I have a aspect pattern Pandora's Box, need help to understand.

Yes, I feel Saturn play a huge part in my growth, I had no idea about the power of Saturn, until one day during my Libra transit, I read something about it out random, it hit me like "wow", it describe my experience so accurately I started to truly feel a deep respect for the power of astrology. there are three major planets: S&U conjunction, and Pluto in Libra for us. I wonder what's going to happen when it transit the other conjunction (V&N) later in Sag. may be even more so for you, since your V&N conjunction is so dominate. It seems there are more to come the way our planets play out in our chart (so introvert).

But death(or reconstruction) always come with pain, it's the only way. I guess I'm toughened by pain by now, although it will always hurt, but at least I know it will end, and after it ends we will become a bigger, stronger and happier person. There is no escaping it, either embrace the pain, or die a slow death of gaping emptiness of an ambivalent existence. Yeah, I see that in people too, when the chasing of material wealth do not bring them the "happiness" they believed it "should", I see how people feel such need to destroy a simpler, cosmic joy from non-material things in others, Kill-joy, I call them. It's like they need to justify their unhappiness by twist the cosmic law of happiness, so that those who don't "play" with the rules of man's game suffers too, only in doing so, they can erase the truthful feeling of "emptiness, misery" which usually lead to a meaningful death of ego and man-made value system, and hold on to "life as they know it", otherwise, the truth is...life is wasted in such a profound way... otherwise they have to feel the pain of "death". they live in the joys of man, and may never know the joy of Cosmo...

I just asked my HR person when I took on my new role at my firm and it was in March of 2006. I find the timing uncanny considering the transits and how Saturn went direct at the beginning of Apr 2006 after going back into opposition with Jupiter. Fascinating.

StillOne said:

I just asked my HR person when I took on my new role at my firm and it was in March of 2006. I find the timing uncanny considering the transits and how Saturn went direct at the beginning of Apr 2006 after going back into opposition with Jupiter. Fascinating.

Click to expand...

I found out it was 4/18/2006 I made contact with him, and the chronicle of events that lead to my discovery of his articles happened in March of 2006... this gives me goose bumps.

Also, do you know when ( the relative dates) Saturn recently went retrograde over our Sun Ur conjunction? I don't know how to find out the Saturn transit positions.

zenith said:

this gives me goose bumps.

Click to expand...

Very much so!!

Certainly makes you wonder what will happen when Saturn hits Venus/Neptune...

Just goes to show how important it is to watch the transits.

zenith said:

Also, do you know when ( the relative dates) Saturn recently went retrograde over our Sun Ur conjunction? I don't know how to find out the Saturn transit positions.

Click to expand...

If you haven't done so already, I highly recommend that you join the astro.com website. It's free to do so. You can store many charts in there. In the "extended chart selection" you can create numerous charts and type in the date that you wish to see the transit for. It's a bit painful to have to go back and forth trying to figure out when transits begin and end but it's the best I've found so far on the net. An ephemeris, of course, works too.

If anyone has any other recommendations for online sources of transits to natals that would be very welcome.

I'll see if I can't figure out the dates of the last Saturn transit to our Sun/Ur conj.

I'm kind of glad our V&N conjunction is not in Scorpio, with the lord of the underworld, love, lack of boundary, death and all that goodies...and threw in some energy called Pandora in the mix...yup, glad it's in Sag.

I asked the date because Feb of this year something happened and it kind of changed something in me and life as I know it in a way... but if it's difficult then don't worry about it, I will see what astro.com can tell me.

Ok, here are some dates:

Saturn:
23Lib Nov 6th 2011
27Lib Dec 15 2011
Rx 29Lib Feb 8 2012
Direct 23Lib June 26th 2012

What's interesting then in your chart is that Saturn sat for 2 months conjunct your Sun. I think that's called a Station. Then of course Saturn went retrograde from Feb 8 backing over your Sun and Uranus until it goes direct June 26th at 23Libra. So right on our Uranus (also my Sun). Of course then it went over our planets direct once more making sure that we'd learned the message.

