What house system should I be using?

C

CaprLibraSquared

Well-known member
Whole signs vs. Placidus

Not sure this is the right forum, but thought I would start here. FIRST, I know the most popular answer to my question is what feels right to you. HOWEVER, I am curious to hear other's thoughts on the matter. My chart in Placidus is VERY different from my Whole Signs. My stellium in the 8th house moves to the 9th. I've kinda hung my hat on being a Plutonian like person - now maybe not? My Libra sun moves from the 9th to the 10th. I am Capricorn rising. I have played around some and a 9th house Libra Sun does feel right. However, I have spent my life struggling with work and where do I fit so it makes me wonder is the 10th house a fit as the Sun often is the area of work/struggle. I think 9th house is more me than 10th. Mostly because if I could find a way to make a living just traveling and seeing the world - that would be awesome! It seems if I was truly a 10th house sun I would be focused on making my mark in the world and embrace my current administrator role more than I do.

Thoughts and discussion most appreciated!
 
Moog

Moog

Well-known member
Re: Whole signs vs. Placidus

CaprLibraSquared said:
Not sure this is the right forum, but thought I would start here. FIRST, I know the most popular answer to my question is what feels right to you. HOWEVER, I am curious to hear other's thoughts on the matter. My chart in Placidus is VERY different from my Whole Signs. My stellium in the 8th house moves to the 9th. I've kinda hung my hat on being a Plutonian like person - now maybe not? My Libra sun moves from the 9th to the 10th. I am Capricorn rising. I have played around some and a 9th house Libra Sun does feel right. However, I have spent my life struggling with work and where do I fit so it makes me wonder is the 10th house a fit as the Sun often is the area of work/struggle. I think 9th house is more me than 10th. Mostly because if I could find a way to make a living just traveling and seeing the world - that would be awesome! It seems if I was truly a 10th house sun I would be focused on making my mark in the world and embrace my current administrator role more than I do.

Thoughts and discussion most appreciated!
Click to expand...

What are the rulers of your 9th and 10th, where are they in relation to their houses, and what condition are they in? What other planets are present in those houses?

If you're open to trying things out, also try sidereal zodiac rather than tropical, assuming you're casting tropical charts...
 
C

CaprLibraSquared

Well-known member
Re: Whole signs vs. Placidus

Still learning astrology so not following you entirely. My 10th house ruler in Placidus is Pluto and the 9th is Venus. In Whole Sign 10th is Venus and 9th is Mercury
In Plac the 10th house contains Mercury and Neptune in whole this shifts to the 11th so the ruler of 11th becomes Pluto. In addition Pluto, Venus, & Uranus all move from the 8th to the 9th in the whole sign - ruler Mercury. Signs don't change - just the houses.

It really is a completely different chart in Whole sign. Every planet shifts houses. Not one keeps the same position.

So, not sure that answers your question, but that is what I know. :)
 
serafin5

serafin5

Well-known member
Re: Whole signs vs. Placidus

CaprLibraSquared said:
Not sure this is the right forum, but thought I would start here. FIRST, I know the most popular answer to my question is what feels right to you. HOWEVER, I am curious to hear other's thoughts on the matter. My chart in Placidus is VERY different from my Whole Signs. My stellium in the 8th house moves to the 9th. I've kinda hung my hat on being a Plutonian like person - now maybe not? My Libra sun moves from the 9th to the 10th. I am Capricorn rising. I have played around some and a 9th house Libra Sun does feel right. However, I have spent my life struggling with work and where do I fit so it makes me wonder is the 10th house a fit as the Sun often is the area of work/struggle. I think 9th house is more me than 10th. Mostly because if I could find a way to make a living just traveling and seeing the world - that would be awesome! It seems if I was truly a 10th house sun I would be focused on making my mark in the world and embrace my current administrator role more than I do.

Thoughts and discussion most appreciated!
Click to expand...

I can relate; my entire chart is completely changed when trying the 'Whole sign' house system. I have also done my chart for sidereal too; WoW! It's a lot to wrap my head around especially since I've been using either equal house or placidius since 1980. I've gotta really meditate to see what feels 'true' to me. However, I've got to tell you that when sidereal astrology was finally explained to me I was blown away! I really had no idea what the tropical system truly meant.......it's crazy. Thanks for the thread!:biggrin:

Blessings.
Serafin5
 
M

may28gemini

Re: Whole signs vs. Placidus

i'm the reverse. i've always done whole signs and don't use placidus. whole signs makes sense to me because there's 30 degrees for each sign and all the planets in 1 sign belongs in 1 house. it's simple and elegant enough, why complicate it?
 
A

Alice McDermott

Well-known member
Re: Whole signs vs. Placidus

Whole signs are the signs of the zodiac calculated from 0 degrees of the sign rising at the moment of birth and arranged equally around the chart. It is not a house system as such, just the signs of the zodiac. It is a very simple form of mapping, suitable for beginners, and will fit millions of people born within an approximately two hour span all over the world.

House systems are calculated for the exact time of birth and the exact latitude of birth. These map the nature of the individual person as it is very rare for two people to be born at exactly the same time and exactly the same place in the world.

