Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

david starling

Well-known member
Blackbery, do you really think that Trump can win the national Popular-vote? He doesn't seem to be even trying to expand his base, just preaching to the choir.
 
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Dirius

Well-known member
Then we're not dealing with a given date as a static moment in time so much as with an ongoing pandemic that claims new patients and fatalities on an ongoing basis. It's like the nation is on a moving escalator, not on a stationary platform. You have to look at trajectories.

It's like: sure, Dirius. More deaths as of today in NYC. Gotcha. But we're not done with this yet.

So let's do the arithmetic. The greater NYC area, a populous and densely populated urban region, was one of the first to get hit with CV-19 last spring, before medical science had learned enough about how it spread. They didn't realize how far it traveled through airborne particles because the research hadn't been done yet. They didn't have the demographic data that we have now, about which cases were most likely to be fatal. You had a governor understandably desperate to free up ICU beds for the flood of incoming patients, which the hospitals couldn't handle. The hospitals did not have sufficient PPE, respirators, and so on, to deal with it. NYC further has many people in a high-risk category. Which also took the medical experts a while to figure out.

Then the increase in cases has been, if not exponential, at least nowhere near logistical.

Diseases can take time to spread. This is basic epidemiology. And let's look at how rapidly cases and deaths are spreading in Florida. Further, a state hit more recently has all kinds of infrastructure set up now that they wouldn't have had, were the ground zero, any more than NYC did last spring. They're the beneficiaries of NYC's experience in a tragic sort of way.

So now you've changed your position to the "its not over yet". Guess you just can't go against actual data huh? :lol::lol:

Data shows the death rate was much higher in NYC because Cuomo (democrat) was useless in handling the pandemic. As it is now, all the evidence shows the blue states have been performing much worse than red states. Lets also review some of the majestic blunders from NY state:

- Inefficient bureaucratic delays when purchasing medical/protective supplies.
- Not closing schools or business after the pandemic had begun its spread (took them one month to begin their lockdown).
- Sending infected covid19 patients into nursing homes, killing over 6000 people.

"Dr. Frieden said that if the state and city had adopted widespread social-distancing measures a week or two earlier, including closing schools, stores and restaurants, then the estimated death toll from the outbreak might have been reduced by 50 to 80 percent."
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/nyregion/new-york-coronavirus-response-delays.html
 

waybread

Well-known member
California and Florida are, by and large, MUCH healthier places to live than New York and New Jersey.

The reason for more deaths is about the immune systems of those who contracted the virus.

The hospitals in New York and New Jersey were completely overwhelmed by the number of patients with weak immune systems.

These deaths are not something Trump-supporters should be gloating about!

I agree in the main, David. Of course, there are healthy and rural parts of NY and NJ, as well as parts of CA and FL that are not healthy-- or with a lot of retirees who, by virtue of their age, are high-risk.

One wonders, had Republicans been running NY and NJ if their CV-19 patients would have walked home with a spring in their steps and a song in their heart.

I get the impression that Dirius feels smug or even happy about all of those tragic losses of life in NY and NJ when he believes it helps him score an ideological point.

I think most voters care less about ideology than they do about staying healthy. They also want political leaders who can respond quickly to a crisis.

Just now,Floridians' approval rating of Florida governor Ron DeSantis (R) is nose-diving.
https://www.heraldtribune.com/news/...mmets-amid-widely-panned-coronavirus-response

In contrast, New Yorkers' approval rating of New York governor Andrew Cuomo (D) is climbing.

https://www.rochesterfirst.com/news...l-rating-soaring-during-coronavirus-outbreak/

Only 38% of Texans (a deep red state) now approve of the job being done by Texas governor Abbott.
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/ne...bott-s-public-approval-for-COVID-15446539.php

Most of us get that the economy won't recover until the coronavirus is tamed.
 
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ElenaJ

Well-known member
"I get the impression that Dirius feels smug or even happy about all of those tragic losses of life in NY and NJ when he believes it helps him score an ideological point."

Sorry, this comment is not worthy of you, Waybread.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Another strawman.

Not talking about infection rate. I'm talking about death rate.

But keep missquoting :wink:

Um, um-- Dirius-- you do get that there's a connection???

And that the figures are in a state of flux?

