Synastry: the Impulsive Arian Moon and the Discerning Libran Saturn

Hi all I haven't been round these parts for a good while, but I tonight feel compelled to tell a little story about an impulsive Arian Moon and a discerning Libran Saturn. The Moon is my man's and the Saturn is my own: they face eachother off with precision at 18" each. At best this pair are impulsive and discerning, at worst, well, insensitive and/or judgemental, it's hard to tell who is right

Discerning Libran Saturn is concerned that:

Impulsive Aries moon is being insensitive to his ex-girlfriend, tending to act inconsistently (not returning her calls when Saturn is around) and making 'insensitive' remarks about how he might have stayed with her if she had (insert things she is now doing with her current boyfriend) with him. Moon thinks he is funny, Saturn tends to think he is being an ass, inappropriate and rude, and that he just can't seem to tell when he could be really bruising other's feelings.

Impulsive Arian Moon is concerned that:

Discerning Libran Saturn takes it all just a little too seriously, can't take a joke, verges a little too close to being politically correct, oversetimates how hurt other people might get by things, overemphasises what Arian Moon owes to other people in terms of reasonable behaviour, and censors things that are simply meant to be humourous expressions about complicated situations, can't see the raw humour to life and is too careful with other people, needs to let it go and just live.

So, it amuses me that I appear to feel more concern for the feelings of my partner's ex-girlfriend than he appears to feel (although he might be right - maybe she has the same sense of humour as him!). I think this is an excellent illustration of Libra/Aries synastry. I think you'd find this type of dynamic with other planets opposing Aries/Libra (although Saturn is strong and quite the 'censor' in Libra).

I lose track of the number of things my partner says in social situations that he thinks are funny, and I think cross the line into the land of fully inappropriate. People often laugh, and he thinks it's in appreciation of what he is saying, and I think it is in incredularity at what he is saying. We're probably both right, to a degree

Anyone else have a Libran/Aries synastry story to share? I find that other people's real examples of how synastry works are the best illustrators, real people's relationships bring it to life....

Oh, this is a wonderful idea for a thread, Howl! It's so great to have you back on the forums

My Aries-Libra polarity story also involves a tight opposition, this time between the same planet--my natal Mercury at exactly 16 Aries 30'28" and my mother's natal retrograde Mercury at approximately 16 Libra 39'4". Unfortunately, I do not know her exact time of birth because it is not printed on her birth certificate, but she's pretty sure that she was born sometime in the morning before noon. Although Mercury is a fast-moving planet, it's fortunately not as fast as the Moon, so I'm confident that our synastry oppositions have an orb of at least one degree, if not less.

My Aries Mercury, which is in mutual reception with my chart ruler Mars in Gemini, generally attempts to do too much at once and soon tires of whatever task I may applying my energies towards to move onto another. It is particularly guilty of such impulsive behavior when I am attacking--or rather, cleaning--my closet or my room; I pull everything out of my closet and onto the floor or on my bed, so that I can simultaneously sort through summer/fall clothes and put each in either storage or back into my closet, organizing as I go along. My Aries stellium is a whirlwind of activity until it becomes bored and abandons this venture for a more exciting one, leaving a huge mess in its wake to deal with later.

As you can imagine, this drives my Libran mother insane. "Take out one piece at a time!" her Libra stellium, particularly her retrograde Mercury in Libra, urges, but by this time it is too late, and my Aries stellium generally ignores her

I believe this is a good example of two different ways of approaching the same problem, ultimately yielding the same result. Whether one method is more efficient than the other is irrelevant, in my frank Arian opinion, as long as the work eventually gets done. Besides, when I am truly motivate, I can clean large areas very quickly, often performing several tasks simultaneously and happily hopping from one area to the next.

I only wish I applied these Aries traits to my course work as well, which takes me an incredible amount of time and energy to complete...

Arian Maverick

Hi Arian I thought this thread might attract you

Whether one method is more efficient than the other is irrelevant, in my frank Arian opinion, as long as the work eventually gets done.

