Need help with triplicities, Don't understand!!

hiimnotcool

hiimnotcool

Well-known member
Just keep in mind that well placed Trigons aren't everything.

My primary and secondary trigons are both anguar (whole sign and placidus so it's easy for me lol) and one of them is in dignity. My Moon is in the 11th house so it's well placed also. My life hasn't been that great so far. I have been diagnosed with a personality disorder, was kicked out of the military and have been unable to work for the last year all while living with my mom at the age of 24.

I will say though that regardless of all the hardships I have had things tend to work out for me one way or another.
 
Vista

Vista

Well-known member
So I was thinking WHY I am such a lucky person. And then I thought that maybe the final dispositor of my chart determines in fact more my life than my sect triplicity ruler. Mars in Scorpio (and when going the modern way: ruled by Pluto in Leo, ruled by Sun in Taurus ruled by Venus in Aries ruled by Mars in Aries). So traditionally as well as modernly, Mars rules my life. And Mars is very strong and trines MC, conjuncts Venus, modernly trines Pluto and sextiles Uranus. The only minor aspect is the inconjunct with the Moon, but traditionally inconjuncts were not used were they?.

Does anyone think that this could be the "sect overruling" reason for good luck in both parts of the life?[/QUOTE]

I hope so, because the final sect triplicity ruler of my life is Mars in Leo, which is unaspected, RX, and cadent in the 6th(I am Diurnal)!! Ack!
 
Amy Vir Sn Ari Mn Pis Ris

Amy Vir Sn Ari Mn Pis Ris

Well-known member
I want to thank Joseph for taking the time to write this out so clearly. I have printed it out and am keeping it as a reference. I have a wonderful friend who has been teaching me Hellenistic for years. I grasp some things and dwell on others. This helped with Trigon lords.

Thank you!
 
Amy Vir Sn Ari Mn Pis Ris

Amy Vir Sn Ari Mn Pis Ris

Well-known member
I was wondering HOW YOU TELL WHICH 3rd of life you're in?
I am age 54 so I know I'm past my first 3rd of life. lol. So I would guess
that I am in my 2nd third of life. I wonder if Saturn returns define the portion of life we're in? But that would give everybody pretty long lives and that's not the typical average.....at least it wasn't in Lilly's day and age.

And when we're looking at these Trigon Lords do we do that with all the planets and luminaries and rising? And part of fortune, etc. ?

What's the standard I guess is what I am asking....when delineating a chart?
 
D

dr. farr

Well-known member
The ancients (Valens for one) used a life-span model based on 120 years (!) So, if following this model, first third would be to 40, second from 40 to 80.
Later Western (and Vedic) authorities used a model based to a 75 year life span; here the first third would be to 25, second from 25 to 50, third from 50 to 75.
Which do I use (when involved with making related calculations or delineations)? I follow the more ancient model-120 years.
 
D

dr. farr

Well-known member
It would be a night trigonal lord in a nocturnal chart, so that would not be a special consideration (unless we went into the complex issue of planetary sect, but that's another matter which, actually, I MYSELF don't give much attention to)
Rx though means (to my understanding) self-conflicted, defiant, rebellious, qualities along these lines; most authorities also say the planet is weak when rx, but I myself cannot agree with this generalization (in Vedic astrology rx means a stronger, more potent influence!)
 
Vista

Vista

Well-known member
dr. farr said:
The ancients (Valens for one) used a life-span model based on 120 years (!) So, if following this model, first third would be to 40, second from 40 to 80.
Later Western (and Vedic) authorities used a model based to a 75 year life span; here the first third would be to 25, second from 25 to 50, third from 50 to 75.
Which do I use (when involved with making related calculations or delineations)? I follow the more ancient model-120 years.
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Wow, that's a relief!! My final sect ruler was in terrible shape! Glad to know I most likely won't be around for it!
 
Wames

Wames

Well-known member
dr. farr said:
It would be a night trigonal lord in a nocturnal chart, so that would not be a special consideration (unless we went into the complex issue of planetary sect, but that's another matter which, actually, I MYSELF don't give much attention to)
Rx though means (to my understanding) self-conflicted, defiant, rebellious, qualities along these lines; most authorities also say the planet is weak when rx, but I myself cannot agree with this generalization (in Vedic astrology rx means a stronger, more potent influence!)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info, Dr. Farr! I was wondering about an Rx trigon lord.

