what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

Gemini888

Well-known member
Define low intelligence.


Forgive me if I sound offended, but as someone who has had to live with the "low intelligence" label for years, there is no such thing as stupidity, only different kind of intelligence. That said, I seem to notice that the people who are labeled "low intelligence" take more time to think, which isn't always a bad thing. Thinking slowly means more refined thought.


I can think of a couple of placements for that:



  • Mercury retrograde
  • Mercury square Saturn
  • Mercury in signs like Taurus or Capricorn
  • Mercury forming an aspect to Neptune (causing seemingly spacy thought. In my case Neptune quintile Mercury)
I have my chart here for reference.
 

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love-thinking

Well-known member
Define low intelligence.


Forgive me if I sound offended, but as someone who has had to live with the "low intelligence" label for years, there is no such thing as stupidity, only different kind of intelligence. That said, I seem to notice that the people who are labeled "low intelligence" take more time to think, which isn't always a bad thing. Thinking slowly means more refined thought.


I can think of a couple of placements for that:



  • Mercury retrograde
  • Mercury square Saturn
  • Mercury in signs like Taurus or Capricorn
  • Mercury forming an aspect to Neptune (causing seemingly spacy thought. In my case Neptune quintile Mercury)
I have my chart here for reference.

Your mercury is in gemini? I'm talking about lower iq. Which in my humble opinion and knowledge is being able to reason properly, think abstractly, connect the dots, and a decent memory.

Quintiles don't count. You're not dumb. Neptune can create spaciness but can also cause someone to think abstractly. But Yes I do think it might create a little slowness.
 

waybread

Well-known member
It's really complicated. A birth chart merely shows a potential at birth. Many factors influence where a child gets a chance to develop intellectual capabilities. You might see an intelligent-looking natal chart, only to learn that the person got a head-injury as a young person, that seriously affects his ability to think clearly.

What is behind your question?

[Gemini888, I have Mercury retrograde. I disagree.]
 

katydid

Well-known member
Define low intelligence.


Forgive me if I sound offended, but as someone who has had to live with the "low intelligence" label for years, there is no such thing as stupidity, only different kind of intelligence. That said, I seem to notice that the people who are labeled "low intelligence" take more time to think, which isn't always a bad thing. Thinking slowly means more refined thought.


I can think of a couple of placements for that:



  • Mercury retrograde
  • Mercury square Saturn
  • Mercury in signs like Taurus or Capricorn
  • Mercury forming an aspect to Neptune (causing seemingly spacy thought. In my case Neptune quintile Mercury)
I have my chart here for reference.

I am not sure that I agree with the placements you have used as examples above.

In my experience,Mercury retro does not usually signify low intelligence.
I think it often indicates someone who thinks in a different way than the 'norm' and may look at things very deeply.

My husband has Merc Retro in Aries in the 12th. He is an award winning writer and travels around the world speaking and teaching about writing and literature and film and TV.

Prince had Merc retro. He had a very high IQ. Same with Buckminster Fuller, the famous inventor, who created the geodesic dome.

Mercury in Taurus:

As a mom, I have to stand up for my 2 kids, both with Merc in Taurus. Neither have low intelligence. They were both in the gifted program in school.

My son reads one or two novels a week and has for many years. My daughter is a writer like her father and has been very successful.

So I disagree that Mercury in Taurus signifies a low IQ. It can signify someone who processes data slower than the average bear. But if someone is an Aries or Gemini with their Merc in Taurus, they are not going to be slow witted, necessarily.

Mercury in Taurus can be stubborn and resistant to change, but not necessarily dumb.

Mercury in Taurus natives: Emma Watson, Sigmund freud, George Clooney, Bono, Gigi Hadid

Mercury square Saturn:

Some very intelligent natives have Merc/Saturn squares. Saturn can hone ones perceptions and thoughts and stir ambition and accomplishments.

Hilary Clinton----Salvador Dali---Sir Isaac Newton---Woody Allen---Johnny Depp---Maya Angelou---Warren Buffett....

These^^^ are not stupid, low IQ people...:cool:
 
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Gemini888

Well-known member
I am not sure that I agree with the placements you have used as examples above.

