A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

Oh, well, these are 3 simultaneous phases of the Earth's, meaning the "World's" Ages. The vast power and scope of the Age-effect on our psyches is too complex and multidimensional to be described by a single point, or even a single line, Age-indicator.

david starling said:

The line of intersection of Earth's orbital and equatorial planes is the original method, made famous by Karl Jung, pointing out the Ages in the equal-Sign, sidereal zodiac. And you're right, it is an Earth-Sun relationship, just as the Ecliptic is both the Earth's orbital plane projected out into space, and the Sun's path as it transits the zodiac.
So is the Line of Apsides and Earth's Point of Perihelion, an Earth-Sun relationship, which I'm using to point out the Ages in the tropical zodiac.
What I don't understand is why, as a tropicalist, you're so intent on using the constellations for the Ages. You've already explained them as being named seasonally, for a tropical calendar over 4000 years ago.
The true cause of the Ages isn't the constellations, it's Earth's "wobble" as it rotates. The Moon is also involved, in that regard.

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Kiril stoychev said:

I'm not a tropicalist, I'm an astrologer.

The science of astrology studies light in its various manifestations

(especially Sunlight).

BUT, in this sense, the light coming from the stars is also important.
The point of view in astrology is geocentric, I would even say anthropocentric.

Therefore, it is important what the person sees.
And today, if one observes the eastern horizon, on the day of the spring equinox,
the stars of the constellation Aquarius will rise.

This will be the case for about 2000 years.

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i.e

2019 AD - Today, if we go out one hour before sunrise
on the day of the spring equinox
we shall view the stars of the constellation Aquarius
rising above the horizon.
We are already in the Age of Aquarius.

Kiril stoychev said:

I'm not a tropicalist, I'm an astrologer. The science of astrology studies light in its various manifestations (especially Sunlight). BUT, in this sense, the light coming from the stars is also important. The point of view in astrology is geocentric, I would even say anthropocentric.
Therefore, it is important what the person sees. And today, if one observes the eastern horizon, on the day of the spring equinox, the stars of the constellation Aquarius will rise.
This will be the case for about 2000 years.

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I agree that the light coming from the stars is more important than they have been accredited. I agree that we are already in Aquarius. From my readings of ancient scriptures, and Burgoyne and (Bachelet Norelli, although I disagree with some of her writings, her time lines are very interesting.

The Nag Hamadi's give the stars their due importance in the sky, to humankind.

Kiril stoychev said:

I'm not a tropicalist, I'm an astrologer. The science of astrology studies light in its various manifestations (especially Sunlight). BUT, in this sense, the light coming from the stars is also important. The point of view in astrology is geocentric, I would even say anthropocentric.
Therefore, it is important what the person sees. And today, if one observes the eastern horizon, on the day of the spring equinox, the stars of the constellation Aquarius will rise.
This will be the case for about 2000 years.

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So, for Ascendant, Sun, Moon, planets, Nodes, etc. you use the tropical zodiac at a specific time and place. And, tropically, the first point of Aries is timed exactly to the Vernal Equinox.
Then, for just the astrological effect of the Ages, and that alone, you switch to heliacally viewing the once-and-long-ago-tropical constellations from anywhere during an entire 24 hour period on the day of the Vernal Equinox.

If it weren't for the original method of using the line of intersection of Earth's orbital and equatorial planes in a calculated, sidereal zodiac, neither of us, along with everyone else, would have known about an Aquarian Age to begin with.

We just took a different approach: I looked for a way to determine the Ages in a tropical Chart, in a manner commensurate with the way they're determined sidereally; whereas, you decided to simply abandon the calculated Charts altogether, regarding the astrological influence of the Ages.

All right, I agree to disagree on the basis of method; but, at least we agree on an Aquarian Age as important to life on the planet, and its major influence on future developments.

Just what those developments will be, is another source of controversy. You seem to be connecting it to war and technology (and please correct me if this isn't the case). I connect it to freeing our minds, and enabling us to fully comprehend the nature of the light from the stars, in terms of its affect on our psyches. The term "Ascension", in its esoteric sense, comes to mind.

I connect the Aquarius age with gender equality, technology development, independence wars.



I also associate this age with floods.
(in ancient Sumer, when Aquarius was heliacally rising during the year, river floods occurred). That is why the sign has this name.

Kiril stoychev said:

I connect the Aquarius age with gender equality, technology development, independence wars.



I also associate this age with floods.
(in ancient Sumer, when Aquarius was heliacally rising during the year, river floods occurred). That is why the sign has this name.

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Yes, heavy rains, with the image of an overflowing basin. It's also connected to the Aquariid meteor showers that appear along the radiant line of the constellation.

Here's the BIG question: What do you see as the Age-sign ruler for Aquarius? I'm going with Uranian rulership, not Saturnian.