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Perhaps it's less about efficiency, and more about how 'unacceptably disastrous' your room looks while your mother is waiting for your method to kick back in

I've since decided that the story I related below is also a function of the other opposition we have in synastry - opposing Ascendants. He has Capricorn rising 13" (and thinks sharp, irreverent realism is funny) and I have Cancer rising 11" (and think there is only room for sharp irreverent realism if you are first certain that your words aren't cutting deeply into someone).

Perhaps it's less about efficiency, and more about how 'unacceptably disastrous' your room looks while your mother is waiting for your method to kick back in

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Yes, that too

But I've tried it her way before, and I'm never as satisfied with the results--yes, my room looks less messy, but the clothes in my closet are hung up randomly. I'd almost rather have an organized closet and a messy room than a clean room and a messy closet, but I guess I'm just weird that way...

What makes this opposition even funnier is that my brother's natal Mercury is almost exactly conjunct my own, which means that it also forms a tight opposition to my mother's Mercury. His situation is a lot different from mine, as is his astrological chart, but I find this amusing nevertheless.

Now, do we have any other examples of the Aries-Libra polarity? Or should I provide yet another example of contrast between my mother's large Libra stellium and my own decent-sized Aries stellium?

Arian Maverick

Arian M & Howl..

OK then.. what is this SELF & OTHER ..

I was just wondering have you both looked at the meaning of the relevant Sabian Symbols(Dane Rudyers book).. for extra insight.. planets directly involved.. as well as for Sun/Moon.. who am I.. & who is this other...

I do have *Aries Rising though.. therefore *Libra Desc.. so from a very young age I was happy playing on my own for hours.. little war games & with soldiers & such.. of course.. *Mars in Virgo(conj Pluto/Uranus).. then comes Libra.. 'the others'.. *Venus in Gemini.. how do I relate since I am so obsorbed in my inner world.. well at school I used humour to distract the bully types.. but eventually I had to come back to 'my-Self'.. at some piont.. though it took a Uranus transit during my Saturn return to start the process.. instead of trying to distract & please others.. Yes swinging to the opposite polarity to learn.. about Self through others...

My Sabian Symbol for my Ascendant is *30degAri.. A DUCK POND & IT'S BROOD.. 'The realisation of natural boundaries'.. the real question being.. knowing where 'my' boundaries are.. ie. learning what's right for 'Me'.. not some societal set standard of behaviour etc... as for my Libra Dsc.. *30degLib.. THREE MOUNDS OF KNOWLEDGE ON A PHILOSOPHERS HEAD.. 'The fullfilment of man's power of understanding at whatever level of existence the person operates'.. ' A HOLISTIC APPROACH TO KNOWLEDGE'...

I guess I'm still struggling with finding balance.. athough I am much better in knowing where my boundaries are after getting to know myself more intimately over the last decade or so.. by being single for quite a few years.. though I have a flatmate.. who is not here often which suits me.. Also this 'balance' is such a shifting reality from moment to moment too.. with 'relationships' coming from many different things.. like films.. books.. music.. art etc etc.. so it's not just about other people...

Yes I need to have time to myself often to think.. explore & imagine.. delving my inner world.. but then sooner or later I need to share some of this with the world.. at least others who are prepared to listen... Sometimes that's not always possible.. then comes the question.. who are our 'true' friends.. the 'art' of discrimination & discernment...

I also just read a newsletter from an *Evolutionary Astrology(www.evolutionaryastrology.net) newsletter..

Mercury is the most active planet this month and begins another retrograde cycle in Scorpio-Libra. Expect increased activity in relationships and the need for extra communications through some type of power struggles. We will search for ways to balance all our relationships and still find time for our selves. The Evolutionary Astrology mantra for Libra is: I balance a diversity of relationships with my own initiative. Do not assume Libra means balance is already accomplished; rather, that is the lesson to learn.