In my experience,Mercury retro does not usually signify low intelligence.
I think it often indicates someone who thinks in a different way than the 'norm' and may look at things very deeply.

My husband has Merc Retro in Aries in the 12th. He is an award winning writer and travels around the world speaking and teaching about writing and literature and film and TV.

Prince had Merc retro. He had a very high IQ. Same with Buckminster Fuller, the famous inventor, who created the geodesic dome.

Mercury in Taurus:

As a mom, I have to stand up for my 2 kids, both with Merc in Taurus. Neither have low intelligence. They were both in the gifted program in school.

My son reads one or two novels a week and has for many years. My daughter is a writer like her father and has been very successful.

So I disagree that Mercury in Taurus signifies a low IQ. It can signify someone who processes data slower than the average bear. But if someone is an Aries or Gemini with their Merc in Taurus, they are not going to be slow witted, necessarily.

Mercury in Taurus can be stubborn and resistant to change, but not necessarily dumb.

Mercury in Taurus natives: Emma Watson, Sigmund freud, George Clooney, Bono, Gigi Hadid

Mercury square Saturn:

Some very intelligent natives have Merc/Saturn squares. Saturn can hone ones perceptions and thoughts and stir ambition and accomplishments.

Hilary Clinton----Salvador Dali---Sir Isaac Newton---Woody Allen---Johnny Depp---Maya Angelou---Warren Buffett....

These^^^ are not stupid, low IQ people...:cool:

Looks like you failed to understand my point. My point is that the people with those placements think differently, so as a result being LABELED "low intelligence" by the masses. And I can attest to that, having Mercury retrograde in 2H square Saturn and being called stupid.

I'm in NO way saying that those placements make people stupid.
 

katydid

Well-known member
Looks like you failed to understand my point. My point is that the people with those placements think differently, so as a result being LABELED "low intelligence" by the masses. And I can attest to that, having Mercury retrograde in 2H square Saturn and being called stupid.

I'm in NO way saying that those placements make people stupid.

Sorry. I did miss your point.:sideways:
I skimmed the first paragraph too fast and skipped to the numbered parts below. :happy:

Must be my Mercury opposed Jupiter, exact. :innocent:
 

Gemini888

Well-known member
Sorry. I did miss your point.:sideways:
I skimmed the first paragraph too fast and skipped to the numbered parts below. :happy:

Must be my Mercury opposed Jupiter, exact. :innocent:
In my chart you can see I have Mercury/Jupiter opposition too. And I jump the gun sometimes :biggrin:
 

UnluckyGirl

Well-known member
What's an indicator of low intelligence in a birth chart?

Mercury in Aries/Pisces/Leo
Mercury in hard aspect to Neptune

Mercury-Saturn can make someone really slow but not having low intelligence per se.
The native can literally speak slowly for example.

I have a difficult time deciding about Mercury in Sag because I've seen both intelligent and the complete opposite of intelligent people with it. The intelligent ones had lots of other aspects to their Mercury while the not intelligent ones had their Mercury almost unaspected or just a few sextiles and stuff like that. (I'm talking about Sag Mercury).
I have 2 cousins with Sag Mercury and all people comment on how low intelligent they are. I mean it's very obvious.
However with my cousin it's beyond creepy.
It's like she has an empty head which is filled and replaus whatever she listens and sees from others. I find this the most creepy thing and it's also very common with Neptunian Mercuries. It comes to a point that they would drive me crazy because they forget and get confused about whatever they've said in the past.. I've come to a piint that I would record them in order to prove it to them and to save my sanity. They don't have the slightest idea but their environment seems to realise it.

With my cousin though I don't see her having friends. No one wants her and everyone calls her stupid. It makes me sad and I've been talking to her for years but honestly I knew it was completely pointless since the beginning because she's actually a repeater. I don't know how to explain it otherwise, but it's like her brain doesn't work in a sense.
Also she lies a lot for no reason. The lies she tells are lies that wouldn't do her any favor. It's very weird actually.

Her parents and her brother are normal people on the most than average intelligence side.
 

love-thinking

Well-known member
Mercury in Aries/Pisces/Leo
Mercury in hard aspect to Neptune

Mercury-Saturn can make someone really slow but not having low intelligence per se.
The native can literally speak slowly for example.

