Read my chart - interceptions etc.
- Thread starter byjove
- Start date
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Re: Intercepted planets?
i.e. no one born on or near the Equator EVER has intercepted houses - it's simply not possible.
However, the further North and/or South of the Equator that the birth is located then systems other than whole Signs become increasingly distorted.
It's easy to experiment by relocating your natal chart far North and/or far South of your place of birth
....and notice the increasing distortion of houses - the distortion is referred to as 'intercepted houses'
Interestingly, 'intercepted houses' are simply caused by one's location North or South of the Equator on the approximate sphere that is planet Earth
i.e. no one born on or near the Equator EVER has intercepted houses - it's simply not possible.
However, the further North and/or South of the Equator that the birth is located then systems other than whole Signs become increasingly distorted.
It's easy to experiment by relocating your natal chart far North and/or far South of your place of birth
....and notice the increasing distortion of houses - the distortion is referred to as 'intercepted houses'
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Re: Intercepted planets?
Although it's said there is no certainty in life, I can be certain you shall definitely find that more than one astrological technique explains the significant 'stall' byjove - whether yearly profection, daily profection, monthly profection, solar return, eclipse delineation et al
BobZemco
Well-known member
Re: Intercepted planets?
Uh, okay, but that doesn't jive with what he's describing, which is Natal in origin.
I actually have your chart somewhere, just not on this laptop.
You need to go back and scrutinize your chart more closely.
It donned on me after reading a few threads, that **** near everyone is practicing Astrology without an Ephemeris.
If you have Planets applying in aspect, it doesn't matter if the chart is Electional, Horary, Mundane/Event, Revolution or Natal, you have got to check to see if that aspect perfects, and that's why you absolutely must have an Ephemeris.
In all cases, the significations are the same, but with Natal Charts, the effects are very very long lasting...until you die.
A Planet can control one or more facets of your life. You could have Mars as Chart Ruler, plus Significator of Wealth and Significator of Love/Marriage ---- and if Mars is in Pisces applying to a trine of Jupiter in Scorpio but goes Retrograde never perfecting the trine, well in that case, your life will be in ruins, as will your finances and your love life.
In that example, when Mars is activated in Profections and Revolutions, and is in excellent condition -- as in Fortunate -- then you get granted a reprieve, and if Mars is in poor condition, then things are that much more awful for you.
Note that Mercury and Venus being faster can sometimes apply to a Significator Planet, go Retrograde, then go Direct and still perfect the aspect. Note that Mercury rules your life from Age 4 to 13 and Venus Age 13 to 21...you'll see that manifest itself as "Slow Learner" very often.
Aside from that, if Mercury or Venus govern other facets of your life, then you will eventually succeed....if that is what the aspect portends overall...but only after delays and trials and tribulations.
So your Wealth may come later in life, Fame later in life, Career later in life, Marriage later in life, Children later in life, and good Health later in life...or bad Health later in life, because bad things can be stalled as well.
Another thing about Significator Planets, is if they have separated, and then go Retrograde and come back, that signifies something that you are forced or compelled to do.
As an example, a woman had a Planet separate from the 10th House Ruler moving Direct, but then went Retrograde and came back. Years and years later in a Revolution that Planet was already Retrograde and on collision in a square with the 10th Ruler -- her husband died, and she was forced to take over his business and run it.
Significator of Brothers/Sisters applying to Ascendant Ruler, Signficator of Children is Direct and separating, then turns Retrograde....one possibility is that the Native is forced to adopt the children of his sibling...sibling and spouse die leaving the children as orphans and you end up adopting them, because that is what is written in the Will/Testament/Codicils or because there's no other viable options.
Retrogradation is not the only possibility with aspects in the Natal Chart.
There's Flight.
Significator Planet applying in aspect to other Planet, and that Planet changes Signs before the aspect is perfected, well, you know those people....if the applying Planet is Significator of Love/Marriage then those poor people waste their whole life looking for that, um, you know, "soul-mate"......grass-is-greener kind of people....always within sight, but never within reach...waste their whole lives seeking Wealth and never finding it, seeking Fame/Fortune and never finding it, seeking that perfect job and never finding it, seeking Jesus and never finding him...that kind of thing.
If a client comes to you and says, "There's a grand conspiracy to destroy my life" well, before you laugh them off as insane, you just might want to take the time to check and see if their Chart Ruler, Sect Ruler or Ascendant Ruler is obstructed.
Here, the Significator Planet is applying to conjunct another Planet, and then a third Planet goes Retrograde, comes back and blocks the Significator Planet.
That's very direct, but an indirect form is cutting off light, by joining the other Planet without actually blocking it. In fact, any Planet can cut off the light from any other Planet in aspect.
In addition to affecting you natally, you get the same effects in Revolutions, but those effects are short-lived. A Planet obstructing your Ascendant Ruler in the Revolution is a person or thing who prevents you from doing whatever was you wanted to do in that year, so the obstructing Planet could signify your siblings, parents, children, step-children, health, wealth, authorities, secret enemies, known enemies or your spouse (sometimes the same thing), your creative or business partners (also sometimes the same thing as known enemies), your career...perhaps even your standing in your community/career-field prevents you from doing something.