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October 10/11 - The New Moon of Libra is October 10/11 at 17/18 degrees. This is an annual time to set intent for new beginnings in all our relationships. Libra teaches us about the diversity of people and relationships on the planet. Through comparison and contrast we learn who we are and who we are not. Libra is really more like the dating game, with relationship choice and commitment (and the sex!) coming from Scorpio.

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This is why Libra actually needs freedom, a lesson from its polarity Aries. We must experience the variety in order to know what is best for us. Through its ruler Venus, Libra learns the value of, and desire for, relationships. Libra, so aware of others, can get caught up in a need to be needed or completed through a relationship. While we always evolve through relationships (two genders in our species), we can do this through co-dependency or self-reliance. Co-dependency comes with inequalities of giving and receiving. Self-reliance creates better balance along the giving/receiving spectrum.

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I have also started up a blog at www.whatsitallmeanthen.blogspot.com.. where I have tried to get some of my-Self out of me.. through words & pictures..

So here I am a pizza delivery driver.. who loves listening to ABC Classic Fm.. finding delight in learning about art culture & history.. & writing about my life experiences.. on the shifting sands of my thoughts & feelings...


OK that'll do..

Cheers then..

Oh! I have such stories of the Aries/Libra polarity at work!

I have a stellium in Aries, including my sun. My first experiences of this energy play were with my mother, who has a nice stellium in Libra involving the same planets as mine (and we have a nice set of matching Leo moons).

This opposite way of experiencing the world played out in my childhood and adolescence in my impatience and constant need for action (c'mon mom, if you don't like the situation then DO something about it) vs. her need to review each possible action and it's consequences, weigh them up, and ponder them indefinitely. It was (and is) classic! Looking back, I laugh... because with hindsight, I can see the energies playing themselves out in our natural (and way outta sync) rhythms. Not only have I learned to be more patient and tolerant because of her, but also to pause and take an objective look at a situation (if only for a little bit) before "leaping." As a reward, I have finally gained her admiration for my strength and decisiveness as I have matured.

My worst experiences with this were the times (and nearly every argument we ever had contained this phrase) she would say "well, so-and-so says...," to which I would respond, "I don't care what so-and-so says, what do you have to say?" My ex has a Libra mother as well- and we have been quite entertained by comparing our similar experiences!

Which brings me to another Aries/Libra love-play - that of myself and my daughter's father... whose Venus in Libra opposed by 3* my Venus and by 1.5* my Mercury in Aries. While there was some undeniable attraction due to other factors in our synastry, this was one that didn't play out so well between us, and echoed my mother's biggest complaint about me, too... I communicate directly, openly, and honestly, and I don't tend to 'beat around the bush' about anything (and I hate it when others do this). His tendency was to dance around anything even vaguely unpleasant, and getting the nitty-gritty truth out of him was exhausting. He experienced this in the opposite way (of course) - he adored my "flowery" writing (when I was moved enough to write) and hated my directness when it came time to really communicate. We verbally travelled in endless circles becuase he admittedly liked to tell people (including me) what he thought they wanted to hear just make 'em feel good- and I prefer to get right to the point and be honest with it, so-help-me-god!

Haha! The oppositions are such learning experiences!

How exciting, more polarity posts

Morghana, I oddly have many of the same dynamics in my relationship with my mother, although we have no Libra - Aries polarity I know of. She tended to defer a lot of authority, and delay a lot of action, disliking a situation but waiting to see what others would do or say about it - drove me nuts (there is a lot of fire in my chart). I am not sure what synastry this would relate to, as I don't have her accurate birthtime, but the only Aries I have is my MC (maybe she has a Libran Ascendant!).

I love the story of having learned to integrate some of your mother's qualities to a degree, and receiving in return her admiration for those qualities that originally seemed to cause conflict. I have experienced similar with my dad, it's a wonderful thing to happen

Regarding your love play - I hope that Libra lover left you with some positive experiences... Libra can be about finding common ground between and sharing people's truths, rather than inventing some 'ideal' un-truth and spoon feeding it to people to make them feel good I promise it ain't all that way!

