Horary should be illegal

Oddity said:

I think you need to remember that this board is populated largely by amateurs, and also - about 80%+ of the questions asked are not proper horary. Nor are they properly asked.

So...based on a bunch of astrology enthusiasts not getting predictions correct, you want us to have the same laws about astrology here as they do in Saudi? Nice.

I've found most personality analysis by modern astrology to be anywhere from misleading to downright harmful, so I engage in very little of it. If you feel horary is harmful, don't engage in it.
Or start reading Masha'allah, Sahl, Bonatti, ibn Ezra, al Kindi.
What they were doing, you don't often see here,
but it will show you how it ought to be done.

Arguably, horary is one of the more simple forms of astrology. But people tend to not ask the real question, let bias get in the way, use horary when they should be looking at mundane, etc.

Or if astrology in general offends you - don't practise astrology.

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Masha'allah, Sahl, Bonatti, ibn Ezra, al Kindi et al
translated by Benjamin Dykes at http://www.bendykes.com/forty.php

Oddity said:

I think you need to remember that this board is populated largely by amateurs, and also - about 80%+ of the questions asked are not proper horary. Nor are they properly asked.

So...based on a bunch of astrology enthusiasts not getting predictions correct, you want us to have the same laws about astrology here as they do in Saudi? Nice.

I've found most personality analysis by modern astrology to be anywhere from misleading to downright harmful, so I engage in very little of it. If you feel horary is harmful, don't engage in it. Or start reading Masha'allah, Sahl, Bonatti, ibn Ezra, al Kindi. What they were doing, you don't often see here, but it will show you how it ought to be done.

Arguably, horary is one of the more simple forms of astrology. But people tend to not ask the real question, let bias get in the way, use horary when they should be looking at mundane, etc.

Or if astrology in general offends you - don't practise astrology.

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I think that reading transits is way "easier" than horary, just because u dont need to learn any new rule to interpret them. Using the word "easy" is very demeaning for practices that require an extreme in-sight and a lot of time to get aquainted to them. Ive just used the word sight, i think its essential to make any reading, u need to SEE (in english lang its even used to mean "i understand"= i see) before you can SAY. This means you have to see, before you can tell...and thats not for amateurs, neither for anyone (again, see under ethics); indeed i dont believe its impossible to make predictions, it just requires so much insight and efforts, to get them right, that its better to not discount the all process with horary "simple" tekniques, as u say. You suggested all of these people, but they're so old... so many things have changed from those times, and what they said was so much circumsribed to their society, that those interpretations result outdated, now. Not to count that transists indicate dispositions, latent energies and possible areas of interest, not certain specific answers about what is gonna happen. Such a practice requires u to think that we human beings have no control upon our lives... thats just plain nonsense to me.

@ilenek
Hmm. Youve spent the last 3 messages to attack me, when i tried to explain myself... maybe im not the only fighter in here?

aleth3ia said:

I think that reading transits is way "easier" than horary, just because u dont need to learn any new rule to interpret them. Using the word "easy" is very demeaning for practices that require an extreme in-sight and a lot of time to get aquainted to them. Ive just used the word sight, i think its essential to make any reading, u need to SEE (in english lang its even used to mean "i understand"= i see) before you can SAY. This means you have to see, before you can tell...indeed i dont believe its impossible to make predictions, it just requires so much insight and efforts, to get them right, that its better to not discount the all process with horary "simple" tekniques, as u say. You suggested all of these people, but they're so old... so many things have changed from those times, and what they said was so much circumsribed to their society, that those interpretations result outdated, now. Not to count that transists indicate dispositions, latent energies and possible areas of interest, not certain answers about what is gonna happen. Such a practice requires u to think that we human beings have no whatsover control upon our lives... thats just plain nonsense to me.

@ilenek
Hmm. Youve spent the last 3 messages to attack me, when i tried to explain myself... maybe im not the only fighter in here?