If you're not finding answers in Modern Astrology, then maybe it's time to start examining Traditional Astrology, and that means re-evaluating the Condition of all the Planets in your chart.
Jupiter, Saturn and Oriental Mercury need to be Above Earth with Sun, and if they are not, they are corrupted. In a Night Chart, they need to be Below Earth with Sun. If they are in a Feminine Quadrant, they are corrupted; in a Feminine Sign or Degree they are corrupted.
Moon, Venus, Mars and Occidental Mercury need to be Below Earth in a Day Chart, and if not, they are corrupted. In a Night Chart, they need to be Above Earth. They are corrupted in if they are in Masculine Quadrants, Signs, or Degrees.
If the Planets are Via Combusta, in Fall/Detriment, Peregrine, Dark, Pitted or Azieme Degrees, within 12° of their own node, Retrograde or in aspect to Saturn or Mars (or Sun or Mercury as a Malefic) or Slow in Motion, besieged by Malefics, applying to a Retrograde Planet, not Received, then they are corrupted or impeded (or both).
If they are in Fall/Detriment, Cadent, or Retrograde, then they are weak, and for a Planet is highly corrupted, that might actually be a good thing.
How you judge that is up to you...on a Scale of 1 to 3 with 3 being Fortunate, Competent, Strong, and 1 being Unfortunate, Incompetent or Weak and 2 being "neither" or a Scale of 1 to 5 or even 1% to 100%.
A Significator Planet may be in a position to do good things for you, and actually want to do good things for you, but if the Planet is weak, that is not going to happen. If the Planet is impeded, it might happen very slowly.
On the other hand, the Significator Planet may be unable to do good things for you, even thought it wants to do good things for you, and then be very powerful in your chart (see that a lot with under achievers and others who never reach their full potential).
Then again, maybe the Planet is only able to cause harm, even though it doesn't want to do that, yet it has sufficient power/strength to muck up things in your life that it governs or rules.
Anyway, those things all matter, and if you doubt it then look around you.....nothing but shiny happy wealthy beautiful healthy extraordinarily talented, athletic, artistic and intelligent people living blissfully perfect lives, right?
Nope.
Why not?
I just told you why.
Although it's said there is no certainty in life, I can be certain you shall definitely find that more than one astrological technique explains the significant 'stall' byjove - whether yearly profection, daily profection, monthly profection, solar return, eclipse delineation et al
Uh, okay, but that doesn't jive with what he's describing, which is Natal in origin.
I actually have your chart somewhere, just not on this laptop.
You need to go back and scrutinize your chart more closely.
It donned on me after reading a few threads, that **** near everyone is practicing Astrology without an Ephemeris.
If you have Planets applying in aspect, it doesn't matter if the chart is Electional, Horary, Mundane/Event, Revolution or Natal, you have got to check to see if that aspect perfects, and that's why you absolutely must have an Ephemeris.
In all cases, the significations are the same, but with Natal Charts, the effects are very very long lasting...until you die.
A Planet can control one or more facets of your life. You could have Mars as Chart Ruler, plus Significator of Wealth and Significator of Love/Marriage ---- and if Mars is in Pisces applying to a trine of Jupiter in Scorpio but goes Retrograde never perfecting the trine, well in that case, your life will be in ruins, as will your finances and your love life.
In that example, when Mars is activated in Profections and Revolutions, and is in excellent condition -- as in Fortunate -- then you get granted a reprieve, and if Mars is in poor condition, then things are that much more awful for you.
Note that Mercury and Venus being faster can sometimes apply to a Significator Planet, go Retrograde, then go Direct and still perfect the aspect. Note that Mercury rules your life from Age 4 to 13 and Venus Age 13 to 21...you'll see that manifest itself as "Slow Learner" very often.
Aside from that, if Mercury or Venus govern other facets of your life, then you will eventually succeed....if that is what the aspect portends overall...but only after delays and trials and tribulations.
So your Wealth may come later in life, Fame later in life, Career later in life, Marriage later in life, Children later in life, and good Health later in life...or bad Health later in life, because bad things can be stalled as well.
Another thing about Significator Planets, is if they have separated, and then go Retrograde and come back, that signifies something that you are forced or compelled to do.
As an example, a woman had a Planet separate from the 10th House Ruler moving Direct, but then went Retrograde and came back. Years and years later in a Revolution that Planet was already Retrograde and on collision in a square with the 10th Ruler -- her husband died, and she was forced to take over his business and run it.
Significator of Brothers/Sisters applying to Ascendant Ruler, Signficator of Children is Direct and separating, then turns Retrograde....one possibility is that the Native is forced to adopt the children of his sibling...sibling and spouse die leaving the children as orphans and you end up adopting them, because that is what is written in the Will/Testament/Codicils or because there's no other viable options.
Retrogradation is not the only possibility with aspects in the Natal Chart.
There's Flight.
Significator Planet applying in aspect to other Planet, and that Planet changes Signs before the aspect is perfected, well, you know those people....if the applying Planet is Significator of Love/Marriage then those poor people waste their whole life looking for that, um, you know, "soul-mate"......grass-is-greener kind of people....always within sight, but never within reach...waste their whole lives seeking Wealth and never finding it, seeking Fame/Fortune and never finding it, seeking that perfect job and never finding it, seeking Jesus and never finding him...that kind of thing.