I have a difficult time deciding about Mercury in Sag because I've seen both intelligent and the complete opposite of intelligent people with it. The intelligent ones had lots of other aspects to their Mercury while the not intelligent ones had their Mercury almost unaspected or just a few sextiles and stuff like that. (I'm talking about Sag Mercury).
I have 2 cousins with Sag Mercury and all people comment on how low intelligent they are. I mean it's very obvious.
However with my cousin it's beyond creepy.
It's like she has an empty head which is filled and replaus whatever she listens and sees from others. I find this the most creepy thing and it's also very common with Neptunian Mercuries. It comes to a point that they would drive me crazy because they forget and get confused about whatever they've said in the past.. I've come to a piint that I would record them in order to prove it to them and to save my sanity. They don't have the slightest idea but their environment seems to realise it.

With my cousin though I don't see her having friends. No one wants her and everyone calls her stupid. It makes me sad and I've been talking to her for years but honestly I knew it was completely pointless since the beginning because she's actually a repeater. I don't know how to explain it otherwise, but it's like her brain doesn't work in a sense.
Also she lies a lot for no reason. The lies she tells are lies that wouldn't do her any favor. It's very weird actually.

Her parents and her brother are normal people on the most than average intelligence side.

Does she have high functioning autism or ADD?

Mercury really does get a bad rep. But some people may have anxiety disorders and other mental health issues and excel at other stages or domains in life.

It breaks my heart really. I kind of regret starting this thread.
 

UnluckyGirl

Well-known member
Does she have high functioning autism or ADD?

Mercury really does get a bad rep. But some people may have anxiety disorders and other mental health issues and excel at other stages or domains in life.

It breaks my heart really. I kind of regret starting this thread.

Even if you didn't start the thread nothing would change practically.
I find this things informative
Andsince that is reality I would like to see each ones observations.

Not only she doesn't have any problem
but she's lucky enough to have been raised in a very good environment (both emotionally and financially).
She talks non stop and it's like she doesm't know what she says, she just tlks for the sake of talking.
I think that I found the right way to describe it.
Have you ever learnt a lesson without actually giving it a thought, you just memorised it in order to get a good grade next day without really understand it.
It's like she's been in that kind of mode non stop in her real life. She doesn't really understands meaning, she just repeats. It feels to me like her brain doesn't actually process things if that makes sense. But to be honest it seems like she's too lazy to do that, she's too superficial generally.
I can't blame others for not standing her. I have difficulty myself.
But I think it's her fault actually. She may not naturally process things but she can try a bit harder since it's needed to.
It's like a poor person who desperately want money and he is offered a few decent jobs but he doesn't want to work.
She has what you would call a perfect life otherwise honestly, I've tried to help her for years and teach her how to go deeper but it's like she agrees but her mind isn't there.

The other cousin has some kind of problem but he is actually smart. His speech though is seriously slowed down. (Sag Mercury square Saturn) Also he is HILARIOUS his humor is so good that I cry because of too much laughter.
My best friend had also great sense of humor and he was very smart Sag Mercury too without any problem actually. If I remmber correctly his Jupiter was aspecting his Mercury so it may play a positive role.
 

Gemini888

Well-known member
That girl reminds me of a friend I have. Extremely forgetful. Unless it's of utmost importance, nothing ever stays in her brain for more than a day. She can't comprehend abstract concept either, and she is sometimes too casual over serious things. It's like she can only scrap the surface of everything and then move on. She also has a perfect family. Supposedly, she has Mercury in Cancer in 9H.



But why do I keep her as a friend?


Because she has tons of other redeeming quality. If you avoid discussing work with her, she's a great asset at parties. She can keep the gathering entertaining with her random humor. She also knows a lot of games to suggest everyone to play together. And she has a knack of connecting to other fun-loving people. Through her I get to know some great people who turn out to not only be good at partying but also great for other serious things.


If you look for the positive in people and know how to bring out the positive, chances are they aren't as bad as you think.
 