StillOne said:

Ok, here are some dates:

Saturn:
23Lib Nov 6th 2011
27Lib Dec 15 2011
Rx 29Lib Feb 8 2012
Direct 23Lib June 26th 2012

What's interesting then in your chart is that Saturn sat for 2 months conjunct your Sun. I think that's called a Station. Then of course Saturn went retrograde from Feb 8 backing over your Sun and Uranus until it goes direct June 26th at 23Libra. So right on our Uranus (also my Sun). Of course then it went over our planets direct once more making sure that we'd learned the message.

Click to expand...

On Feb 15th my step-father passed away... it was months of mourning and come to acceptance of that lose... Nov-Dec of 2011, I've experienced the most intense rage I have ever felt in my whole life...it was a time I could actually, literally, act to destroy others...but I didn't, at that point I know there is nothing in this world can drag me down to the path of darkness... it's intense, very very intense... may be a blissful ignorance of not knowing what to expect is actually mercy of the Cosmo...

Thank you Stillone, I've been crying and reading on Saturn Rx/transit personal planets. It's emotional to remember... thank you for bring light to some of the whys.

Zenith,

For what it's worth, my best friend was born a few days before you in October of 1973 (and perhaps on the same day as StillOne...!), when the sun was in partile conjunction with Uranus.

So the differences are:

His Ascendant is a couple of degrees shy of your IC, so his houses are roughly square yours.

His moon is in conjunction with Saturn.

Mercury is a few degrees earlier in Scorpio.

So he too must have this "pandora's box" of which you speak...

I believe the Saturn station this year had a very positive effect on him. Late last year I remember him feeling very anxious about his health his future in general. But somehow earlier this year, he had a change of heart, started working out, made some new friends and got a raise at his work.

He has been able to keep up and maintain these changes (still working out, and this new group of friends is pretty solid - so probably a positive Saturn influence there.)

Like you, he has a positive, magnetic personality that attracts others easily - his job involves a lot of customer contact. But there is also a dark side where others easily get on his nerves, which he keeps to himself.

You mentioned 2005-6 being a significant time: I think it was then that he moved and quit a job he had for 10 years, along with some other pretty significant changes in his romantic and social life.

Just throwing my two cents in because I imagine a lot of the transits to natal Venus and slower planets have affected your charts in similar ways.

NancyS said:

Zenith,

For what it's worth, my best friend was born a few days before you in October of 1973 (and perhaps on the same day as StillOne...!), when the sun was in partile conjunction with Uranus.

So the differences are:

His Ascendant is a couple of degrees shy of your IC, so his houses are roughly square yours.

His moon is in conjunction with Saturn.

Mercury is a few degrees earlier in Scorpio.

So he too must have this "pandora's box" of which you speak...

Click to expand...

It looks like people born from Oct 2nd to the 25th in 1973, roughly, have this aspect pattern. It's interesting as you think the pattern wouldn't exist that long possibly, but with how the Sun moves at that time, it helps the pattern retain its shape longer which is pretty interesting.

I think depending on ones Ascendant, and so, how the pattern is situated/rotated in the chart, is very important. Also, of course, where the Moon is placed has a huge impact.

NancyS said:

I believe the Saturn station this year had a very positive effect on him. Late last year I remember him feeling very anxious about his health his future in general. But somehow earlier this year, he had a change of heart, started working out, made some new friends and got a raise at his work.

He has been able to keep up and maintain these changes (still working out, and this new group of friends is pretty solid - so probably a positive Saturn influence there.)

Click to expand...

Interesting, I've had some health concerns over the past couple of years where there were none before. One pretty major one came out of the blue. Very unusual. I've also been quite dedicated to my yoga practice, especially of late.

NancyS said:

But there is also a dark side where others easily get on his nerves, which he keeps to himself.

Click to expand...

I know this one... making sure to also forgive myself.

Thank you for sharing your friend's story. I feel a certain kinship to people like stillone, like your friend, who share so much similar energy. I'm happy that his Saturn station experience was mostly positive. My lost, in the end had the gift of a much closer relationship with my mom. We had never had so much one-on-one time, and intensive talks together...ever. so Saturn, what he took away, he gave back in other aspects... but thank both you and stillone for all the kindness sensing my pain... that love is precious.

In my short time learning astrology, I've come to a profound question, this is an astrology form, what I say next might be "offensive" to some people here...I hope not...so I ask whomever read this to see it in the light of "if it has the merit of truth in it, then it can be spoken, anywhere" not in the light of "rocking the boat".

So here is the source of the ray of light which is my question.