Yes, I'm very excited about the additional posts as well, especially because Solastro has an Ascendant at the end of the sign; I'm possibly in the same situation but with my Ascendant at the end of Pisces, so I want to ask how he/she experiences the characteristics of the Ascendant sign while having many if not all of the degrees of the following sign encompassed in the first house. Perhaps this isn't the thread for this, but I don't believe it wanders too far away from the topic of the Aries/Libra polarity, particularly because the Ascendant/Descendant are always opposite each other.

I'm also excited about Morghana Stellara's post because I too have an Aries stellium including my Sun, Mercury, and Venus in Aries as a fire moon, in Aries instead of Leo; my mother has a significant Libra stellium, but most of the planets are not in direct opposition to my own.

This comment in particular sparked my interest because I have been perplexed by my decidedly non-Arian writing ability for a while:

He experienced this in the opposite way (of course) - he adored my "flowery" writing (when I was moved enough to write) and hated my directness when it came time to really communicate.

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What planetary influences do you believe influence your "flowery" writing style? Although most of my posts on the forums are generally to-the-point, "flowery" is exactly the word I would use to describe my journal entries and even essays for school; my writing is very stream-of-consciousness, often abstract (possibly Pisces Ascendant influence), yet at the same I am very deliberate about my choice of words and how I present them in a sentence, almost to the point of obsession (Virgo South Node). I tend to have much difficulty staying on topic, and I often joke that while writing, I can find a thousand and one ways to get from point A to point B, and a lot of these transitions seem illogical to every other mind but my own. I generally favor longer sentences, using a lot of words to express even a simple idea (Mars in Gemini disposits my Aries stellium). Writing is so much more than a means of communication for me; it is an art form, one which I cherish, although I often become frustrated with my own inability to properly express an idea floating in the ethers and shape it into some tangible form.

The characteristics I described above don't seem to represent Mercury in Aries in its purest form, yet perhaps I am mistaken in this belief. I almost created a thread about the natal chart of Charles Baudelaire, the famous French poet who wrote Les Fleurs du Mal, yet I notice with more careful observation that his natal Mercury was in the sign of Pisces, although he possessed a significant Aries stellium that most astrologers have put in the eighth house, due to the erotic nature of many of his poems. I suppose Mercury in Pisces explains how his writing could conjure such vivid imagery with such beautiful language, but it always seemed strange to me that a man who made much of his living through writing would have an Aries stellium. This has given me hope, however, that perhaps this sign is not as incapable of beautiful writing as I once thought, yet Baudelaire also had a sensitive Cancer Moon.

See how easily I get off-topic?

Perhaps I should create another thread to continue this idea...

Arian Maverick

Writing is so much more than a means of communication for me; it is an art form, one which I cherish,

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I'll second that!

What planetary influences do you believe influence your "flowery" writing style?

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A few... I would hazard a guess that my Gemini MC conj Jupiter plays a role in my love of expression via language in general (writing plays a significant role in my career too)... but my true-to-self, cathartic, artistic writing (that of my journal, essays, and songs) probably can be attributed to my Sun trine Neptune, and Mars in Pisces on my descendant... and my third house ruler, Pluto, is in Libra opposing Mercury. There are my best guesses!

Arian M..

I can really relate to your wanderings .. in getting from A to B in so many different ways.. exploring the hidden little avenues & laneways.. well after all Aries is supposed to wander about.. to act from instinct.. not just the mind.. which is more Libra...

I also think those Sabian symbols are rather relveant for this discussion of this Aries/Libra polarity.. partcilualry since they fall at the end of the signs.. so in effect it is like the 'climax' or peak of that sign.. So I think they deserve serious thought or meditation in our search the balance between Self & Other..

