scorpio stereotypes

Hi all,

I am still a newbie in astrology, but I find it interesting that scorpios seem to attract much more stereotypes than other signs.

I am not saying scorpios are pastel-coloured little angels, but do depth and intensity really have to mean that we are all mere puppets of our impulses and emotions?

How come, then, that the most destructive people in human history were coming from all kinds of signs, shouldn't the vast majority be scorpios?

Why is it that the evil of a scorpio (like Rommel) is "typical" of that sign but the evil of a leo (Mussolini or Castro), an aquarius (Kim Jong-il), a sagittarius (Stalin), an aries (Hitler) etc is not "typical" at all?

Why is it that when you meet a "bad" scorpio, then they are a typical scorpio, while the "badnesss" of a leo, an aquarius, a sagittarius or an aries are almost always due to other factors of the chart as if there was no inherent evil (or goodness) in all signs (and people)?

Are scorpios really so much more frequently victims of their own unconscious or do they really victimize others so much more frequently than the other signs, or is it just easier to project on them (as a group, and as individuals) certain aspects of being human that we are not so comfortable with?

Is it because we are at home in the dusk and the dark where things come to a life invisible by the light of day? Does the night merely hide your familiar world, doesn't it also allow your eyes to observe your beloved stars?

T.

I agree. I always thought some descriptions went so overboard with the mysterious/sexy/secretive thing that no one besides a two-dimensional character would relate to it.

Why is it that when you meet a "bad" scorpio, then they are a typical scorpio, while the "badnesss" of a leo, an aquarius, a sagittarius or an aries are almost always due to other factors of the chart as if there was no inherent evil (or goodness) in all signs (and people)?

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Good or bad comes down to planetary dignity. All planets have the potential to be bad.

The Scorpio stereotype is perhaps the most annoying of all astrology nonsenses.

I read someone here quite seriously suggesting that all Scorpios are rapists and psycopaths such.

Total, absolute twaddle

Hey BluEyedGrl105 and Moog,

I tend to think that when somebody considers a whole group of people to be like this or like that because of one factor (and i don't think it matters whether we are talking about skin colour, spiritual/sexual/whatever orientation, mental illness or sun sign), it is the same kind of mechanism at work. We want to control something that makes us feel uneasy.

It is much more pleasant to conclude, for example, that all people with blue hair are nasty than to conclude that - for one reason or another - I invite "nasty" people into my life, and, as I am attracted to people with blue hair, chances are that the most "nasty" person(s) in my life will be from among them... of course, when we are talking about inner stuff, the picture gets more complicated, because there is also a reason why somebody has all their four marriages with abusive partners, and other stuff like that.

I don't believe that scorpios attract more stereotypes than any of the other signs.

In general it seems, scorpios, pisces, cancers, and geminis receive about equal measure of stereotyping. especially in the negative sense. i think scorpios gain attention because of sex factors. so if say, you are researching compatability between signs and so on... most people are going to be drawn to the all the sex talk having to do with scorpio astrology.

really depends what you are looking into and/or researching.


and stalin and hilter were both taureans

Hi ashriia,

personally, I am just trying to find my way with astrology.

but I generally dislike generalizations

I understand that it is the nature of life that certain patterns exist, but it also seems to be the nature of life that these patterns are themselves in constant change (why/how they change is irrelevant atm). So i guess the issue of stereotypes is also a question about astrology itself, how rigid or alive is it? how much of it is set in stone, and how much of it is alive? From an astrological point of view, how does the individual relate to the whole (to a pattern)?

Therese said:

Hi ashriia,

personally, I am just trying to find my way with astrology.

but I generally dislike generalizations

I understand that it is the nature of life that certain patterns exist, but it also seems to be the nature of life that these patterns are themselves in constant change (why/how they change is irrelevant atm). So i guess the issue of stereotypes is also a question about astrology itself, how rigid or alive is it? how much of it is set in stone, and how much of it is alive? From an astrological point of view, how does the individual relate to the whole (to a pattern)?

