Most elevated planet, how does yours directly benefit you?

dr. farr said:

Uranus and Mercury highest (in longitudinal elevation) for me-and both these planets really have had an important influence over the events of my life, and especially so my OUTLOOK on and about life.

Here's an additional point, though, regarding elevation of planets: planets IN DECLINATION are relative to the equator, so planets IN HIGH DEGREE OF DECLINATION are actually high above the horizon in the sky as we see it from the surface of the Earth.
Some of the oldtimers considered the planet with the HIGHEST DEGREE OF DECLINATION, (rather than the highest elevation in longitude in the chart) as the most prominent planet in the given chart: this is interesting, since-for example-we find that Pluto was the highest planet in degree of declination in the chart of the time of the first man-made nuclear reaction (December 2, 1942:3:35 PM, Chicago, Illinois) and Pluto was the highest planet in degree of declination again, at the moment of the dropping of the first atom bomb (and beginning of the nuclear weapons era) at Hiroshima 3 years later (August 1945).
I think there is much to this "most prominent planet by elevation above the equator via declination" concept, which is totally disregarded today (both in Traditional and in Modernist astrology)...

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I have no planet above the equator. Dr farr. I got confused with the declination bit. I thought is Mars most elevated. Perhaps you could help me to figure out. Here is the PDF with the declinations.

View attachment 41682

The Ram said:

General consensus is that yes, the North node is exalted in Gemini and the South in Sag. A good amount believe that they have no exaltation as well. But many, many astrologers believe otherwise.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=_JnhfHKH0NMC&pg=PA29&lpg=PA29&dq=north+node+exalted&source=bl&ots=FTxmGd4W_Q&sig=F7JxVGr-WO-6XOHKcLzenQBQn20&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ns3MUc7NFejUiwLjoYAQ&ved=0CEIQ6AEwAzgK#v=onepage&q=north%20node%20exalted&f=false

http://www.cco.net/~trufax/research/The%20North%20and%20South%20Nodes.pdf

The Dragon's Head, a "shadow planet" exalted in Gemini, is considered benefic (good), whilst the Dragon's Tail, exalted in Sagittarius, is considered malefic (evil) in influence.

http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/nodes.html
NORTH NODE Glyph:

Exalted in: Gemini
In Fall in: Sagittarius
SOUTH NODE Glyph:

Exalted in: Sagittarius
In Fall in: Gemini


Finally Ptolemy's table of essential dignities:

http://mithras93.tripod.com/lessons/lesson7/[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]

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In that case my NN in Gemini is closest to the MC....

Declination is how "high" (above the equator) a planet or other horoscopic point is: if the number in the declination PDF is 0 it means the planet is at the equator, the greater the number of declination the higher above the equator the planet (or point) is: in your case the Moon has the highest degree of declination @ 24 degrees, so could be looked at as the most "elevated" planet (in the sky) in your chart: since its over 24 degrees declination, your Moon has also temporarily jumped out of the bounds of the ecliptic, and would be regarded by certain Modernist practitioners as being an "out of bounds" planet (there are a couple of books about planets in declination and "out of bounds", from Modernist authors, available at astroamerica.com)

Mercury then (at least among the planets) has a double elevation hit: highest in longitude (conjunct the MC) and highest above the equator by declination: Mercury would be (by these criteria) extremely significant in your nativity!

dr. farr said:

Declination is how "high" (above the equator) a planet or other horoscopic point is: if the number in the declination PDF is 0 it means the planet is at the equator, the greater the number of declination the higher above the equator the planet (or point) is: in your case the Moon has the highest degree of declination @ 24 degrees, so could be looked at as the most "elevated" planet (in the sky) in your chart: since its over 24 degrees declination, your Moon has also temporarily jumped out of the bounds of the ecliptic, and would be regarded by certain Modernist practitioners as being an "out of bounds" planet (there are a couple of books about planets in declination and "out of bounds", from Modernist authors, available at astroamerica.com)

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Ohhhh So it doesn't matter whether the declination is north or south?

dr. farr said:

Declination is how "high" (above the equator) a planet or other horoscopic point is: if the number in the declination PDF is 0 it means the planet is at the equator, the greater the number of declination the higher above the equator the planet (or point) is: in your case the Moon has the highest degree of declination @ 24 degrees, so could be looked at as the most "elevated" planet (in the sky) in your chart: since its over 24 degrees declination, your Moon has also temporarily jumped out of the bounds of the ecliptic, and would be regarded by certain Modernist practitioners as being an "out of bounds" planet (there are a couple of books about planets in declination and "out of bounds", from Modernist authors, available at astroamerica.com)

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In your opinion, should we consider Moon nodes? or Chiron even?

Thank you for the information about my Moon. I have a feeling my children 5th would be much higher status than me perhaps. And in Chinese astrology, it indicates my Friends are people from high social status which I do get along well with the authorities at work, which in western Moon rules my 11th house also. Very interesting.

The Ram said:

Ohhhh So it doesn't matter whether the declination is north or south?