If a client comes to you and says, "There's a grand conspiracy to destroy my life" well, before you laugh them off as insane, you just might want to take the time to check and see if their Chart Ruler, Sect Ruler or Ascendant Ruler is obstructed.
Here, the Significator Planet is applying to conjunct another Planet, and then a third Planet goes Retrograde, comes back and blocks the Significator Planet.
That's very direct, but an indirect form is cutting off light, by joining the other Planet without actually blocking it. In fact, any Planet can cut off the light from any other Planet in aspect.
In addition to affecting you natally, you get the same effects in Revolutions, but those effects are short-lived. A Planet obstructing your Ascendant Ruler in the Revolution is a person or thing who prevents you from doing whatever was you wanted to do in that year, so the obstructing Planet could signify your siblings, parents, children, step-children, health, wealth, authorities, secret enemies, known enemies or your spouse (sometimes the same thing), your creative or business partners (also sometimes the same thing as known enemies), your career...perhaps even your standing in your community/career-field prevents you from doing something.
If you're not finding answers in Modern Astrology, then maybe it's time to start examining Traditional Astrology, and that means re-evaluating the Condition of all the Planets in your chart.
Jupiter, Saturn and Oriental Mercury need to be Above Earth with Sun, and if they are not, they are corrupted. In a Night Chart, they need to be Below Earth with Sun. If they are in a Feminine Quadrant, they are corrupted; in a Feminine Sign or Degree they are corrupted.
Moon, Venus, Mars and Occidental Mercury need to be Below Earth in a Day Chart, and if not, they are corrupted. In a Night Chart, they need to be Above Earth. They are corrupted in if they are in Masculine Quadrants, Signs, or Degrees.
If the Planets are Via Combusta, in Fall/Detriment, Peregrine, Dark, Pitted or Azieme Degrees, within 12° of their own node, Retrograde or in aspect to Saturn or Mars (or Sun or Mercury as a Malefic) or Slow in Motion, besieged by Malefics, applying to a Retrograde Planet, not Received, then they are corrupted or impeded (or both).
If they are in Fall/Detriment, Cadent, or Retrograde, then they are weak, and for a Planet is highly corrupted, that might actually be a good thing.
How you judge that is up to you...on a Scale of 1 to 3 with 3 being Fortunate, Competent, Strong, and 1 being Unfortunate, Incompetent or Weak and 2 being "neither" or a Scale of 1 to 5 or even 1% to 100%.
A Significator Planet may be in a position to do good things for you, and actually want to do good things for you, but if the Planet is weak, that is not going to happen. If the Planet is impeded, it might happen very slowly.
On the other hand, the Significator Planet may be unable to do good things for you, even thought it wants to do good things for you, and then be very powerful in your chart (see that a lot with under achievers and others who never reach their full potential).
Then again, maybe the Planet is only able to cause harm, even though it doesn't want to do that, yet it has sufficient power/strength to muck up things in your life that it governs or rules.
Anyway, those things all matter, and if you doubt it then look around you.....nothing but shiny happy wealthy beautiful healthy extraordinarily talented, athletic, artistic and intelligent people living blissfully perfect lives, right?
Nope.
Why not?
I just told you why.
Re: Intercepted planets?
That's true, but then all the information that is gained from them also disappears. Of course, if you are not using the work of Ivy Goldstein-Jacobson, this may not matter to you since you may not know that information in the first place.
That's true, but then all the information that is gained from them also disappears. Of course, if you are not using the work of Ivy Goldstein-Jacobson, this may not matter to you since you may not know that information in the first place.
Caro
Well-known member
Re: Intercepted planets?
chart ruler is mars(6 planets in aries) which is in Taurus at 11 degrees in 12th house! but sect ruler? how do I find this.
are you also saying this is fatalistic ie if her chart is obstructed that is it tough!?
grateful for further info. thanks
in a strange twist of co-incidence someone has said something similar to me recently. basically that something is on a mission to destroy her life. how can I check her chart. chart ruler I understand (its merc which is in aries at 9 degrees(so Uranus conj and pluto square - I know you personally don't look at these but I do)
chart ruler is mars(6 planets in aries) which is in Taurus at 11 degrees in 12th house! but sect ruler? how do I find this.
are you also saying this is fatalistic ie if her chart is obstructed that is it tough!?
grateful for further info. thanks
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Re: Intercepted planets?
'00:00 UT'
'UT' = Universal Time
'….Universal Time (UT) is a time standard based on rotation of the Earth and is a modern continuation of Greenwich Mean Time (GMT)
i.e., the mean solar time on the Prime Meridian at Greenwich
and GMT is sometimes used loosely as a synonym for UTC.
In fact, the expression "Universal Time" is ambiguous, as there are several versions of it, the most commonly used being UTC and UT1.
All versions of UT are based on rotation of the Earth in relation to distant celestial objects (stars and quasars), but with a scaling factor and other adjustments to make them closer to solar time....' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Time
byjove at top right of each individual month of each individual year of the astrodienst Swiss Ephemeris at http://www.astro.com/swisseph/swepha_e.htm you'll notice written:
'00:00 UT'
'UT' = Universal Time
'….Universal Time (UT) is a time standard based on rotation of the Earth and is a modern continuation of Greenwich Mean Time (GMT)
i.e., the mean solar time on the Prime Meridian at Greenwich
and GMT is sometimes used loosely as a synonym for UTC.