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Not sure I follow..
trying to understand your thinking here though. You are aware that patterns exist in life...and that they are in constant flux.. why & how these changes occur your not interested in currently. but you are questioning patterns in astrology and possible rigidity to these patterns. but to respond to that i think would require a how and why.

i do believe alot of astrology is alive. the aspects seen in a chart are integrative over time, depending on how someone has worked on problem areas in their personalities or denied others.. not all aspects effect people in the exact same way.. but overall, there may be similarities with others who share a particular aspect. so that would be the pattern.
was that what you were wondering at ? or am i way off?

I agree with OP. Its irritating how there is so much stereotypes associated with the sign Scorpio. These include; intense, high-sex drive, possessive, powerful, mysterious, magnetic and fearless... I wish I had these qualities and I am Scorpio sun with Scorpio ASC. I have kind eyes, I wish I had the famous Scorpio stare. These judgments are probably why several people think astrology is BS.

hi Ashriia,

Thanks a lot, basically that's what I wanted to know. Because at first look, I mean, you look at a chart and it seems static, while the individual is never static, nor is the environment that surrounds them. So there seems to be some contradiction there...

when you say "the aspects in a chart are integrative over time, depending on how someone has worked on problem areas in their personalities or denied others" do i understand well that you are talking about the secondary progressed chart (among other things)?

so, if my secondary progressed chart looks totally different from my birth chart, that's normal, and that is the chart I should study right now? or should i be comparing my natal chart with the secondary progressed one?

I am sorry, I am asking a lot of questions and it is totally okay if you do not have the time for this. I am doing my homework, reading astrology books... do you have a favourite that you feel helped you a lot?

I'm actually pretty much interested in how and why patterns change, but it is a huge topic, I'd be happy to open a new thread about it if you are interested. atm I just wanted to focus on understanding how astrology views these patterns, how rigidly or flexibly.

Thanks again!

T.

lol, Erickaf,

how Scorpio do I look?

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=467558&postcount=104

I bet you're scared

T.

Therese said:

lol, Erickaf,

how Scorpio do I look?

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=467558&postcount=104

I bet you're scared

T.

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Just your eyes? Can't really tell. But honestly the most 'intense' and smoldering people I have met are Cancer ascs or Cancer people....

Therese said:

hi Ashriia,

Thanks a lot, basically that's what I wanted to know. Because at first look, I mean, you look at a chart and it seems static, while the individual is never static, nor is the environment that surrounds them. So there seems to be some contradiction there...

when you say "the aspects in a chart are integrative over time, depending on how someone has worked on problem areas in their personalities or denied others" do i understand well that you are talking about the secondary progressed chart (among other things)?

so, if my secondary progressed chart looks totally different from my birth chart, that's normal, and that is the chart I should study right now? or should i be comparing my natal chart with the secondary progressed one?

I am sorry, I am asking a lot of questions and it is totally okay if you do not have the time for this. I am doing my homework, reading astrology books... do you have a favourite that you feel helped you a lot?

I'm actually pretty much interested in how and why patterns change, but it is a huge topic, I'd be happy to open a new thread about it if you are interested. atm I just wanted to focus on understanding how astrology views these patterns, how rigidly or flexibly.

Thanks again!

T.

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Hi again Therese,

Actually i was moreso thinking in terms of just the natal chart alone and transits. I didn't even consider progressed charts actually when i replied.
I was thinking in terms of transiting planets, particularly of outer planets that make conjunctions to natal planets which bring that area of life up for inspection, or it might also get projected onto others so either way we face the problem. Either way, changes will need to be made - adjustments. and how to choose to work through that area of life is individualistic. The chart, can't determine that. That is really where free will is apparent.

Especially in the case of Saturn and Pluto transits to natal houses. Both cause great challenges to our lives. But like with pluto you can either hold on and be totally obsessed and power hungry for the rest of your life in that area that pluto influences natally. or you can let go...move on... transform and find fulfillment in that area of life. it's totally up to the individual.

just my 2 cents

If a person has just their sun in scorpio, they will not be as strongly scorpio as a person with multiple planets in scorpio, multiple strong aspects to Pluto or an eighth house stellium.

