Venus square Saturn

wow 2stepbay thats a really interesting interpretation - one that I had never seen previously - though the need for excersize figures strongly in other ways through my 'no earth' chart. I'm definately going to take that on board. The art of astrology really is in seeing beyond the basic keyword interpretations. Thanks.

2stepbay said:

Saturn's Leo rules as they relate to Scorpio are pretty simple: "stay out of drama"; channel your life force through physical exercise - "thinking" is not your ally. If you find yourself "over thinking" it's a clear sign there's too much heat in your body systems, and you need to exercise to move it. Follow your bliss/heart, rather than sinking in the realm of family (4th h) family drama.

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Thanks 2step bay
Unfortunatly drama follows me around
However its interesting about doing exercise to remove the heat from my system. I am involved with exercise everyday, I am an aerobic instructor and personal trainer...these led to me becoming a fitness lecturer a few years ago!

The only time I have family drama if someone lives with me. I have no real family at all...well I do but I havent spoke to my brother for 8 years and mum or dad for about a year, the reason being that I have to ring or visit them if I want to speak to them, they never come and visit me or call even though they only live 10 minutes away in a car. It doesnt bother me that this happens although what does bother me greatly is im used to being treated like this by them but i get upset they dont bother to see how my son is??? that upsets me a lot, especially as my brother who has children the same age, are constantly being fussed over by my parents.
Last time I decided not to ring them and wait to see how long it would be before they rang was 5 years. (and then I rang them) anyway we're back into a year of no contact. I dont have any other aunties or cousins I truely am on my own, I dont just think I am!

Saying that I do have a female friend who I met about 5 years ago who is the best friend Ive ever had. I feel she is the only person that accepts me unconditionally and she is always there. I am very lucky to have a friend I would trust with my life. Incidentally I met her on an exercise course.

My heart breaks only when I think of my son having no one apart from me. His real dad (another drama at the time) hung himself about a month ago. But he didnt know him and we left him and have had no contact for 10 years.

Anyway im waffling and upsetting myself now I better go

Dawn

Astrodawn, I read your other posts last night and saw whats been going on for you. I hope you are okay and that the out of control Mars-Pluto-venus guy hasn't revisited you. It can't be easy living in unease in case of his return.

Your son has a mother that loves him very much and that is the main thing. The other is that you work on healing the resentment or other emotions you hold for the family you feel abandoned by so that you can move on and start attracting more positive people into your life. You have done it with this friend of yours. more will come. This feeling of 'unloved' 'unlovable' 'unloving' just seems to attract more of the same from others until we deal with the core issue within us.
I have been truly alone. Many times when I have had an urgent need for assistance, I only had a neighbour or a work colleague to call on for help. I often used to wonder how long it would take anyone to notice I was gone if somethign happened to me. Even now when I have lots of people around me in comparison to those times, I still occassionally fall down and feel alone (see start of thread!), but not as frequently as I did then because i'm learning slowly to watch myself - watch when i fall into a cycle of negative, restrictive, self critical, other blaming, world blaming depressed state of mind, watch when I start losing perspective, or forgeting that there is a higher dimension to all my daily realities etc...so I can pick myself up before I hit bottom. I'm learning to take my power back and I feel this is something in need for you to. It all takes time though and you will in your own time.

Anyway, i keep going of track from astrology so i apologise to everyone for not keeping to theme. My interpretations are so basic still that I cannot really contribute a great deal - I'm learning so much from you all though.

Astrodawn - wow...quite a chart. mid-60's children have the Pluto/Uranus conjunction in Virgo. Born during a period of revolution. Now, as Uranus transits Pisces it is an amazing time/opportunity for you to re-calibrate your life.

Given you have a strong T square with Neptune in Sco in the 4th opposing Jupiter in Taurus in the 10th - both squaring your Leo Ascendant, there is a strong tendency to attract friends who run drama. Your North Lunar Node in Gemini in the 11th says be playful, choose friends who feel light and supportive in a healthy way. Seems like it's time to close doors on old relationships. If "friends" seem to take more than give, then I'd say the relationship does not serve you. May be time to close some doors here.