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Think of Horary as a sort of weather report. It doesn't mean you can't do something, or something won't work out well, but that the Astrologically-determined conditions are or aren't optimal. We all know about Mercury-retrograde being an adverse condition for travel, contracts, and communication--doesn't mean you can't do those things, just that "caution is advised". Horary does rely on what Jung called "Synchronicity", whereby the actual moment a question is asked is given extreme importance.

aleth3ia said:

Isn't the whole point of horary about answering a given question? That implies that no matter what you'll do, it'll turn out like that. Hm, no I don't agree with this.

Isn't the whole point of making horary questions.......

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You are talking about predictions done on a free site by amateur astrologers and very frequent and obsesive bored posters, which more often than not do not follow the proper guidelines.

If you want an accurate answer, readings should not be done on self cast charts, they should not be given to posters that make multiple charts each week, and should not be free (the fact it costs nothing makes people ask about things they don't even care about).

This forum section is more of a practice site, for people to learn. Thus a high degree of innacuracy is expected.

As for the matter of free will: horary is not the one that determines what will happen. You are. Horary just shows you how the situation you ask about will unfold as it was decided by the querent and quesited.

To give you an example: if a person does not love the querent, its not the stars that decide that factor, they simply show the reality of the situation.

aleth3ia said:

Isn't the whole point of making horary questions, about knowing the future as well? Hm, ok, then, given that most good astrologers can't achieve such accuracy, if not by the same chance you'd have by tossing up a coin, then the answers should not be trusted. And that's just amazing to me, yay free will!

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The basis of this example si that you are asking horary what to do about a certain situation. This is not how horary works.

Horary shows you how things unfold, but you can't really ask "should I do this or do that?" that is still up to you. The chart provies an answer of the outcomes on the particular context of what you may find beneficial for yourself, but the choice is still yours.

Most people rely on the chart to make the choice for them, which as I said before, is not a proper use of horary.

Maybe you are at some stage with a chart that presents an option between two jobs. In one you will become rich and unhappy, in the other poor but will have a happy family. The chart will merely show you both options. If choose an option that doesn't appeal to you in the end, its not the charts fault.

aleth3ia said:

But since there are people that instead believe in those answers, and there are even people that are on a thin line between life and death all the time, that, it's true maybe that it's all written in the sky already and we have no responsibility in our materialistic means, like you say; but it's even true that you can help your own destiny, or in some cases, even destroy yourself, when none would have guessed that to happen, not even the stars... (the irony is that your own defeat could even be your best luck ever, and the other way around). This is just to say that an answer, said by someone we trust, can mean more that what we intended, and can even shape the so called destiny, that anyway, is a series of uncountable steps along which we recognize some major events.... but it's steps that WE make, influenced by the stars, sure, along with 10 hundreds other things, the words we listen influence us as well, etc... it all has a consequence. Even a bad prediction. (Letting alone all the bad fame for astrology since so many important predictions are wrong!)

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But something in your biological impulse is making the querent ask the chart in the first place. Thus the trigger for the series of events that proceed still originate from the querent's will. You are also the one that chooses to either ignore or follow what the chart says.

aleth3ia said:

Now if I rely on someone about the future, in the areas I'm very interested in, and for which I'm then very supsceptible, or even, like for the Manchester thread, in most mundane areas where you're supposed to have no control (but you're there anyway, it's you there, isn't it a choice, somehow?), I'll trust the response.
Say I ask, "should I visit this place the next month? is it safe?" and the answer is "yes go!", then I'll go, and if I die because the astrologer was actually wrong and there's a terroristic attack, then is it destiny? Of course it is lol, but that astrologer was a bit nuts. Could I have avoided that?
Hm maybe, if the astrologer gave me right answer. If I ask "is he in love with me?" and he tells me "no way", while instead the guy I like is mad in love with me, but happens to be a lame nerd who has never approached anyone, shy as hell, and will never talk to me, so I'll never know... because I already believed what an astrologer told me. Silly examples... but they happen daily. And they're kinda dangerous.

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[/QUOTE]

Its a matter of technique, good medium and bad. This is why you don't ask important questions on an amateur astrology forum.

aleth3ia said:

Why do bad predictions happen on a regular basis I wonder, while the astrological chart analysis tend to ring true most of the times?
Are you really sure you can predict the future, as if it's all a matter of stars design? I had predicted the victory of Trump in the last elections, without using any wheels, just a little sense.
I told that to people close to me, I didn't hit the news with that, why would I want to influence someone, not knowing myself how it can turn out?