And that you seem pleased if states with Democratic leadership have more dead people?

Of course Trump didn't cause CV-19, but his woeful lack of leadership in containing the disease while his executive branch had the chance is also causing his approval ratings to decline?

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

Trump remains at heart the reality TV star who takes ratings very seriously. Which is why his campaign messaging is now veering into QAnon territory.

You know about them, don't you?
 

blackbery

Well-known member
Most of the Left Media agree with you that Cuomo's response was a big failure.

Andrew Cuomo is no hero. He's to blame for New York's coronavirus catastrophe.
His record was terrible before coronavirus, but his abysmal handling of the crisis should get him thrown out of office.


On March 25, New York governor Andrew Cuomo made one of deadliest mistakes of the coronavirus crisis, signing an executive order forcing nursing homes in his state to accept patients who tested positive for coronavirus. Around 4,800 New Yorkers died from COVID-19 in those nursing homes from March to May — approximately 25 percent of all fatalities in the state.

There is no measurement at our disposal and no level of gaslighting that will change the fact that Cuomo-led New York was an utter failure.:
sick:








https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/07/the-shameless-gaslighting-by-andrew-cuomos-defenders/


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/nyregion/new-york-coronavirus-response-delays.html

Data shows the death rate was much higher in NYC because Cuomo (democrat) was useless in handling the pandemic. As it is now, all the evidence shows the blue states have been performing much worse than red states. Lets also review some of the majestic blunders from NY state:

- Inefficient bureaucratic delays when purchasing medical/protective supplies.
- Not closing schools or business after the pandemic had begun its spread (took them one month to begin their lockdown).
- Sending infected covid19 patients into nursing homes, killing over 6000 people.

"Dr. Frieden said that if the state and city had adopted widespread social-distancing measures a week or two earlier, including closing schools, stores and restaurants, then the estimated death toll from the outbreak might have been reduced by 50 to 80 percent."
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/nyregion/new-york-coronavirus-response-delays.html
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Most of the Left Media agree with you that Cuomo's response was a big failure.

Andrew Cuomo is no hero. He's to blame for New York's coronavirus catastrophe.
His record was terrible before coronavirus, but his abysmal handling of the crisis should get him thrown out of office.


On March 25, New York governor Andrew Cuomo made one of deadliest mistakes of the coronavirus crisis, signing an executive order forcing nursing homes in his state to accept patients who tested positive for coronavirus. Around 4,800 New Yorkers died from COVID-19 in those nursing homes from March to May — approximately 25 percent of all fatalities in the state.

There is no measurement at our disposal and no level of gaslighting that will change the fact that Cuomo-led New York was an utter failure.:
sick:








https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/07/the-shameless-gaslighting-by-andrew-cuomos-defenders/


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/nyregion/new-york-coronavirus-response-delays.html

Governor Newsom is apparently looking good regarding the pandemic.
 

aquarius7000

Well-known member
I agree in the main, David. Of course, there are healthy and rural parts of NY and NJ, as well as parts of CA and FL that are not healthy-- or with a lot of retirees who, by virtue of their age, are high-risk.

In contrast, New Yorkers' approval rating of New York governor Andrew Cuomo (D) is climbing.
Da-mn right... thank God that the likes of Cuomo and Dr. Fauci are there to maintain some semblance of sanity and good leadership during these stressful times, and thereby help maintain some balance to the otherwise highly incompetent, "do-nothing" except pass-the-blame WH twit and his useless team.
 

david starling

Well-known member
Da-mn right... thank God that the likes of Cuomo and Dr. Fauci are there to maintain some semblance of sanity and good leadership during these stressful times, and thereby help maintain some balance to the otherwise highly incompetent, "do-nothing" except pass-the-blame WH twit and his useless team.

Harry Truman's motto: "The buck stops here."

