Why am I noticing that Virgos....

are a little on the manipulative side? I have also noticed that they are selfish and like control. I have met a few that are troublemakers. Aren't virgos supposed to strive to help others? All I am noticing is that they strive to help themselves and they really do not have the ability to look outside of their own perspective.

The only thing I can think of is that virgo is the last sign of the first six "all about me" signs, so perhaps the selfishness is more potent with them?


Before I get yelled at, I have mercury in virgo and vertex in virgo, but I am noticing this with Virgo sun people.

Marinka

Sounds like some sign bashing going on .... let me guess ... have you recently broken up with a Virgo as that is usually what brings on one of these types of threads ...

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I wonder, my, my my, why so many true astrologers who based their work upon early sources rather than many of the trendy authors of the past century, why they used terms like 'impedited', 'afflicted', 'adverse aspects', 'badly aspected', etc., and in analyzing any chart should we note the hard stuff or just sugar-coat it or 'sweep it under the rug' where everyone will never take offense even if the stars yell if not scream what the aspect is saying in such a loud form?

That is why I tell those I serve, "DO NOT get mad at me when I show you or tell you things you hate about yourself that you well know I could not know since our astrology relationship is the only one we have had.."

Anne3

Why am I noticing that Virgos....
are a little on the manipulative side? I have also noticed that they are selfish and like control. I have met a few that are troublemakers. Aren't virgos supposed to strive to help others? All I am noticing is that they strive to help themselves and they really do not have the ability to look outside of their own perspective.

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Even though Linda Goodman isn't known to preach Tradition her 'love signs related books' echoed this loud!

Virgo takes care of themselves but generally, unless other factors in the map show 'they can't see the forest for the trees'

And great astrologer mentor of mine, who is a virgo sun, stated after my relationship with a certain virgo in my last post on the prior thread "We Virgos are itches", of course he didn't say itch if you get my drift!



But think about it is there a sign in the sky more womanly than virgo, the Madonna with child with the shred of grain in her other hand that is not hold her immaculately conceived babe?

Anne3

The only thing I can think of is that virgo is the last sign of the first six "all about me" signs, so perhaps the selfishness is more potent with them?

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Not quite the baby there Aries resembles or the selfishness and greed of Capricorn but that late lady I spoke of in prior thread her chart yelled this trait!

But then there are MANY FACTORS in a horoscope as all virgos are not the same!

According to Julia and Derek Parker's The Compleat Astrologer, the following is the epitome myth of virgoans:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2n9358zVHwM

venuschild said:

Marinka



I wonder, my, my my, why so many true astrologers who based their work upon early sources rather than many of the trendy authors of the past century, why they used terms like 'impedited', 'afflicted', 'adverse aspects', 'badly aspected', etc., and in analyzing any chart should we note the hard stuff or just sugar-coat it or 'sweep it under the rug' where everyone will never take offense even if the stars yell if not scream what the aspect is saying in such a loud form?

That is why I tell those I serve, "DO NOT get mad at me when I show you or tell you things you hate about yourself that you well know I could not know since our astrology relationship is the only one we have had.."

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Native American Legends, Two Wolves, A Cherokee Legend

An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life. "A fight is going on inside me," he said to the boy.
"It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil - he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego." He continued, "The other is good - he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith. The same fight is going on inside you - and inside every other person, too."
The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, "Which wolf will win?"
The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed."

Marinka

Native American Legends, Two Wolves, A Cherokee Legend

An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life. "A fight is going on inside me," he said to the boy.
"It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil - he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego." He continued, "The other is good - he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith. The same fight is going on inside you - and inside every other person, too."
The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, "Which wolf will win?"
The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed."

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Yep, actor Tommy Lee Jones stated the same thing in:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0338188/



She is not your negative Virgo, Sophia...but like all of us she has an ugly side!

Isn't Sophia loren a libra?

Also, I am not saying ALL virgos are like what I described....but many that I have come across. Calculating, vengeful, selfish, troublemakers but in a very subtle way.

Virgo is not that bad of a Sign I don't think I would be able to date someone with a large amount of planets here but they are nice conversationalists and I too like analyzing things the problem is these people are overly private and and kind of paranoid until they get to know you. Then you have them being the opposite of what I love about Pisces (especially Ascendant or Jupiter) they care a huge amount about appearance and can be judgemental unlike Pisces they focus on manners to the point its hard to be yourself. Where as Pisces doesn't judge. They are good with helping people and doing good things for others this is a plus for virgo.

Its kind of up or down but thing is it would be a little hard to date this sign or have a best friend here if they insist people be a certain way. Some don't thats great but I Have an experience that tells me a lot of them do. I love Pisces and Sagittarius both though they don't judge and are easy to be yourself around. Overall virgo intends to be a good person and help and serve others and do detail work no one else would want to do though this I think makes them mostly good people.