In fact, the expression "Universal Time" is ambiguous, as there are several versions of it, the most commonly used being UTC and UT1.
All versions of UT are based on rotation of the Earth in relation to distant celestial objects (stars and quasars), but with a scaling factor and other adjustments to make them closer to solar time....' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Time
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
BobZemco
Well-known member
I don't know anything about that.
All I can tell you is that the tables are constructed based either on Midnight or at Noon. I prefer the Noon Ephemeris, because for me it is easier to approximate a Planet's true position locally by adding or subtracting hours to Noon. For others, adding hours to Midnight is easier for them.
"Midday" suggests a Noon Ephemeris.
But none of that matters -- all you care about is the date the chart (whatever kind of chart it is) was cast. Run your finger down the column that represents the Planet of your interest and see what the Planet does.
I forgot that most people use software. I think most software programs allow you to step through a day, month, year at a time or whatever. You can use that, too.
Planetary Speed: Moon, Mercury, Venus, Sun, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn.
Venus can never make an applying aspect to Moon. Even when Retrograde, it is still Moon that applies to Venus. Jupiter can never make an applying aspect to Mercury and so on.
Nowhere does it state that Planets must be in exact orb to the Degree/Minute to perfect. Mars is applying to a sextile of Jupiter at 9°33' so when Mars gets to 9° that sextile is perfected. I actually use 1° for the Superior Planets and 30' for the Inferior Planets, so in my book, when Mars reaches 8°34' that sextile is perfected.
With respect to aspects in your chart:
Moon has separated from Venus, so there is no Moon/Venus opposition; Moon's next aspect is a square to Saturn, and Moon will perfect.
Mercury has separated from Saturn, so there is no square. Mercury makes no other applying aspects before leaving Pisces, still I would not consider Mercury Void of Course (because of the opposition with Moon by Sign).
Venus is applying to a square of Saturn, and that aspect will perfect.
None of the Planets in your chart will change Signs or turn Retrograde/Direct or be blocked or obstructed before perfecting their aspects, so that is not an issue for you.
Your complaint is that your career/potential is stalled.
I'm guessing you want to know why.
We'll start with Sun. This is a Day Chart, Sun is Sect Ruler, in a Masculine Quadrant, Masculine Sign, and Masculine House. Sun is in Hayz. Sun is Exalted in Aries and as Sect Ruler is also Fire Triplicity Ruler, so Sun has Dignity. That's the good news.
The bad news is Sun is Slow, in a Dark/Feminine Degree, and in trine with Retrograde Saturn. While Sun receives Saturn as Fire Triplicity Ruler, Saturn (Malefic in this chart) does not receive Sun...and that is the problem, because that makes Sun an Accidental Malefic, not to mention Saturn is impeding Sun.
Anyway, impeded Planets always struggle. Whatever facets of your life Sun governs will always be difficult to some degree, and whatever it is you want to do, it would probably be best to wait until Sun is activated and is very strong and fortunate in your Solar Return and other charts if you want some measure of success.
Jupiter is very unfortunate here. Yes, Jupiter is a Day Planet and where he is supposed to be, and he's Oriental of Sun, Escaping Combustion/Under Beams, in a Masculine Quadrant/Sign/House (in Hayz) and with the Head and Angular, but that's it.
Mars is casting his rays to the right of Jupiter at 3° Aries, and Jupiter is running straight into the rays of Saturn, and also Malefic Sun.
Jupiter is besieged by Malefics.
Moon, Mercury and Venus are in aversion to Jupiter, and I don't see any way to break the entrapment.
The sextile with Mars is not very helpful. Yes, Mars receives Jupiter and that's good (it keeps Jupiter from being further harmed), but Mars is Peregrine and Jupiter doesn't receive Mars and doesn't particularly like Gemini.
The trine with Saturn is bad. Here, Jupiter receives Saturn, but Saturn does not receive Jupiter, plus Saturn is Below Earth in a Day Chart and Retrograde.
Saturn impedes Jupiter. Same story with Sun. It's not that you cannot do anything, it's just that whatever you undertake in relation to what Jupiter rules is going to be very difficult for you. If you're looking for Easy Street, you won't find it here.
Note that Sun is your Age Ruler. Things will get slightly better when Mars becomes your Age Ruler. Aside from that, your best chance of success(es) is going to be when Jupiter (and Sun) are in excellent condition in your Solar Return and they've been activated in the Solar Return or Profection Chart.
That's weird, right?
Something I should probably clarify, you're looking at the applying aspects a Planet might make while in a given Sign.
If those Planets are in Aries, then Mars in Taurus is in aversion to them, and that is a good thing.
Since Mars is in aversion, Mercury cannot be in an applying aspect to Mars. I think Modern Astrologers call that a semi-sextile, but we have no use for those, so I don't know that the significations are applicable, especially since a Planet in aversion has its own meaning.
You say the Chart Ruler is in 12th House, if that is also the 12th Sign of the Chart, then the Chart Ruler is in aversion to the Ascending Sign/1st House. I think Moderns call that "inconjunct."
