE with their thoughts and interpretations????

waybread, pls also remember I'm Aquarius rising with chart ruler conj Sun/moon midpoint.....

It's just cos so little people here either use or follow EQUAL house i get frustrated when people cannot even stand in my shoes or see my viewpoint either......

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With equal house I have sun and mars in 2cnd and merc at 23 deg aries is on the 2cnd house cusp (26deg aries)
With placidus 2cnd house cusp moves back to 20 deg aries so my saturn at 17 deg aries and north node at 18 deg also join merc sun and mars in 2cnd.
I use koch, which gives a 2cnd house cusp of 25deg aries.
Personally im not sure what to make of it. I dont really feel my sun that much except when someone gets all up in my grill but i know that its not about money for me. I mean i like it but its not a focus. Resources...now that i can relate to. Ive had a couple of jobs related to resource management and i am very very self reliant. I dont trust anyone to do stuff for me unless its something thats not important to me. Im very bad with money, I can write fantastic budgets i just dont stick to them. I can be very inconsistent and extremely determined i just wish i could be consistently determined

P.S Im not very good when it comes to delineating my own chart

Caprising,
"When someone has the moon in the 3rd, ones thoughts and emotions are usually intertwined, thus I would conclude (sounding scientific arn't I ) that your emotional and mental drives are both a very strong influence in your day to day life."

Well isn't everybodies emotional and mental drives intertwined, cos how can you separate them out?? of course anyones thoughts and emotions are going to influence our everyday lives, but in my case..... not overly though...

Aries moon 28' conj 4th house cusp, so really its more affecting 4th house matters than 3rd.

rogue, have you tried to see if you can identify with Equal house or is it just a no go? Would you consider your 2nd house planets weak and hard to identify with?

Starlink
thanks for recommending Emilyelizabeth. found her posts and she's into Whole house, not Equal house....

gesso said:

I feel so frustrated right now. If i cant figure this out, i am seriously going to throw my laptop out the window. It gives me such a headache.
There has to be ONE of these that works for me right?

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It is obvious from this thread you could either have a 7th or 8th house Saturn. If you really want to be accurate, study the characteristics of Saturn in both houses. You could even study past transitting aspects to both Saturn in the 7th and 8th. Which ever one seems to sound more like you, would show the kind of chart you probably need to be reffering to.

astrologer50 said:

Well isn't everybodies emotional and mental drives intertwined, cos how can you separate them out?? of course anyones thoughts and emotions are going to influence our everyday lives, but in my case..... not overly though...

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Hi astro50, i dont think everyones emotional and mental drives are intertwined. I know mine arent. I have a cappy moon which is square my aries sun and loosley square my aries merc. I really struggle with my instinctive(emotional) drives and my mental (sun and merc) drives. My kids (and others) have said that they think im angry at them when i respond to them at times. This is especially the case when the response is emotive. If i am focused and in my thinking mode my responses and tone are very different. I had to sit my kids down and explain to them that when i am 'in' my head concentrating on something and get distracted to deal with an emotional issue that sometimes my "mummy spirit" forgets shes a mummy and acts like a "boss". I had to explain that when im in my serious time i find it hard switch to loving kind mummy. I have always encouraged my children to speak openly so if there is any doubt as to whether i am cross with them they simply ask me "mummy are you mad at me" which reminds me to focus on them and switch drives. I would love to be able to intergrate these two squared drives but I dont know if anyone can rewrite their instinctive responses.


astro50 you asked

rogue, have you tried to see if you can identify with Equal house or is it just a no go? Would you consider your 2nd house planets weak and hard to identify with?

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I have tried a little astro but the problem i have with my own chart is i just cant seperate out the planets/houses and influences as they relate to me.
I know that placidus doesnt work well for my location. It pushes the house cusps back by 6 deg putting saturn, north node, merc, sun and mars all in 2cnd. Mars in taur in 2cnd I get, i am concerned with financial matters and accrueing financial stability BUt i will not put that ahead of the needs of my children, i almost never spend money on myself but can be overly generous with those i love, in fact i get a real kick out of spending on my kids and friends so money as such isnt important. The sun is weak at 29deg 40' aries in 2cnd and mercury is far more relevant in 1st house (as you would have guessed ) Mentally I process the world according to how it affects me. If it doesnt affect me personally then i am able to put myself in others shoes to feel how they feel etc. I am a very first house person in that i am very self orientated but its in a very disciplined manner. I am constantly checking my motives, analysing why i do what i do and endeavouring to be responsible and just at every turn. I would have to say that my strongest focus is 1st house and 2cnd house affairs of self esteem and personal resources. There is no doubt that i have lessons to be learned with 2cnd house stuff. The main prob astro50 is that my 1st and 2cnd houses are so intertwined and full that regardless of house system, it is difficult to say what fits where at times.

Oh o. I came here looking for some guidance and find even very experienced astrologers have the same problem. So this ongoing...even at the top.

I have; Virgo Pisces Scorpio
Placidus Moon in 3rd Venus 9th Pluto 5th
Equal/Whole Moon in 2nd Venus 8th Pluto 4th

I'm afraid I'm having as much trouble as anyone else on here.

My Venus moves back and forth between the 8th house and the 9th house. I tried to use that as a focus, to discover which describes me better. But nothing really helps.

Placidus interpretations seem most accurate for me, despite my believing the others are simpler and I respect their origin hence my search. Is there a list of names of eminent astrologers and house system preferred?

My Venus moves back and forth between the 8th house and the 9th house. I tried to use that as a focus, to discover which describes me better. But nothing really helps.

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Try looking at the rulers of the houses. They tell Venus what to do. So first look at ruler 8, then ruler 9. Maybe the difference in those houses will give you more of a clue to yourself. Where does that Venus play out best for your feelings? In one of the houses of the ruler of Venus. Try it.