UnluckyGirl

Well-known member
Gemini888
I honestly can't find anything positive about my cousin and I'm not the only one. I know her well since she was born. You have no idea how hard I've tried over the years with her. I tried to find something good too so that she could develop that more or somehow use it to her advantage (mentally). Anyway, it's pointless.
Her chart is full of Libra btw except of her mecury..
Others often use her for her money unfortunately.
I've read that Mercury in Cancer along with Mercury in Aqua are two of the best Mercury signs after Virgo and Gemini. I mean Mercury in Aqua it's kind of obvious but I was surprised for Mercury in V
Cancer.
However you say that her Mercury us in 9th H of Sag.
 

Witchyone

Well-known member
I really don't think intelligence can be seen in a chart. Perhaps the types of potential intelligence a person might have can be.

I say this because I too have Mercury conjunct Saturn, but I had the opposite experience. I was in all the gifted classes and scored high on tests. I had straight As and participated in quick recall and problem-solving competitions, and other nerdy endeavors. It was assumed I'd grow up and do something really amazing and genius.

Oops.
 

Witchyone

Well-known member
Any superior intelligence related to Uranus imo. Especially, highly tight conjunction with lightbringer for diurnal nativities aka the Sun. :biggrin:
Opposite and square to Uranus is the trouble.

Well, okay. I do have sun trine Uranus...not that tight, though. A 4 or 5 degree orb if I recall.

But the oops was because I haven't done anything particularly amazing or genius.
 

Witchyone

Well-known member
Pluto and Uranus sitting together in your chart. Uranus naturally didn't like Pluto. :whistling:

Hmm? I have sun trine Uranus. I looked, and it's actually 3 degree orb. Pluto and Uranus are in the same sign, but not very close together. Have you been digging up my chart and looking at it?

Hhmm... Pluto's light reflections should be bother Uranus a lot. :devil:

Oh, I get it. This is just some Pluto shade. Sneaky. :bandit:
 

BlackLioness87

Well-known member
It's really complicated. A birth chart merely shows a potential at birth. Many factors influence where a child gets a chance to develop intellectual capabilities. You might see an intelligent-looking natal chart, only to learn that the person got a head-injury as a young person, that seriously affects his ability to think clearly.

What is behind your question?

[Gemini888, I have Mercury retrograde. I disagree.]

I agree with waybread. Many low-iq people have "normal" charts, but they went through some disgraceful events like an accident or disease that makes them lose a lot of their neurons so their mental capabilities are diminished. Traumatic birth or oxygen deprivation also lead to this.

It also seems that people who go through very stressful and traumatic situations in their early years, and those who didn't have enough iron in their diets when growing up have more chances of having a low IQ.
 
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Domna

Well-known member
Imo the natal shart says more about how we think than about actual intelligence level. The charts shows our predispositions as far as thought processes go... if we are analytical or intuitive thinkers; quick witted or slower, more deliberate; inventive or traditional; linguistic, logical, spatial... The rest, our actual level of intelligence / IQ or whatever... depends on how we work with what we've got. Some people will be more versatile, some will show a major predisposition for one specific type of intelligence... Some people have easy aspects between planets that help them utilize them without struggle, other people will have more to overcome. But I do believe that everyone has the potential to excel in at least some intellectual area.

- Uranus/Aquarius might be the classical high IQ, analytical, inventive type intelligence.
- Mercury/Gemini/3rd: liguistic, interpersonal, quick wit, curiosity.
- Mars/Aries: kinestetic, driven.
- Virgo: logical, spatial, detail-oriented.
- Moon/Cancer: interpersonal, intuitive.
- Neptune/Pisces/12th: intuitive, musical, artistic, imaginative.
...and so on, just some speculation.

My own intelligence is linguistic, interpersonal and intuitive, with a bit of well-organized Virgo thrown in. I have Mercury in Cancer in the 9th, tightly conjunct Mars and Midheaven, opposite Neptune in the 3rd. Gemini Sun in the 9th, square to Virgo Moon in the 12th. Uranus in Sagittarius 3rd, fairly isolated. Despite some harsh aspects and inopportune placements I've always been considered intellectually gifted... I think my multitude of Mercury/Gemini/3rd house energy makes me innately curious about everything (add in a strong Pluto, trine to Mercury, and you'll get obsessive curiosity). An innate curiosity is probably a great advantage when it comes to intellectual development.
 
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