While Astrology keeps me on the edge of my seat, gives me goose bumps... I find I start to dismember people I know by the "knowledge" astrology gives me, putting them into little compartment of "so he can't get deeper than where his energy is located" or, "so that's the reason why"...in doing so, from my detached third eye that's always examining myself, I see myself give up on efforts, finding comfort zones, rationalize feelings... it feels like building little enclosures to restrict "possibilities" of me, and others. I find I start to "anticipate" future, ask myself not to do certain things at certain time, looking forward to certain "possibilities" that is far from "reality"... I find inside of me, a world of "illusions" that's based on "fear" and "comfort"... this is me, and I understand the sameness in human nature...so...

why do we want to gain "knowledge" that "limits"? why do we learn?

I find ego in my chart, I find ego in other's chart, I find ego wars going on purely...purely based on NOTHING. I find people I know whose chart told me he's pretty much material/physical, was actually one of "openest" person I have ever met in my life, I find people whose chart told me we have the wost possible energy clashes everywhere, actually showed me tolerance I don't truly understand, to this day. Then I realized this is also where the clash of men and Cosmo happens... astrology, no matter how powerful the knowledge we already know, there are infinite unknown exist eternally in its true "reality". and having the deepest humbleness and surrender to our limitation...and giving of self to the "chaos" of my limited understanding, and "order" of Cosmo...so I can learn what I meant to learn by stumbling upon the unknown like a deer step into the head light.

I decide to learn, but need to forget what I learned about the secrets of the stars. haven't figured out how to do that yet...I have told others that we are not meant to be mind readers, because we cannot relate to the endless possibility of who a person could be, until he/she makes a choice that radiates who he/she eventually is. It's only in the humbleness of unknown, of chaos, we are willingly swallowed by the storm, and find out inside ourselves, the unmovable things...who we truly are.

All knowledge, eventually comes to self-knowledge.

I respect astrology, its power is awestruck... but I feel this question need to be asked, so it's asked, with love.

Well, I think your question is a valid one.

I've been reading a great thread on this site lately that deals with some of this. It is proposes some conclusions that I independently came to through other sources and may have some information for you.
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35030

Another thing that is going on at the moment

http://www.thefutureminders.com/Uranus-transits/uranus-opposition-pluto.cfm

StillOne said:

... Just earlier this evening I noticed a huge reduction in anxiety by simply saying/thinking "I forgive" to whatever/whomever was hindering my tranquility and making sure to also forgive myself.

Click to expand...

This is one thing I've noticed him not doing, and I'll ask him to try it. He's not a very spiritual person, but it's worth a try. It's interesting, sometimes the simplest advice is the best...!

NancyS said:

This is one thing I've noticed him not doing, and I'll ask him to try it. He's not a very spiritual person, but it's worth a try. It's interesting, sometimes the simplest advice is the best...!

Click to expand...

It's interesting, in one of the threads I supplied a link to in an earlier post there is a man with a Pandora Box shape who is not very spiritual at all. Very similar to your friend. I think that's why it's so important to see how it is rotated/aligned in the scope.

I think one reason why I may have tuned into all this is due to my Cancer Asc as well as my Moon being in the 12th...

...what about self-honesty? the unity of who we are as a person is built on the foundation: self-honesty, in the verb, regardless if it's the pretty side, or not so pretty side of us...This is probably the frustration I felt with people I encountered on the path of light. That the Cosmo already IS, that IS include every reality we encounter, every darkness reside in or out of us, yet the path of "light" that I often see is the tempt to "erase" our own shadows, and create an illusion of reality in reality dose not exist... how can we come to the deep acceptance of others, when we can't even come to the deep acceptance of the "self"?

zenith said:

...what about self-honesty? the unity of who we are as a person is built on the foundation: self-honesty, in the verb, regardless if it's the pretty side, or not so pretty side of us...This is probably the frustration I felt with people I encountered on the path of light. That the Cosmo already IS, that IS include every reality we encounter, every darkness reside in or out of us, yet the path of "light" that I often see is the tempt to "erase" our own shadows, and create an illusion of reality in reality dose not exist... how can we come to the deep acceptance of others, when we can't even come to the deep acceptance of the "self"?

Click to expand...

Well I think this depends on your personal philosophy of life and why we are here. "Deep acceptance" is relative and can't be measured unfortunately...