With the Aquarian age, are you are seeing floods as the main detriment?

I do not. It's symbol is Man. I think Man will be the main detriment. Aquarius is an air sign. Man would seem determined to pollute the air. Man has caged the water. I see the water pouring forth, as the water breaking free from the commodity control that has warehoused and metered water, and is charging large dollars for clean, usable water.

Floods will happen, as will Fire and Earthquakes, but I do not see them as the catalyst. Man is the catalyst in the Age of Aquarius.

My 1.5 cents.

Opal said:

With the Aquarian age, are you are seeing floods as the main detriment?

I do not. It's symbol is Man. I think Man will be the main detriment. Aquarius is an air sign. Man would seem determined to pollute the air. Man has caged the water. I see the water pouring forth, as the water breaking free from the commodity control that has warehoused and metered water, and is charging large dollars for clean, usable water.

Floods will happen, as will Fire and Earthquakes, but I do not see them as the catalyst. Man is the catalyst in the Age of Aquarius.

My 1.5 cents.

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So, Fish were the catalyst for the sidereal Age of Pisces?

david starling said:

So, Fish were the catalyst for the sidereal Age of Pisces?

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Pisces is not one of the Cruxes of Destruction. The Four Horsemen are. The Ages of Aquarius, Taurus, Leo and Scorpio.

The fisher of Men.

PART 6

Given that I believe there are two types of astrological Ages happening simultaneously, tropical and sidereal; and four, if we include constellational and Galactic Center Ages, I need to specify which type of Age is meant.

I attribute everything I've heard so far about the beginning of the Age of sidereal Aquarius, to the culmination of the Age of tropical Capricorn, ruled by Saturn; but, with an ever-increasing blend of Capricornian and Aquarian Sign-qualities as the ending era of the Age of tropical Capricorn transitions into the beginning of the tropical Age of Aquarius, which means a changeover from Saturnian to Uranian rulership.

Capricorn is Cardinal (clever, innovative and inventive), Earth (materialistic, and very concerned with money and time), and ruled by Saturn (limited and restricted). This explains the Industrial Revolution, the Capitalistic system, the recourse to violence and warfare to resolve disputes, the newer technologies, and our inability to solve the problems caused by industry and technology.

Opal said:

Pisces is not one of the Cruxes of Destruction. The Four Horsemen are. The Ages of Aquarius, Taurus, Leo and Scorpio.

The fisher of Men.

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Neptune holds the fisherman's trident of authority for the sidereal Age of Pisces. Jesus wasn't one of the fish. He controlled the sea. He didn't swim in it. The Rulers are the influencers, not the Signs.

To create a new and better world, the old paradigms have to be done away with. That's what the Destruction regarding the Aquarian Age is about, not the physical world.

david starling said:

Given that I believe there are two types of astrological Ages happening simultaneously, tropical and sidereal; and four, if we include constellational and Galactic Center Ages, I need to specify which type of Age is meant.

I attribute everything I've heard so far about the beginning of the Age of sidereal Aquarius, to the culmination of the Age of tropical Capricorn, ruled by Saturn; but, with an ever-increasing blend of Capricornian and Aquarian Sign-qualities as the ending era of the Age of tropical Capricorn transitions into the beginning of the tropical Age of Aquarius, which means a changeover from Saturnian to Uranian rulership.

Capricorn is Cardinal (clever, innovative and inventive), Earth (materialistic, and very concerned with money and time), and ruled by Saturn (limited and restricted). This explains the Industrial Revolution, the Capitalistic system, the recourse to violence and warfare to resolve disputes, the newer technologies, and our inability to solve the problems caused by industry and technology.

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I do not know if the Tropical Ages will be proven to be as the Sidereal ages, I haven’t studied them anywhere excepting this thread, therefore I cannot answer to it, as to whether it qualities will prove the same as the Sidereal Ages.

I am sorry David, I do not see that Capricorn’s age is responsible for the Industrial Revolution. For me, it is Aquarius. Fulfilling the prophecy of The Four Horsemen. Inventions of the Industrial Revolution are making man ill, electricity and leukaemia, allergens to everything.

Capricorn are rebuilders. They are industrious, and cardinal but they are not of the destroyers.

david starling said:

Neptune holds the fisherman's trident of authority for the sidereal Age of Pisces. Jesus wasn't one of the fish. He controlled the sea. He didn't swim in it. The Rulers are the influencers, not the Signs.

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Jesus was called the fisher of men. He was not a fish. He did walk on water though.

Opal said:

I do not know if the Tropical Ages will be proven to be as the Sidereal ages, I haven’t studied them anywhere excepting this thread, therefore I cannot answer to it, as to whether it qualities will prove the same as the Sidereal Ages.