I kind of understand what you mean. I don't think Virgos are intentionally that way, they just tend to get caught up in details and miss the big picture.

My Dad has Sun in Virgo and Leo Ascendant. He left my Mom to marry another woman who came from a wealthy family. However, he kept on inviting my Mom to family gatherings and trying to include her, as if he didn't understand why she might feel awkward.

He also wasn't around much, but he would always send us checks beyond what child support required, and even tried to make things up to me by buying expensive gifts. He seemed to have it in his mind that money/stuff could replace love.

Another problem he had was that he would criticize people until they felt like dirt, and think he was being helpful/constructive. Both my Mom and his new wife reported that he would always criticize their cooking/homemaking skills and point out how he could do better, and it made them feel like less of a wife. He would also get hung up on little things, like insisting everyone eat at the table or that meals be cooked at home. He didn't like it if his wife didn't feel like cooking and we went out to eat. Unless it was his treat to the family, then it was fine.

One of the worst things he did was when he tried to get custody of me because he found out I was being homeschooled. He hired the most powerful attorneys he could, made sure I was kept out of the courtroom, and monitored all my phone calls with my Mom looking for things he could use as evidence in court. In the end, he had her $10,000 in debt, and told me that if I didn't talk my Mom out of continuing the custody battle, he was going to put her in the streets. So he basically forced me into a position where I had to give into him in order to protect my Mom (which I did). Of course, he thought that she was "screwing me up" and saw himself as rescuing me.

When he realized that his new wife at one point was becoming upset and unhappy, instead of talking to her and trying to work things out... he tried to build her this huge home in the middle of the country where she could ride horses and be out in nature, thinking it would impress her and give her a change of scenery. It didn't work, she ended up divorcing him.

Ultimately, the man never had bad intentions, he just always seemed to hurt everyone around him in the process of giving them whatever he felt they needed. It was like he was so focused on his own idea of perfection that he couldn't understand how pushing people towards it could be a bad thing.

anne3 said:

are a little on the manipulative side? I have also noticed that they are selfish and like control. I have met a few that are troublemakers. Aren't virgos supposed to strive to help others? All I am noticing is that they strive to help themselves and they really do not have the ability to look outside of their own perspective.

The only thing I can think of is that virgo is the last sign of the first six "all about me" signs, so perhaps the selfishness is more potent with them?


Before I get yelled at, I have mercury in virgo and vertex in virgo, but I am noticing this with Virgo sun people.

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Hi. As the last of the first six signs, Virgo is less "all about me" than the other five. Virgo is about self-scrutiny, but in preparation for participation in the community, which is prioritised by the last six signs.

Each sign has its inherent fears, and Virgo fears chaos. Perhaps Virgo comes across as manipulative because it tries to impose order when afraid. But I think that the water signs are more prone to manipulative behaviour than the earth signs. Both earth and water need some sense of being supported by something. Water is more likely to manipulate in order to maintain this because it is less boundaried than earth.

Of the earth signs, Capricorn is more likely to manipulate others, and of course Capricornus the goat has a fish's tail. For Capricorn, the earthy boundaries sit side-by-side with a sense of being merged with some greater whole.

Very interesting story Athenian. Sorry you had to deal with that but you have a great perspective on it all....I would be much more inclined to point blame but you know your Dad and can see his good intentions as well.

Miquar - Caps are the most selfish and quite frankly the people I know with cap sun or mercury are really horrible but Virgos seem not far behind. I think as earth signs they want what they want for themselves and have no regard for anyone else. I find pisces very manipulative (definitely the most manipulative water sign) and it is interesting that pisces has a connection to both cap (the tail as you have said) and virgo (the opposite sign of virgo).

I have known lots of lovely virgo suns and my brother is a virgo moon and he is the kindest guy ever. My good friend virgo sun helped me so much with getting organized for my wedding and getting me boring lists of details. Calling me evrryday to make sure i had stuff booked. Such a life saver, I mean they can be critical sure but I tend to not take it to heart and it is usually not of me but details. She was critical of some of my other friends in highschool, especially the two aqua sun girls lol. She also hated one of the girls in my wedding party who basiclly said my hips were too big for nice dresses. I was not mad at her getting critical at this chick lol.

anne3 said:

Caps are the most selfish and quite frankly the people I know with cap sun or mercury are really horrible but Virgos seem not far behind. I think as earth signs they want what they want for themselves and have no regard for anyone else. I find pisces very manipulative (definitely the most manipulative water sign) and it is interesting that pisces has a connection to both cap (the tail as you have said) and virgo (the opposite sign of virgo).