So for a very generalised form of astrology whole signs will fit the bill - it is a bit like a more involved form of Sun sign astrology. For the astrology of the individual, house systems tell the story much more accurately.

Alice
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Re: Whole signs vs. Placidus

fwiw IMO it is important to remember - as dr. farr has explained as follows - the original intended way whole signs was used by astrologers at least two thousand years ago

There are astrologers who continue to use whole signs currently. Often referred to as "Hellenistic Delineation" :smile:
dr. farr said:

Cusps:

Today (and for the past thousand years or so) we define cusps as "borders" (coasts), but that is not the original meaning of the word "cusp":

it means "point" such as cuspal teeth (bicuspids) and the point of a sword - so originally the term cusp meant the "point" of something,

and in astrology originally the "cusp" of the house meant its "point";

now, when quadrant systems were developed, this "point" of the house came to mean its "beginning", which later came to mean its "border", ie, the "border" between one house and the other.

And later astrology also began using these "borders" (cusps) for various prognostic applications (Charles Carter came to believe that, for timing of events, the "cusps" of the Campanus house system gave the best results, among the various quadrant house systems)

But now notice this: in whole sign the cusps are NOT the 0 degree "borders" of sign/houses at all, and never were so regarded!

In whole sign, the "cusp" retained its original meaning, not as a "border" but rather as A POINT - and that POINT (cusp) for EACH house, was the sensitive point of that house, viz, the sensitive point in whole sign houses - each house - that is the "cusp" of each house - is a direct projection from the ascending degree.

Example:
-the ascending degree of a chart is 18 Taurus: what are the house cusps (sensitive points, original meaning of the word "cusp") in the whole sign houses of this chart?

Cusp of 1st house = 18 Taurus
Cusp of 2nd house = 18 Gemini
Cusp of 3rd house = 18 Cancer
Cusp of 4th house = 18 Leo
Cusp of 5th house = 18 Virgo
Cusp of 6th house = 18 Libra
Cusp of 7th house = 18 Scorpio
Cusp of 8th house = 18 Sagittarius
Cusp of 9th house = 18 Capricorn
Cusp of 10th house = 18 Aquarius
Cusp of 11th house = 18 Pisces
Cusp of 12th house = 18 Aries

Now it is these "cusps" (sensitive degrees, original meaning of the word "cusp" as a "point") that are (and were) used for progressions, timing of events, etc, and the fact is that they work for these purposes, quite well (in expert hands)

Whole sign does not use the BORDERS between houses (always 0 degree of any sign) for anything, but it DOES use "cusps" (points in the house, projected from the exact ascending degree) for timing (and other) delineative purposes.

Whole sign suddenly vanished (both in the West and in Vedic astrology) during the same period of time-ie, late 8th to early 9th century-this sudden disappearance suggests a sudden turn in astrological thinking and practices, rather than a gradual supplanting of a less effective traditional method (whole sign) by a new and more effective method (rheotrius/alchabitius in the West, and the closely related to whole sign Equal house, in Vedic astrology)

I quite agree with Waybread in the statement, "so what?" (if old time astrologers did or didn't do something) For me, there is only 1 reason I switched to whole sign - it worked better (FOR ME) I could care less if it were the oldest house system (which it is) or whether it was invented by Badda Bing at Barney's Beanery in Bayonne, 10 years ago: only things I consider are:

-does it seem to make sense?
-does it "taste good" to me (ie, does it "feel right" to me)
-and, if yes to the above, does it work (producing delineations and predicitions) better than what I have previously been doing?

Well, whole sign did all that, for me, so I switched; but I am not going to try to convince anyone of anything about it, except for beginners - to you who might just be starting out, I would say: try whole sign first, and see how well it might work for you...
Click to expand...
 
kimbermoon

kimbermoon

Well-known member
Most will give you different answers...To me the concept of using different charts just generates confusion and contradiction...For consistency I like to just stick to one, and refer that to transits, progressions and solar returns, etc. that is where I get my accuracy from. Now what will you do when one person tells you that their choice is the best one, and another tells you something different? Of course traditionalists will surely try to 'set me straight' on the topic.:sideways:
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
KingTaurus said:
What is most commonly used for accuracy...?

Why do some use Placidus?
Why do others use Equal?

Help, help, help??? Explain!?

ThankS:)
Click to expand...
There are more than forty different house systems and fourteen of them are available for anyone to experiment with when creating their natal chart on astro.com

Each astrologer uses their preferred house system of choice, based on their own opinion of accuracy. There is no consensus as such. It is not unusual for astrologers to disagree on many aspects of the particular form of astrology that they practice :smile:
 
Sandra0406

Sandra0406

Active member
I used Placidus before, but then I saw that many are recommended Koch...Now I switched to Whole Signs,which shows a much different picture than the previous two...Astrologers say the essence is always the same, no matter which system is chosen...Personally, this is confusing, because I thought that my Saturn and Jupiter are in the 12th,but now, in the first...:innocent: I read somewhere that for beginners is the best the system of Whole Signs...
2yxs01l.jpg
 
K

KingTaurus

Active member
Sandra0406 said:
I used Placidus before, but then I saw that many are recommended Koch...Now I switched to Whole Signs,which shows a much different picture than the previous two...Astrologers say the essence is always the same, no matter which system is chosen...Personally, this is confusing, because I thought that my Saturn and Jupiter are in the 12th,but now, in the first...:innocent: I read somewhere that for beginners is the best the system of Whole Signs...
2yxs01l.jpg
Click to expand...

