Gemini888
Well-known member
I see. So it could be how you're drawn to the I Ching's structure. I like how I Ching consists of lines and shapes and Saturn is into those things.
Random Thoughts, strictly Text
- Thread starter david starling
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Ukpoohbear
Well-known member
Yeah, I do hope you will find another job. And it was just because your old boss made a mistake! I could suggest you ask a horary question but seeing that you're stressed right now the last thing you would want to hear is more bad news. I think you should take some time to calm down. Pray for the God you were talking about if you can. Or even ask for guidance from your Tarot. Just some things you can do to cope with all the disappointment.
On a brighter note, at least you still have some time to go to AW and chat with people
Yes I asked horary a couple weeks ago because the job had been delayed and it didn’t look overly positive, although the job did was strong and my sig was strong. So when she phoned and told me, I ahd already a heads up from horary
ALSO I was speaking to someone from a fb astrology group who is very good at astrology. He mentioned he thinks he was a soldier in a pat life who had succumbed to alcoholism and I asked him to look at my chart for a past life and what he said was mind-blowing and made my issues about family and men very clear to me.
This all happened within the same weekend as all this drama. Both the drama and the random insight from a past life.
The universe kicked my *** for not having strong enough boundaries and gave me further insight to myself.
Last night, I caught up on sleep and feel back to normal.
The universe has helped me and it’s all came from within my own psyche. I just need to up my boundaries. Plus a little disappointment in life with the job is normal.
That’s how I usually process things, from within my own psyche and it’s very rare I would consult the bible. Even when I did it 3/4 years ago it was with the attitude of ‘ok let’s see what I find if anything.’ But mostly, everything you need is from within and working on yourself.
The previous work I have done on myself has matured me and made disappointments much easier to handle, I feel like a woman who has inner strength and not a little girl who is lost.
I feel good!! Although ****, it was a good job I was offered but horary gave me the heads up so no sudden shock.
I’m feeling good and capable of forging ahead. Like a warrior
Gemini888
Well-known member
In 12H and in Pisces. And recently I seem to realize that my Saturn is getting stronger. Could be that it is approaching a sextile to transit Pluto. I started to have a taste for people who can do scientific study out of "abstract" things. Last year I finished Edwin Shneidman's A Suicidal Mind. The man wrote the book during the time when suicide was seen as side-effect of a myriad of things like depression. So the man proposed a new idea that we should treat suicide as a cause by itself, resulting in a more humane look into suicide and psychology in general. And now I'm reading Michael Eigen's The Psychotic Core. The general idea is that madness is actually the "shadow" part of the human mind and there needs to be a different way to look at it rather than charting it up into the biased "normal vs mad" category. These are just some things to demonstrate how my Saturn currently works, creating structure out of chaos.
How about your Saturn?
conspiracy theorist
Well-known member
There's a non trivial amount of websites that actually have decent information, but you won't see them if you do a shallow search. Recently it seems that even the blogs are stepping up their game because I see them culling from legitimate sources.
I can't tell you an exact date, but it seemed to have occurred last century, when the "astrological alphabet" became the dominant viewpoint of sign/house interrelationship. (Aries = 1st house = Mars). It seems established that it was the astrologer Zipporah Dobyns that popularized it.
moonkat235
Well-known member
Random Thought Process:
"Madness is the shadow"
1. I haven't read Carl Jung, but I assume the shadow is the rejected part of the self. Under that assumption, is madness rejected by most 'normal people' because the general population rejects their shadow?
2. If the shadow is the unintegrated aspect of self, I wonder what 'self' even is and then I thought about how language shapes our reality. Like 'self' seems like a word to contain and distinguish some nebulous thing that I can't quite put my finger on.
3. And then if one consciously accepts the non-shadow self, do they reject 'madness' because they can't consciously relate it to their own individual experience?
