US - a Uranian Country

Opal

Premium Member
Opal,

I couldn't help but chuckle when I read in your link that charts without Earth "...overspend and borrow money freely..." This is EXACTLY what the US has struggled with over the decades: WAY too much spending on government money to the point now where the President of the US casually tosses off 6 TRILLION dollar budgets as if there were NO consequences to overspending. Reality is setting in as US inflation starts to spiral up again, as it did in the 70s with the US' overspending.

Also this caught my eye: "They may hold onto a job or relationship too long..." which is exactly what has happened with the US citizens and their politicians, where voters hang onto unproductive politicians too long, hoping they will somehow become better even though they have been proved a disaster. More and more voters are becoming aware of the problem of over-idealized politicians who provide no value in doing the job of the US government: securing people's individual rights (per the Declaration of Independence: "That to secure these [individual] rights, Governments are instituted among Men..."

Seeing the Void,

Tim

Happy to have got a chuckle out of you🙂
 

waybread

Well-known member
Thanks, Opal.

The US did have a residential school system for Native American children, as well. Here is a brief summary of them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_boarding_schools

One thing I might point out is that Canada has an official indigenous nation category of Métis, or people with French and First Nations backgrounds (primarily.) So far as I know, the Métis of the United States have no officially recognized status.

Both countries have a wretched record of dealings with indigenous people. One hopes for some improvement with the appointment of Deb Haaland as Secretary of the Interior, which includes the BIA.

Tim-- surely the land base has been a huge issue in the Revolutionary War and subsequently, notably in the Treaty of Paris and land cession treaties with Native Americans.

A 4th house matter??
 

Opal

Premium Member
Mars in the 2nd, stock exchange panics, losses, banking losses. Saturn transit has just passed here. Pluto transit is headed there. This natal conjunction of Pluto and Mars in the second house of the government finances would be a volatile one, and with the present transit of Saturn we witnessed stock exchange turbulence.
 

Opal

Premium Member
Thanks, Opal.

The US did have a residential school system for Native American children, as well. Here is a brief summary of them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_boarding_schools

One thing I might point out is that Canada has an official indigenous nation category of Métis, or people with French and First Nations backgrounds (primarily.) So far as I know, the Métis of the United States have no officially recognized status.

Both countries have a wretched record of dealings with indigenous people. One hopes for some improvement with the appointment of Deb Haaland as Secretary of the Interior, which includes the BIA.

Tim-- surely the land base has been a huge issue in the Revolutionary War and subsequently, notably in the Treaty of Paris and land cession treaties with Native Americans.

A 4th house matter??

Yes. The reserves, are being handled better now, they have been taking back their power, by starting businesses and ventures on their land. Some of them are doing very well, and they are sharing their knowledge and expertise with other peoples. It is a time of change.🙂
 

wilsontc

Staff member
All,

Now looking at the big picture of the chart. It's interesting that most of the planets are in the "Maturity" part of the chart, where the native uses their lessons from the outer world to develop themselves personally. This, again, goes along with the theory of the US being a continually improving country. That mistakes have been made in the past and the US continues to work to use awareness of those mistakes to develop itself.

The strong focus on the Self side of the chart also indicates a country of great self-importance and self-identity: this indicates a country which focuses on itself and its own needs first before that of the world in general. Naturally this intense self-focus can arouse anger and even envy in other countries. Helping this strong sense of Self is Sun conjunct South node (the past) in the House of Duty at the very top of the chart. This is a country that naturally attracts attention in the outer world and is connected to strong sense of expressing itself in doing its duty to the world. However, the North node (future goals) in the House of the home in Aries indicates the ultimate goal is to come back home and take care of itself. The challenge of the Sun conjunct the South node in the House of Duty is there is a sense of being held back, of WANTING to be "at home" but feeling the CONSTANT pull of the outer world and doing one's duty to get noticed.

Pluto in the House of Money suggests a continual need for using other people's money as the US's own money, suggesting continually higher level of taxation. Pluto is in Aquarius so this money is tied into the goal of Social Security, underlining the strong focus in the House of Social Security.