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Some have said the planet must be in the hemisphere where the person is or was born: however, the oldtimers (who looked at this "prominence by declination" matter as significant) said that-for this purpose (of determining prominence in the chart) the N or S did not matter: I follow this outlook.

dr farr. thanks for your new information of my ANOTHER area of research, just can't stop searching

Here is what I found about Out of Bounds so far:

"Most Out of Bounds planets are in Gemini or Cancer (Northern declination) or Sagittarius and Capricorn (Southern declination).


...planets that are out of bounds describe the ability to function outside of the box. These positions often describe those with an intense need for personal freedom; lateral thinkers; original artists; people who are not bound by normal conventions and the rules of society; and sometimes people who are just lawless.


Therefore many original and unusual people have out of bounds planets. For example Mozart had an out of bounds Mars at 27N11 and also at 0 Cancer. This may have described his genius, particularly as Mars was also involved in a quintile pattern (creativity).


Many modern day astrologers have ‘out of bounds’ planets as astrology is presently not part of mainstream thought. This is particularly the case for astrologers who can be termed ‘original thinkers’ and offer new ideas or new information in our area."

http://aliceportman.com/what-is-out-of-bounds/

poyi said:

In your opinion, should we consider Moon nodes? or Chiron even? .

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Answer: I really can't say!
Personally I do not bring the Nodes into these considerations of elevation (by longitude or by declination) However, I do consider another "spatial point", Lilith, in these considerations, so I can't offer any definite suggestion one way or the other.
I have not investigated or experimented with Chiron, and have not used it, so I cannot offer any answer about that asteroid.

dr. farr said:

Answer: I really can't say!
Personally I do not bring the Nodes into these considerations of elevation (by longitude or by declination) However, I do consider another "spatial point", Lilith, in these considerations, so I can't offer any definite suggestion one way or the other.
I have not investigated or experimented with Chiron, and have not used it, so I cannot offer any answer about that asteroid.

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I see.

In term of asteroid. Ceres is the most elevated in term of asteroid in declination. It is at 25 57' 2"S and it squares my natal Sun. But then again, we have very little understanding how to apply these asteroid. The common theme is Nurturing along with my Moon. Square is nurturing others but not nurturing myself. While Moon in Capricorn also is feeling of not being nurtured especially younger age.

Ok then, I'll use it that way too. Then that makes my moon the highest in declination at 23'11 degrees South. My Murcury's only 6 north.

That makes more sense to me actually.

Since dr farr suggested that my moon is Out of Bounds. I did further research in case if other members also are having Out of Bounds as the most elevated planet. Interesting to know that Victor Hugo, Stephen King, Albert Einstein have out of bound Moon also. Obviously they have other harmonic aspects to back up their out of ordinary creativity.

http://www.astronumerologywisdom.com/out-of-bounds-planets.html

http://www.astrologykings.com/advanced-lessons/out-of-bounds-planets/

http://www.forrestastrology.com/General-Astrology/the-out-of-bounds-moon

The extremeness of the Out of Bound Moon, totally match with my reading on my Chinese astrology chart. I can choose to be real evil b*tch or totally inspirational.

In assessing planetary strengths in a chart, I have for years used 17 degrees or more of decliination, N or S, ("high declination") as a factor in weighting, in a way similar to a planet being in its own term.

I have limited my own use of the term "elevation" to "proximity to the MC"...that is, in a somewhat similar way to "rising," both terms then referring to mundane position.

In the case of Hiroshima, Uranus was "elevated" by this measure, in Gemini....the bomb exploded 2000 feet above the surface. When Tenseng Norgay and Edmund Hillary reached the peak of Everest, Jupiter smiled down on the them from on high.

The equator (measured by Right Ascension) is symbolically the center, or belt, of the Earth. It represents "normalcy" in a sense, what is common to all. High declination, then, indicates a "leaning out and away" from the common perspective, a particularly individualized manner of seeing and dealing with things. The higher the declination, the more exaggerated the lean. By holding declination higher than the obliquity of the ecliptic, a planet might be seen as beyond what is normally accepted, permitted, condoned, expected.... it may indicate genius of a sort, or extreme deviation. Dr. Farr uses the term "elevation" in reference to declination, as well as "out of bounds." I certainly agree that these conditions are significant and deserve attention in interpretation, provided we don't give them disproportionate importance.

Pluto, with its highly inclined orbital plane (17 degrees) can, when in or near solsticial signs, exhibit extremely high declination for long periods of time due to its very slow ecliptical motion when its nodes are at right angles to the solsticial points (when Pluto is at its own bending). During World War II it held its highest declination for this cycle at 23N22, very nearly as high as the obliquity of the ecliptic at that time. In the latter half of the 10th century its declination was 26N23...."out of bounds" to an extreme. In 28BC, when the Roman Empire was expanding its power and dominating the world, Pluto held a declinaton of over 30 degrees. In 1009BC Pluto's declination reached 33 degrees....so we see that the relationship of Pluto's nodes with the solsticial points can bring it to extremes of declination for long periods of time, and so it would be "the most elevated planet" during dozens of years. In 4013BC Pluto's declination reached very nearly 40 degrees...near the maximum possible. Too bad we don't have historical records for these ancient times to show us what effects might correlate to these extremes of declination.

