Pallas-trine-Mars
Well-known member
Sounds more like Chiron to me and the sobriety as well.
That sounds a bit like Saturn, Jupiter or the Sun.
Maybe, but this sounds more like it'd be a Virgo thing, the health stuff I mean.
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Is Neptune a Malefic?
- Thread starter The_Sundance_Kid
- Start date
Aruilly
Well-known member
Yes, it does sound like Chiron, but in my head Chiron rules those wounds that don't quite ever heal. Also, they are inflicted wounds, while in this case drug or alcohol abuse is a free choice, so not a wound, its an addiction. Addictions are ruled by the 12th house. Plus, as said ppl with strong Neptune can also reject this things, so no wound there. The 12th house is also associated with Hospitals, asylums and institutions where you go to hide yourself from the world. Also, in this case, I don't mean the body's health like in a Virgo related way, and hey the 6th house is opposite the 12th. It's rest as in a place for the soul to rest and be at ease. Most probably in silence.
I think the Lord of Karma and Time is quite certain about things. With Saturn you see limitations, you know they are there. There is an instance when Saturn can't be seen and that's when it takes this neptune flavor by operating in it's joy, the 12th house. Saturn does take you somewhere, you reap what you saw with this planet. I know a person with strong Saturn in the 12th, who put this planet to good use and got his share in the end. Saturn is a stern teacher, you will get something if you work hard, but you really have to work hard. I tend to see Saturn in a good light mostly, it's probably my sun trine saturn thing.
Jupiter is expansion. So getting no where? Sure, only if you're falling to laziness which with Jupiter can occur. Again, expansion, so I don't think it would gracefully give up the fight.
The Sun is ego. Giving up? Nope. So I guess in the end all those planet's can be represented here, but most probably in related to the 12th house.
For Neptune, I could use the metaphor as something like swimming (water, very neptunean) in the midst of fog (neptune word too) so you're absolutely getting nowhere, really, nowhere. If this is a bad Neptune, you're probably swimming in circles too just to make things worse. So either you stop swimming and drown or you, stop, look around (oh yeah loads of fog) and then you feel it, you can't see, so you have to feel it. You feel the right direction and you swim, but then you stop a lil and float and just let the water take you, then you swim some more and stop and repeat the process all over again. Since we are talking about Neptune and it's subliminal ways, this will take you somewhere. But it's not where you want to go. Ouch, for the ego.
Anyway, that's just my very Neptunean vision of Neptune
LOLI totally agree, I have neptune in my 10th opposing moon in 4th. I have lived my life in total confusion, never knowing what I wanted to do for a career or even in which direction my life would go in. I still dont know what to do. Im sort of interested in social injustice and helping the needy, especially the homeless or abused animals, but on the other hand I feel the world's pain too deeply and tend to take it on board so to speak. The result is, that I walk around like a wounded soldier all the time searching for escape and a fantasy world where everything is perfect to retreat into.........hence my confusion in life of who and what I want to be
GreenMist
Banned
I think some of the posters here have mistaken Neptune for Uranus.
Uranus aspects is what bring issues such as confusion, mental illness and other bad afflictions that keeps humans living lives of lowliness and depravity.
It is the sign of the sex offender, criminal, incest and all other sick unimaginable crimes.
The illusionary and dreamy aspect of Neptune doesn't compare to the misery brought about by Uranus.
Neptune once the individual can shake themselves free from the chaos orientated Ur--ANUS, can achieve genuine peace, happiness, truth and beauty in their lives. Neptune promotes living simply and in harmony with nature. Uranus is restless and is never happy, so in a happy state in life Uranus is sure to be the one to change all that.
Uranus aspects is what bring issues such as confusion, mental illness and other bad afflictions that keeps humans living lives of lowliness and depravity.
It is the sign of the sex offender, criminal, incest and all other sick unimaginable crimes.
The illusionary and dreamy aspect of Neptune doesn't compare to the misery brought about by Uranus.
Neptune once the individual can shake themselves free from the chaos orientated Ur--ANUS, can achieve genuine peace, happiness, truth and beauty in their lives. Neptune promotes living simply and in harmony with nature. Uranus is restless and is never happy, so in a happy state in life Uranus is sure to be the one to change all that.
Attention to people reading here who are just learning astrology:
GreenMist's post above is completely incorrect. It's written by a person with an obvious bias against Uranus for some reason.
Uranus is the Great Enlightener. Sure it can shake things up but it's usually for the better.
Uranus, like Pluto, and Saturn, by transit gets rid of dead wood. If you're a control freak, you won't like these transits.
