Is it true traditional astrologers exclude modern planets?

Chrysalis said:

Yes i get your point/s but i just don't understand why such a big disagreement/divide with regards to this, its stupid.

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wilsontc said:

All,

You make good arguments.

I agree
and have created a Traditional Astrology subforum
in the "Other Astrology" forum.

This subforum is only for Traditional Astrology discussions
(e.g., it is not for comparing Traditional Astrology to Modern Astrology
Modern Astrology interpretations, etc.).
If you see something in the Traditional Astrology subforum that is NOT Traditional Astrology
please report it to the Moderator Team.

Merry Christmas!

Tim

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Chrysalis said:

I'm just assuming
there must have been a few disputes in the past
hence now different sections of the forum for traditional/modern.

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Chrysalis said:

When really they should be able to combine, they are all planets after all.

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No Modern Astrologer has so far managed to "combine" the outers with
the almost two thousand year old ESSENTIAL DIGNITIES TABLE

aquarius7000 said:

Hi,

Michael, most traditional Astrologers do not use the outer and impersonal planets, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto as far as rulership of signs goes because the outer planets do not fit in to the table of essential dignities (you can google the table).

Whilst some work completely without the outer planets, others consider only their placement in the natal chart and how they impact (by making aspects) the personal planets during their transits. For instance, I do not consider the outer planets as far as sign rulers go and also not in Horary astrology, but I do look at them in natal astrology just as explained above.

There are also, in the meanwhile, some astrologers that assign multi planets, stars, asteroids and whatnot as rulers to each sign (often without really knowing why), which is mind-boggling, at least for me.

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Chrysalis said:

They're STILL all planets though, whats the BIG issue seriously, there should be no issue with regards to the outers also.

ALL because they were not discovered till later on, they're disregarded by traditionalists.

Have you not thought that even though they weren't discovered till much later, that they were still having an impact on people regardless.

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Oddity said:

Some astrologers
who use traditional practices
use the outer planets to a limited degree.

Many of us do not.

We're still all modern astrologers, really though, we live now, not 1200 years ago or more.

We don't talk about them in this forum, because they really aren't a part of traditional astrology, and the rule to not talk about them in this part of the forum came about because a lot of people felt they had to troll us as some kind of inferior species for not using outer planets.

If you want to talk about the use of outer planets in trad astrology, you can do it in one of the general astrology forums, just not here, because it never ends well.

Cheers.

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Chrysalis said:

They're STILL all planets though, whats the BIG issue seriously, there should be no issue with regards to the outers also.

ALL because they were not discovered till later on, they're disregarded by traditionalists.

Have you not thought that even though they weren't discovered till much later, that they were still having an impact on people regardless.

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Chrysalis said:

Well its just like the black/white divide there was back in the day.

Once again they're all planets regardless of when they were discovered.

And OP im sure now you've got your answer

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NOTICE THAT
Dr BENJAMIN DYKES, respected practitioner of Traditional Astrology
and translator of multiple ancient texts
that are currently available on his website
EXCLUDES THE OUTERS FROM IMAGE POSTED ON THAT SITE
Traditional Astrology and Ancient Wisdom

Oddity said:

The outer planets don't cast light, they aren't visible to the naked eye. That makes them not wandering stars, not planets, so they aren't used.

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Oddity said:

I thought Minderwiz would've explained some of this to you, but I guess not.

Foundational statement of western astrology: And God said, Let there be light.

We all know where light comes from, right? The stars.

In traditional astrology, planets are known as wandering stars, as opposed to the fixed stars.

Stars that are used in astrology cast light, they're the ones visible to the naked eye.

The outer planets don't cast light, they aren't visible to the naked eye. That makes them not wandering stars, not planets, so they aren't used. Neither are dull fixed stars, if you're curious. They aren't visible enough to have an astrological effect.

You're free to use anything you like in your astrology. We just don't deal with outers, asteroids, etc. in this part of the forum.

Understand now?

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Michael said:

From Wikipedia:

"Like the classical planets, Uranus is visible to the naked eye, but it was never recognised as a planet by ancient observers because of its dimness and slow orbit.[18] Sir William Herschel announced its discovery on 13 March 1781, expanding the known boundaries of the Solar System for the first time in history and making Uranus the first planet discovered with a telescope."

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Chrysalis said:

Ermmm whats with the "WTH"
i was only stating that
this thread seems to be so against outer planets
like as though they should NEVER be used at all.

I use both so i can skip around wherever i want thanks.

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Michael said:

Thanks Chrysalis and Tikana.
It's in the 9th house and aspecting Neptune.
It seems Bonatti considers this one of the worst debilities for the Moon. Even so, the moon is in 4th house. That should compensate a little, no?

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to which our resident horary expert tikana responded just moments ago

tikana said:

keep outers out of the equation..
no point using them they are useless

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Chrysalis said:

I don't care Jupiter what others do or don't want to look at, im with both.

I'm a libra stellium i prefer fairness.

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That's fine on a Modern astrological board
HOWEVER
Traditional astrologers are entitled to exclude the outers
without being attacked as being unfair
and this board is the tradiitonal board on which the rules are clearly stated

Chrysalis said:

I'm not even attacking, im just stating some facts that's all.

Its ok im done with this thread/subject.

I just don't know how some people can be so close minded
when we have a BIG universe out there, with many many more undiscovered planets
never mind the known of outers.

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tikana said:

keep outers out of the equation..
no point using them they are useless

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Chrysalis said:

Jupiter i already SEEN tiks post before you even replied on here...i was part of that thread too hence seeing.

I dnt care what Tikana says.

Im an individual, im not attached to Tikanas hips just because im into horary. I do like Tikana and i also value her replies, and shes also learnt me a lot since ive been joined on here, but still i have my own views too....im not no sheep.

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Chrysalis said:

Well im out of this stupid discussion as were going around in circles
just like sheep do.

I value traditionalism and also modern ....but hey thats just me.

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If you value traditional astrological techniques
such as the table of ESSENTIAL DIGNITIES
then be aware that when posting on Traditional board

the outers are excluded
for the reasons Odds explained

Oddity said:

I thought Minderwiz would've explained some of this to you, but I guess not.

Foundational statement of western astrology: And God said, Let there be light.

We all know where light comes from, right? The stars.

In traditional astrology, planets are known as wandering stars, as opposed to the fixed stars.

Stars that are used in astrology cast light, they're the ones visible to the naked eye.

The outer planets don't cast light, they aren't visible to the naked eye.
That makes them not wandering stars, not planets, so
they aren't used.

Neither are dull fixed stars, if you're curious.

They aren't visible enough to have an astrological effect.

You're free to use anything you like in your astrology.

We just don't deal with outers, asteroids, etc. in this part of the forum.

Understand now?

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