Thread: Apotelesmatika
View Single Post
  #14  
Unread 12-24-2019, 02:45 PM
petosiris's Avatar
petosiris petosiris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,338
Re: Apotelesmatika

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Aries, Leo and Sagittarius by day give Sun 7.5, Venus 7.5, Saturn 7.5 and Mars 7.5
Taurus, Virgo and Capricorn by day give Venus 7.5, Saturn 7.5, Mars 7.5 and Sun 7.5
Gemini, Libra and Aquarius by day give Saturn 7.5, Mars 7.5, Sun 7.5 and Venus 7.5
Cancer, Scorpio and Pisces by day give Mars 7.5, Sun 7.5, Venus 7.5 and Saturn 7.5

Aries, Leo and Sagittarius by night give Jupiter 7.5, Moon 7.5, Mercury 7.5 and Mars 7.5
Taurus, Virgo and Capricorn by night give Moon 7.5, Mercury 7.5, Mars 7.5 and Jupiter 7.5
Gemini, Libra and Aquarius by night give Mercury 7.5, Mars 7.5, Jupiter 7.5 and Moon 7.5
Cancer, Scorpio and Pisces by night give Mars 7.5, Jupiter 7.5, Moon 7.5 and Mercury 7.5

And because the beginning of the place obviously does not have the exact same temperament as the end of the place, the old astrologers have invented various divisional systems to explain for such differences, such as the Egyptian terms, the Chaldean terms, the Ptolemaic terms, the decans according to the heptazone, the dodekatemoria, the monomoiria by trigon, the monomoiria according to the heptazone, the monomoiria according to the Chaldean terms and many more similar fanciful systems that are built around contrived orders of symmetry, but with completely unfounded arguments in nature.

This natural division, however, is based on the four winds and the four elements, can be felt in the air, and explains for all differences within the places. Because the winds often experience increase of power through predomination, or stillness through predomination of the contrary wind, or admixture through predomination of neighbouring winds, the places are divided into four equal bounds of 7.5 - so that the first bound is the wind blowing with twice the power, the second bound is the wind receiving an admixture from the wind of the following angle, the third bound is the wind receiving an admixture of the wind from the opposite angle that produces stillness, and the fourth bound is the wind receiving an admixture from the wind of the preceding angle. One can observe this change from the powers of the planets.
Quote:
The Chaldaean method involves a sequence, simple, to be sure, and more plausible, though not so self-sufficient with respect to the government of the triangles and the disposition of quantity, so that, nevertheless, one could easily understand them even without a diagram. For in the first triplicity, Aries, Leo, and Sagittarius, which has with them the same division by signs as with the Egyptians, the lord of the triplicity, Jupiter, is the first to receive terms, then the lord of the next triangle, Venus, next the lord of the triangle of Gemini, Saturn, and Mercury, and finally the lord of the remaining triplicity, Mars. In the second triplicity, Taurus, Virgo, and Capricorn, which again has the same division by signs, Venus is first, then Saturn, and again Mercury, after these Mars, and finally Jupiter. this arrangement in general is observed also in the remaining two triplicities. Of the two lords of the same triplicity, however, Saturn and Mercury, by day Saturn takes the first place in the order of ownership, by night Mercury. The number assigned to each is also a simple matter. For in order that the number of terms of each planet may be less by one degree than the preceding, to correspond with the descending order in which first place is assigned, they always assign 8 to the first, 7 to the second, 6 to the third, 5 to the fourth, and 4 to the last; thus the 30 of a sign is made up. The sum of the number of degrees thus assigned to Saturn is 78 by day and 66 by night, to Jupiter 72, to Mars 69, to Venus 75, to Mercury 66 by day and 78 by night; the total is 360 degrees. - http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...os/1B*.html#21
Quote:
9K;6P. Winds and Turns.
The arrangement some have made of the terms using the seven-zone system, i.e. 8, 7, 6, 5, 4 (and they are not in agreement even as to that) does not seem correct to me. I prefer the arrangement derived from houses, exaltations, and triangles, to wit:

