Will I be in a relationship with him?

Hey y’all. I was wondering if you could help me interpret the chart and save someone some advil and headache in the future.


Querent is Jupiter, quesited is Mercury.
Jupiter retro and in the 8th- changing mind/unsure and anxious about the whole thing.

Positives:
Sun, Mercury, and Venus are in the 1st house
Moon will come to conjunct Jupiter

Negatives:
Moon opposition Venus
There doesn’t seem to be an aspect
South node in 1st

Will Mercury soon aspecting Venus retro mean Mercury's gonna go back to a previous lover? Mercury broke up with someone months ago. I mean the Moon comes to oppose Venus too. Also, Mercury is about to switch signs, getting to a better condition, but at the same time that would mean Mercury would switch to a sign that Jupiter is not particularly interested in, meaning Jupiter won’t be so interested in Mercury anymore.

I was wondering if those first house planets signify sex, and not a relationship. I’ve read a post here before stating that a planet in the 1st signifies getting the outcome you want in relation to the matter. But aspects are very important and all...I’d have to say the answer is no.

he is going back to the ex then break up with her again

I mean, my question is why you would want to? Mercury is escaping combustion, but still combust and in detriment. Jupiter retrograde...you've been down this road before? Moon separates from Mercury and applies to Venus, but Venus retrograde and debilitated has also been down this road before, will return the disposition to the Moon. Chase the Moon to see what happens, but Jupiter is up there going nowhere.

Yay, our teacher has arrived!

tsmall said:

I mean, my question is why you would want to? Mercury is escaping combustion, but still combust and in detriment.

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I saw that. Debilitated planets, and their conditions indicate their character and also their ability to act - so being in one with him won’t be so promising for me anyways since he’s in a poor condition.
But Jupiter loves Pisces!

tsmall said:

Jupiter retrograde...you've been down this road before?

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Yep. In the 8th too: anxious.

tsmall said:

Moon separates from Mercury and applies to Venus, but Venus retrograde and debilitated has also been down this road before, will return the disposition to the Moon. Chase the Moon to see what happens, but Jupiter is up there going nowhere.

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Can you explain to me what ‘returning the disposition’ means, please?

I had to search it up, and came up with methods talking about Mâshâ’allâh’s horary methods on the perfection of the matter.

*Since Jupiter seems to be doing nothing, we look to the Moon then. Is that what you mean by looking to the Moon to see what happens?
^Moon is in sect and angular

*The Moon does join with planets in the ASC, and planets in the ASC have a share of the outcome of the matter.

*If a planet is in a house of the question transfers its disposition to a planet in the ASC, and the lord of 1st isn’t harmed, then there is perfection.
^Here we have a “series” of the transfer of dispositions, from Venus-Moon then to Jupiter (me).
^Application from a relevant house to a fortune
^The final aspect being Moon-Saturn, with Saturn receiving the Moon.


I mean, Venus indicates his return to a lover, so I don’t even know if I’m applying these methods correctly.

I was curious about that term, so I did a search on AW hoping someone explained it (and look who did ) and found it! I’m just trying to analyze this chart in depth out of curiosity now( since it seems drama-filled ) and learning a few things along the way.

tsmall said:

In every question, and in every planetary interaction, planets apply to and separate from one another. This tells us about the interactions between them. A planet applying to another planet is "pushing" something to that planet; either nature, power, or management, and the condition of the "pushing/applying" planet will tell us which of those three it is. Usually planets can only apply to planets that are heavier than they are; in this case, Moon applies to Saturn (usually) and not the other way around. That is why we say that the faster/applying planet will be the one to initiate the action. And this application can be called handing off the disposition, or outcome, of the question.

There are two circumstances in which the planet being applied to is in no condition to accept the disposition; that is when the heavier planet is either retrograde, or combust. Each of those has different meanings, but the net result is the same as if I went to someone and asked for something, and they said sorry, I can't help you right now. I know there must be a better analogy but I can't think of one at the moment. But this is called "returning the disposition." Basically telling the Moon, "it's back up to you." Moon then applies to a square with Mercury, so Moon is trying to hand the matter over to Mercury. In this particular square, Mercury does not receive the Moon, but because Mercury is in Moon's exaltation Moon has the ability to push/send "management."