Saturn in the 7th and Chiron in the 8th, both in Pisces points to early challenges in childhood around your sensitivity. Add a Pluto/Uranus conjunction opposing Chiron and you add a lot of intensity to the mix.

Receiving bodywork (massage, craniosacral etc) can be very supportive in helping you to reestablish a healthy sense/relationship with your sensitive, psychic channels. Seems quite important for learning how to navigate in a different way, especially as transiting Chiron in Aquarius strongly aspects your T-square through the Fall. Let the healing continue. Answer lies in your heart - just ask your Leo ascendant.

Current strong transiting Saturn cycle (conjoins the Moon/squares Venus) says it's time to clear house (if you haven't done so recently, start by discarding items you no longer use, making space for new gifts.). Add to this the Uranus cycle opposing your Mars and Pluto conjoining your Sun and you have a major period of recalibration/transformation on the front burner.

Glad to see you are active with exercise - certainly good for your 10th house Taurus/Jupiter . Only suggestion - during personal exercise time don't think or distract yourself with outside stimulation (music/talk etc) Rather, simply quiet yourself so you can "feel" without judgement your life force. Connect to your heart in new and innovative ways. Oh...if you use coffee and or chocolate, know they are not your friends - they overstimulate the nervous system, acting as a magnet for drama, while making it challenging to use your sensitivity gifts in a healthy way.

Lastly, Venus in Sag. loves to read/get information. Square with Virgo Moon encourages you to trust your gut instincts (if it's not a "yes", then it's always a "no") rather than using your mental channels. Moon opposes Saturn in Pisces. Important you feel "safe" to explore your sensitive/vulnerable nature. Otherwise, there is a tendency to "armor yourself" via exercise.

Hi guys,

I've been reading on this difficult aspect, its very interesting and has helped me understand why I can't seem to get through to someone who I hope to have a relationship with in the future. This person has Venus Conjunct Saturn in Virgo. He also has Sun conjunct Saturn in Virgo. Stellium in Virgo (4 planets).

A bit of history:
He was once one of my bosses, not anymore, I've moved to another department. I caught him watching me several times, he starred at me, maintained eye contacts and made excuses to talk to me in relation to work. I felt very attracted to him, but hardly showed my interest, I also felt very shy so I tried not to show too much. The complication at the time was that He was married and I was in a relationship. We didn't communicate about matters of attraction verbally, all our communication has been mostly eye contact and body language. Then I didn't see him for a long time and when I saw him again, the wedding ring was gone! Obviously, I wondered had it something to do with me? As I still was confused about my strong attraction towards him, I couldn't really show anything. I mentioned in one of my emails to him that I had a partner but I wanted to talk to him about his attraction towards me. He didn't answer back. I felt like he probably thought that I wasn't interested in him so I wrote again and I told him that I felt something for him too. But I also apologised if I hurt his feelings somehow and I said that lets just concentrate on work, and leave this behind us.

He knew how terrible I felt for my first email, so when I saw him again after that, he would give me quick glances as if waiting for me to come out my shell. I had gone back to thinking that this person was not the right person for me and I should concentrate on my relationship.

After that he continued giving me these intense eye contacts and I opened up a little, again just eye contact body language. But then I moved away from his department and months passed by, he didn't contact me. And I was going crazy. I wrote to him and I said I liked him, etc He didn't say anything. I wrote several emails, saying similar things, I also talked about me being in relationship and how I was a bit hesitant to take further step to meet him and talk to him. And then when I didn't receive any replies, I asked him if he could please send me an empty email if he wasn't interested, and he did.

So knowing about this aspect, I wrote an emotional email again. And I said that I was prepared to see if things between me and him could be developed. I told him I was prepared to end my relationship if things came to that. I had my doubts and fears, but ultimately I said I wanted him in my life. I asked him whether he had a fear of rejection? Why did he show me so much interest before and now nothing, I asked him to think about why he was so afraid to get hurt that he wouldn't even give this a chance. I told him happiness doesn't come to those who can't see past their own fears.