Leo is the house of the sun, Aries is its exaltation, Sagittarius is the <other member if its> triangle. The total is 3, and so in each sign the sun has 3 terms.
Cancer is the house of the moon, Taurus is its exaltation, Virgo and Capricorn are the <other members if its> triangle. The total is 4, and so in the same way the moon has 4 terms in each sign.
Capricorn and Aquarius are houses of Saturn, Libra is its exaltation, Gemini is the <other member if its> triangle. The total is 4, and so Saturn has 4 terms in each sign.
Sagittarius and Pisces are houses of Jupiter, Cancer is its exaltation, Aries and Leo are the <other members if its> triangle. So Jupiter has 5 terms in each sign.
Aries and Scorpio are houses of Mars, Capricorn is its exaltation, Pisces and Cancer are the <other members if its> triangle. So Mars has 5 terms in each sign.
Taurus and Libra are houses of Venus, Pisces is its exaltation, Virgo and Capricorn are the <other members if its> triangle. So Venus has 5 terms in each sign.
Gemini is a house of Mercury, Virgo is its exaltation, Aquarius and Libra are the <other members if its> triangle. The total is 4, so its terms in each sign will be 4.

<The Order of the Terms.>
Aries Leo Sagittarius
by day: sun-3, Jupiter-5, Venus-5, moon-4, Saturn-4, Mercury-4, Mars-5. Total 30
by night: Jupiter-5, sun-3, moon-4, Venus-5, Mercury-4, Saturn-4, Mars-5. Total 30.

Taurus Virgo Capricorn
by day: Venus moon Saturn Mercury Mars sun Jupiter
by night: moon Venus Mercury Saturn Mars Jupiter sun

Gemini Libra Aquarius
by day: Saturn Mercury Mars sun Jupiter Venus moon
by night: Mercury Saturn Mars Jupiter sun moon Venus

Cancer Scorpio Pisces
by day: Mars sun Jupiter Venus moon Saturn Mercury
by night: Mars Jupiter sun moon Venus Mercury Saturn

So that you will see the accuracy of this arrangement of terms—you can also recognize it in the nature of the winds. If the sun is transiting its own terms, with the moon or the ruler of the moon’s terms in aspect, the physical nature of the star will manifest itself in the wind. For instance: if the sun traverses its own terms with the moon in aspect, it will blow westerly. If Venus traverses its own terms, it will blow southerly and dry. If Saturn, it will blow westerly and bring moisture. If Jupiter, it will be northerly and wet. If the moon, it will be northeasterly. If Venus, southeasterly and there will be shifting winds and storm clouds. If Mercury, there will be westerly and northerly winds, shifting and bringing heavy rains, thunder, and lightning. If any of the stars are in aspect with the sun and the moon, it is necessary to watch closely—in addition to the nature of each luminary—which phase the moon is passing through, i.e. full or new, and in whose terms the phase is located. Then make your forecast with reference to the ruler of the terms and of the stars in those terms or in aspect. - https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt...s%20entire.pdf
These are two Hellenistic systems of terms based on the triplicities/winds. The first system called Chaldean by Ptolemy appears also in a fragment in the Anthology of Valens that is attributed to Hermes. Valens (or the person the scribe has copied), however, brings a natural argument against the system, that it ignores the luminaries, which are not ignored in the triplicities. (Valens here seems to use the triplicity rulers in Ptolemy with Mars as sole ruler of Cancer, Scorpio and Pisces, not the ''Dorothean'' three he uses elsewhere, the Chaldean terms are also based on these triplicities, which I favour myself). However, the disposition of quantity is not even in agreement with the winds in my opinion, because the Gemini Libra Aquarius wind takes two terms without natural explanation in the Chaldean terms, and the Cancer, Scorpio and Pisces takes one term in the terms given by Valens, again without natural explanation, but rather contrived symmetry of arranging the five stars or rulers. The reasons given by Valens for the disposition of seven terms by quantity are more numerological than natural. I prefer we use only the planets that have actual rulership by day or by night, leading us to 4 instead of 5, 6 (as in Critodemus) or 7 terms, and that we use simple equal disposition in accordance with the equal disposition of places.

The Egyptian terms defy tropical explanation.
The Critodemus terms are divisible by 5, which is probably the reason for the construction of the system.
The Ptolemaic terms are just another contrived order of symmetry following the numerological planetary years, which are suspicious by themselves.

Objection: The terms must be based on all three rulerships - houses, elevations and trigons, and not on just one of them.
Answer: The terms must be based only on the more changeable consideration of winds, and because our explanation of the winds is unrelated to the predominating heat and moisture of individual places, but rather to the combined heat and moisture of three places, for reasons we have elucidated earlier. The terms are in perfect trigons with each other just like the winds are carried by the trigon figure. This is also true for the two systems above.

Last edited by petosiris; 12-24-2019 at 07:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to petosiris For This Useful Post:
IleneK (01-09-2020), JUPITERASC (01-02-2020)