When a planet is retrograde, then even if it is "heavier" (think Chaldean order) it's backwards motion means that in a way it too is applying. This mutual application with a retrograde planet can be seen as what the ancients called "returning" but is probably better defined as something you are chasing turning around and chasing you back. BZ once defined it as a "collision" and I have yet to come up with a better way to explain it. The returning from a retrograde planet forces or compels you to do something, whether you like it or not.

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I’m having a little trouble with the analogies...

So Venus (retro) pushing the rays of the Moon back means she’s rejecting what I’m offering, and the Moon’s next aspect means sending the disposition back to me... Is this the right track?

In the last paragraph, it just confuses me even more. So Venus pushing the disposition back to the Moon, in this case, is basically handing the torch back to the Moon? But what will chase me back if Venus is rejecting my offers?

Even more curious is that Saturn has recently left a square with Mercury, yet the Moon will come and sextile it (with reception). So, Moon passes it on to Jupiter (who is unable to act), then passes it on to Saturn. Saturn is something I’ll have to ponder on a bit more since it’s even more confusing (I’d rather not take the meaning of Saturn as his 'work friends’ because that would be too obvious and simple).

I am amused at these Lilly descriptions because of their accuracy...

Mercury being in Pisces
Gives a short, squab, dumpy figure, though if in his own term or that of Saturn’s, rather thin, pale face, brown hair, sickly look, and very hairy body. A very peevish, repining, foppish person addicted to wine and women; very effeminate and contemptible.

Jupiter in Libra
Renders the body complete and elegant, a handsome form, and inviting face; upright, tall stature, rather slender; clear complexion, a full eye, oval face, light brown hair, subject to have pimples or a rash in the face. Disposition and temper, mild; behaviour winning and obliging to all, partial to exercise and recreation; much esteemed and honoured.

Let me try to clarify the chart a bit more.

I take the combustion as him being overwhelmed by something, most likely 6th house stuff (health and disease issues maybe? Why is the Sun in my house though? ). The debility is an indicative of his character, as seen in the description above, and in a water sign - mute and cannot express himself. Combust planets also have to operate below the scenes. Maybe he knows more than he’s letting on. I hope it’s not an indicator of a liar. He was leaving a square with Saturn, so maybe he also has more difficulties expressing himself.

As to him getting back together with his ex, Mercury is traveling twice its average speed, meaning that he’s REALLY keen to enter that relationship with him and he will be the one to approach Venus. Since he’s still combust, he’s not seeing things properly, and is jumping into it. Venus might have had a good opinion of him because of exaltation sign, but when Merc travels to Aries, Venus will suddenly get a dose of reality of why they split up to begin with. Receptions from Venus to him are ****. Venus also happens to rule the 3rd house, and the malefic 8th house, so maybe this person is around the city and is bad news for him.

He says his ex is on the other side of the country, and he doesn’t talk to his other exes, but that could be a lie. It could also just mean he’s getting back together with someone from the past.

As for me, I am Jupiter in Libra, retrograde, via combusta, 8th house. Libra Moon also represents me too. Whatever, I’m vain and flattered the horary said I was pretty. Sun in the 1st house probably means the matter will come about quickly, which is supported by the fact that everything are in the angles and cardinal signs. Him being in my house means he’s really into me. He has a lot of patience for me, so I think that’s believable. I also wonder what Venus is doing in my house.

_______________

Mercury aspects Venus in 9 units - 9 days. Wednesday/Tuesday this week. Moon opposes Venus in 8 units. Does the moon opposition indicate the breakup? Or does Venus traveling to Pisces indicate it? If so then it will last for 9/8 days too.

Of course, I still don’t know the answer to this question. I said no initially. After coming across that Mashaallah method, I was hoping for some correction, and him getting with an ex and breaking up doesn’t necessarily deny me a yes answer. Someone shed some clarity, please? T-Small? Tik?

I'm not ignoring you. I have some irons in the fire. I'll get back to you asap?

Bun, babe, take a deep breath. You just did a lot of homework about the Masha'Allah hot potato method of transfering the disposition of the question, and learned a ton about aspect theory in the process. Good for you.

Now, take what you learned, and breathe, and then look at your chart. With clear, objective eyes. You cast the chart. Tell me the story it tells you.

Hey, I am breathing! I’m just...excitable that’s all.

Aaahhh, trying to paint a picture with the aspects is so complicated. I’m not trying to wish for an answer or bend/distort reality, but to see if the methods are right or are going down the right track. These added terms are added variables for me that are so new and foreign, and the analogies are tripping me up.