Donald Trump's motto: "Pass-the-blame."
 

blackbery

Well-known member
That is wonderful to hear David. I don't follow the pandemic much at all anymore but if the numbers are dropping in California, I'm really pleased to hear it. Hope the numbers keep dropping all over the country and around the world. :joyful:


Governor Newsom is apparently looking good regarding the pandemic.
 

david starling

Well-known member
That is wonderful to hear David. I don't follow the pandemic much at all anymore but if the numbers are dropping in California, I'm really pleased to hear it. Hope the numbers keep dropping all over the country and around the world. :joyful:

Trump is now saying it's going to get worse before it gets better. Hoping he's wrong about it.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Also, California, despite its large population, is a large State with a lot of rural areas, and even L.A. has its somewhat isolated canyon communities and its suburbs.
 

waybread

Well-known member
waybread brought it up in page 2 when she mentioned covid19 as a factor in the election in her anti-Trump rant.

And you didn't shut her down then - so its part of the discussion now.

Since when would David have the ability to "shut me down"?

Big :lol: there, Dirius.

For sure, CV-19 and how elected leaders handled it will be major factors in the upcoming general election.

For anyone interested in the Electoral College, keep your eyes on what happens in the state houses and federal House of Representatives.
 

waybread

Well-known member
The thread completely off-track now with all the fighting about Covid-19. wtf, how did that happen?:unsure:

The virus came from Wuhan. Ccommunist China did not react quickly or tell the rest of the world that a very contagious, respiratory virus had erupted. They allowed international travel & the spreading of the disease began. By Jan, 2020, the world was finally aware of what was coming with the China virus but nobody predicted how contagious it is & it spread like wildfire.

Italy, which has a very larger older population had thousands of elderly deaths for they weren't prepared or even knew what was happening until it was too late. World Health Organization did not warn the world and chose to support China and their lies.
Europe has been hit very hard, U.K. has the highest death rate there. Much higher that the U.S. per million. France, Italy, Belgium higher too. Many of these nations dead were elderly and sick and probably would have died but nobody talking about the natural death rate throughout the world. No country was prepared for this plague but each country have adapted with the resources and the health system that they have. U.S. has done the most testing and so they have a high number of recorded infections. Other countries have higher rates of infection but no testing. Everyone might get it at some point, herd immunity will kick in and we will carry on like we do after a bad flu season.

Dr. Fauci is not a god and doesn't have all the answers but he's on the Left and gets the support of the Media and the Democrats. They have classified him as the 'good guy' and Trump as the 'bad guy'.
Fauci is a part of the Task Force but they have held him up to be in charge of the pandemic but he's not. He's a paid medical consultant who is very often clueless like the rest of us about the course that the pandemic is taking. He & nobody else recommended wearing masks. Not until recently.


In the March 2020 60 Minutes clip, Fauci said: “Right now in the United States people should not be walking around with masks … You should think of healthcare providers who are needing them and the people who are ill.”


He was wrong
of course and in April, 2020 the CDC gave the following press release.

April 2020, the CDC recommended that everyone wear cloth masks in public to help slow the spread of COVID-19. That recommendation changed because of studies that found even people without coronavirus symptoms, but who may still have the disease, could transmit the virus through close interactions with others, especially through speaking, coughing, and sneezing:


For many living in urban cities and fixed incomes with no jobs, buying a mask is impossible. How effective are scarfs and bandanas?

Bottom line, no medical personnel should be exalted as having all the answers and no data can be fully understood in this early stage. However, the statisticians have consensus that the death rate is extremely low but higher in aged homes, high density, urban areas and with certain minorities. & people with underlying illnesses.

Nobody is "exalting" Dr. Fauci, for Pete's sake. Some of us happen to think that a senior medical research scientist has got a better handle on CV-19 than a real estate developer and former reality TV star who doesn't read very much.

Dr. Fauci has consistently been more correct on CV-19 than Donald Trump has.

Once more, Bleckbery, let's remember that when CV-19 first hit our shores, nobody knew very much about it. It was a new virius. It took the medical scientists a while to work it out. In the meantime there was a dire shortage of masks and PPE, so the thought was to give them to front-line medical personnel as a high priority.

It is an open question whether "herd immunity" will actually happen, for the simple reason that ex-patients' antibodies don't seem to stay in their systems for very long.

CV-19 will be a major issue in the upcoming general election. So watch how major swing states with big Electoral College votes have been handling it.