Neptune is confusion. It's idealism which then leads to disillusionment, disappointment and depression.
Most astrologers if you ask them about Neptune transits, will tell you that there's nothing positive about them.
GreenMist's post above is completely incorrect. It's written by a person with an obvious bias against Uranus for some reason.
Uranus is the Great Enlightener. Sure it can shake things up but it's usually for the better.
Uranus, like Pluto, and Saturn, by transit gets rid of dead wood. If you're a control freak, you won't like these transits.
Neptune is confusion. It's idealism which then leads to disillusionment, disappointment and depression.
Most astrologers if you ask them about Neptune transits, will tell you that there's nothing positive about them.
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Inside Out Orange
Well-known member
They're definitely a bit disabling in the goal-oriented world. Perhaps we just don't see their benefit because of that context? (says the Leo Sun/Moon/Venus having big struggles with Neptune/Jupiter!).
I've written a lot of my recent experiences on here previously, and I guess the two positives that stick out are that:
1) I seem to have been better at materializing my dreams this year. Though none of them have paid any longterm dividends yet!
2) I seem to feel easiyl defeated, even worthless, and am not willing to argue directly. But this in itself has spurred me to persevere and take more roundabout routes to try and achieve things where in the past I would have given up.
Inside Out Orange
Well-known member
Come on ... let's go way off-topic ... how does that then bring up your comments about sex offenders and incest?
Your interpretation of Uranus is very different from the one provided by most traditional astrologers. What facts do you base your interpretation on?
GreenMist
Banned
Incest? well the story of Uranus the mythical god is of having an incestous affair with his mother spawning life. Uranus as he was castrated in battle by Saturn is a pretty pitiful and degenerate symbol whose energy and vibe s associated with and the motivator of in my opinion of the many sicknesses of mankind and the imprefections that comes with life itself.
Mmmm very interesting read
Sounds like Neptune brings out different things for different ppl.
Having Neptune
* in the 9th conjunct MC (MC capri) - (love the spiritual stuff and have had a few psychic moments in life)
*Square Sun - (struggled with confidence, esteem, discipline, running away from confrontations)
*Square Moon - (illusions, fictions, sensitivity, possible warping of emotions *yay*)
*Trine Venus
*Sun, Moon, Mercury in pieces - 12th house - heavy water chart with Neptune being a focus
Neptune plays a big part in my chart to put it in a condensed form
*Given me answers to questions i did not know (intuition and such)
*Lots of challanges in respect to the Square sun and moon
tl;dr
Basically, front wat ive learnt, with hard aspects (challanges) yields the highest return in my opinion, and its upto the individual to find the lesson. If u can find the lesson then u will have learnt something. Or u can dwell on the misfortunes and be incontent.
Having learnt from the challanges of my Neptune, I LOVE MY NEPTUNE and i know in 20 - 25 years time ill be doing more with spiritiality. (At the moment iam doing stuff with Naturopathy and attempting to study Psychology)
*perception and how we think as individuals are interesting isnt it
Sounds like Neptune brings out different things for different ppl.
Having Neptune
* in the 9th conjunct MC (MC capri) - (love the spiritual stuff and have had a few psychic moments in life)
*Square Sun - (struggled with confidence, esteem, discipline, running away from confrontations)
*Square Moon - (illusions, fictions, sensitivity, possible warping of emotions *yay*)
*Trine Venus
*Sun, Moon, Mercury in pieces - 12th house - heavy water chart with Neptune being a focus
Neptune plays a big part in my chart to put it in a condensed form
*Given me answers to questions i did not know (intuition and such)
*Lots of challanges in respect to the Square sun and moon
tl;dr
Basically, front wat ive learnt, with hard aspects (challanges) yields the highest return in my opinion, and its upto the individual to find the lesson. If u can find the lesson then u will have learnt something
. Or u can dwell on the misfortunes and be incontent.Having learnt from the challanges of my Neptune, I LOVE MY NEPTUNE and i know in 20 - 25 years time ill be doing more with spiritiality. (At the moment iam doing stuff with Naturopathy and attempting to study Psychology)
*perception and how we think as individuals are interesting isnt it
Inside Out Orange
Well-known member
There's a good discussion on Neptune transits over here ... http://www.cafeastrology.com/neptunetransits.html
In terms of whether Neptune is a malefic or not, I think this part is relevant:
It is common for Neptune's influence to be a confusing one in the first portion of the transit. The ultimate "lesson" of Neptune is to help connect us to the world of the intangible. This is in stark contrast to Saturn's transits, which re-connect us to the tangible, material world.