Masha’allah ‘hot potato’ method is a fun way to put it. It’s very new to me, so forgive me if I make mistakes. The Moon’s aspects and what they mean in reality is what I’m really trying to understand here, since it’s a little more abstract than reading the house placements.

I will need some time to really think deeply and ponder about this. I will come back to you once I’ve devised a coherent thought that I synthesized.

Yes. Follow the Moon, because that is what will tell you how the story will unfold. There are only two astrologers currently posting here who actually know how to do that. But remember, a chart in the hands of a good astrologer doesn't only answer the "yes/no" of the question.

Not meaning to off-track here, but looking at the chart one might consider that SN on the ascendant is saying: You're better off without him.

hmm...
Planets return if they are combust or retrograde

See the Moon’s past aspect to Mercury meant that I tried to push the relationship to him, but he couldn’t accept it because he was burdened by the rays of the Sun, so the “ray/matter” was sent back to the Moon (me).

Returning is here has “profit" because Mercury received the one that’s pushing, was angular, it helped ameliorated the matter.

Ok that’s the past aspect.

Here’s the one when it was in Libra...
Moon opposition Venus - Venus tried to push its management to a retrograde Venus, but Venus rejects it because it’s retrograde, so it returns the matter to Moon again. Same concept - the Moon is being received and angular and has some dignity. I’m trying to pass it to my co-ruler, Venus, yet Venus cannot accept it so the matter is back to me now.

I’m trying to figure out if this means that his ex will get in the way of Moon doing her thing, thus sending the matter back to me. Venus rejected my attempts of being in a relationship with him?
It goes like this: Merc just sent it back to Moon. Moon then aspects Venus -- I DEFINITELY am not trying to push the matters of the relationship to his ex -- but then it gets sent back to me. So while it gets sent back to the Moon, then it literally gets sent to Jupiter (me). Meaning I’ll try to go about this myself?

There is this concept called “returning of profit” or “returning with fitness" which I’m not totally sure about what it entails. Wont this mean, I’ll get to a point with him to fulfill the matters of the question to an extent? Since Moon tried to apply to Mercury and Venus (Moon being received in both situations and all are angular), then they fit the category of a “useful” return. There is some commitment to advance the matter on my part. The Moon is NOT burdened by anything, so she has the power to play her part.

The Moon tries to push the management to me (Jupiter) OR does not that count because technically a conjunction is not an aspect? That one is a little more abstract. If Moon tries to push the management to me, but then Jupiter cannot seem to do anything, then does this mean that the question leads to no where?

Moon then aspects Saturn - Moon tries to push management to Saturn and also pushes its nature along with it. Saturn is willing to do what I want here. Well uhh Moon and Saturn sure are friendly, and intermingle with each other. So in the end when Moon aspects Saturn, I’ll try to push what my plan is on Saturn, yes?

Ok so sure Moon gets with Saturn at the end of Libra. So what? Jupiter can’t seem to do anything and Saturn seems like a foreign concept to me


But anyways...
I don’t see a returning with corruption, so the matter isn’t destroyed So try again in 6 months?

Oddity said:

Not meaning to off-track here, but looking at the chart one might consider that SN on the ascendant is saying: You're better off without him.

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But why?

In general, the south node can downright poison things, but that's not always the read, especially in horary.

It indicates things that won't come to pass, or things that shrink away.

Given what that chart looks like, it just seemed to me that it might be saying that the relationship is going away, but - getting it off of you (the ascendant) might not be such a bad thing.

That's not always how I'd read SN on the ascendant, just that chart is so twisty and disappointing, that it's quite possibly for the best that this relationship doesn't happen.

I know it never feels that way.

That ‘getting it off me ‘ is a really wild and strange concept to me. The South node is getting this off of me--so the south node isn’t a literal thing I can assign to, but just a descriptor of events then. I wonder what force it is.
Can I ask you a question: Would you happen to know what Moon’s aspect to Me here entails? I’m very much stuck on that.


If you were curious about what happened to the person in the skating rink that I asked you about - he had a disease.

I got some juicy updates y’all

Oddity was correct:

Oddity said:

Not meaning to off-track here, but looking at the chart one might consider that SN on the ascendant is saying: You're better off without him.

...

Given what that chart looks like, it just seemed to me that it might be saying that the relationship is going away, but - getting it off of you (the ascendant) might not be such a bad thing.

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I was the one to end it.

I understand what the aspects meant now. Jupiter went about to completing this mission by itself. Then sextiles Saturn, which we will not talk about.