It is very important that the Chart Ruler and Ascendant Ruler aspect the Ascending Sign. The type of aspect doesn't matter. So long as the Chart Ruler and Ascendant Ruler are located in the 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 7th, 9th, 10th or 11th Houses, that's a positive thing.
The signification is that the Native exercises an high degree of control over their life. If either the Chart Ruler or Ascendant Ruler are in aversion to the Rising Sign, then that means they only have partial control over their life, and if both should be in aversion, then that means they have no control.
In other words, those people have very little chance of being proactive, and spend most of their lives reacting to problems and situations (most often created by others) as they arise ....and of course that might appear as though there is a conspiracy to ruin their lives, but not really.....it's just that they aren't in control, or exercise very little control. It's frustrating.
I'm not saying those people are "blameless" or "victims" (although they could be depending on the chart), but they'll be wrestling with "circumstances beyond their control."
Look at the chart. Sect Ruler is either Sun or Moon. Sun in Day Charts, Moon in Night Charts.
It could be.
If it's in the Natal Chart, it is an Archetype....a recurring theme throughout their entire life, as it relates to whatever the involved Planets rule in the chart.
There are times when things will be better (maybe), or worse (maybe) and that will depend on whether or not those Planets are activated and how they are situated in the Solar Return (if they are activated).
How to determine SECT
I don't know where you got this, but it is a totally botched abortion.
That is 100% wrong.
Whoever wrote that doesn't know jack squat about Sect. There are two components to Sect: Gender and Sect Status.
Masculine Planets:
Sun
Mars
Jupiter
Saturn
Mercury when leading Sun/rising ahead of Sun/Oriental-East of Sun
Feminine Planets:
Moon
Venus
Mercury when chasing Sun/rising behind Sun/Occidental-West of Sun
Day (Diurnal) Planets:
Sun
Jupiter
Saturn
Mercury when leading Sun/rising ahead of Sun/Oriental-East of Sun
Night (Nocturnal) Planets:
Moon
Venus
Mars
Mercury when chasing Sun/rising behind Sun/Occidental-West of Sun
There are four considerations:
Hemisphere (not applicable to Sun --- the Greater Light ---but applicable to Moon --- the Lesser Light)
Quadrant
Sign
Degree
Jupiter, Saturn and Mercury (when leading Sun/rising ahead of Sun/Oriental-East of Sun) are in Sect --- in the correct Hemisphere when they are with Sun Above Earth or with Sun Below Earth.
If they are simultaneously in a Masculine Sign, they are in Hayz.
If they are in a Masculine Degree, that adds to their abilities, but if they are in a Feminine Degree, that detracts from their abilities.
If they are Below Earth in a Day Chart, they are debilitated, and if they are Below Earth and in a Feminine Sign, they are Out-of-Sect. Being in a Feminine Degree makes them that much more unfortunate, but being in a Masculine Degree helps a wee bit.
Because the Sun is the Greater Light and not a Planet, the Sun must be in a Masculine Sign and either a Masculine Quadrant or Masculine Degree to be in Hayz.
Sorry, but Pisces Sun in 8th House/Sign is Out-of-Sect, just as Cancer Sun in 10th House is Out-of-Sect.
In a Day Chart, Mercury (when chasing Sun/rising behind Sun/Occidental-West of Sun), and Moon, Venus and Mars must be Below the Horizon. If they are in Feminine Signs, they are also in Hayz, but again, being in Masculine Degrees detracts from that.
That is just plain wrong.
Obviously the idiot on the web-site has conflated Sect Ruler with Sect.....they are not the same thing.
For those who don't know, the Sect Ruler governs your constitution. A fortunate Sect Ruler is someone who doesn't take ill easily, heals faster from injuries and illnesses than the average person, and recuperates faster. An unfortunate Sect Ruler is one who gets sick at the first sight of rain, is injured easier, remains ill or injured longer, and even after the illness fades or injury heals, it takes them longer than the average person to get back into their routine.
Anyway, the Sun is always Sect Ruler in a Day Chart, but the Sun is out-of-Sect in Feminine Signs, Degrees and Quadrants.
The Moon is always Sect Ruler in a Night Chart, but if the Moon is not Above Horizon, then the Moon is not in Sect.
No, that's not even Astrology. You might want to advise them to pick up a freaking book and read it.
Day Chart Sun in 7th House, Moon in 4th House is in Sect, but Moon in 4th House in Taurus is in Hayz. Moon in a Feminine Degree is that much stronger; Moon in a Masculine Degree detracts a bit.
Un-freaking-believeable to botch it that badly.
In case anyone hadn't noticed, Astrology is full of hierarchies. There is an hierarchy of charts, just as there is an hierarchy of rulers.
The whole point of being a Nocturnal Planet, is to stay the hell away from the Sun, as far, far away as you can be, and in a chart, that means being on the opposite side of the Earth away from Sun.
You might want to tell Clueless that the reason Mars is a Nocturnal Planet is because he is Hot & Dry and being away from the Sun --- like on the opposite side of the Earth -- gives Mars an even temperament.
Likewise Saturn is Cold & Dry, and being with Sun makes Saturn less Malefic.