In terms of whether Neptune is a malefic or not, I think this part is relevant:
It is common for Neptune's influence to be a confusing one in the first portion of the transit. The ultimate "lesson" of Neptune is to help connect us to the world of the intangible. This is in stark contrast to Saturn's transits, which re-connect us to the tangible, material world.
Modcleopatra
Banned
Hello All,
Excellent topic at hand!
I don't think Neptune should be considered all good or all bad, fact, fiction, and folly aside. None of the planets, even Jupiter, can be considered all good or all bad. They are modifiers, changing pitch and color of each soul's experience. Our souls seek harmony with self-awareness, purpose, and experience. The planets indicate the materials and path.
Jupiter, the supposed benefic, is in a neutral sense, simply expansive. Usually this has positive impact. But what if Jupiter is involved in amplifying a conjunction or square? It can't be all good or all bad.
Neither can Saturn, who creates limits, but enhances our sense of purpose by giving us the road by which we travel on. Have Jupiter bummeling around without any limits is how we spoil our souls and miss the beauty in experience, trials and tribulations, and discipline.
Again, it seems silly to just say, "ok, this one is good and this one is bad." Does anything really ever end up being so black and white? (Not to mention that after the age of one, it is psychologically unhealthy to operate in those terms).
So then where does that leave us with Neptune. I wouldn't then say go ahead and embrace Neptune, but you can't beat up on the planet either. It does beautify things, and when grounded in an earth sign (like my lucky generation), it can be pretty useful (though, of course, I won't go as far as to say practical), especially because this generation's Capricorn Neptune is linked to Saturn.
Personally, I have Neptune angular. It is conjunct my asc in the 12th house. I also have Pluto angular, conjunct my MC in the 10th house. I feel pretty strongly about these placements (as if they would let me do anything else!), and I don't chalk it all up to my Pluto placement that I haven't gone the Neptune route of drugs, alcohol, and general escapism. Neptune doesn't make any negative aspects in my chart, granted a small inconjunction to Mercury which is obliterated by a tight trine from Saturn to Mercury, but this post isn't about me, I just wanted to make a point.
I don't think we should glorify Neptune either. There are a lot of talks about Neptune's involvement in psychic/spiritual qualities. Yes Neptune dissolves boundaries, allowing more information to come in. That doesn't make the person more powerful or more aware. Neptune's influence is blurring and muddying.
But then again, without mixing red and blue, we would never get purple. Neptune dissolves boundaries in a powerful and unique way, and allows us to get a unique picture that only Neptune can provide. Some call this art, some call this spirituality, some find this path through self-sacrifice. In any case, Neptune has the unique capability of stretching us beyond our normal, expected, accepted capacities. This means it cannot be a malefic.
Neptune is what it is, both the good and the bad. It literally is the gray in our lives and in our experience, so let's keep it that way.
mod.
Excellent topic at hand!
I don't think Neptune should be considered all good or all bad, fact, fiction, and folly aside. None of the planets, even Jupiter, can be considered all good or all bad. They are modifiers, changing pitch and color of each soul's experience. Our souls seek harmony with self-awareness, purpose, and experience. The planets indicate the materials and path.
Jupiter, the supposed benefic, is in a neutral sense, simply expansive. Usually this has positive impact. But what if Jupiter is involved in amplifying a conjunction or square? It can't be all good or all bad.
Neither can Saturn, who creates limits, but enhances our sense of purpose by giving us the road by which we travel on. Have Jupiter bummeling around without any limits is how we spoil our souls and miss the beauty in experience, trials and tribulations, and discipline.
Again, it seems silly to just say, "ok, this one is good and this one is bad." Does anything really ever end up being so black and white? (Not to mention that after the age of one, it is psychologically unhealthy to operate in those terms).
So then where does that leave us with Neptune. I wouldn't then say go ahead and embrace Neptune, but you can't beat up on the planet either. It does beautify things, and when grounded in an earth sign (like my lucky generation), it can be pretty useful (though, of course, I won't go as far as to say practical), especially because this generation's Capricorn Neptune is linked to Saturn.
Personally, I have Neptune angular. It is conjunct my asc in the 12th house. I also have Pluto angular, conjunct my MC in the 10th house. I feel pretty strongly about these placements (as if they would let me do anything else!), and I don't chalk it all up to my Pluto placement that I haven't gone the Neptune route of drugs, alcohol, and general escapism. Neptune doesn't make any negative aspects in my chart, granted a small inconjunction to Mercury which is obliterated by a tight trine from Saturn to Mercury, but this post isn't about me, I just wanted to make a point.