My first trigon lord is a Leo Sun in the 11th house, Hayz and conjunct Regulus by 1.5 degree. But I was a little concerned with the second one, Jupiter Rx. It's out of sect, 6th house (whole signs...wish I could use regio or plac and keep it in the 5th!) but in its own domicile Pisces. I've been imagining some doomsday scenarios with a relatively weaker 2nd lord placement and being Rx.
 
Amy Vir Sn Ari Mn Pis Ris

Amy Vir Sn Ari Mn Pis Ris

Well-known member
Thanks for being so informative Dr. Farr.

Now.....supposedly the Sun above the horizon is diurnal chart and best in terms of sect.....and joys in the 9th which is a cadent house? That confuses me.
 
O

Olivia

Well-known member
The 9th house is the house of the God, so it makes sense the Sun joys there.

It's also not a cadent-from-the-ascendant-house, at least not in whole sign, and that's the measure.

But here's the deal on the 'cadent' houses. 3, 6, 9, and 12 are all a bit unfortunate for the native, though 3 and 9 are still good houses.

The 3rd is the house of the Goddess, which tends to produce interpreters of dreams and oracles. The 9th is the house of the God, which tends to produce priests. In both cases, your life isn't completely your own, because you're given to the Goddess or the God. This is why Moon joys in 3 and Sun in 9.

If you accept your fate (I'd want to see more than a Sun-sign, the houses would have to be stacked somehow) they really aren't that bad. It's not about bringing harm to the native in either case, but - you do have an obligation.

The 6th house is bad things that happen to you that aren't your fault, slavery, illness, and truly does not see the ascendant - very unfortunate for the native, and Mars joys there. The 12th is self-undoing, imprisonment, secret enemies, and illness again - also most unfortunate to the native and the joy of Saturn.

The 8th is another that doesn't see the ascendant, and that's - death, debt, fears, loss, bad stuff again. 2 doesn't see the ascendant and gets mixed reviews - some traditional sources think it's fine - it's where you make money - but at the very least it's a reminder that the ascendant doesn't see the second house and that means money isn't really in your control.

Even 7 (because it opposes the ascendant) and 4 (the end of things, the grave, amongst other meanings) are a bit mixed, and not entirely good - though they aren't too bad for most people.
 
Amy Vir Sn Ari Mn Pis Ris

Amy Vir Sn Ari Mn Pis Ris

Well-known member
I was considering that thought process using whole house signs. But I don't understand what you're saying still. (So much for having Mercury in Virgo. lol.)

So say a person is Aries rising with Sun in Sag in the 9th....the sun would joy there. Sun in fire is at home and in sect.....yet still a cadent 9th house which takes some of it's power YET the sun joys there. So I am thinking what you're saying is that ONLY the Sun really joys there and for the rest it would be cadent?

I still don't get WHY the Sun would joy in the 9th house. I get that it's a God house (and I appreciate that being religious minded myself)

And for a person who is religious minded, or philosophy minded or even loves international traveling....I don't see that being bad. I get the 12th house negativity THO I work for a big hospital and my solar returns show 12th house emphasis since I started working here. It hasn't been bad tho...not optimal but not bad either. lol. I like coming to work each day. I work for a great group of Doc's and folks.

It is said to be best to have malefics in a cadent house to deflect the damage that they could otherwise cause. My natal Saturn is in my whole 9th house (in Scorpio) but otherwise at the end of my 8th but still considered 9th house using placidius even tho I see it in the 8th. Using Hellenistic it's even in Saturn's bounds.

My 6th house has Uranus and Pluto there in Leo but using Hellenistic they are not counted since they aren't personal planets.

Still trying to figure this out. lol.
 
O

Olivia

Well-known member
The sun is the representation of the manifestation of God, 9 is God's house, so that's where the sun joys - the representation of the manifestation of God joys in God's house. Same for 3 and Goddess.

Does that help any?
 
Amy Vir Sn Ari Mn Pis Ris

Amy Vir Sn Ari Mn Pis Ris

Well-known member
Olivia said:
The sun is the representation of the manifestation of God, 9 is God's house, so that's where the sun joys - the representation of the manifestation of God joys in God's house. Same for 3 and Goddess.
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Olivia said:
Does that help any?
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I understand that part. It's the cadent house that is supposed to make it ineffective or less effective that confuses me. lol.