I wanted to come back to the very last sentence in my first post. I think there's a reason why the others with Pandora Boxes are not here any longer. It doesn't offer any ultimate truth and possibly just complicates matters more. It may be better to leave astrology all together and just live without analyzing it all...

Most likely the reason I'm still here is that I mostly check this board while at work as I have the time then. Plus I get little tidbits here and there that I like and get a chance to maybe help someone along a bit.

Plus, as we've seen, watching transits can be useful but ultimately it seems there's nothing we can really do about what happens but to maybe be more aware...

Stillone,

YOU ARE PERFECT THE WAY YOU ARE!!! a complete being driven by true kindness more than anything else, driven by your own unique, diverse, complete energy as the Cosmo created you. What I say, or anyone else say really have no power over who you are. you are perfect! I ask these questions, and I do not look for answers in words, I look for them in deeds and emotional currents. I believe the "light" of that reality far more than I believe any accomplishments and words...even on a day like this when my energy is on the aggressive end.

So I gather here, even in silence, is who people truly are, via their choices.

Someone passed away, although she was not my immediate family, death still hits me like a train rack. All though this time we prayed for her, knowing may be it won't come to what we wish for, nothing still compares to that numbness, shock, and sadness... we all deal with it so differently...I just want to tell everyone I come across that...love yourself, love those who shared life with you, I love you all. I feel the difference, how earlier this year, mourning was so private, death was so intimate, how through that experience, I learned love need to be voiced, unconditionally.

I know now, when the Cosmo want you to experience something, teach you something, there is nothing man-made, mental preparation, planning can shield you from it, like a storm, you are tossed in, and you have to fight your way out of it, or you may be forever lost. this is how we truly learn...

Astrology is like a mountain, why do we climb it? because it's there. When words find me again, I will share my findings.

Take care of yourselves, with lots of love.

I'm so sorry for your loss... although I am feeling grouchy today, I will muster up some positive energy and send it your way... Hang in there.

Energies are up and high lately, so it’s a good time to let them out.
It has been a long while, quite a lot has happened, both in the physical and spiritual realm. The mountain of astrology… I’ve been reading a lot actually, I can’t say I am actively learning astrology, but I learned about astrology in the time I have. There are so many things can be said, but I want to filter them out to the outward expression of the simplicity of the sources. I read about the difference of sidereal and tropical. To which I have an idea, I would like to share it. The idea is, any science, learning, starts from raw data with observations. Since we didn’t really create the source of things, our path to it has to start here, even our imaginations. So the science of the effect of natural energies (here astrological energies) has on humans at condition of his/her birth, is the root of everything. Scientific methods, are methods, there is no good or bad methods, there is only functional or non-functional methods at present. The difference of modern and ancient and eastern and western astrology is the discrepancy of methods. I’d like to offer the idea that imaginative astrologers can, as an observer, look at the shifting of degrees, vs the constant, in comparison to the shift of human consciousness, like separating DNA, may be this would actually offer the science of astrology the chance to pin point sectors of universal energy. If the spectrum is broad enough, it could actually reflect sources like magnetic fields, seasonal changes as sources to understand human consciousness. It’s actually quite curious to ponder about it. But this is an idea, floating without the energy to push it forward… : P
The other thing is pretty personal, the effect of learning about astrology has on me. Looking at my own chart, having a vision of the map that made no sense at the beginning, actually begin to make a whole lot of sense now. Like the energy of yods, things I don’t feel in my consciousness was presented in a way, like when you force the computer to recognize a driver by physically linking them together, that I have to SEE it. Vision forced recognition. Then once that link was made, certain things start to make a great deal of sense. Thanks, to astrology.
The last thing is acceptance, I have read around the forum as well, about how to deal with the lack of choices in what is GIVEN. What about the ones we don’t “want”? well, to me this is like eating, it cannot be cured, stopped, satisfied by anything you do at any one day, it’s something you do every single day of your life, once that is established, huger is no longer a burden, it can be enjoyment for what we can turn that experience of eating into. In me personally, I carry a great deal of guilt as a result of the energy that was given to me, I accept that, stop beating myself up for feeling guilty, once that acceptance was made, then I can recognize when that energy was at work, vs the reality of what is going on, and I can upon recognition and consciousness, smile at myself, instead suffer from it. Hope this helps.
: )