Something in my email must have got to him as I at last received an answer. Very cold tone. He, as I understand this now, is questioning my feelings for him. Whether they're true. He also asked why if he never expressed anything, talked to me about any of this, why then all these emotions, where all these feelings and emotions come from? He's making this so hard for me. Such a challenge. I feel like I've opened up so much, and yet he's still resisting. Hesitating. Questioning me. I do believe he has a low self esteem and everything that has been described previously in regards to this difficult aspect, I can see here too. I'm trying hard not to let his coldness get to me.

Does anyone have an advice that they can give to me? I feel like I'll have to keep giving him reassurances that I do feel this way and that my feelings are real and that he doesn't have to be a certain way for me to like him. I want him in my life and I know I will succeed, I hope. My Solar return for this year has a stellium -4 planets in 8th house,house of transformation and change. For next year I have pluto, sun and mars in 5th house and moon square pluto. This indicates some emotional transformation, strong emotions in a relationship. That I could only have if I were with him.

My birthdata are here:

4 january, 1979, 10:30 am, New Delhi, India.
Current location: Melbourne, Australia.

His I'm not quite sure about, I think he is born between 1-10 sep 1979, maybe with capricorn ascendant, don't know.
I use these data for him: 6 Septemeber, 1979, Melbourne, Australia, 12:30 pm.

Please please please, help me make sense of this person. I don't want him to push me away, I'm going to reach to him and get to his heart through all that coldness. I haven't seen him for 5 months so I miss him greatly. Most of what I know about him I've learned via astrology, so it scares me that I feel so strongly for him and yet I don't know very well. Our composite chart is strong too, venus conjunct pluto, mars conjunct pluto, mars conjunct pluto. In synastry, my north node is conjunct his sun, his venus, saturn all in my 7th house. His north node I believe is conjunct my saturn in vigrgo.
what can you tell me about all of this?

Thank you
/R

..............

Hello raffaela


He has Venus conjunct Saturn you say. I don't think this has the difficulties at all like the square. A conjunction should mean the energies of Saturn and Venus fuse well. It could mean this man has a serious outlook on love and relationships, that he may well entertain the idea of a love tryst with you but would not easily take the step or cross the boundary to actually make it happen. The morals could be so strong that just knowing you have a partner would keep him from approaching you or the subject of romance. But I think you also need to understand if he had really wanted romantic relations with you, he'd have approached you already. Beeing Virgo myself, I know how backwards we can be. But surely even a Virgo man become competitive and wants to conquer. You are pursuing him strongly, some Virgo men probably need this and you sense it. But I think I can say that most men find it a bit of a turn-off to be chased, and a downright nuisance if the girl don't 'get the message'. I wonder if this is the reason that you don't work at the same department anymore, he was your boss and he pulled the strings quietly to have you removed? Especially after the e-mails.
I'm sure you are right, he likes you and thinks your'e lovely, theres an attraction. That doesn't necessarily mean he wants a relationship, in fact there could be 15 girls he quietly enjoys seeing every day. A lot of men just love having attractive women around, it enriches their daily lives, they entertain pleasant thoughts but not necessarily of the fated love that some of us gals' emotions get caught up in. I really feel for you but I also think you've done all you can and it is up to him. You can't really control the situation further than this, and youv'e been brave to let him know of your feelings.

I'm a little older than you and you will know when your'e in a fulfilling relationship when these crushes don't happen. When you meet someone attractive, and you can appreciate it, but all you want to do is go home and see your partner.

But most importantly, your first Saturn return is around the corner and I get the feeling this why you are in this situation now. Saturn will transit your natal Saturn in Virgo in your 7 House, in a few months, if I have astrodienst right.

With this in mind I would tread with caution, use all your strength to contain the situation and try and look at it all in a sober way, and generally listen out for what Saturn might want to teach you.