4. Mostly, I was writing down antonyms, because they kept popping into my head as I was thinking about the above quote.
Separation & Distinction
Self & Other
Individual & Collective
Order & Disorder
Health/Wellness & Unhealthy/Diseased
Normal & Abnormal/Anomaly
Universal & Personal
5. And then I went down the whole spiral that always happens to me when I get on these tangents, which is, as always:
What is 'real'?
6. I feel like collective agreement and head-nodding on personal experiences as 'universal' is basically what 'normal' is, but that's definitely an oversimplification and I don't really know if that means anything or chips away at the BS to get to the core of what I'm 'asking'. Anyway, I have no idea where I'm going with this, but I want to ask something. Like I feel very deeply that I want to know something, but I can't even begin to articulate what I really want or what need I want fulfilled.
conspiracy theorist
Well-known member
The Jungian self is actually not divided along a self vs. other axis, as it is actually the totality of the individual's psyche. Think of it like the symbol of the Tao, instead of just either the yin or the yang aspect of it.
More from this little article.
https://frithluton.com/articles/self/
More from this little article.
https://frithluton.com/articles/self/
moonkat235
Well-known member
Oh also, the 'Psychotic Core' title made me think of this Ted Talk by Eleanor Longden on her experience with schizophrenia.
"My voices were a meaningful response to traumatic life events, particularly childhood events, and as such were not my enemies but a source of insight into solvable emotional problems."
Eleanor Longden - The voices in my head
"My voices were a meaningful response to traumatic life events, particularly childhood events, and as such were not my enemies but a source of insight into solvable emotional problems."
Eleanor Longden - The voices in my head
moonkat235
Well-known member
Thanks dude, reading now.
Gemini888
Well-known member
My discovery of Michael Eigen was a pure coincidence. I was searching for a book about depression, and then somehow that book came up. I read the description and at first I thought it was just a book about psychosis, but I was interested enough to order it. And as soon as I read the foreword I realized that this is more than just a book about psychosis. And I was like "That's definitely the kind of book I want to readI didn't tell you much about my Saturn in Virgo 12H because yours is so interesting
Does Pisces Saturn square your Gemini Sun? And your Aries Moon is in 12th? I think my Moon is at your Asc.
"I have always been interested in how 12H Saturn in other signs works, especially in my opposite sign of Virgo. There seems to be a lot of Virgo in here, health, science, analysis... How do you think 12H shapes Virgo's perception?
And yeah, Pisces Saturn squares my Merc, just another heavyweight for my Merc to carry (it already squares Chiron too). Moon is only 1 deg to Asc that I think it lies more in 1H than 12H. My Asc is 25 deg btw.
Gemini888
Well-known member
Merc is my chart's final dispositor, so Saturn and Chiron really influence Merc. For a long time before I started serious astrology learning I wondered at times why I don't have some of the signature Gemini traits like adaptability or overly friendliness, and it saddened me that I wasn't a "real" Gem. I'm pretty sure now it's Saturn and Chiron's doing. They are in a T-square with Merc as the focal point btw. You are a Sag so maybe you don't feel so strongly about Merc like a Gem, your concern is more about Jupiter I suppose
The signs of Merc/Saturn could be important in this dynamic. In my case Gem is at odd with Pisces. So one minute I could be super cerebral and the next minute I could be highly emotional. I wonder how Sag and Virgo work for you. Maybe a struggle between being careful and being candid?
My mom is an Aqua Sun and Moon, but she has a fair share of Aries placements as well (at least according to her rectified chart). I have always had a love-hate relationship with her. I love her, but there are some things about her that I just can't stand, a lot of Aries-like things. In the end she is quite endearing, and she could be even more so if she learns to listen more and change some of those Aries things. Idk if the Aries things are because of my Asc being torn between the 12H and 1H or not.