I just know someone will ask, "Why is Jupiter a Day Planet?"
Moon...Mercury...Venus...Sun...Mars...Jupiter...Saturn
^^^The answer is right here^^^
The Night Shift Planets --- Venus, Mars and sometimes Mercury report to Moon who is the Night Shift Boss. The Day Shift Crew -- Jupiter, Saturn and sometimes Mercury, report to the Sun.
When the Sun is on-duty as Day Shift Leader, the Masculine Planets -- Mars, Jupiter, Saturn and sometimes Mercury report to Sun.
Anyway, the function of Sect in a chart is all about picking the right person for the job.
By Luck-of-the-Draw, Moon has been chosen to manage your fame and fortune and career.
It is a Night Chart, Moon is Below Horizon with Sun, Moon in 5th House, Moon in Gemini, Moon in a Masculine Degree...
....Moon has 0% competence -- but 100% total incompetence --- to perform the task of managing your fame and fortune and career and will make a total mess out of everything.
Give Mars the same task, make it a Day Chart, with Mars Below Earth in the 5th House in a Masculine Sign and Degree and Mars is 100% competent to perform that task.
Once you have correctly employed Sect to determine if the Planets are capable of performing the tasks they have been given, the next question is will they perform? Planets that are besieged, impeded, Cadent, in Fall or Detriment, Retrograde, not in Reception (received --- granted permission or authority to act) and so on are going to have a very difficult time.
tsmall
Premium Member
Oh my lord, I've worked for way to many people like that.
I think this is the point where I'm going to start printing all your replies out and orgainzing them into a book for reference.
Caro
Well-known member
BZ -Thanks for detailed reply. quite a lot to take in and will take me a while to work through it.
She has a day chart moon (moon in 5th)opposite sun. SN in same sign as moon and NN conjunct Saturn.
Weird' - co-incidences life is like that. (for me) she aint mad. she had a awful trauma a few years ago. Pluto on her desc and pluto squaring natal pluto. oops I did it again!
sorry. (mild case of Tourette's
) Actually when I think of it she had a grand trine in fire at that time(with pluto to her natal Jupiter and sun) - too much firey energy. Proving trines aint all good.
anyways this has hugely impacted her life. and I think she has fled back to her SN. She also is aware that some may think her 'mad'
I thought her mars in Taurus is the key to helping her out of this. She has enough energy to dig a football pitch(aries stellium) but doesn't use it.
anyway thanks for the input.(by the way I did take a look at her SR for this year before I got your reply- a stellium in 12th too)
She has a day chart moon (moon in 5th)opposite sun. SN in same sign as moon and NN conjunct Saturn.
Weird' - co-incidences life is like that. (for me) she aint mad. she had a awful trauma a few years ago. Pluto on her desc and pluto squaring natal pluto. oops I did it again!
sorry. (mild case of Tourette's) Actually when I think of it she had a grand trine in fire at that time(with pluto to her natal Jupiter and sun) - too much firey energy. Proving trines aint all good.anyways this has hugely impacted her life. and I think she has fled back to her SN. She also is aware that some may think her 'mad'
I thought her mars in Taurus is the key to helping her out of this. She has enough energy to dig a football pitch(aries stellium) but doesn't use it.
anyway thanks for the input.(by the way I did take a look at her SR for this year before I got your reply- a stellium in 12th too)
Last edited:
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Very interesting
On planet Earth, i.e. from a Geocentric perspective - the Sun alone determines whether it is day or night
that's simply because the Moon may be seen during the day as well as during the night
whereas THE SUN IS ALWAYS BELOW THE HORIZON AT NIGHT.
'….The Importance of Determining Sect
By Doug Noblehorse
Sect is an astrological doctrine that comes down to us from the Hellenistic era of astrology.
Most importantly, a particular chart’s sect determines how you interpret the chart - by emphasizing either the Sun or the Moon.
At its simplest, a particular chart’s sect, either diurnal or nocturnal, is defined by whether or not the Sun is above or below the horizon.….'
'….If the Sun is above the horizon (a day birth), then the chart is a diurnal chart and emphasizes the status of the Sun, Jupiter and Saturn.
If the Sun is below the horizon (a night chart), then the chart is nocturnal, and the main emphasis falls on the conditions of the Moon, Venus and Mars.
In effect, sect determines which group of planets is in control of the chart, and which group plays more of an advisory role....' http://www.azastrologers.org/Articles/NoblehorseImportanceofDeterminingSect.pdf
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
HELLENISTIC DELINEATION http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43920
So,
Saturn and Jupiter are of the diurnal sect, whether or not that sect is in favour.
Saturn and Jupiter are the Sun’s co-sectarians.
Venus and Mars are of the nocturnal sect, whether or not that sect is in favour.
Venus and Mars are the Moon’s co-sectarians.
Mercury as a morning star is of the diurnal sect, whether or not that sect is in favour.
Mercury as a morning star is the Sun’s co-sectarian, along with Saturn and Jupiter.
Mercury as an evening star is of the nocturnal sect, whether or not that sect is in favour.
Mercury as an evening star is the Moon’s co-sectarian, along with Venus and Mars.
i.e.