Where are you getting your news from, Blackbery? I'd like to follow up on it. Your posts seem to follow Fox News, so correct me if I'm mistaken.
 

waybread

Well-known member
I don't understand why you are so gleeful that florida death rate has increased in the past few days. Do you want them to catch up to NJ and NY which have the highest death rates in the country? Here's a graph of the death rates and Florida listed at above 15.
What is the celebrating of deaths due to Covid-19 about?:sick:

Do you really want more people to die so you can try to beat Trump in Nov?
He's going to win regardless and I'm troubled by the Left Democrats salivating at the thought of more deaths. I don't even recognize the DNC anymore, they are the death cult now.:sad::sad::sad:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/

I am hardly gleeful, blackbery. The rising death toll is clearly a major tragedy for millions of Americans who have gotten really sick and lost loved ones. Rather, you and Dirius seem to be the ones who don't get the severity of the pandemic crisis.

You are succumbing to the same short-term thinking that Dirius has. You need to look at the data trajectory for states with the fasted growing rates of new cases. Because CV-19 isn't over yet. Right now the states with the highest rate of increase during the past week were Arizona (23%,) Mississippi (22%,) and Florida and Alabama at 19%

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/here-are-the-states-where-covid-19-is-increasing

I might point out that Mississippi is the poorest state in the US, with Alabama ranked #5. So you can project that these states will have higher death rates as the disease progresses.

Please do not fabricate such malicious beliefs about me or the Democratic party (to which I do not belong, incidentally.)

For shame.

There are multiple reasons why Donald Trump is manifestly unfit for office. More deaths will merely extend and deepen the national tragedy that Trump has repeatedly shown himself unable to handle.
 

david starling

Well-known member
Since when would David have the ability to "shut me down"?

Big :lol: there, Dirius.

For sure, CV-19 and how elected leaders handled it will be major factors in the upcoming general election.

For anyone interested in the Electoral College, keep your eyes on what happens in the state houses and federal House of Representatives.

Waybread, it surprised me that there's a rule that, if someone posts something legitimately peripheral to the thread topic (apparently thst was you in this case), and the OP (me in this case, which is what Dirius was referring to) doesn't report it, then someone else (Dirius, in this case) is free to make it the central topic, in place of the topic as named in the thread title.

It's funny that you said "for anyone interested in the Electoral College", because that was originally intended to be the major topic of discussion!
I'm not complaining, I'm just surprised by the "permission to hijack a thread unless the OP doesn't immediately take steps to prevent it" rule.

The Supreme Court came out very recently with a landmark decision that a State Elector has to vote for the winner of the State's Popular-vote, even if that State's law was permitting them to jump ship in previous elections.
 
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waybread

Well-known member
I'm happy you finally admit that BLM,Antifa and the thugs and domestic terrorists are part of the Democrat Party.

By definition, they are not part of the Democratic party. :rightful:

Antifacists, thugs, and domestic terrorists, whatever their explicity ideology, are radical extremists far to the left of the Democratic party platform.

Which you can read about here, if you dare to look at the truth:

https://democrats.org/where-we-stand/party-platform/

These are revised every four years at their national convention.
 

waybread

Well-known member
This link came from another thread and if you watch it, you can see for yourself how Dr.Fauci supports the Left Democrats. He won't admit that protesters should be banned from gathering in large crowds but has said that nobody can go to places of faith, work or school because they will spread the disease.

He is clearly biased against Trump and should be removed.


https://youtu.be/66Jhq-zGV88

For Pete's sake, Blackbery. Dr. Fauci doesn't make the rules. These are made at the state and local levels, normally by governors.

As a MD, he has promised to save lives. I trust you have heard of the Hippocratic Oath.

Fauci doesn't answer to Democrats. It's the other way around, where educated liberals actually believe in the science behind Dr. Fauci's recommendations.

Whatever else might be his strengths and weaknesses, Donald Trump has no expertise in epidemiology. And apparently does not care to acquire any.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
For Pete's sake, Blackbery. Dr. Fauci doesn't make the rules. These are made at the state and local levels, normally by governors.

As a MD, he has promised to save lives. I trust you have heard to the Hippocratic Oath.

Fauci doesn't answer to Democrats. It's the other way around, where educated liberals actually believe in the science behind Dr. Fauci's recommendations.

Whatever else might be his strengths and weaknesses, Donald Trump has no expertise in epidemiology. And apparently does not care to acquire any.

Trump has been free to fire Fauci from the beginning, and still can.
 
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