Gemini888
Well-known member
I'm sorry that I can't really comment on any of these, because tbh I'm just getting started with that book
So far what I got from the book is just some old theories about madness, mostly from Freud and Jung. The author of the book is outlining the background of his own theory to come, and according to him Freud really supported the idea that madness is part of the human mind. He actually took inspiration from another German psychologist who went mad for some time. That German man seemed to have seen the 12H version of the world and ended up adopting spirituality for his work. The book also talks about some things from Freud's discovery of narcissism and dreams to further support the theory. Yeah, the book mostly talks about Freud. Jung is just there as a background character But in the foreword, the author proposed a term called "kernel of psychosis". He promised to go into it in later chapters, but he briefly introduced it as the combination of human's two versions of self, for example the real self vs the perceived self or the "Self & Other" thing you said. And in the beginning of first chapter he did say that madness is a raw expression of several underlying psychological aspects. In other words, madness isn't exactly something to be afraid of, once you understand it properly.
So yeah, just a brief summary of what I got from the book so far.
SunConjunctUranus
Well-known member
My friend, O Supreme Jesus Christ said:"Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you (falsely) because of me."
He also said:"If you forgive others their transgressions, your heavenly Father will forgive you."
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__PVF.HTM
I forgive you.
Ukpoohbear
Well-known member
In Hindu philosophy the word ‘mad’ is used to describe the sin called ego.
david starling
Well-known member
Passiflora, what's your assessment of the Ego/Id/Superego construct? (Not about Freud himself, but about his well-known but difficult-to-explain model of how our minds function.) With Saturn in Virgo in H12, your insights are valuable.
david starling
Well-known member
Passiflora, this post prompted the qu to which you gave a good, solid answer. Maybe the Superego is the cause of "sin".
moonkat235
Well-known member
I'm sorry that I can't really comment on any of these, because tbh I'm just getting started with that book
But in the foreword, the author proposed a term called "kernel of psychosis". He promised to go into it in later chapters, but he briefly introduced it as the combination of human's two versions of self, for example the real self vs the perceived self or the "Self & Other" thing you said. And in the beginning of first chapter he did say that madness is a raw expression of several underlying psychological aspects. In other words, madness isn't exactly something to be afraid of, once you understand it properly.
So yeah, just a brief summary of what I got from the book so far.
Yeah definitely keep me posted as you read through it! I'm swamped with homework and school/work at the moment, but I appreciate how you offered on discord to update me as you read chapter by chapter. Thank you!
"Kernal of Psychosis" sounds intriguing btw!
Psychosis and 'madness' is a haunting topic for me, because of my own experiences. I used to joke that I'm clinically crazy and had the paperwork to prove it, what with my diagnosis and all. I'm gonna follow up with my psychiatrist soon to talk about my psychotic episodes, etc. and what he thinks about them now that it's been about a year. I still get paranoid sometimes, but overall, I think I'm doing pretty well!
Gemini888
Well-known member
My Chiron is in Virgo and in 6H. It could have made contact with my Sag Jupiter and create a grand cross for my chart, but the orb is too wide. A bullet dodged?
I didn't think about the culture thing, but it could be a reason why. I remember feeling deeply ashamed for being chatty at one point, and part of the reason was me being teased for saying inappropriate thing. I could have agreed with the Internet thing, but then again some people irl say that I'm cheerful and adaptable, similar to what you think of me. So I guess that my personality is pretty consistent to some degree, Internet or not. The only difference is that I don't talk about death and stuff irl
I also have Neptune on MC, so there could be a disconnect between how I see myself and how the world see me
That's actually a difficult question. I don't really associate 12H with my family. My family is pretty supportive of me in general, though Dad can be a bit spaced out sometimes. My biggest grief comes from my extended family, with my narcissistic aunts and cousins. I was the butt of the joke during family gathering and it ****** my childhood up real bad. I don't know which placement signifies extended family, though my experience with my extended family was extremely 12H Saturn to me (denied maturity, fear from nowhere, isolation...)
SunConjunctUranus
Well-known member
@hermes geocentric? Siriusly?
Ukpoohbear
Well-known member
Rudi stop breaking the rules strictly text only!
strictly text only!SunConjunctUranus
Well-known member
See, how silly the teaching of hermes was, you know?