How is natal energies binded with us physically?

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YonyGursho

Well-known member
Through what physical instrument or instruments are we binded to our natal energies? There has to be some physical thing which is what binds our selves to planetary energies right?

If not, perhaps its just magic doing it?
 
ardentika

ardentika

Well-known member
YonyGursho said:
Through what physical instrument or instruments are we binded to our natal energies? There has to be some physical thing which is what binds our selves to planetary energies right?

If not, perhaps its just magic doing it?
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Well your whole body is your chart plus it is magic lol. If you are asking why astrology works then I think no one can answer that for you. You will need to find an answer that resonates best with you because no one really knows. Everyone has just theories .
 
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greybeard

Well-known member
The proof, unscientific though it may be, lies in the demonstrable fact that people develop and live out their lives in accord with their horoscopes.

Thoreau said that circumstantial evidence is often the most convincing kind, as when you find a trout in the milk.

You see, back in the 1840s, when Thoreau lived and wrote, you didn't run to the corner store and buy a gallon of pasteurized, homogenized, vitamin-D fortified milk. No.

You went to a man who had some milk cows. Now some unscrupulous dairymen, in order to increase their profits, would water down the milk. So...if you found a trout, or a minnow, in the milk....circumstantial evidence.

There are no physical agents "binding our natal energies". It's all done by smoke and mirrors. What if...I'm just asking...what if there were actually non-physical agencies in the universe?

Take an Idea. Non-physical. But precedes and generates all things.

This discussion seems to me as somewhat like arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
 
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petosiris

Banned
Correct me if im wrong, but you're claim is that heat and moisture or the lack of those are the physical things which connect our physical bodies to natal energies?

If so, what proof do you have?
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Sun heats and dries. Leo heats and dries. Leo has nature of Sun. Midheaven heats and dries. Sun in Leo at the Midheaven really heats and dries. Sun in conjunction with morning rising planets increases their heat and moisture. Such conceptions and nativities with this configuration are found to be eminent and dignified because heat causes activity, and moisture causes fertility.

Sun because it lacks moisture and is fiery, is masculine. This fact can be used in variety of ways, for judging the gender of the individual, for judging fathers (especially by day) and the topic of marriage in the charts of women. The Sun can also indicate travel because it is always moving. The Sun sometimes takes control of the length of life of the individual. Etc.

To clarify, the planets at the nativity can't be the causal factor for most events, except the birth itself. It is only related because birth occurs when a similar configuration to that of the conception is predominating the environment. The general temperament of body and soul is more or less predetermined at the moment of conception. This temperament then interacts with the environment, which is often also predominated by heavenly cycles.
 
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petosiris

Banned
Correct me if im wrong, but you're claim is that heat and moisture or the lack of those are the physical things which connect our physical bodies to natal energies?

If so, what proof do you have?
Click to expand...

The better question is whether it is possible that these things are not related. For example the natures of the planets and the houses and the exaltations of the zodiac were investigated by the ancients solely on these physical principles - see 1.4-1.7 and 1.17-1.19 http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Ptolemy/Tetrabiblos/home.html

Of course their theory might be incorrect. But it would be extraordinary, if their methodology and astrology is correct empirically, while the complexity of their theories behind it being utter nonsense.
 
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YonyGursho

Well-known member
greybeard said:
The proof, unscientific though it may be, lies in the demonstrable fact that people develop and live out their lives in accord with their horoscopes.

Thoreau said that circumstantial evidence is often the most convincing kind, as when you find a trout in the milk.

You see, back in the 1840s, when Thoreau lived and wrote, you didn't run to the corner store and buy a gallon of pasteurized, homogenized, vitamin-D fortified milk. No.

You went to a man who had some milk cows. Now some unscrupulous dairymen, in order to increase their profits, would water down the milk. So...if you found a trout, or a minnow, in the milk....circumstantial evidence.

There are no physical agents "binding our natal energies". It's all done by smoke and mirrors. What if...I'm just asking...what if there were actually non-physical agencies in the universe?

Take an Idea. Non-physical. But precedes and generates all things.

This discussion seems to me as somewhat like arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
Click to expand...

It very well could be through non physical agencies or a single non physical agency. I guess we will never know.
 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
YonyGursho said:
What part of it is confusing to you?
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I'm asking for more clarity. What exactly do you mean? How or why astrology "works"?????

If so, nobody knows. There are different theories out there. Some we can ignore completely. Astrology includes horary astrology, which goes by the horoscope drawn up for the moment in time, not a nativity. There's nothing physical for planets to act upon. Some astrologers think it's a system of divination.

To me, astrology works in the mind of the astrologer reading a horoscope. A horoscope is a graphic language, similar to a map, with no necessary relationship to linear space or time.
 
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YonyGursho

Well-known member
waybread said:
I'm asking for more clarity. What exactly do you mean? How or why astrology "works"?????