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Hi anne3. Its a shame that you've mainly encountered selfish Capricorns. I have a lot of affection for the sign - perhaps because I have Venus there, though of course its not an easy sign for Venus.

The difficulty for Capricorn is that it follows a solstitial point, where the tide turns as the northerly declination of the ecliptic peaks. Capricorn is immersed in collectivity, and yet is required to get the process of individualisation off to a good start.

Virgo and Pisces are often referred to as crisis stages in the zodiacal cycle because they complete their respective hemicycles. Things catch up with us here as the balance between the individualising and collectivising tendencies approaches a tipping point. The resulting difficulties can easily affect interactions with others.

Whoops. Should have been SOUTHERLY declination of the ecliptic, or northerly celestial latitude of the celestial equator.

anne3 said:

are a little on the manipulative side? I have also noticed that they are selfish and like control. I have met a few that are troublemakers. Aren't virgos supposed to strive to help others? All I am noticing is that they strive to help themselves and they really do not have the ability to look outside of their own perspective.

The only thing I can think of is that virgo is the last sign of the first six "all about me" signs, so perhaps the selfishness is more potent with them?


Before I get yelled at, I have mercury in virgo and vertex in virgo, but I am noticing this with Virgo sun people.

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All the things you say can be true of Virgo's or people with strong Virgo emphasis. All the signs have great strengths that can be admired and then feet of clay when you realise the awful weaknesses. Being mindful of people's potentials and weaknesses can be very helpful in cultivating patience and tolerance for them... Also, being mindful of your own great potential and weaknesses can make you even more tolerant to other's.

miquar said:

I have Venus there, though of course its not an easy sign for Venus.

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Why not? Just wondering...

I dated a virgo she was entirely consumed with herself but played the victim so well. As though she wanted to save the world but would save herself even if a baby was in danger.. She was also a sociopath but I don't Know if your sign has anything to do with sociopaths

im engaged to a virgo and he is very kind and sweet! Everyone has their strongest and weakness points in their astrology personality.

Ha, I've got 5 Virgo-sun cousins and 2 Virgo-sun aunts. They all are the most caring people I know. Always with the "How are you?" "Do you need something?" "Can I help you with blah blah?". I've actually noticed how similar the Virgo-suns in my life are to the Scorpio-suns in my life. They both love to help their loved ones down to the last detail, But with one major difference (There are lots of differences) is that Scorpio feels a lot more while Virgo doesn't. I suppose that could bring up what athenian200 posted (Sorry to hear about that btw).

I have met the "strange" Virgo though. My friends cousin is a nasty (As in, He lives in a house that resembles a trash can), selfish person (And also a Virgo-sun). I wonder what his chart looks like.....

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Bunraku said:

Why not? Just wondering... <img src="images/smilies/biggrin.png" border="0" alt="" title="Biggrin" smilieid="113" class="inlineimg" />

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<p>Hi. Venus represents the urge for beauty and worth - which we need to see in ourselves if we are to feel fulfilled (while at the same not taking the notion of self too seriously). </p>
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<p>Capricorn doesn't take anything for granted. It follows the point of the zodiacal cycle at which the tendency towards merging with others as part of some greater whole reaches its peak. And at this point the tide turns towards the valuing of individuality. When we look at where the combination of cardinality and earth arises in the zodiacal cycle, we see that initiating (cardinal) tangible results (earth) is how we take individual responsibility for fulfilling a useful function within the collective. So everything has to be earned, justified, assessed - to make sure that one's responsibility to the collective is being properly fulfilled. Not being able to take one's own beauty and worth for granted is a difficult situation to be in because having to achieve results to earn these things means that just being ourselves isn't enough. Any Venus-in-sign placement points to a set of priorities, the fulfilment of which leads to increased self-worth and inner harmony, but Capricorn and Virgo bring a particularly stark conditionality to the search for these things. The other earth sign, Taurus doesn't look beyond the self for justification in the way that Virgo and Capricorn do, because in Taurus, the tendency towards individuality is dominant over the tendency towards collectivity and is still growing in strength.</p>

Hi. Sorry about the strange bits in the last post. It happens when I edit a post using my phone.

It occurred to me that I'd posted about why Venus' needs clash with Capricorn's values, but not vice versa. Its interesting that Venus and Mars don't like one another's signs of rulership because a similar thing happens with the cardinal yin sign axis. Mars gets on well in Capricorn because its a doing planet - it wants something to get its teeth into and doesn't mind not being validated for just sitting around. But Mars' need to take the initiative gets deflected by Cancer's valuing of intimacy on a feeling level.

But Cancer, with its instinctive love of this or that thing or person, allows Venus to love and be loved unconditionally. Venus in Capricorn has the issues discussed in the last post.