Still Looking,

Tim

P.S. As suggested, I see the time of the Pluto return as being VERY important in understanding what's going on with Covid in the US: Covid turned into an issue of control and power as Pluto approached its return and now that Pluto has started its return this issue of control and power is being even more strongly increased. Wherever you come down politically, it can easily be seen that government (Pluto) at all levels have used Covid as a way to grant powers that go far beyond US Constitutional and even State mandates for governmental power. What happens to these powers as the Covid emergency wanes is what will drive the death and rebirth of the US and what the reborn US will look like after the Pluto return is over.
 

david starling

Well-known member
Tim, how to interpret the extremely tight Moon/Jupiter conjunction in 29+ degrees Scorpio in H11?

Especially considering Pluto as ruler of Scorpio.
 

CapAquaPis

Well-known member
Tim, how to interpret the extremely tight Moon/Jupiter conjunction in 29+ degrees Scorpio in H11?

Especially considering Pluto as ruler of Scorpio.

So...the US' Lunar placement gives us an Ophiuchus (parazodiac)-galactic center (29' Scorpio cusp 1' Sagittarius) -proven Sagittarius (astrologers said the USA is Sagittarian, opposite an equally strong Gemini) superpower. And in the 11th house, a popular standing in the room of 200 other nations plus the Vatican (maybe 205 total nations including Taiwan, Palestine and Western Sahara). We were destined to surpass the ancient Greek, Roman, Spanish, British and Soviet empires as the strongest nation in world history alright.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Tim, are you confusing or conflating individual nativities with mundane charts???

They have some similarities but also some striking differences. I have actually never heard of a "maturity" or "self" side of a natal chart, let alone for mundane astrology.

But given your interpretation as-is, why would your chart explain these attributes uniquely for the United States? All countries put their own interests first, declining cooperation that seems disadvantageous, short of some kind of economic or military threat from a more powerful country. Can you name other countries that didn't put their own interests first unless they were dominated by a colonial power, threatened with economic sanctions, or courting invasion from a powerful neighbour if they acted up?

The US is a signatory of many bi-lateral and multi-lateral treaties, trade agreements, and mutual defense organizations. Cooperation and coalition-building is sometimes the way to further mutual as well as American goals.

The US is not an isolationist country, although it has briefly retreated somewhat in that direction at various times. President Biden announced to world leaders that "The US is back!"

I think what you're doing is trying to give the US a kind of personality as though it were a person, that isn't entirely accurate with respect to historical events and current international politics and economics.
 
Last edited:

waybread

Well-known member
Tim, I think you're still got a problem with using a chart for the "birth" of the US that is more specifically a chart for the surrender of the British army at Yorktown.

With all the great things you see for the US in your chart, it should also show the British defeat as an important event in its own right, shouldn't it? How would you interpret the chart from a British perspective?
 

Opal

Premium Member
Pluto in the House of Money suggests a continual need for using other people's money as the US's own money, suggesting continually higher level of taxation. Pluto is in Aquarius so this money is tied into the goal of Social Security, underlining the strong focus in the House of Social Security.


Hi Tim,

Regarding the above, I am under the impression that the 2nd house is about “monies made by the chart drawn” and that the 8th represents “other people’s monies.”

Pluto also represents hidden things. In this house, I would have it as hidden, or unseen monies.

Mars, stock exchange and panics, banking upheaval and waste of public monies.

I am using a book called Mundane Astrology with three books. One each by H S Green, Raphael and C E O Carter.
 
Last edited:

wilsontc

Staff member
Opal,

In this context the 2nd house is the monies of the US. 8th house would be monies of other countries.

Following up,

Tim
 

wilsontc

Staff member
Tim, how to interpret the extremely tight Moon/Jupiter conjunction in 29+ degrees Scorpio in H11?

David,

Moon in a "fate degree" to me indicates the strong nationalism of the US. Pride in the US no matter where US people go is so well-known that it often is a source of irritation for people of non-US countries. Jupiter simply expands that natural "home" focus.