With that being said, I have never met a sun sign scorpio who didn't have that underlying intensity and mystery, its often hard to know what they are really thinking. It seems to me that they all have the capacity for that famous scorpio sting when mad!

We're admittedly a very selfish species by that which we see to destroy that which we fear having in our lives instead of letting it go and live and let live.

It is a very disgusting part of the human race: We were built to destroy that only we do not understand; admittedly, that serves to be any fear imagined or real. Lives, nature and all of civilization is destroyed, just because we never took the time to learn further. Human suffering comes out of such a deep selfish fear of what would happen if we were to ackinowledge something.

Judgement is but the way towards man's own destruction. I would never in the least dub it as human nature or even unforgivable. Ever. It is the most disgusting barbaric habit we could ever pick up.

That Scorpio stereotype; remember that the archetype of any particular sign is modified by the aspects to it. From the perspective of a Scorpio Rising, this is the way in which we project ourselves out into the public; the ASC is only the image we express as one component of the total self.
Yes, I have often used the 'stare'; yes I am emotionally intense; yes I am often perceived as being secretive and mysterious. Scorpio is about penetrating into the depths of all things; digging out the roots of things; is driven to find meaning and substance in life; also, the survival instinct is often very strong, and I have often found that I have had to stand firmly in my own defence, and in the defence of others. Think in terms of the symbol of the scorpion; is definitely equipped for self-defence and will stand against any imminent threat; still it prefers to retreat under rocks for protection, in order to survive. Afflictions to Scorpio tend to bring out that scorpion sting..that fight or flight instinct...that is what makes us seem dauntless. Afflictions will also bring out vindictiveness, resentment and anger due to the need for power and control. Again, the primary mandate is about self-defence. We are also driven to critical psychological transformations due to the various crises we tend to encounter along the way. Life is serious business. Many of us prefer to work alone so as to avoid the interference of others; this makes us seem secretive. Scorpio is under the karmic mandate to transform from the lower instincts of the lesser consciousness, and to rise high above to soar like the eagle [higher consciousness] to see beyond the petty concerns of the physical world, in search of deeper, more mystical awareness...this is the higher expression of Scorpio; our lessons also involve the right use of power and control. Instead of using power to control others, we are to learn about mastering our own emotions. Imbued with great intensity and drive we can acquire great profundity and knowledge in our journey; we can perceive life from a broader perspective to see the greater picture of life; thus we often get impatient with superficiality. It is only when living on the lower level of consciousness that individuals tend to sink to the baser instincts of inappropriate lust, greed, power plays and attempts to manipulate others; obsessions and jealousies, anger or violence and possessiveness all arise from triggers hidden deep within the psyche. Cross us and we can be a formidable enemy; understand us and we will take you to greater level of awareness and understanding...and we will be your most ardent defender. These are things I have learned under the guise of the Scorpio persona.

Hi Ashriia,

OH! I have so many things going on in my natal chart that planetary "interactions" seem overwhelming. So it is actually easier to look at those planets that do not interact with each other. I guess it is only a poetic question whether stelliums count, lol

I am not sure what I think, whether in life we solve one problem and go to the next one, or that we have a few bigger issues and we are just always taking them to the next level (if all goes well). I tend towards the latter, I guess. In either case, I think I "get" what you say.

Natally, saturn is conjunct with my moon in virgo. I just played with progressions to my chart to find out when my saturn return was. well, it was quite a year for me, for sure. Very emotional and very self-reflexive at the same time. I was put in a situation where I could basically re-live a childhood trauma, so it was also a tremendous opportunity to gain a new perspective on what happened (meaning how I perceived it consciously and unconsciouly at the time). and I realized quite a lot about how my psyche works in those depths where consciousness rarely fights to shed light on.

So I guess I "get" the power of saturn, as well.

T.