Yeah, we can all predict doom and the flames of hell, but no one with a 50 years old experience with human beings would do that, because, let's just hope something better is gonna happen! Even if the signals are all bad...

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Anything can be predicted by common sense, astrology is not needed for everything. The reason you see so many idiotic questions here is because its free, and people post out of boredom.

[OTE=Dirius;793021]You are talking about predictions done on a free site by amateur astrologers and very frequent and obsesive bored posters, which more often than not do not follow the proper guidelines.

If you want an accurate answer, readings should not be done on self cast charts, they should not be given to posters that make multiple charts each week, and should not be free (the fact it costs nothing makes people ask about things they don't even care about).

This forum section is more of a practice site, for people to learn. Thus a high degree of innacuracy is expected.

As for the matter of free will: horary is not the one that determines what will happen. You are. Horary just shows you how the situation you ask about will unfold as it was decided by the querent and quesited.

To give you an example: if a person does not love the querent, its not the stars that decide that factor, they simply show the reality of the situation.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for both your answers, dirius and david. You made many interesting points to ponder on, i liked the idea of a destiny that is just particular for each one of us, for we're all different, and the same transit of saturn in first house can be perceived as a burden for some, while other benefit the most out of such "restrictions". Correct me if im wrong, i dont think horary takes into account the natal chart, while with transits it's a given, and that just reflects how everything is perceived and lived differently, even the same "bad" aspect that occurs in the same time to 2 totally different people. So i dont see how the same planets, with horary, have the possibility to be read esclusively in one way, although of course, the same house and the planets can mean differents areas in horary as well, but they wont be analyzed depending on the natal/person... so how is synchronicity working in here, if not by embracing the notion of predetermination?
I dont agree with the idea of being paid in order to acquire more respectability, im facing this problem right now because people around me keep asking me for readings, and although i can spend 24hours straight with no sleep in order to understand what its all about, id feel like a thief if i had to ask for a cent. I realize this is not possible for someone who had to this for a living, but the reading doesnt gain value over how much u ask for it... hmmm idk

aleth3ia said:

I dont agree with the idea of being paid in order to acquire more respectability, im facing this problem right now because people around me keep asking me for readings, and although i can spend 24hours straight with no sleep in order to understand what its all about, id feel like a thief if i had to ask for a cent. I realize this is not possible for someone who had to this for a living, but the reading doesnt gain value over how much u ask for it.

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Its not because of profit or money gain. Its because when something is free people see no value on it, and ask any kind of things.

Many questions here are cast out of curiosity rather than necesity. And people end up asking questions such as:"should I buy the black or red dress?"

Now, if a person had to pay $200 bucks for an horary reading (as some profesionals charge), you wouldn't really ask silly questions. You would only spend that amount of money on important questions you really need to know. Things such as:"is my husband planning on divorcing me?", not on questions about clothing.

Maybe I forgot to mention this, but the absolute first rule of horary is that you need to ask stuff you really wish to know about. That is why we have the considerations before judgement. Something that is not followed at all here.

Horary on this board is treated as a fun smartphone app to have fun with. Its like an addon for tinder to know if the people that gave you a like is a good or bad person (ironically, we've had questions about tinder...). Horary should not be used this way.

Dirius said:

Its not because of profit or money gain. Its because when something is free people see no value on it, and ask any kind of things.

Many questions here are cast out of curiosity rather than necesity. And people end up asking questions such as:"should I buy the black or red dress?"

Now, if a person had to pay $200 bucks for an horary reading (as some profesionals charge), you wouldn't really ask silly questions. You would only spend that amount of money on important questions you really need to know. Things such as:"is my husband planning on divorcing me?", not on questions about clothing.

Maybe I forgot to mention this, but the absolute first rule of horary is that you need to ask stuff you really wish to know about. That is why we have the considerations before judgement. Something that is not followed at all here.

Horary on this board is treated as a fun smartphone app to have fun with. Its like an addon for tinder to know if the people that gave you a like is a good or bad person (ironically, we've had questions about tinder...). Horary should not be used this way.