All the best

N

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OK raffaela, all the best. One would think there would have to be a difference how the conjunction manifests, compared to the square. I'm 'home blind' to the conjunction as my natal chart consist mainly of these, and I really can't tell the difference, the planets are so integrated. I wonder if the conjunction can be terribly harmonious or terribly 'off' its highest expression, as there is no 'checks and balances' that pulls you into line. So maybe a Saturn conj. Venus person would find it very difficult to pinpoint excactly where there problem is.

Cheers,

N

spacecadet said:

..I would be glad for any input that could help me explore this further.many thanks

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Hi Spacecadet,
I've seen this thread much after some very useful advice has already been given to you by the generous community here.

Btw, after briefly studying your chart in my own astro-sofware, in my opinion, and I might well be surprising you now, your Saturn does not really form a tight square to your Venus. In fact, I feel you have a great chart with positive aspects and configs. dominating the chart, and a golden grand trine going out from your MC- your highest point, and involving your Venus.

Had I seen this thread earlier, I too would have mostly said all that Arian Maverick pointed out in her post. However, let me just add - out of my very own personal experience at the hands of tight Saturn aspects in my chart to Moon, Venus, Mars and Pluto (can it get worse!!! perhaps yes) - a person with Saturnian shadows can only get stronger and the key to that is trust in and love of oneself (don't confuse this with narcissism). A pleasant childhood and immense parental love and encouragement did give me a major portion of self-confidence, and as a believer in astrology, I would say, helped me fight those Saturnian shadows, yet I am only just beginning to understand *the importance of seeking the recognition and confirmation for my deeds and my very being mainly from within my own self and not from the outside - from others.* This is the important Saturnian lesson that we must learn in this life in order to understand our own worth and our place on this planet, and not o let our own insecurities overpower ourselves. I guess that is why in Indian astrology (which is far ahead of and much older than western astrology) they call Saturn the great karmic teacher. Saturn, perhaps usually through hardships and suffering, is the one that provides you with the answers to all those questions of 'why' and 'why me'. The answers usually lie within ourselves.

Checked on your transits, and I think, Neptune aspecting your Venus and Saturn is causing disillusionment and disappointments, which makes one question oneself and one's own worth. I would say that even though things connencted to self-worth and self-love might be your (main) issues in life - until those lessons are learned - this whole issue has been brought to the surface by the Neptune transit - but this is temporary- a transitionary phase. Just believe in yourself and remember that not only nobody has the right to judge you, but also nobody can be the yardstick for comparison. I'm only also just beginning to understand and practise this myself.

I hope you do not take my note above to be a preaching session, as it wasn't meant to be one.

Hope I could help a bit
aquarius7000

thanks Aquarius 7000 for your lovely msg! For some reason i didnt get notified of the recent messages so it was a nice surprise to find your email.
I have a grand trine?! I don't consider them if they include an angle but i will today. If it counts then it reflects my desire to be a therapist and the healing angle to the square. Through my desire to help others I heal myself. I have studied different healing methodologies over the past 10 yrs and have always intended to use them professionally to help others but have never thought i was 'fixed' enough in myself to be valid as a practitioner (I still smoke, I bite my nails and occassionally I write long help emails to forums hee hee!!). I have one client now but as Uranus travels accross my 10th and opportunities don't seem to be opening up in my day career (environmental), I feel like the universe is supporting me to move over into 'therapies'. I'm drifting of track but my point is that, my chart leads me there i believe. The air water emphasis, Saturn Leo 2nd, Venus Saturn square, moon Pluto conj etc - As you saw - lots of self esteem issues - are perhaps diffused through that trine. So thanks for stimulating that insight.
Raffaela, your posts confuse and concern me. Apart from body language this guy has given you no signals to say he is interested in seeing you outside of work yet 5 months on you are still very much immersed in him. I know firsthand how consuming Venus Scorpio passions can be and all the moon pluto type aspects between you provide the intensity you seek... But its not enough on its own. You need someone that is just as excited to see you as you are he. This guy has ignored most of your emails. It doesn't matter who he is at heart because he isn't offering to share any of himself with you. Wait it out, get your bearings then fire that ravishingness in a more rewarding direction
x