I am sorry David, I do not see that Capricorn’s age is responsible for the Industrial Revolution. For me, it is Aquarius. Fulfilling the prophecy of The Four Horsemen. Inventions of the Industrial Revolution are making man ill, electricity and leukaemia, allergens to everything.

Capricorn are rebuilders. They are industrious, and cardinal but they are not of the destroyers.

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Saturn is the destroyer, and the ruler of Capricorn. Capricorn does its best, but can't rebel against its own rulership. Everything Capricorn builds, Saturn destroys.

The Industrial Revolution was purely materialistic, and all about time and money. Entirely Capricornian, neither Piscean nor Aquarian.

Opal, you're not giving Capricorn enough credit for the amazing materialistic creativity of the tropical Age now nearing its end. And, you're not taking into account the final results of an Age-sign ruled by the "Greater Malefic", identified as the Devourer, the Grim Reaper, Father Time, and with the Christian version, Satan the Adversary.
It's materialistic achievements and constant, purposeful warfare are nothing like a Piscean Age, ruled by Neptune.

World Wars I & II weren't wars of liberation. They were Saturn-driven disputes over which military industrial complex would rule the world.

Ignoring the tropical Ages won't make them go away. Just as not believing in astrology won't free one from one's Natal-chart, or the transits that impact it.

PART 7

Here's a symbolic example of how the tropical Ages work together, and the delay in the effects of the sidereal due to its Retrograde-motion through the zodiac, which makes it more indrawn and contemplative--the Exodus. Tropically, it happens right away, since the Fire-sign Age of tropical Sagittarius begins around 1350 B.C.E., the actual time period of the Exodus. The Exodus itself is about leaving ancient Egypt, the most representative culture of the tropical Age of Scorpio, including the god Osirus, now known as Pluto. So, the Exodus is symbolic of the ending of the tropical Water-sign Age ruled by Pluto, into the beginning of the tropical, Fire-sign Age of Sagittarius, ruled by Jupiter all the way through the Roman Empire, at its ending. The symbolism is the crossing of the Red Sea, a body of water, into the hot, dry desert. The Egyptian army couldn't follow, because it was a creation of the Water-sign Age.

Now let's look at the sidereal Age of Taurus, which ends several centuries before the Exodus is believed to have occurred somewhere between about 1500 to 1250 B.C.E. In fact, with a sidereal Age of Aquarius beginning around 1900 A.D., for example, a 2150 year span goes back to an Age of Pisces beginning around 250 B.C.E., and then back to 2400 B.C.E. for the end of the sidereal Age of Taurus and the beginning of the Age of sidereal Aries. That's 900 years before even the earliest date for the Exodus, moving it into the middle area of the Age of Aries. But, the symbolism fits sidereal Taurus to Aries regarding the Golden Calf event, changing from the Age of the Bull into the Age of the Ram.

The Industrial Revolution occurred during the culminating phase of the tropical, Cardinal-sign Age of Capricorn, and led into more and more sophisticated technology as the Age nears its ending. This delay is typical of the Cardinal, innovative tropical Ages. The Age of tropical Libra, ruled by Venus as Inanna, Queen of the Heavens, was culminating at the time city-state civllization began developing in the Tigris-Euphrates valley region, including written language, around 3500 B.C.E., and was fully developed at the end of the Age, around 3100 B.C.E. Cardinal-sign, tropical Ages have to overcome the strong traditional resistance of the previous seasonal quadrant, which holds back the innovations most representative of the Age-sign and its rulership.
Siderally, this same, new, city-state culture occurred in the middle area of the Age of sidereal Taurus, not right away.

So, there's no pattern or reason for the sidereal Age of Aquarius to show developments early on, but, the tropical, Fixed-sign Ages do have a reason: The previous seasonal quadrant's traditional resistance to new developments is extremely weak by the end of the preceding Cardinal-sign Age. And, the intensity of a Fixed-sign, tropical Age, adds to the immediacy. This is why the First Dynasty of the tropical, Fixed-sign Age of Scorpio, under Osirus/Pluto, with Ancient Egypt as the most representative culture of the Age, arose right after the Age's beginning, c. 3100 B.C.E.

This also means a quick start to the most representative developments for the tropical Aquarian Age and its Uranian rulership, which will get fully under way by about 2150. But, today's technology and the problems it's causing are occurring BEFORE the tropical Aquarian Age EVEN BEGINS, and the Industrial Revolution was even farther back.*

Bottom line: Don't blame either of these Aquarian Ages for today's problems. Tropical Capricorn's Age IS the goat, but the real blame goes to its Saturnian rulership, and those who are unable to retain their sense of humanity and decency due to its effect on their Natal-charts.

*PART 8 explains that some Aquarian Age characteristics are already in effect, and have been slowly increasing in effect since around 1750. The rise of humanitarian values is the result. Not surprising, since Aquarius is known as the "most Human" of all the Signs.