I don't think we should glorify Neptune either. There are a lot of talks about Neptune's involvement in psychic/spiritual qualities. Yes Neptune dissolves boundaries, allowing more information to come in. That doesn't make the person more powerful or more aware. Neptune's influence is blurring and muddying.
But then again, without mixing red and blue, we would never get purple. Neptune dissolves boundaries in a powerful and unique way, and allows us to get a unique picture that only Neptune can provide. Some call this art, some call this spirituality, some find this path through self-sacrifice. In any case, Neptune has the unique capability of stretching us beyond our normal, expected, accepted capacities. This means it cannot be a malefic.
Neptune is what it is, both the good and the bad. It literally is the gray in our lives and in our experience, so let's keep it that way.
mod.
Inside Out Orange
Well-known member
Good post Mod ... I think the journey of life is one of growth and each of the planets moves us along on that path ... when we resist it's likely because of the so-called malefics whereas an enjoyable experience is down to the benefics ...
It's difficult to separate the influences of Neptune and Chiron at the moment with them so close in the heavens, and of course last year they had assistance from Jupiter.
My emotional psyche has taken a battering over the past months from Chiron/Neptune opposition but it's given me a greater appreciation for the people who constantly battle with these placements natally. Beyond that it's forced me to look at different ways of approaching life. All good things on the journey but unpleasant roadblocks to be encoutering!
It's difficult to separate the influences of Neptune and Chiron at the moment with them so close in the heavens, and of course last year they had assistance from Jupiter.
My emotional psyche has taken a battering over the past months from Chiron/Neptune opposition but it's given me a greater appreciation for the people who constantly battle with these placements natally. Beyond that it's forced me to look at different ways of approaching life. All good things on the journey but unpleasant roadblocks to be encoutering!
Pallas-trine-Mars
Well-known member
-Restriction, obstruction, setbacks and interference, depression and pessimism, no assistance, challenging responsibilities that are usually long-term, conservative approach, ice, age
-Elucidating insight, freedom of individuality, erratic behavior, surprising circumstances (dangerous even), new scholastic understanding, radical, opinionated humanitarianism
-Trust minus analysis, refusing to accept negative details due to idealization, even losing touch with reality, use and dependence on downers and spirits, low energy, "psychic" events, charlatans, exploiters of naivete, irrationality, rationalization, denial, interest in art
-Power games involving emotional manipulation and cunning, smoldering with anger, tension and lust, scheming, yearning but calculating (obsessive), psychological analysis (to understand how one 'ticks.' When used to help it is Chiron)Some of these things are shared.
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Pallas-trine-Mars
Well-known member
Thanks, but I don't see a difference between the two, I think they mean the same thing. Now, imagination/fantasy and dissociation I think are different.
Inside Out Orange
Well-known member
My Mercury in Virgo suggests that fantasy is a subset of imagination. The subset being that it only relates to nice stuff and escapism. Where as imagination can be the whole spectrum from good things through to imagining the worst.
Claire19
Well-known member
I dont use the term malefic I think that is from the old world and it is rather limitiing in its expression. All the outer planets have huge influence on us as humanity and often the events are out of our control.
However my Neptune as my chart ruler is fine for me except for the Venus conjunct Neptune which gives disappointment in love and over idealisation.
It does give artistic sensitivities thoughh. I think the squares with Neptune and Sun and Moon for instance can be quite challenging. SOmetimes hard to recognise and get to grips with apart from the liikelihood of addictions.
Inside Out Orange
Well-known member
I have to say I'm finding the effects of Neptune deblitating. I find myself just sitting, waiting for life to happen to me. With the opposition transits to my sun and moon I'm finding that any sort of challenge to me is causing me to back away in fear. I read emails five times over at work before I send them for fear of being misunderstood and it creating issues.
I find myself just wanting to shut away from the world, read a book, or go to bed and sleep through to the next day. Then when I wake up I just want to get through that day. I look forward to the weekends when I have no responsibilities or need to interact with anyone. When I can just sit alone, waiting for something to happen that will make life better.
I guess that's what they mean when they say Neptune dissolves the ego. I've never felt like this before or so powerless. It's just not in the nature of my Leo stellium. Just can't wait for it all to end. The transits that is ...
I find myself just wanting to shut away from the world, read a book, or go to bed and sleep through to the next day. Then when I wake up I just want to get through that day. I look forward to the weekends when I have no responsibilities or need to interact with anyone. When I can just sit alone, waiting for something to happen that will make life better.
I guess that's what they mean when they say Neptune dissolves the ego. I've never felt like this before or so powerless. It's just not in the nature of my Leo stellium. Just can't wait for it all to end. The transits that is ...