I am so sorry everyone for the above ... Computer issues! Oops

Hi,
I'd just like to add to Spacecadet's piece of advice (post from 12th June), which I completely second, I too think you should hold fire. YOu seem to be immersing in self-analysis perhaps to find answers to those unanswered questions - which actually seem to be a result of this person's lack of interest. Ths sooner you put a stop to this the less disappointed you will be at the end of the day.

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Thank you for the link Star, it's apprectiated )

Hi everyone,
I'm joining to the Ven square Saturn team.I have Venus in Gemini-2nd H,and retro Saturn in Virgo 5th h.I have read all of you and i'm totally agree with all of the info.I constanly feel not good enough in my relations with man or women.With my ex bfs i felt unworthy all the time.It's hard to me to express my feelings , it's hard to my to love somebody without to critisize.I just see the bad things in my relationship.I'm always thinking to much and have doubts if my partner loves me trully, or not.My parents are divorced, and my grandma took care of me till i was 10 years old.Last raltionship lasts 7 years and i broke up because the man i was with didn't have a clear vision about our future.He was insecure like me.I wanted familly , and he doesn't know what he wants after 7 years???
That's my experience of that aspect.I hope that somebody can say something positive about it.

Greetings,
Omnia

I was just passing by this board and I saw your message omnia. I guess no-one has anything positive to say about this aspect unfortunatly which doesn't surprise me. I'm just learning to live with it (or it would be more appropriate to say without it-a loving happy trusting open relationship), and trying to accept that this is the way it is and all I can do is try to love myself more and improve my self-esteem etc...But welcome to our support group. I hope you have found some way to manage the energies a bit better since you last wrote.

spacecadet said:

I was just passing by this board and I saw your message omnia. I guess no-one has anything positive to say about this aspect unfortunatly which doesn't surprise me. I'm just learning to live with it (or it would be more appropriate to say without it-a loving happy trusting open relationship), and trying to accept that this is the way it is and all I can do is try to love myself more and improve my self-esteem etc...But welcome to our support group. I hope you have found some way to manage the energies a bit better since you last wrote.

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The "good thing about it" is that *if* you learn how to overcome what is negative about such an aspect, you have a great deal to teach other people, later, about love and about trust.

I don't have the square. But I have the conjunction in the 12th house, and if I allowed myself to be swayed by all the negative things I've heard about that, I'm not sure I'd have anything positive to say to anyone.

It's true that a conjunction is not a square—or an opposition—and many say that it is easier to "see" the problem or challenge in a conjunction, but in my experience any "hard" aspect between Saturn and Venus indicates a difficult lesson to be learned.

Depending where it is and what it is aspecting it can denote relationship that is based on practicality and can endure because of a sense of loyalty rather than great love. It can mean a loved one who is rather patronising and parental and can be a represssive aspect. Also there can be periods of poverty and limitation if connected in synastry or composite charts.
There can be a sense of not being loved or lovable certainly. Due largely to criticism or needing to be proper and responsible.

spacecadet said:

I was just passing by this board and I saw your message omnia. I guess no-one has anything positive to say about this aspect unfortunatly which doesn't surprise me. I'm just learning to live with it (or it would be more appropriate to say without it-a loving happy trusting open relationship), and trying to accept that this is the way it is and all I can do is try to love myself more and improve my self-esteem etc...But welcome to our support group. I hope you have found some way to manage the energies a bit better since you last wrote.

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While it is a challenging aspect it can be one of growth and it has a karmic connection from the past. When you are with someone in that way, there are lessons to be learned about love. It can grow into a mature and enduring love but will never be frivolous and spontaneous. Essentially serious and can indicate one great love and with an older person. There are many scenarios and without squares we do not grow, so welcome it as an aspect of potential depth and maturity.