Hi all,

I have my sun in scorpio, and a stellium of uranus, mercury, venus and mars in the fifth house in Scorpio, so I should be quite scorpionic, I guess...

About negative stereotypes:

for example, herbal women, female shamans, etc, also used to be considered "intense" and "mysterious", but they were tolerated for a while even during the middle ages,sometimes even respected (depending on what they did for others).

However, there came a distinct shift in the collective consciousness starting from the 16th century, when they suddenly became witches, even women who had nothing to do with "alternative religious practices" were labelled so and they were tortured and burnt on the stake.

Good, law abiding citizens have a tendency to turn into a bloodthirsty mob and people attended the tortures as if they were going to the movies.

We jump to 20th century Europe and the Holocaust, mostly in Germany, but not only, good law-abiding "average" citizens turned into a cruel, insensitive mob and witnessed the torture and killing of a minority for being different (not to mention those who took active part in it). And I have not mentioned the rest of the world, Asia, America, Africa...

in my opinion, there is nothing as dangerous as "the majority" and "the normal"...

T.

Therese said:

Why is it that the evil of a scorpio (like Rommel) is "typical" of that sign but the evil of a leo (Mussolini or Castro), an aquarius (Kim Jong-il), a sagittarius (Stalin), an aries (Hitler) etc is not "typical" at all?

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Hitler was actually a Taurus -but barely so. Rommel was actually a good general and part of the plot to remove Hitler -he died because of that.

You are right to question generalizations and stereotypes -that's sunsign astrology prone to massive error. Best to judge on a case-by-case basis considering everything about a person's chart.

Like yourself I have a large stellium in Scorpio and should be so Scorpionic to the max, yet I come across as Sag and Libra (my ASC and Mars) I feel like (and have the soul of) a Sag. -my Moon, and my Scorpio stellium is mostly in in the 11th -a very social house of friends and groups, and truly I've known people of other signs whose luminaries hard-aspected Pluto and/or resided in the 8th house and they were more sterotypically Scorpio than I am! So we MUST consider the whole picture!

That said, some generalizations about signs DO apply but can be offset by other factors- houses, placements, and timing -that is, how old the person is, and the point where they are on their individual path of evolution, and the impact of major generational transits. Sometimes a person has to work through the negative overleaves of their sign (and they all have them -any sign can be "dark") before self actualization into the soul purpose of the sign. Healing and integration work (esp. meditation)help tremendously in that regard.

The Sun is the ego and essential purpose and Scorpio's basic function is to process the Shadow -- "digging deep" (it is an emotionally deep sign) into the nether regions of the subconscious mind, the so-called 'dark side', and such may manifest as an inclination or fascination with dark things. It's why I wear a black leather jacket! Conscious awareness of self and this process goes a long way to defusing the trap of being overtaken by shadow stuff, as Manson and co. were. But sometimes we just have to learn and grow the hard way, through experience and painful life lessons, and not let the depression (which watersigns -like Scorpio especially- tend to get mired in), obscure this growth.

hi kimbermoon,

I just found out that scorpions glow in "black light" (at full moon, for example, or under a uv lamp) And that despite being "just" bugs, their eyes are so sensitive that "they can detect the faint glow of starlight against the background of the night sky. They amplify those faint signals by turning their entire bodies into light collectors." http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/n...eir-whole-bodies-be-one-big-eye/#.UXpsdUphC8w

I find this interesting from a symbolic point of view, as well. Maybe scorpios, too, are not drawn to the night for its own sake... maybe the lights we want to perceive and "gather" are too faint or too irrelevant (for the daily business of life) for most people to care about. Together with the scariness of the dark, we are dismissed, and with us, so is the light we've found and want to share...

T.

It does seem at times that astrology is used as a way for people to vent their anger/bitterness and negativity.bit like mud slinging. So much of this lacks depth and proper research.

how about scorpio's be rememered for their integrity, loyalty and determination to succeed(seeing things through to resolution) I think of Hilary Clinton on the world stage but their are others on a more mundane every day level.