Hmm, I don't understand the logic behind whole signs... but I'd like to!

Hmm...
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
KingTaurus said:
Hmm, I don't understand the logic behind whole signs... but I'd like to!

Hmm.. .
Click to expand...
KingTaurus, a thread full of information entitled "Whole Sign Houses & The MC" is viewable at this link on the forum http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42613

fwiw, here's a sample from the thread specifically describing the use of Whole Sign Houses for delineation of a natal chart more than two thousand years ago in Hellenistic times - many astrologers continue to use this same system currently :smile:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. farr
Cusps: Today (and for the past thousand years or so) we define cusps as "borders" (coasts), but that is not the original meaning of the word "cusp": it means "point" such as cuspal teeth (bicuspids) and the point of a sword

- so originally the term cusp meant the "point" of something, and in astrology originally the "cusp" of the house meant its "point";

now, when quadrant systems were developed, this "point" of the house came to mean its "beginning", which later came to mean its "border", ie, the "border" between one house and the other.

And later astrology also began using these "borders" (cusps) for various prognostic applications (Charles Carter came to believe that, for timing of events, the "cusps" of the Campanus house system gave the best results, among the various quadrant house systems)

But now notice this: in whole sign the cusps are NOT the 0 degree "borders" of sign/houses at all, and never were so regarded!

In whole sign, the "cusp" retained its original meaning, not as a "border" but rather as A POINT - and that POINT (cusp) for EACH house, was the sensitive point of that house, viz, the sensitive point in whole sign houses - each house - that is the "cusp" of each house - is a direct projection from the ascending degree.

Example:
- the ascending degree of a chart is 18 Taurus: what are the house cusps (sensitive points, original meaning of the word "cusp") in the whole sign houses of this chart?
Cusp of 1st house = 18 Taurus
Cusp of 2nd house = 18 Gemini
Cusp of 3rd house = 18 Cancer
Cusp of 4th house = 18 Leo
Cusp of 5th house = 18 Virgo
Cusp of 6th house = 18 Libra
Cusp of 7th house = 18 Scorpio
Cusp of 8th house = 18 Sagittarius
Cusp of 9th house = 18 Capricorn
Cusp of 10th house = 18 Aquarius
Cusp of 11th house = 18 Pisces
Cusp of 12th house = 18 Aries

Now it is these "cusps" (sensitive degrees, original meaning of the word "cusp" as a "point") that are (and were) used for progressions, timing of events, etc, and the fact is that they work for these purposes, quite well (in expert hands)

Whole sign does not use the BORDERS between houses (always 0 degree of any sign) for anything, but it DOES use "cusps" (points in the house, projected from the exact ascending degree) for timing (and other) delineative purposes.

Whole sign suddenly vanished (both in the West and in Vedic astrology) during the same period of time-ie, late 8th to early 9th century-this sudden disappearance suggests a sudden turn in astrological thinking and practices, rather than a gradual supplanting of a less effective traditional method (whole sign) by a new and more effective method (rheotrius/alchabitius in the West, and the closely related to whole sign Equal house, in Vedic astrology)

I quite agree with Waybread in the statement, "so what?" (if old time astrologers did or didn't do something) For me, there is only 1 reason I switched to whole sign - it worked better (FOR ME) I could care less if it were the oldest house system (which it is) or whether it was invented by Badda Bing at Barney's Beanery in Bayonne, 10 years ago: only things I consider are:
-does it seem to make sense?
-does it "taste good" to me (ie, does it "feel right" to me)
-and, if yes to the above, does it work (producing delineations and predicitions) better than what I have previously been doing?
Well, whole sign did all that, for me, so I switched; but I am not going to try to convince anyone of anything about it, except for beginners-to you who might just be starting out, I would say: try whole sign first, and see how well it might work for you...
 
m0ney*p0wer*re$pect

m0ney*p0wer*re$pect

Well-known member
KingTaurus said:
Hmm, I don't understand the logic behind whole signs... but I'd like to!

Hmm...
Click to expand...


It uses the ascendant sign as the first house and every house follows so instead of your first house being 13 degrees Leo its just Leo, there are no splits so if a planet is in a certain sign it will fall in the corresponding house regardless of the degree
 
Sandra0406

Sandra0406

Active member
KingTaurus said:
Hmm, I don't understand the logic behind whole signs... but I'd like to!

Hmm...
Click to expand...

Whole Signs system is easier to use because you do not have to think that in some house are 2 or 3 signs, whether the planet in some house is in a different sign than to the cusp of the house and so on.But how to find the logic,this is very difficult,you have to find what suits you the most,and frankly I find it difficult too...
 
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