I know Vedic places a very high status on the 9th house. It's where all our blessings are shown. But India is a very religious country too so sometimes I think it's a cultural thing. As with Western astrology we know that Venus and Saturn do not go well together and with Vedic it's the sign of a successful marriage. Endurance I can see but is there also happiness and joy involved?

My interests these days are both Hellenistic and Vedic and I see the benefit of both. But with Western I see my rising fit and with Vedic I see other things fit. As usual the Virgo in me wants one tidy answer and life doesn't seem fit to give me that. ahahaha. (I realize that's because many different beliefs can still often lead to the same sort of conclusion)
 
O

Olivia

Well-known member
Okay, I'm coming down with flu, but I'll try again. Why is 9 cadent? It isn't cadent from the ascendant, it trines it.

It's cadent from the MC, which is the pinnacle of worldly success - that's what 9 is cadent (literally, falling away) from.

So it's not likely going to help you make a lot of money, but that's not the focus of 9 for most people, unless their 2 ruler happens to be posited there. But in general, it's the house of religion, higher learning, prophecy, dreams, pilgrimages, and the like.
 
D

dr. farr

Well-known member
Olivia has given a good explanation of the dynamics involved (as usual!)
The thing that makes a cadent house is that it falls away from a pivot (from an angular house)-the ancients called these houses "declines"; planets in them were considered to be less influential than planets in succedents, and those in succedents less so than in the angles (pivots as they used to be called) But then there were other qualifying factors involved, such as a planet being in its "joy"-the joys of the planets goes back to the earliest Greco/Roman times. Remember also that the place (now called "house") of the planet, and whether in its joy (the opposite place/house of the joy of a planet was called that planet's "sorrow") are ACCIDENTAL dignities/debilities, and therefore are a secondary consideration to the ESSENTIAL dignity or debility of the planet, and all of these factors must be balanced when coming to a final estimation of the strength/influence of the planet.
Also remember that the "meaning" of the places ("houses") for the Greco/Roman astrologers were much more limited than they have become over the centuries: the original "basic" meanings can be found in Manilius "Astronomica" (14 AD), and also note that if using a Fortunata chart, each of the 12 sections have a different indication/affinity than the "regular" (raw data horoscopic) chart has. And of course ALL of these considerations are based on the only house system they used (for horoscopes) prior to 500 AD, the whole sign house format. I wonder how really accurate houses constructed by quadrant systems are vis a vis the original house/quality allocations made by the ancients? But that's another (and very complex) question...
 
Vista

Vista

Well-known member
SniperBomber328 said:
My question is how long do the periods last for each planet?
Do they each have different lengths in how long they last?
I realize that many use Saturn's length (30 years), but I have seen some poeple deny this, so that's the part that confuses me.

Like me as an example, am a Diurnal Chart, so I focus on where my Sun is found. It is in the First House, in a Water Sign (Scorpio), meaning that my first part of life is Ruled by Venus, then Mars, and then my Moon?

Venus is in Libra, and afflicted by the 3rd House (Neptune:conjunct:Uranus), but in Domicile. Furthermore, it is in the First Decante, and placed in the 12th House, which is ruled by Pisces, so in Exaltation in the 12th House?

My early years have been complicating, suggested by the affliction of the 3rd house, due to my woes and stuff, and like Uranus suggests, it has been how a person would say, extremely weird!

That's where I get confused though, when does the period of Venus end, and Mars begin. Sometimes I feel like Mars began already since my life has gotten better, and my Mars is in better condition than Venus.

My Mars is in Domicile Scorpio, found in the 1st House, and in Conjunct Pluto and Mercury. Trine Moon, sextile Uranus and Neptune as well. The only bad affliction is from Saturn in the 4th House. But I don't think it is so significant. It is also in the First Decante, and in it's own House.

Also the supportive one is my Moon, which isn't badly placed since there is like no affliction towards my moon. It is trine Pluto, Mercury and Mars, Sextile Uranus and Neptune, Bi-Quintile Jupiter, and not in fall or detriment since my moon is in 5th House, Pisces.
It is the 3rd Decante, and not in fall or detriment, as it is not in the 6th, or 3rd(?) house.

Having said that, and gearing back towards my previous question.
What are the lengths, phases, call-it-what-you-wish for each planet?
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If your Sun is in the 1st house or below the horizon, then the Moon is the luminary in charge of the chart and making it Norturnal.
 
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