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aha, adore the passion u put in this! Hm, maybe if astrologers were more concerned of their work instead of wtv, we wouldnt have that much trivia. But as u said, this is for practising...and fun. Ok fine. If that doesnt expect to turn the norm, or everything will lose value indeed.
To me the horary method is very similar to a tarot spread, its quite fascinating and can be used qs a fun tool, but not something to be relayed on... if u had to ask for a yes or no answer, ud have the same chances by tossing a coin. And that at least wouldnt be biased by anything

aleth3ia said:

aha, adore the passion u put in this! Hm, maybe if astrologers were more concerned of their work instead of wtv, we wouldnt have that much trivia. But as u said, this is for practising...and fun. Ok fine. If that doesnt expect to turn the norm, or everything will lose value indeed.
To me the horary method is very similar to a tarot spread, its quite fascinating and can be used qs a fun tool, but not something to be relayed on... if u had to ask for a yes or no answer, ud have the same chances by tossing a coin. And that at least wouldnt be biased by anything

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Most questions are not yes or no questions. Most charts can show details that are not even mentioned on the question. A good example is missing item questions. You are reducing your examples to "does he love me yes or no?". Granted, that is 99% of the questions asked around here.

This is a question posted here a long time ago about a missing item, I analysed it myself.

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=81429

I would like your opinion on it. See my answer to the poster, see her response. There isn't much room for bias on lost item questions, either they find the item or not, and the details (which lead the querent to find it) are accurate or not.

aleth3ia said:

aha, adore the passion u put in this! Hm, maybe if astrologers were more concerned of their work instead of wtv, we wouldnt have that much trivia. But as u said, this is for practising...and fun. Ok fine. If that doesnt expect to turn the norm, or everything will lose value indeed.
To me the horary method is very similar to a tarot spread, its quite fascinating and can be used qs a fun tool, but not something to be relayed on... if u had to ask for a yes or no answer, ud have the same chances by tossing a coin. And that at least wouldnt be biased by anything

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I DON'T agree with this at all, ive had some VERY accurate answers through horary. One helped me out tremendously as i was then able to move on and not expect him back....a guy i was seeing things suddenly took a down turn and sort of ended, but this had happened before so i was still thinking he could be back......UNTIL i cast a horary and seen his significator at 29 degrees pisces, this degree in pisces is about permanent endings.

Soon as i seen this, i knew it was 100% over, where i was then able to move on. Never seen or heard from him since and that's been 4 months ago now.

If your know what you're looking for in a chart, then they can be very accurate.....not just for fun at all, they're nothing like tossing a coin.

Ive even found a lost phone in the house with a horary chart, located a missing parcel last week, and i've done a few charts for others and they've been true.

Plus i also read Tarot, and once again its if you can read the cards or not that gives them their accuracy. And once again, if i ever do tarot readings they are very accurate, and actually my playing card readings are even more accurate.

You've just got to know what you're doing, horary, cards, whatever.

Ok dirius, touchè. That was quite impressive, well done. maybe i could attribute such an accuracy to a lucky coincidence or perhaps, just that, if u didnt drop that lost object anywhere, and had already scanned most known places u can think of... at some point the object must come out, probably from all those places u didnt consider before... but your reading was still impressive, i might ask u for one, watch out...

Dear chrisalys, 4 **** months? What a jerk is that?! Ok sorry... i do like tarots too and they gave me astonishing results in the past... but i explain that by thinking that if i have enough knowledge of the situation questioned, it will be easy for me to interpret the cards in the most appropriate ways for me to fit into it... its true that the more we know the more in tune we get with the tools, and if u re being personally involved in the situation ull make the symbols just fit to ur desires or fears or wtv...

aleth3ia said:

Ok dirius, touchè. That was quite impressive, well done. maybe i could attribute such an accuracy to a lucky coincidence or perhaps, just that, if u didnt drop that lost object anywhere, and had already scanned most known places u can think of... at some point the object must come out, probably from all those places u didnt consider before... but your reading was still impressive, i might ask u for one, watch out...