In regard to most elevated Planet in one's chart. With Yuri Gagarin, a Russian man who was one of the first men in Space.

The most elevated planet in his chart was Out of Bound Moon in Sagittarius which was also the closest to his MC.

VERY Interesting reading of his chart here:
http://livingmoonastrology.com/tag/out-of-bound-moon/

He has been described by people who knew him personally as ‘full of good spirit” and “beaming like the sun”; keywords that would sound very appropriate in an astrological description of the Sagittarius Moon.

Surely, OOB Moon also in his 10th house, he became known by the world and his Moon surely had brought the world a lot of hope and joy of the long journey/bounced off earth (lol) he took.

Is the elevated planet always *above* the Asc?

I have pluto in 11th (scorpio), but feel that my nep/uranus/sat in the 1st of cappy has more influence on my life. I do feel and suffer from drastic setbacks, passions, transformations from the pluto opposition sun aspect, but I am very dreamy and my personality is more influenced by the 1st house.. I also suffer internally from emotional/mood problems, which aggravate themselves in the cancer mars opposition my stellium in the 1st cappy. This aspect seems to wreak havoc on my life, and always stemming from some kind of relationship drama.

Where the elevated planet is with regard to the horizon depends on the definition of elevated.

I define it as a planet in the 9th or 10th house, proximate the MC....so by this definition the elevated planet is not only above the horizon but in one of those two houses. The full and strict definition is actually even more limiting, but this looser definition will suffice. A planet in the 11th House does not qualify as "elevated," although such a planet may be referred to by that term in certain contexts...for example, in comparing the two ends of an opposition, the upper planet might be referred to as elevated over the opposing planet.

Dr. Farr uses the term "most elevated planet" for the planet holding the highest declination, without regard to its mundane position (that is, without regard to its location relative to the horizon.) This definition allows the planet to occupy any house of the horoscope.

There is no conflict between the two definitions. They are two completely different measures. We are talking about apples and oranges. Both are valid and useful.

For a comparison of the two in a single event chart, use Hiroshima (6 August 1945, 0815, Hiroshima, Japan.)
In that chart you will find Uranus precisely on the MC....and Pluto holds the highest declination of any planet at that moment, 23 deg. 29 min. north of the equator. Another interesting (and pertinent) feature of that chart is that Pluto stands within a few degrees of the midpoint of Mars/Neptune, the two planets that bind the "bundle" planetary pattern, and in fact is exactly on the midpoint of Uranus/Neptune. We also see that Mercury, lord of the horoscope, is stationary retrograde in the 12th House of Suffering, Sorrow, Mourning......

Pluto also holds the highest elevation (by declination) at the time of the first man-made atomic chain reaction (the University of Chicago Pile activation, December 2, 1942, 3:35 PM)-this, with the Pluto elevation (and declinational Parallels) in the Hiroshima chart, and several other significant connections of Pluto in the Chicago Pile first man-made atomic chain reaction chart, symbolically point to an affinity of Pluto with atomic fission. Note too that in the Hirsohima disaster chart, Uranus is most elevated relative to ecliptic points (conjunct the MC)-and uranium (U238) was the substance of the atomic bomb used-there are also several important Uranus connections (actually combined Uranus/Pluto connections) in the Hiroshima chart (and remember, the atomic disaster at Hiroshima is the "birth chart" for the era of nuclear weapons)

I will add (although its off topic) that Lilith was atmakaraka in the Hiroshima (birth of the nuclear weapons era) chart...

I wonder if any powerful men or women also have elevated pluto and Uranus while the pope might have either jupiter or Neptune I assumed or perhaps Sun also. The extraordinary people might have OOB at the same time close to MC.

I would like to suggest, for purposes of this thread only, in order to avoid confusion...

That we use "elevated" to indicate a planet located at the MC
And "highest declination" to indicate that condition.
Or some other terminology that distinguishes between these forms of "elevation" without ambiguity.

And now, off topic for just a moment:
Pluto rules not only nuclear fission (and fusion)...
but such things as the union of sperm and ovum, resulting in the "death" of the two and their transformation into the one.
And supernovae where through the death of stars, the heavy elements -- the stuff of life -- are created.

There is a currently active thread dealing with Pluto, but because the thread has turned into a circus I decided not to post to it...
Pluto is very little understood and deserves a thoughtful thread.
From many points of view, Pluto is the most powerful planet in the heavens.
To answer the question in that other thread...Yes, it matters, very much.

The Hiroshima chart could be the subject of a thread from which we could learn much. The comments on that chart offered so far only begin to scratch the surface.

I like the the clarity of using "elevated" for the MC and "highest declination" to refer to highest relative to the equator-I'll follow that!

The "What does Pluto do?" thread in the Predictive Forum, offers a place for open and positive discussion of Pluto (hope that thread doesn't get trolled!!)

I agree, PLUTO MATTERS