If the chart is a day chart, then the diurnal sect is in favour and the Sun is the sect leader and Jupiter and Saturn are the planets of the sect in favour: and if Mercury is a morning star, then Mercury too is of the sect in favour.
If the chart is a night chart, then the nocturnal sect is in favour and the Moon is the sect leader and Venus and Mars are of the sect in favour: and if Mercury is an evening star, then Mercury too is of the sect in favour
So, regarding the horizon:
The diurnal planets are happier if they are above the horizon in a day chart, and below it in a night chart.
Likewise, the nocturnal planets are happier if they are above the horizon in a night chart, and below it in a day chart.
This is not really a condition of sect—it does not define sect in any way. This is only a way to further determine the strength, or mood of any particular planet. And it’s only adding or subtracting mildly from the planet.
So for example:
In a diurnal chart the Sun is the sect light (the leader of the sect), and Jupiter and Saturn are the planets of the Sect.
If Jupiter and Saturn are above the horizon they are really happy.
If below the horizon in the diurnal chart Jupiter and Saturn are still of the diurnal sect—they are still of the sect in favour—but they are not going to be as happy.
And in the same chart if Venus is below the horizon, although she is not of the sect in favour, she is happier, in this diurnal chart, than she would be if she was above the horizon.
What it means when a planet is “out of sect?”
If a planet is out of sect, then it is the wrong time of day for the planet. Saturn and Jupiter are out of sect in night charts, and Venus and Mars are out of sect in day charts.
Mercury as a morning star makes it a diurnal planet, so Mercury is ‘out of sect’ in a night chart
Mercury as an evening star makes it a nocturnal planet, so Mercury is ‘out of sect’ in a day chart.
tsmall
Premium Member
If I'm reading all this correctly, the questions are based on Schmidt's interpretations of the Hellenstic definitions of sect. Schmidt illustrated diurnal and nocturnal as being "of the party in favor." What is left out is that there are other conditions of rejoicing, or sect, that still need to be met. Which is why we end up with hayz and halb.
If a planet is out of sect because of the sect light...so what of it? How do we then interpret it? Exactly how far "out of sect" is it?
Every text I've tried to read, from Valens (from whom Schmidt gets most of his interpretations) to the later Persians, all the way up to Lilly and his contemporaries, want us to look at all the rejoycing conditions of the planets. These conditions do regard if the planet is by its own nature nocturnal or diurnal, but also whether it is in a masculine or feminine sign, degree, rising ahead of or behind the Sun, in which quadrant (and that part I'm still trying to understand...)
There is sect, or fitness in relation to the horizon. Then there is fitness in relation to the lights, and still there is fitness in relation to the zodiac. All of these need to be taken into consideration in determining if a planet is out of sect or not.
If a planet is out of sect because of the sect light...so what of it? How do we then interpret it? Exactly how far "out of sect" is it?
Every text I've tried to read, from Valens (from whom Schmidt gets most of his interpretations) to the later Persians, all the way up to Lilly and his contemporaries, want us to look at all the rejoycing conditions of the planets. These conditions do regard if the planet is by its own nature nocturnal or diurnal, but also whether it is in a masculine or feminine sign, degree, rising ahead of or behind the Sun, in which quadrant (and that part I'm still trying to understand...)
There is sect, or fitness in relation to the horizon. Then there is fitness in relation to the lights, and still there is fitness in relation to the zodiac. All of these need to be taken into consideration in determining if a planet is out of sect or not.
Last edited:
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
“Being in sect” or “Being in the sect of favour” is simply that planets are happiest if they are in an area of a natal chart that is in sync with their sect
So, for example, a nocturnal Mars is not going to be too happy in a diurnal chart and a diurnal Saturn is not going to be too happy in a nocturnal chart.
Robert Schmidt of Project hindsight explains as an example that in politics, two sects such as the Republicans and the Democrats each want to be in power and are unhappy and could potentially cause disruption for the other elected opposition party.
In the booklet "Night & Day, Planetary sect in Astrology", Robert Hand writes on page 6, second paragraph:
"Although no ancient writing ever states this explicitly,
it would seem from these writings that the most important of these relationships is that a planet is of the same sect as the chart.
Diurnal planets work best in diurnal charts and nocturnal planets in nocturnal charts. That the condition of the chart is the most important of these three sect factors can be inferred from the fact that many of the Greek texts only mention the charts diurnal or nocturnal status in relation to the sect of the planet.
Little is said about the agreement of the sect of the planet with that of the sign or placement"
So, for example, a nocturnal Mars is not going to be too happy in a diurnal chart and a diurnal Saturn is not going to be too happy in a nocturnal chart.
Robert Schmidt of Project hindsight explains as an example that in politics, two sects such as the Republicans and the Democrats each want to be in power and are unhappy and could potentially cause disruption for the other elected opposition party.
In the booklet "Night & Day, Planetary sect in Astrology", Robert Hand writes on page 6, second paragraph:
"Although no ancient writing ever states this explicitly,
it would seem from these writings that the most important of these relationships is that a planet is of the same sect as the chart.
Diurnal planets work best in diurnal charts and nocturnal planets in nocturnal charts. That the condition of the chart is the most important of these three sect factors can be inferred from the fact that many of the Greek texts only mention the charts diurnal or nocturnal status in relation to the sect of the planet.