Following up,

Tim
 

wilsontc

Staff member
Tim, I think you're still got a problem with using a chart for the "birth" of the US that is more specifically a chart for the surrender of the British army at Yorktown. How would you interpret the chart from a British perspective?

waybread,

The surrender of one side in a war is the victory of the other side. The British didn't surrender simply because they decided to give up the US: the British surrendered because the US colonials fought and WON the war for independence. At THAT time the US was truly separate from England and became its own country. If we were looking at the transits for England we would use the British loss at Yorktown as a major transit. However here we are looking for the source of the birth of the US as its own country, not simply as a HOPE to be independent from Britain but as actually BEING independent from Britain, so using the British definitive loss at Yorktown makes sense.

In the same way when looking at the chart of a company, we look at the day the company was incorporated and not simply at the day someone thought about possibly creating a company. So when looking at the chart of a nation we look at the day the nation became a nation, not when people simply HOPED it would be a nation.

Following up,

Tim
 

Opal

Premium Member
The conjunction between Mars and Pluto gifts drive and determination, in the 2nd house the drive would be for monetary gain. Aquarius would gift different and varied ways of making money.

Tim, I am starting to really like this chart for the US. I haven’t been looking to events yet. Just getting a feel for the flavour.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Tim, as I've pointed out recently, Britain's military defeat did not mean that they relinquished their territorial claim to their 13 colonies. That didn't happen until the Treaty of Paris in 1783. The treaty was what officially severed the US and Britain.

These are the precise Articles of Capitulation of the British army signed by Cornwallis:https://www.mountvernon.org/education/primary-sources-2/article/articles-of-capitulation-yorktown/

Please note that nothing in them says that Britain thereby granted US sovereignty.


How the British saw their 13 colonies is complicated. Politically, relinquishment of their colonies was not the task of a defeated general, but of the British government. At that time, these were Parliament, the Prime Minister, and King George III.

On the American side, Benjamin Franklin and John Adams are the best known American diplomats who represented the US during the treaty negotiations. These further involved European powers who sent troops and ships into battle, notably the French for the Americans.

Note that hostilities between the US and Britain recommenced with the War of 1812.

My other point being, as analyzed above, that the Cornwallis Yorktown chart is not a very auspicious one for the United States going forward.

It just reads better as a chart for the British military defeat IMO.

waybread,

The surrender of one side in a war is the victory of the other side. The British didn't surrender simply because they decided to give up the US: the British surrendered because the US colonials fought and WON the war for independence. At THAT time the US was truly separate from England and became its own country. If we were looking at the transits for England we would use the British loss at Yorktown as a major transit. However here we are looking for the source of the birth of the US as its own country, not simply as a HOPE to be independent from Britain but as actually BEING independent from Britain, so using the British definitive loss at Yorktown makes sense.

In the same way when looking at the chart of a company, we look at the day the company was incorporated and not simply at the day someone thought about possibly creating a company. So when looking at the chart of a nation we look at the day the nation became a nation, not when people simply HOPED it would be a nation.

Following up,

Tim
 
Last edited:

david starling

Well-known member
The Cornwallis chart has a Neptune Return right at the beginning of a new cycle in American history. I find that very convincing.

The Judgement at Nuremberg, establishment of the U.N., the Civil Rights Movement, sexual liberation, and a real change in clothing, music, and lifestyle choices are all in keeping with transiting Neptune conjunct the Cornwallis chart Neptune in Libra. [IMO]
 

blackbery

Well-known member
You are repeating exactly what TimW posted.:sideways:

To expand it further:

The 8th House:
The 8th house rules the death rate, the types of people who die, how the nation treats death, and financial relations with foreign countries. It can also indicate how much debt a country or corporation is in as well as loans, interest, and taxes.

The 8th house can also be relevant the people are feeling oppressed or there is some sort of power struggle.




The 2nd House:
The 2nd house rules the wealth of a nation, the economy, currency, revenue, banks, the Stock Exchange, financial institutions, money market, and trade

It also rules the possessions or property of people as a whole. Anything material is ruled by the 2nd house.




https://teaandrosemary.com/mundane-astrology/




In mundane astrology, the 2nd house represents the nation's wealth and financial institutions. The 8th house represents "Public mortality, death-rate, the kinds of people who die. Death duties. Financial relations with foreign countries."

https://www.skyscript.co.uk/ingresses.html
 
Top