If so, nobody knows. There are different theories out there. Some we can ignore completely. Astrology includes horary astrology, which goes by the horoscope drawn up for the moment in time, not a nativity. There's nothing physical for planets to act upon. Some astrologers think it's a system of divination.

To me, astrology works in the mind of the astrologer reading a horoscope. A horoscope is a graphic language, similar to a map, with no necessary relationship to linear space or time.
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My question is why our human bodies are controlled by energies of the planet/asteroids? What is it that physically connects the human body to them so as to create our entire beings?

I dont think there is anything physical that does it, it's more likely just God willing the heavenly bodies to hold the energies that all work together to create what we know as reality.
 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
Yony, I don't take a strongly deterministic view of astrology, because even with "orthodox" traditional readings, each planet, sign, and house has multiple interpretations that are consistent with the core meanings.

Then astrologers are often flat-out mistaken in their analyses. Astrology is not an exact science.

Much of the history of western astrology is tied up with the Christian, Jewish, and Muslim beliefs of the best known astrologers of the Middle Ages, Renaissance, and modern period. These religions all stress "free will," or what I would call moral choice.

We're not just pre-programmed robots, playing out a script.

Then neuroscience is yielding all kinds of information on human behaviour.

Ancient astrology was much more deterministic. The ancient Greeks believed human lives were determined by 3 fates. The fatalistic Stoic philosophy was adopted by astrologers who saw in the heavens the mechanism by which one's fate was determined.

The famous ancient astrologer Ptolemy, as a confirmed fatalist, nevertheless believed that the horoscope permitted some wiggle room. He noted that nobody would go to a doctor for a cure if the course of an illness were strictly inevitable.

Fatalism and determinism are not essential to the practice of astrology today.

You've probably come across the statement, "The stars impel, but they do not compel."

You might be interested in the view that astrology is a form of divination.
 
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ardentika

ardentika

Well-known member
YonyGursho said:
My question is why our human bodies are controlled by energies of the planet/asteroids? What is it that physically connects the human body to them so as to create our entire beings?

I dont think there is anything physical that does it, it's more likely just God willing the heavenly bodies to hold the energies that all work together to create what we know as reality.
Click to expand...

Uhm... Your psyche? 😃 Your brain controls your body and your consciousness controls your brain. You breathe subconsciously. When you walk you don't really do it consciously. Things are conscious as long as we learn them. Then they get memorized and stored in the subconscious mind and then they become automatic. Just like unhealthy patterns can be automatic.


Your chart shows very much your subconscious patterns or conscious ones and the potential. Every planet represents an aspect of being a human. You go from 1st house to the self to the 12th of the unconscious and everything else. So all planets you have are a mere mixture of your parents and what you were taught as a kid. They show how are you most likely to behave if you spend the majority of your life in an automatic mode.

However every planet has many levels of manifestation . The good and the bad. Let's say you have self destructive patterns without realizing, however you do see the results in your life, your chart can help you locate that and remove that obstacle. That itself takes conscious work until you learn it so well that it becomes unconscious again.

God is you. God created man to look like him, right.

So nothing binds you to the planets . Planets are a mere mirror to your inner world, realized or not.

Carl Jung said that the material world exists only because the psyche observes it.
 
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YonyGursho

Well-known member
ardentika said:
Uhm... Your psyche? 😃 Your brain controls your body and your consciousness controls your brain. You breathe subconsciously. When you walk you don't really do it consciously. Things are conscious as long as we learn them. Then they get memorized and stored in the subconscious mind and then they become automatic. Just like unhealthy patterns can be automatic.


Your chart shows very much your subconscious patterns or conscious ones and the potential. Every planet represents an aspect of being a human. You go from 1st house to the self to the 12th of the unconscious and everything else. So all planets you have are a mere mixture of your parents and what you were taught as a kid. They show how are you most likely to behave if you spend the majority of your life in an automatic mode.

However every planet has many levels of manifestation . The good and the bad. Let's say you have self destructive patterns without realizing, however you do see the results in your life, your chart can help you locate that and remove that obstacle. That itself takes conscious work until you learn it so well that it becomes unconscious again.

God is you. God created man to look like him, right.

So nothing binds you to the planets . Planets are a mere mirror to your inner world, realized or not.

Carl Jung said that the material world exists only because the psyche observes it.
Click to expand...

So you're saying that nothing physical is attached to our physical bodies that links our natal energies to our physical bodies?

If so, then surely it must be God's will that when you are born at a the specific time, your human body is linked with the planetary configurations that you were born under. But this linking doesnt require any physical tool, its just God willing it to be so and it happens.
 
ardentika

ardentika

Well-known member
YonyGursho said:
So you're saying that nothing physical is attached to our physical bodies that links our natal energies to our physical bodies?

If so, then surely it must be God's will that when you are born at a the specific time, your human body is linked with the planetary configurations that you were born under. But this linking doesnt require any physical tool, its just God willing it to be so and it happens.
Click to expand...

I don't believe in an omnipotent God being. It's just a belief . Shape your own. If that's what you believe then sure God's will.
 
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