Little is said about the agreement of the sect of the planet with that of the sign or placement"
The term sign is not used in Hellenistic astrology, because in the modern astrological sense, a sign has an archetypal association behind it, but a zoidion does not.
Instead, the use of the zoidia seem to be primarily based on
(a) duality, masculine/feminine:
(b) triplicity, cardinal - the beginning of a season - fixed - the middle of a season - and mutable - the end of a season -
and (c) quadruplicity, elemental quality of earth, fire, air, and water.
There is a distinct difference between the archetypal signs of modern astrology, and the zoidia of Hellenistic astrology.
Therefore, it is important to distinguish between the two, by using different terminology
because a zoidion is a section of the zodiac that provides the manner of emanation for a planets action.
Robert Schmidt wrote three pages in the Project Hindsight translator’s preface of Vettius Valens The Anthology Book I and on the word zoidion, he says that it means “place for life.”
The root word zoion has two meanings - 'living thing' and 'picture': it is a transliteration of ζῷον, meaning 'living being' or 'animal'. It is thus the root of 'zoology' and all related terms.
The Greeks apparently viewed the constellations of the zodiac as places in which the gods lived and thought differently of the constellations from the way we think of the constellations today.
Today, we view the constellations as random sets of stars that mankind anthropomorphized into human and animal shapes - but the Greeks believed that they were a kind of “celestial artwork, ” created by the gods as dwelling places. So, they are dwelling places, or pictures, of the living gods.
The word Zoion has a relation to human life as well as animal life and the Greeks believed these zoidion or places actually had a living force, soul or spirit within the constellations
tsmall
Premium Member
These tenets of astrology are most important.
The Sun’s nature is to select
The Moon’s nature is to gather and include
Mercury’s nature is to contest and to destabilize
Venus’ nature is to reconcile and to unify
Mars’ nature is to sever and to separate
Jupiter’s nature is to confirm and stabilize
Saturn’s nature is to reject and exclude
Ok, so what does a planet out of sect imply, and how do we interpret it in a chart?
The Sun’s nature is to select
The Moon’s nature is to gather and include
Mercury’s nature is to contest and to destabilize
Venus’ nature is to reconcile and to unify
Mars’ nature is to sever and to separate
Jupiter’s nature is to confirm and stabilize
Saturn’s nature is to reject and exclude
Ok, so what does a planet out of sect imply, and how do we interpret it in a chart?
Last edited:
Caro
Well-known member
example of Aries sun.
Day chart. sun above horizon - tick. in masculine sign - tick. in masculine house(11th) - tick. degree 22 aries- where do I find masculine or feminie degrees.?
Saturn in aries - tick tick tick. 18 degrees
Jupiter in leo tick but in feminine house so untick. - bit dodgy. trines sun though. this causes her problems.
moon opposite(born on full moon and eclipse)
interestingly she has been a teacher and a hairdresser.
in her case though mars is difficult to work with in a constructive way(in 12th)
My chart nocturnal. moon below the horizon - therefore out of sect! is that it am I doomed? (it is in feminine sign/house exalted - not sure about degree)
Day chart. sun above horizon - tick. in masculine sign - tick. in masculine house(11th) - tick. degree 22 aries- where do I find masculine or feminie degrees.?
Saturn in aries - tick tick tick. 18 degrees
Jupiter in leo tick but in feminine house so untick. - bit dodgy. trines sun though. this causes her problems.
moon opposite(born on full moon and eclipse)
interestingly she has been a teacher and a hairdresser.
in her case though mars is difficult to work with in a constructive way(in 12th)
My chart nocturnal. moon below the horizon - therefore out of sect! is that it am I doomed? (it is in feminine sign/house exalted - not sure about degree)
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
AT
ZODIAC DEGREE INFLUENCES http://www.skyscript.co.uk/deginf1.html
QUOTE:
'....The 5th column headed 'G.' (for 'gender')
indicates whether the degree is masculine or feminine according to Lilly's
'Two necessary TABLES of the Signs, fit to be understood by every ASTROLOGER or Practitioner' (CA., p.116).
Consideration of whether the Moon and principle significator falls in a masculine or feminine degree is used in horary matters relating to the sex of a thief or unborn child.....'
'...The scheme is also presented in Al Biruni's Elements (v.457) with the following variances (marked in the table by an asterick):
In Aries, the 8th degree is marked as female, not male.
In Aquarius, the 13th, 14th, 15th, 28th, 29th and 30th degrees are classified as male not female. The 19th, 20th, 21st, 26th and 27th degrees are classified as female not male.
In Pisces, the 13th, 14th, 15th, 24th, 25th, 26th, 27th and 28th degrees are denoted male not female.
Al Biruni makes it clear he is presenting the method, not approving of its use.....'
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
When the SUN is below the horizon THEN it is night time and the Moon is in sect.
The Sun is ALWAYS out of sect in a nocturnal chart
The fact that the Moon is better placed above the horizon in a nocturnal chart is not really a condition of sect
as it does not define sect in any way and is only a way to further determine the strength, or mood of any particular planet.
And it’s only adding or subtracting mildly from the planet.
However, just because it is below the horizon, the Moon CANNOT 'be out of sect in a nocturnal chart'!