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I use that chart as a particular example to show that you can extract high levels of accurate information regarding the lost object and its conditions.

I agree with what you say that in any case the probability of getting the right answer is essentially a 50% chance, so saying that "yes you will find the item" and then having the querent find it does not provide reliable proof of horary.

However, it would have been imposible to just get lucky and provide accurate information on the location and surroundings of the items:
- being on a "high" place (closet shelf)
- being surrounded by "girl stuff" (items Venus rules).

Just as easily the item could have been on the floor below a couch (earth sign), on a box with old tools (Mars items), placed around her computer (Mercury items), etc.

It is the degree of accuracy that you can extract from one single chart what provides certain proof of Horary working.

And obviously the "yes the querent will find the papers" part.

Sometimes we get it right, many times we get charts wrong. It is also worth mentioning that not all charts are on equal level despite being related to questions of similar nature, some are easy and straight foward, others are messy and hard.

The other thing is that, unfortuntly, this section does not have proper guidelines to provide an accurate reading on the first place.

- People that don't know (or barely know) horary should not be casting charts.

- People that barely know horary should not be reading hard charts, or at least their judgement on the chart should be taken as an opinion only.

- Anyone can make a mistake amateur or pro.

- Querents should only ask important questions to them, not silly things because they are bored and know that they can get an answer.

When I mentioned the money issue, its because by getting readings for free (without cost), people will just mass produce pointless charts whose outcome they don't really care about. For example, instead of asking one chart alone about the guy they really like, they ask 30 charts about every guy they meet. Instead of asking a chart about a real problem, they ask charts about every silly little thing that happens on their daily lives.

The first principle of Horary is that a person truly needs to know the answer because it is important to them, not just because they have the opportunity to ask. If people "abuse" horary, they get much less reliable charts that may not provide a concrete answer.

Horary is not a phone app to turn for every single thing. It should be treated with respect. Otherwise, it does not work.

tikana said:

Wth have u been smoking????

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and do you have any left over??

rojochispa said:

and do you have any left over??

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yeah i just mowed a grass a lot of weed .. lol

catowm said:

umm, I personally do not believe in transits to do predictions.. I think it's necessary combine them with another method. Actually I have these transits:

Pluto in exact opposition with my natal mars (Ascendant's ruler, planet most aspected and important in my chart)

Pluto in exact conjunction with my 3rd house
Pluto sextile ascendant and mercury.

and I did not have any kind of transformation or destruction in my life, I feel like all the days.

I prefer horary, most of the questions I asked were answered with accuracy in this forum, also people help others for free, they don't have the obligation to respond our posts but they do it.

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Could joining the Community be construed as a 3rd House transformation?

catowm said:

I feel attracted to shady stuff, maybe I will visit you in jail to contraband horary questions

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My state allows weed.. funny thing is I never smoked that ****

hahahhahah epic... i can imagine .. meeting day .. everyone piles up and sticks the chart on the glass ... TIKI read my horary..

catowm said:

umm, I personally do not believe in transits to do predictions.. I think it's necessary combine them with another method. Actually I have these transits:

Pluto in exact opposition with my natal mars (Ascendant's ruler, planet most aspected and important in my chart)

Pluto in exact conjunction with my 3rd house
Pluto sextile ascendant and mercury.

and I did not have any kind of transformation or destruction in my life, I feel like all the days

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that actually doesnt surprise me, pluto is never showy and its changes are the deepest and take years to be realized

@Dirius

I need your help. I've cast a reading a few days ago with the Q. "is he cheating on me?". It was a very felt question, made in the dead of the night for doubts were eating me, well, the result was kinda cool. First house (Taurus) and seventh house (Scorpio) rulers were just creating harmonic aspects, and no sign of intromission from other planets as well.
The Moon (Aquarius) rulers instead in 8th (Saturn) and 12th (Uranus), in trine to each other, where I'm Saturn (last aspect with the Moon) and he's Uranus (planet approaching the Moon next).
Is Uranus still doomy in 12th? What can be read out of that position?
It looked like a "no" answer, but I'm not sure what to make out of that Uranus in 12th, help me please!

I have opinions... but ****.