*30degAri.. A DUCK POND & IT'S BROOD.. 'The realisation of natural boundaries'.. the real question being.. knowing where 'my' boundaries are.. ie. learning what's right for 'Me'.. not some societal set standard of behaviour etc... as for my Libra Dsc.. *30degLib.. THREE MOUNDS OF KNOWLEDGE ON A PHILOSOPHERS HEAD.. 'The fullfilment of man's power of understanding at whatever level of existence the person operates'.. ' A HOLISTIC APPROACH TO KNOWLEDGE'...

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Also for the late degrees.. it seems to me that it's something like a dark moon phase.. also a letting go of something.. or last chance to get it right kind of feeling.. yes also Aries/Libra does relate to the Asc/Dsc axis.. no matter what sign.. it's still Self meeting Other..

Also this reminds me our the idea of our first relationships(Aries/Libra) with our mother(Cancer).. then with our father(Capricorn).. then siblings.. yes how did it all go? This of course sets 'the stage' for our whole life.. Self meeting Other.. yes this leads into synastry of course..

I also just bought a very interesting book called *'Entering the Castle'.. by Carolyn Myss.. this of course relates back to the whole idea of Aries/Libra.. the idea of knowing who we are.. finding 'a safe inner place'.. althouigh perhaps more related to protection(my prog Cancer Sun- sqaure Aries/Lib)then being able to meet & relate to others in our world.. with discernment/Libra.. SATURN always wants to set the limits.. wherever it is..

"Entering THE CASTLE is many things: a guide to the life & times of St Teresa of Avila, the extraordinary sixteenth century saint & contemplative master; a guide to her meditation text, The Interior Castle ; & a guide to your Soul."

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This reminds me of a course I did on the Asc.. Sun & Moon.. where we enter the castle so to speak.. is where our *ascendant is.. 'the guard' at 'the drawbridge'.. or 'ring pass not' to the inner Self.. *the Sun is 'the King'.. while of course *the Moon is 'the Queen' or our emotional Self..

Also I meet others with my *Mars in Virgo(conj Uranus/Pluto)5th.. so perhaps I can be a little overwhelming to some.. ie. psychologically aware.. penetrating.. & with my *Venus in Gemini(conj Jupiter/Nth Node)2nd.. where I open wide the whole spectrum of the Universe to all sorts of ideas.. So this all relates back to my Aries Asc & Libra Dsc.. in this analysis & understanding of this 'I/Thou'..

Then there is also the relationship with 'the Divine'.. or 'the Soul'.. another Libran aspect.. finding peace within.. by taking a solitary journey(Aries) regardless of whether we are bound with another.. I think this is a very important piece of the puzzle that is missing today in an overly rationalistic world.. ie. denial of the divine.. or anything mystical.. So our relationships with ourselves are incomplete.. in an inner sense.. therefore heedless actions result.. so we have unwittingly outsmarted ourselves..

As for synastry.. I am very attracted to a younger woman I work with.. who's *Aries Sun sits in my 12th house.. I having little fire.. except by progression.. am attracted to her 'Arianess'.. also with an implusive *Mercury in Aries.. also same sign as my Asc.. but do I see her clearly(12th)?

I currently have *prog Mars in Libra(5th).. & *Solar Arc Saturn in Aries(12th)..

Yes indeed HOWL.. perhaps our greatest sorrow is to feel misunderstood .. or to feel we are inadequate..

OK then that'll do ..

With a childlike curiosity for 'all of life' in all it's many varied forms.. it's great mystery.. & in the constant exploration of my thoughts & feelings in response to my experience of being here...

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OK then.. back to Aries/Libra.. the I/Thou relationship.. As for the late degrees of a sign.. it seems to me that it's something lke a dark moon phase.. letting go of something.. or last chance to get it right kind of feeling..

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My natal Moon is in its balsamic (dark moon) phase, conjunct my Ascendant, which is possibly the last degree of Pisces.

I have to mentally digest all of this information...

Arian Maverick